Active and Passive Male Characters

[Kelliezgirl]

Many women are socialised into the idea that male egos need to be handled with care. Most men might be able to take a rejection with good grace, but unfortunately they don't come with signs on to distinguish from the ones who might react...badly*. So women will often look for gentle, non-ego-threatening ways to let a guy down: "sorry but I have a boyfriend", "I don't date friends", and other white lies that feel less confrontational than "sorry but I don't find you attractive". As somebody who mostly dates women, I find those conciliatory lies exasperating, but I understand where they're coming from.

There's also the problem that some people will fake an interest in friendship merely as a way to get their foot in the door for a relationship, which is obviously a shitty thing to do. Those people get really mad when they're told "I only think of you as a friend", which says a lot about how much they value friendship.

I must disagree with characterizing a gentle rejection as necessary for the male ego.
Women are socialized to always say no to social engagements they aren't interested in politely regardless of who is asking or what the event.

"Kelliezgirl, we're having a barbecue on Friday, would you like to join us."
"Oh, Bramble, I'd love to, unfortunately I can't make it because...(insert pleasant lie here)."

What complicates the "gentle no" is that women are also taught they should play "hard to get."

Or this kind of nonsense:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rules

 

[MillieDynamite]

Polite Society, so many fucking rules!

I must disagree with characterizing a gentle rejection as necessary for the male ego.
Women are socialized to always say no to social engagements they aren't interested in politely regardless of who is asking or what the event.

"Kelliezgirl, we're having a barbecue on Friday, would you like to join us."
"Oh, Bramble, I'd love to, unfortunately I can't make it because...(insert pleasant lie here)."

What complicates the "gentle no" is that women are also taught they should play "hard to get."

Or this kind of nonsense:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rules

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Polite Society, so many fucking rules!

Well, it's probably better than getting clubbed over the head and dragged back to a cave.

Not that that couldn't be fun once in a while...
Well... now I'm off to look at Halloween costumes...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Don't give me that My Little Pony shit, it's too early in the morning...

The world would be a better place if more young lads watched MLP instead of Andrew Tate or whatever the latest nonsense is.

It sounds noble, but, ask yourself, would you really want to spend every Friday night down the pub in a social group consisting of every girl who has ever rejected you, either implicitly or explicitly?

Pubs aren't really my scene, but...

Back in my youth I developed an immense crush on a lady I knew and went along to a hobby group she was involved in. The crush went nowhere, then I pivoted to another lady in the same group and got turned down, and then another. Eventually I did find a girlfriend in that group, but it fell apart after a couple of months.

I was fucking miserable. I was undiagnosed autistic, low in social skills, low in self-esteem; looking back at old photos of myself, I was actually pretty hot, but I didn't know it and wouldn't have believed anybody who tried to tell me. I was more or less convinced that I was doomed to a lifetime of involuntary celibacy. I tried counselling but that didn't help much.

But I was still fine with going to that social group and hanging out with those women. Yes, the rejections hurt like hell, but they were still friends and still possessed of all the neat qualities that made me interested in their friendship in the first place, and leaving that group wouldn't have made the rejection side any easier to deal with.

One of them remained a good friend for several years after; we eventually drifted apart after I moved cities and started my doctorate, but I'd still be happy to say hi if I ran into her. Two of my best friends today are exes from more recent times.

I mean, imagine if they all brought the guys they did choose to date!

Most of them (I think maybe all?) did end up with partners from within that same group, and I was fine with hanging around with those partners. Given that they'd already chosen not to date me, why would it matter to me that they'd found somebody else?

I know some people do get mad about this kind of stuff, but it's not actually mandatory. If I like somebody, and they find somebody who makes them happy, I'm going to be happy for them.

"The good thing about dating a nerd is that you always know where they are...at home, dreading their next social interaction."

Norbert has already given up his WarHammer 4K night to go clog dancing and he's not doing it because he enjoys it!

Well, that's silly of him. He doesn't need to go nearly so far afield to meet women; granted, miniatures wargaming does skew heavily male, but if he were to show up at a games con or in a generalised gaming store with a play space, or look for roleplaying/gaming groups in his city that have an online presence, he'd find plenty of women around.

(I'd mutter something about why games like 40K have so few women, but that's something beyond the power of one Norbert to change.)

 

[TheRedChamber]

The world would be a better place if more young lads watched MLP instead of Andrew Tate or whatever the latest nonsense is.

Mostly I'm joking. As a Dad, I've watched my share of MLP.

Back in my youth I developed an immense crush on a lady I knew and went along to a hobby group she was involved in. The crush went nowhere, then I pivoted to another lady in the same group and got turned down, and then another. Eventually I did find a girlfriend in that group, but it fell apart after a couple of months.

I was fucking miserable. I was undiagnosed autistic, low in social skills, low in self-esteem; looking back at old photos of myself, I was actually pretty hot, but I didn't know it and wouldn't have believed anybody who tried to tell me. I was more or less convinced that I was doomed to a lifetime of involuntary celibacy. I tried counselling but that didn't help much.

But I was still fine with going to that social group and hanging out with those women. Yes, the rejections hurt like hell, but they were still friends and still possessed of all the neat qualities that made me interested in their friendship in the first place, and leaving that group wouldn't have made the rejection side any easier to deal with.

One of them remained a good friend for several years after; we eventually drifted apart after I moved cities and started my doctorate, but I'd still be happy to say hi if I ran into her. Two of my best friends today are exes from more recent times.

Okay, i get it. You are saintly. Annoyingly so. I'm not saying I don't want them to be happy, but they can be happy at, say, Christmas card length. Up close and personal is a bit much.

(But life being what it is, sometimes you need to grin and bear it. And of course, if you're in a relationship as well, that helps immensely)

Well, that's silly of him. He doesn't need to go nearly so far afield to meet women; granted, miniatures wargaming does skew heavily male, but if he were to show up at a games con or in a generalised gaming store with a play space, or look for roleplaying/gaming groups in his city that have an online presence, he'd find plenty of women around.

It may have changed since my day, but I doubt that...some maybe, but I'd be very surprised if it hit more than one in five.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Okay, i get it. You are saintly. Annoyingly so.

That seems a trifle rude and uncalled-for, particularly as a response to my discussing one of the bleaker periods of my life.

I don't believe I've made any professions to sainthood there; I just don't see the point in spiting oneself by withdrawing from things one enjoys or the company of interesting people because of a disappointment that isn't going to be fixed by that withdrawal.

I'm not saying I don't want them to be happy, but they can be happy at, say, Christmas card length. Up close and personal is a bit much.

You do you. I'm just saying that other options exist.

It may have changed since my day, but I doubt that...

How recent is "your day"? I was at a games market/roleplaying day four days ago, and there were plenty of women in attendance then. But let's not just depend on my impressions.

some maybe, but I'd be very surprised if it hit more than one in five.

There are plenty of surveys around attempting to measure gamer demographics but most of them are unreliable since they depend on self-selected samples etc. However, some gaming companies run large organised programs where players register, which allows for somewhat more trustworthy data.

https://www.geekwire.com/2023/dunge...he-coast-reveals-planescape-revival-and-more/

According to Wizards’ [of the Coast] internal studies of the [Dungeons and Dragons] player population, 60% of D&D players are male, 39% are female, and 1% identify otherwise

That's one particular game, of course, but it's a particular high-profile game and one that used to have a reputation (always somewhat exaggerated) as a male haven. Some would have a higher percentage of women (I'd guess a lot of LARPing, especially V:tM) and some much much lower (wargaming). This 2016 study from the Entertainment Software Association estimates that 41% of computer gamers are female; obviously not the same thing as board games, but maybe indicative.

We can quibble about the numbers and breakdowns, but the point is, there are options. If somebody in the year 2024 is gaming and not meeting a significant number of women, that says something about the games they're choosing to play and the people they're seeking out to play with.

 

[Britva415]

If somebody in the year 2024 is gaming and not meeting a significant number of women, that says something about the games they're choosing to play and the people they're seeking out to play with.

It seems to say they don't leave the basement. "Meeting people" doesn't automatically follow from "gaming" - which I guess is basically what you're saying.

 

[TheRedChamber]

That seems a trifle rude and uncalled-for, particularly as a response to my discussing one of the bleaker periods of my life.

I don't believe I've made any professions to sainthood there; I just don't see the point in spiting oneself by withdrawing from things one enjoys or the company of interesting people because of a disappointment that isn't going to be fixed by that withdrawal.

Okay, sorry. If not saintly, then certainly very zen. I do feel though that we're doing this dance where if I suggested that the England team should be disappointed for losing the Euro Final, you'd tell me they should take solace from how happy the win made the Spanish players. (No, I know dating isn't a competative sport...). If you are capable of sitting above your emotions and remaining magnanimous, that great (and what's more you'll be a man my son), unlike Norbert who is not only sexually frustrated but just plain frustrated. His favourite TV character may be Mr Spock, but he's not actually Mr Spock.

How recent is "your day"? I was at a games market/roleplaying day four days ago, and there were plenty of women in attendance then. But let's not just depend on my impressions.

Thankfully quite a good while ago.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday. I walked in to the coffee area at work and met a female colleague I haven't seen for a few months - tall, attractive, graceful, intelligent and charming. As I walked in, she was facing way from me and wearing a formal but figure-accentuating dress, and I thought 'damn, she's hot'. Five minutes later when she walked out of the area, I thought 'damn, she's hot' again. In the middle we had a five minute conversation about our summers and how our children were getting on at school.

This is the kind of boring, normal conversation, if I were still single and she were still single, that I would have found incredibly stressful. I'd either a) try to ask her out or at least try to 'advance the asking out cause' in some way and be depressed by any refusal or pushback b) not ask her out and be depressed by my lack of courage or c) decide that she was out of my league and be depressed that I'm not in a higher league.

As it is, having been married for more than a decade, I don't need to give a damn about whether she actually likes me or not, especially romantically. I think we are genuinely at least 'professional friends', we've worked together well for a number of years and I have gone out of my way to help her on a number of occassions. I'm happy to talk to her in the coffee room, I'd be happy if I ended up sitting next to her at a company event, but I'm not sure I'd actually like to socialize with her or be 'friend friends'. I'd rather stay home and play video games, because that's just me. Even though I'm happily married, I could also see an alternate timeline where I was happily married to her, but it's all good.

There are plenty of surveys around attempting to measure gamer demographics but most of them are unreliable since they depend on self-selected samples etc. However, some gaming companies run large organised programs where players register, which allows for somewhat more trustworthy data.

https://www.geekwire.com/2023/dunge...he-coast-reveals-planescape-revival-and-more/

That's one particular game, of course, but it's a particular high-profile game and one that used to have a reputation (always somewhat exaggerated) as a male haven. Some would have a higher percentage of women (I'd guess a lot of LARPing, especially V:tM) and some much much lower (wargaming). This 2016 study from the Entertainment Software Association estimates that 41% of computer gamers are female; obviously not the same thing as board games, but maybe indicative.

We can quibble about the numbers and breakdowns, but the point is, there are options. If somebody in the year 2024 is gaming and not meeting a significant number of women, that says something about the games they're choosing to play and the people they're seeking out to play with.

If things have changed in hobbies to make it easier for Norbert then good for Norbert. That said, things I read about dating for youngsters suggest if anything its harder these days. What I can tell you is that in high school in the 90s my groups major hobbies were video games (pre-online), Dungeons and Dragons, being in a 70s rock band and F1 racing (less my thing, but I got dragged in anyway and now love F1 video games if not the sport itself). None of these things attracted girls to any substantial degree, but as it was a mid-sized secondary school will a fixed population it probably didn't matter too much - 'sitting next to in class' and 'the walk home' were ways of socializing with girls. Later at university, it changed to table football, indie music and a whole bunch of 'will there be girls there?' activities and at a large university, you did have to hustle a bit to put yourself in the vicinity of the right kinds of girls. (We went clubbing a lot, but that never actually works for people like us)

But there ends up being a degree of blame and a catch-22 with these kinds of things. Were the secondary school groups welcoming of women? I think I can definitely say we were ravenously welcoming, but were we warmly welcoming? I was thinking to myself earlier that instead of playing Led Zepplin covers our terrible band could have chosen to play Fleetwood Mac covers and advertised for a Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie. Would that have been more welcoming, or would that be changing doing something we liked for something we liked ever so slightly less specifically for the purpose of 'acquiring new targets'? Similarly, my sister plays Elder Scrolls Online, so I know it's probably a good stomping ground for meeting girls, but I tried ESO and I didn't much care for it. I could probably grow to love it, but it end up as being essentially the same conversation as before regarding going ballroom dancing only on a smaller scale. And again, with WarHammer you're blaming Norbert for liking something that women don't like with the implication that because women don't like it there's something wrong with men liking it. (FWIW I've never played Warhammer, I chose it as a very male example and will admit that what I do know about it is very...yeah, it certainly has an aesthetic). You shouldn't be into X because girls like X but because X is the morally/socially correct thing to be into. (And we can tell that X is the morally/socially correct thing to be into because girls like it) Things end up being very 'be yourself, but not that version of yourself'. And after a few years when 'be yourself' clearly isn't working and Norbert wants to know how to improve his minute chances, it becomes 'dating doesn't have video game cheat codes'.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It seems to say they don't leave the basement. "Meeting people" doesn't automatically follow from "gaming" - which I guess is basically what you're saying.

If they're staying in a basement with an all-male group, that would fall under the "and the people they're seeking out to play with" part of my post.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Okay, sorry. If not saintly, then certainly very zen.

Not sure "fucking miserable" and "convinced I was doomed to a lifetime of involuntary celibacy" really counts as zen, unless there's some particularly angsty school of Zen that I haven't discovered? I got plenty miserable about the rejections; I just wasn't associating that misery with things that weren't the cause of the misery.

I do feel though that we're doing this dance where if I suggested that the England team should be disappointed for losing the Euro Final, you'd tell me they should take solace from how happy the win made the Spanish players. (No, I know dating isn't a competative sport...).

You are at liberty to make up scenarios about how I would have responded to a different question that I wasn't asked, but I'd prefer it if you didn't.

And again, with WarHammer you're blaming Norbert for liking something that women don't like with the implication that because women don't like it there's something wrong with men liking it. (FWIW I've never played Warhammer, I chose it as a very male example and will admit that what I do know about it is very...yeah, it certainly has an aesthetic).

No, that's not what I said. As it happens, I own two Warhammer 40K armies. Just don't ask me what percentage of the figures are painted...

But I also enjoy D&D, Pathfinder, Monsterhearts, V:tM, Thirsty Sword Lesbians, Goblin Quest, freeform, Dixit, Clank!, Ticket to Ride, and a lot of other "gaming" activities.

My point was not "people who play Warhammer are bad", but rather that if Norbert is only interested in hobbies that are as overwhelmingly male as Warhammer, to the point where any game where he'd be likely to meet women would fall under "feigning interest", then that suggests something problematic.

 

[TheRedChamber]

@Bramblethorn
Firstly, sorry I haven't fully been focusing on issues that you've had previously in your life. I think the way I look at it is this.

You've said two things about your pain at that time which stand out to me - 1. Major issues were low social skills and self-esteem. 2. You were actually pretty hot.
I think both low social skills and low self-esteem are kind of feedback loops. They are both the cause and effect of not being successful with girls. Rejections knocks you down and if you are never successful talking to people, you get better very slowly if at all. You don't really say how you fixed either of these issues, which is what would be useful to 'actually' help the hypothetical person I've set up here.

Definitely with the self-esteem what it seems to me that you're suggesting is that the fundamental issue lay within yourself. There's a sense from the post, which might be wrong, that your problems were largely internal rather than external (external here including what you looked like physically). You've also said that you were able to disassociate the rejection from the person rejecting you. This is kind of taking something external and making it an internal abstract thing. Still painful, but seperate from the real world.

Personally, I'm not able to do this. If a girl rejects me, I don't stop 'wanting' her. Certainly anyone I've ever seriously asked out is someone I had strong feelings for, almost always inappropriately strong feeling for. So, no, maintaining the same social circles was incredibly difficult. That you were suggests a certain seperation between the internal and external which I called zen - admittedly only with a pop understanding of zen. The point of the football team example is, as with the girl, the way to be unhappy about losing the world cup is not to want the world cup to begin with. I'm not suggesting you didn't want the girls you wanted, just you seem to be able to have dealt with it in a way which is alien to me.

With the hobbies we're now trying to ascertain if a hypothetical person actually has hypothetical groups with women in available to him. Again, I'll say that I'm out of touch. All I can say is that, when I was single, if there was one group which was all male and one functionally equivalent group that contained women, obviously I'd switch to the 'contains women' group without a second thought. Indeed, as I mentioned, I frequently switched to the 'not at all equivalent but contains women' groups often enough. It's always possible in a given set of concrete set of circumstances that they are available but men are not aware of it. I'd certainly love to know which groups I should have joined in university. It's possible I got it completely wrong.

It's not really relevant, but I remember a story told to my by one of my friends who studied Computing in a heavily male-dominated IT-college in London. One day his mate burst into the Common Room and announced "Fucking hell, lads...you know there's a Ballet School right across the street, yeah?"

 

[SimonDoom]

You shouldn't be into X because girls like X but because X is the morally/socially correct thing to be into. (And we can tell that X is the morally/socially correct thing to be into because girls like it) Things end up being very 'be yourself, but not that version of yourself'. And after a few years when 'be yourself' clearly isn't working and Norbert wants to know how to improve his minute chances, it becomes 'dating doesn't have video game cheat codes'.

My sense is that women are more attracted to a man who is (or at leasts projects as being) comfortably himself than than a man who seems to try to be what women want him to be. You don't want to just pick activities that women like, but you can intelligently and strategically choose from among the activities you like those that might maximize the chances of meeting women. It helps if you like a variety of activities, and especially if you like to get outside.

I like running, for instance, and running clubs present great opportunities for meeting and socializing with fit, youthful, mature women. That particular activity may not be right for everyone, but you have to be somewhat flexible and "light on your feet" to maximize your chances.

 

[Bramblethorn]

@Bramblethorn
Firstly, sorry I haven't fully been focusing on issues that you've had previously in your life. I think the way I look at it is this.

You've said two things about your pain at that time which stand out to me - 1. Major issues were low social skills and self-esteem. 2. You were actually pretty hot.
I think both low social skills and low self-esteem are kind of feedback loops. They are both the cause and effect of not being successful with girls. Rejections knocks you down and if you are never successful talking to people, you get better very slowly if at all. You don't really say how you fixed either of these issues, which is what would be useful to 'actually' help the hypothetical person I've set up here.

As best I recall, the big thing that helped with the self-esteem at that stage was coming to understand that I didn't need a relationship to validate me, that it was actually okay to be single.

If I may say this without inviting snarky comments about MLP: I noticed that while I might not have a lover, I had friends whose company I enjoyed, and also that I was capable of enjoying my own company. While still thinking that it would be nice to have a special somebody in my life, I allowed myself to take a break from focussing on that and just appreciate what I had for a while.

(This came after the stage where I played a lot of NIN in the dark and wallowed in angst, which was probably useful in getting me into the right space to chill out for a bit.)

Probably not coincidentally, shortly after I made my piece with being single, my love life improved by leaps and bounds.

For the social skills, having a network of friends obviously helped develop that, and also a ton of reading, resources like Captain Awkward.

The autism self/diagnosis was also immensely helpful, but that came a long time after, and by then I wasn't single or even double.

Definitely with the self-esteem what it seems to me that you're suggesting is that the fundamental issue lay within yourself. There's a sense from the post, which might be wrong, that your problems were largely internal rather than external (external here including what you looked like physically).

Bit o' both, really. There definitely was a big internal component, as discussed above. But there was also external stuff going on: family stuff that I'm not going to get into here, and the whole "being autistic in a society that has jack-all understanding of autism" bit. That has taken lot longer to deal with, and it's not a completed process.

With the hobbies we're now trying to ascertain if a hypothetical person actually has hypothetical groups with women in available to him. Again, I'll say that I'm out of touch. All I can say is that, when I was single, if there was one group which was all male and one functionally equivalent group that contained women, obviously I'd switch to the 'contains women' group without a second thought. Indeed, as I mentioned, I frequently switched to the 'not at all equivalent but contains women' groups often enough. It's always possible in a given set of concrete set of circumstances that they are available but men are not aware of it. I'd certainly love to know which groups I should have joined in university.

Probably drama society, from what I hear.

 

[Britva415]

If they're staying in a basement with an all-male group, that would fall under the "and the people they're seeking out to play with" part of my post.

What all-male group? I clearly meant they're alone down there.

 

[TheRedChamber]

My sense is that women are more attracted to a man who is (or at leasts projects as being) comfortably himself than than a man who seems to try to be what women want him to be.

I'm a great believer in 'be the best version of yourself that you can' as an overall philosophy of life.

I'm not sure about the idea that women like guys who are comfortably themselves though. It's nearly right. Women like guys who are comfortable in social situations, or comfortable in leadership, or comfortable with physical prowess. There are a lot of ways to be comfortable, but ultimately it has to be paired with something that is actually valued. Imagine, Becky drops round to Mrs Norbert's house and finds Norbert playing his games, listening to heavy metal surrounded by his action figures and empty bags of Cheetos and Mountain (yep, I'm bringing out every nerd stereotype here). Becky is not going to be thinking to herself even subconsciously, wow, Norbert is so comfortably himself today, so hot!

The Big Bang Theory was mentioned earlier in the thread. A lot of nerds hate it, but, despite the fact that it went on far too long and American sitcoms have far too many episodes each season resulting in a lot of 'lol nerds' type jokes, I think parts of the way it was set up were very well observed (obviously we can't take any actual results from the success of any of the fictional characters)

What I think it got right is dividing the two main characters into the uncomfortable nerd and the comfortable nerd. Leonard knows he is a nerd but doesn't want to be. He'd like to be stronger, taller and more interested in sports even though he knows he's not. And, of course, driving the plot, he would like to date the hot actress living next door. Sheldon, on the other hand, is the comfortable nerd. He 'knows' that sports are pointless. He 'knows' that Star Trek is awesome and if any girls think it isn't, they are the ones who are stupid.

That split is kind of present in alot of nerdy groups I've been part of - obviously overplayed for comic effect. But I've definitely been in the situation of being at a party and having to go "sshh, stop talking about Star Trek, there are hot girls nearby."

Thinking back on it, probably my best period for meeting women in my early 20s was when I started to do language evening classes and this was something I was interested in and relatively good at - it didn't lead anywhere but I did at least get a couple of meals in company that could have been considered dates if you squinted really hard.

The last thing I would say is that 'comfortable self' is a bit of a problem in your 20s when people are still trying to work out who they are and often trying to be who they are not, finally, going to be cut out to be. I mentioned the band earlier. While I love listening music, it took me ages to realize that I'm never going to be any actual good at playing it (a fact somewhat obscured by the punk/grunge ethos that said you didn't need to be technically brilliant to be a superstar. But, no, I wasn't cut out to be a very good punk/grunge musician either)

You don't want to just pick activities that women like, but you can intelligently and strategically choose from among the activities you like those that might maximize the chances of meeting women. It helps if you like a variety of activities, and especially if you like to get outside.

I like running, for instance, and running clubs present great opportunities for meeting and socializing with fit, youthful, mature women. That particular activity may not be right for everyone, but you have to be somewhat flexible and "light on your feet" to maximize your chances.

We don't really know what anyone on the board is really like, so I was initially assuming think that yes, sports are good for sporty people. In fairness, though, I've known at least one undeniable nerd who ran marathons. It does tend to be a nerd weakspot though and, while anyone not doing regular exercise should definitely start, you might take a while to get to 'comfortable with physical exercise'.

 

[SimonDoom]

As best I recall, the big thing that helped with the self-esteem at that stage was coming to understand that I didn't need a relationship to validate me, that it was actually okay to be single.

This is so important to know about oneself. A relationship is best entered free of need and full of want. I entered a very long relationship in my 20s, and I don't think I was quite sure of what I wanted or needed at that age. Whatever it was, the relationship didn't satisfy it, and it was a long period of frustration. I became single again in my 40s, and it was a revelation. I learned so much about women, and about myself, after dating again for a while. Now I've been single and unattached for a while, but I'm OK with that. I'll date again and see what happens, but without any sense of need or desperation. It's so much better that way.

 

[StillStunned]

Thinking back on it, probably my best period for meeting women in my early 20s was when I started to do language evening classes and this was something I was interested in and relatively good at - it didn't lead anywhere but I did at least get a couple of meals in company that could have been considered dates if you squinted really hard.

Back when I was studying English - with a ratio of about one guy to every twenty or so girls - I had several friends who were doing various Engineering studies. They'd get jealous, because they were stuck with nerdy guys. (And I had seven hours of class a week, for 26 weeks a year, and they had 40 hours for 40 weeks.) But, they said, "just wait until we all graduate and get jobs!"

We graduated and got jobs. They were still stuck with the nerdy guys while I was still surrounded by women. Then I started earning twice as much as they did, and they *really* began to hate me.

 

[ElectricBlue]

We graduated and got jobs. They were still stuck with the nerdy guys while I was still surrounded by women. Then I started earning twice as much as they did, and they *really* began to hate me.

Lol. I graduated with a double major BA in English and Modern History, and might have been able to teach. I went to a job pick in the Public Service three months later, and a Supply Branch Director said, "Oh, you can write? I need someone who can write." After a multi-decade career in defence-aerospace, surrounded by engineers who can't write and attractive women in all sorts of roles, I still write. Who knew?

 

[Bramblethorn]

What all-male group? I clearly meant they're alone down there.

I think we may be talking at cross purposes. How does one play Warhammer alone in a basement?

 

[SimonDoom]

Lol. I graduated with a double major BA in English and Modern History, and might have been able to teach. I went to a job pick in the Public Service three months later, and a Supply Branch Director said, "Oh, you can write? I need someone who can write." After a multi-decade career in defence-aerospace, surrounded by engineers who can't write and attractive women in all sorts of roles, I still write. Who knew?

Your undergraduate background sounds very similar to mine. Without question, I can say from experience that the ability to write has been both a professional boon and a useful tool for seducing women. I got divorced and started dating around the same time that texting became THE universal mode of communication. It was new to me but I got up to speed quickly enough.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Your undergraduate background sounds very similar to mine. Without question, I can say from experience that the ability to write has been both a professional boon and a useful tool for seducing women. I got divorced and started dating around the same time that texting became THE universal mode of communication. It was new to me but I got up to speed quickly enough.

Once you got Suzie and your mom to show you how .

As an aside, your Mom From Mars story title = chuckle. #87 allocated.

 

[SimonDoom]

As an aside, your Mom From Mars story title = chuckle. #87 allocated.

Not a real story idea. Even I have limits. Although I do what I can to push them.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not a real story idea. Even I have limits. Although I do what I can to push them.

I'm disappointed.

You could try the Shining idea - use your ace title, and fill up the first Lit page with, "Jack and his mom fuck on Mars," written over and over a thousand times. I reckon you'd still pull a decent score...

 

[Britva415]

I think we may be talking at cross purposes. How does one play Warhammer alone in a basement?

I don't remember it being mentioned, didn't know we were talking about that particular game.

I don't know it. Is it played with other people in-person?

If it's a MMO, I'll just wrap this up with saying I don't consider online gaming to be "meeting gamers," any more than I consider myself to have ever "met you."

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't remember it being mentioned, didn't know we were talking about that particular game.

The relevant branch of the discussion started here:

Norbert has already given up his WarHammer 4K night to go clog dancing

I replied:

He doesn't need to go nearly so far afield to meet women; granted, miniatures wargaming does skew heavily male, but if he were to show up at a games con or in a generalised gaming store with a play space, or look for roleplaying/gaming groups in his city that have an online presence, he'd find plenty of women around.

That's the context that I think you've missed.

I don't know it. Is it played with other people in-person?

Warhammer 40K is a miniatures-based wargame. It's played with physical miniatures on a tabletop. It involves things like measuring distances and checking lines of sight past obstacles, so yes, it's played in person.

There are various computer spinoffs but they have their own specific names. Anybody referring to "a Warhammer 40K night" is unlikely to be referring to online play.