Advice for potential new Dom

[RuReal]

No, it actually doesn't. When Good Housekeeping gives its seal of approval to a product, you know it's gone through some standard set by a neutral body. A group of experts. You are one person. I am one person. There is no bdsm-equivalent to Good Housekeeping magazine.

There is also no such thing as an expert in BDSM.

 

[intothewoods]

There is also no such thing as an expert in BDSM.

Certainly not in terms of relationship success or health.

 

[midwestyankee]

There is no seal of good housekeeping for bdsm.

There is no bdsm-equivalent to Good Housekeeping magazine.

Are you sure? I could have sworn that my last one-night casual sub-conquest had the seal tattooed on her ass.

 

[BLoved]

Actually we are not all judges that is why there is a legal system.

You are confusing the profession with the act.

We all judge, even if it is nothing more than which apple looks better.

We judge those who lie to us, those who abuse us, those who are kind to us, etc.

We make friends with some, but not others. These are called "judgment calls".

I can tell you how I think you should live your life, but besides it being rude I have no way of imposing my wishes on you nor should I be able to.

Folks here have described relationships (their own and hypotheticals) and asked me to apply my standards.

Would be cowardice to discuss a standard yet refuse to apply it to real-life situations.

As someone in a very fun large BDSM community I will say that those who belong tend to stick around and do well while those who do not are ignored. If someone breaks a legal law then steps are taken other than that we do not seem to bash each other on how we live our kinky lives.

In the other discussion on casual 'bdsm" I've witnessed stalking and seen it ignored by the stalker's pals.

I'm not impressed with the concept of self-policing. How unbiased will a search for the truth be when the result could fracture the group dynamic? Far too easy to turn a blind eye or simply accuse the victim of deceit.

Considering that in the other discussion I've been accused of just about everything under the sun, I see no reason to have any confidence in a group policing itself.

Using words such as rapist, predator and abuser are a very harsh thing to do without proper facts or information. I will reach back to my youth where we had a rape victim visit my high school class and give her opinion on what was right and wrong to feel. She claimed that anyone who even thought about tying a woman up or treating a woman certain way needed help and should go and see a doctor. It took many years and lots of growing to fully figure out how wrong she was. There is such a thing as consent and that is a very important point to all BDSM play.

I agree, and therein is the basis for a "standard" by which bdsm can be distinguished from other forms of behaviour.

If we can agree that a standard is required, then we are left discussing what that standard should be.

As for the opinion of the rape victim ... for a very long time I too saw bdsm as abusive. Couldn't wrap my head around the concept that bondage or spanking was appropriate behaviour between two lovers. Not until I met my first Beloved, who taught me that as long as love, trust, respect and safety were paramount, bdsm was a legitimate means of expressing them.

I have a very good friend that has been abused and her view point tends to differ a great deal from yours. The person who abused her claimed he loved her and kept claiming it.

There have been several exchanges regarding this in the casual 'bdsm' thread.

It is my position (and that of every dictionary I've seen) that love and abuse are mutually exclusive.

That is not to say abusers won't use "love" as an excuse, or as a method to exploit another.

Most abusers that I have run into are not into BDSM as the practice requires a great deal of self control. Most abusers seem to have large failings in that regard as well as a large lack of confidence.

There is physical abuse, and then there is emotional abuse. One leaves damage on the skin. The other damages self-esteem. The latter is easier to hide, but no less painful (and can be a good deal more painful, and longer lasting).

As for the number of abusers involved in bdsm, the discussion on casual 'bdsm' demonstrates the number one method amongst players and their advocates for silencing opposition is character assasination and other forms of attack against one's self-esteem.

Hard to believe with so much evidence of this in a public forum that no one does this privately.

Rapists are an interesting thing did you know that most rapist are not even able to attain an erection and that rape is more about power than it is about actual sex.

Yes. And there is a lot of "power" to be found through bdsm.

Rapists, predators and abusers are missing one key element consent.

So would it surprise you to know I've had casual players claim that a submissive merely showing up at a play party is considered "consent" for whatever anyone wishes to do to the individual?

Same goes if that individual allows him or herself to be bound helpless ... condoms optional.

And then there are those who use hypnosis to obtain consent, prtomising one thing and delivering something else once the subject has been hypnotized.

The concept of "consent" is subjective, and depends very much on the ethics (or lack thereof) of the individual defining it.

With consent this whole thing shifts. Things that look like abuse are not so and there is such a thing as rape play.

Well, there is more involved when it comes to consent. What of the individual who consents not because she chooses the act, but because she is acting under the influence of low self-esteem. Is her "consent" meaningful, or is it the result of a dysfunctional sense of self-worth?

What about someone experiencing the manic side of bi-polar disorder?

What about someone who has been misled regarding what to expect? Is her "consent" meaningful, even if she is the victim of deceit? What about someone high on drugs, or booze?

Now I did not mention anything about Safe or Sane and considering some people in todays world I probably should not do that.

Rule #1: No Death
Rule #2: No injuries requiring professional medical attention.

I always retain the right to refuse any request I deem unsafe for my Beloved or me.

Side note I live in Ontario as well BLoved and know people who play all over. So far I do not see a lack of caring or love. In fact they are the most affectionate and loving people I have met to date. The love and community that one feels is something that I have never experienced before. I guess my question is where are you running into all of this failure because I do not see it in my community?

I can think of several reasons why you don't see it and I do.

I don't deal with the community. I deal with their victims. Victims, once abused, do not often come back for more, and certainly see little point in making known to the community they were abused by the community members. Often they are convinced by their abuser that they are themselves to blame for the abuse.

Hard to believe a community that hypes itself as "safe" will do anything with respect to an existing member when accused of abuse by a relative newcomer.

 

[BLoved]

There is also no such thing as an expert in BDSM.

You may not be an expert, and you may not know an expert, but to say an expert can't exist is another thing entirely.

 

[Netzach]

So would it surprise you to know I've had casual players claim that a submissive merely showing up at a play party is considered "consent" for whatever anyone wishes to do to the individual?

I call bullshit. It's bullshit to pretend this is a norm among SM parties. It's bullshit to pretend this doesn't happen more often at FRAT parties than organized SM.

And then there are those who use hypnosis to obtain consent, prtomising one thing and delivering something else once the subject has been hypnotized.

This demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of how hypnosis actually works. But par for the course. Words like "rape" "abuse" "casual" and "love" also get their own special bloviatd definitions.

I don't deal with the community. I deal with their victims.

Please share your therapy credentials or go back to trolling for dysfunctional femsubs attracted by pity.

 

[intothewoods]

I call bullshit. It's bullshit to pretend this is a norm among SM parties. It's bullshit to pretend this doesn't happen more often at FRAT parties than organized SM.



This demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of how hypnosis actually works.




Please share your therapy credentials or go back to trolling for dysfunctional femsubs attracted by pity.

Right -- any PYL who said showing up at a party is all that is required to show consent would be thrown out on his or her ass.

Are you sure? I could have sworn that my last one-night casual sub-conquest had the seal tattooed on her ass.

I look a little obsessed with Good Housekeeping, don't I?

 

[BLoved]

Right -- any PYL who said showing up at a party is all that is required to show consent would be thrown out on his or her ass.

I've heard this from several players through discussions such as the one on casual 'bdsm', and I heard no one disagree or object.

 

[BLoved]

This demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of how hypnosis actually works.

Not according to those who practice hypnosis.

When the main fetlife group on the subject was asked what was the worst someone could do to another using hypnosis, the consensus was "stepford wives", "wage slave", "prostitution" and "paralysis".

As a result, I tend to view the reassuring "you' can't be made to do anything you wouldn't do normally" as bogus.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I've heard this from several players through discussions such as the one on casual 'bdsm', and I heard no one disagree or object.

This is true, actually. I consider anyone showing up in the cereal aisle at the grocery store as having given "consent," and everyone agrees, except for those two officers and that judge woman, and that court-appointed psychiatrist who says he's my "friend."

 

[BLoved]

I look a little obsessed with Good Housekeeping, don't I?

Just a tad.

Had I known you were speaking literally as opposed to a general metaphor for "safe" or "healthy", I'd likely have provided a different answer.

 

[RuReal]

I am sorry BLoved but at this point yours is the most slanted view of BDSM I have ever seen. Had I run into you at the start of my trip down this road I would be turned off the subject. Once again I state there is no such thing as a BDSM expert. You are also confusing personal Judgement with judgement period.

I think you have some problems understanding that the world is not black and white there are shades of grey. There will be bad people involved with every aspect of life as there will be people who do not respect your rules of play. I have seen fools online who would attempt to abuse the system. I never once said I believe in self policing notice that I stated if something criminal actually occurs then other action should be taken. Just a hint that other action involves no self policing but real policing I don`t care who likes the idea or not.

I tend to find a great deal of old school people who try to preach fear of people knowing about BDSM and public knowledge are the ones that worry about this. I say if someone does a criminal act then someone deserves criminal consequences. I also love how you mention the stalkers friends. If it is this persons friends and the person is an issue chances are his friends have problems as well. Why would you expect any better from them? If someone has such emotional trauma then they would be no good in a regular relationship, much less a BDSM one. BDSM is not a cure to a problem.

I refuse to acknowledge anyone as a BDSM expert at all. The moment someone claims they are an expert is the more I start doubting the fact that you are going down that road leads me to wonder about your knowledge on the subject at hand? Actually a few things you have said makes me wonder a great deal about your knowledge of the subject.

I am not one of those people who entered the BDSM playground to just listen to what others say and take their word at anything. I do my research and look at multiple sources my enjoyment is medical texts when it comes to some things because I find some people tend to get lazy and cut corners when it comes to safety because it was what they were told. The more you encourage that kind of system the more garbage you get in the mix. It is nice to learn from someone, but if you truly want to be good on your subject do your research first then you have logical questions to ask.

 

[satindesire]

Seriously, can we PLEASE STOP talking to him/her?!

I am so bored with this dead horse.

 

[intothewoods]

Just a tad.

Had I known you were speaking literally as opposed to a general metaphor for "safe" or "healthy", I'd likely have provided a different answer.

Not exactly literally, but my point was that there are many different opinions about what falls within the umbrella of bdsm and there is no ministry of bdsm to decide, including you.

 

[intothewoods]

I've heard this from several players through discussions such as the one on casual 'bdsm', and I heard no one disagree or object.

Where? On Fetlife and Collarme?

Not according to those who practice hypnosis.

When the main fetlife group on the subject was asked what was the worst someone could do to another using hypnosis, the consensus was "stepford wives", "wage slave", "prostitution" and "paralysis".

As a result, I tend to view the reassuring "you' can't be made to do anything you wouldn't do normally" as bogus.

I see, so Fetlife is your source of information -- a site which is free and open to all.

 

[chy_girl]

Right -- any PYL who said showing up at a party is all that is required to show consent would be thrown out on his or her ass.

So... am I the only one that mentally steps back and looks at a group of chatting pyls and thinks "Good god! They're like the cute blue aliens on Galaxy Quest... Step exactly wrong against one of them or their own and there wouldn't be anything left by the time word got to their PYLs..."

 

[BLoved]

I am sorry BLoved but at this point yours is the most slanted view of BDSM I have ever seen.

Probably because I do not skew my position to produce a favourable response from the majority.

Far too many concern themselves with popularity.

Not nearly enough concern themselves with the truth.

 

[BLoved]

Not exactly literally, but my point was that there are many different opinions about what falls within the umbrella of bdsm and there is no ministry of bdsm to decide, including you.

I am content to share my point of view and leave it to the reader to decide what is appropriate for them.

Unfortunately far too many casual players and their advocates prefer to censor out opposing points of view, and are willing to do their best to get opponents banned.

It appears to me there is a "ministry of bdsm", and the casual players believe they are it.

 

[BLoved]

Where? On Fetlife and Collarme?

As well as here and mds, yes.

I see, so Fetlife is your source of information -- a site which is free and open to all.

Hardly.

Their policy for banning an individual includes deleting every post and every thread started by the member.

It is a very convenient method for casual players to destroy all evidence of their indiscretions (an ability I note they do not seem to have here).

With all of the sites I've posted (aside from this one), it is easy to ban someone. Call in your casual community (30 people will work well) and get each one to complain to the mods about each post from the individual you wish to ban.

The sheer volume of complaints is such that the mods can't get anything else done.

Keep it up until you wear out the mods.

Even tho' the complaints have no merit, the nuisance value of so many complaints forces the mods into a corner where they must ban the individual simply to reduce the volume of complaints.

Unethical, but effective.

 

[BLoved]

So... am I the only one that mentally steps back and looks at a group of chatting pyls and thinks "Good god! They're like the cute blue aliens on Galaxy Quest... Step exactly wrong against one of them or their own and there wouldn't be anything left by the time word got to their PYLs..."

Collarme has what is called the "Subbie Mafia".

I believe they blacklist anyone they don't like, doing their best to 'warn' anyone who might be interested in the target.

 

[intothewoods]

As well as here and mds, yes.

Who here has ever said showing up equals consent? I've never seen it said on Fetlife either, though I'm sure there are a few yahoos everywhere.

 

[ImOnIt]

Sounds to me like someone is shitting up a perfectly good thread with a tangential agenda.

 

[BLoved]

Who here has ever said showing up equals consent? I've never seen it said on Fetlife either, though I'm sure there are a few yahoos everywhere.

Here it appears in the form of 'anyone who advises a submissive regarding the risks they are taking is insulting the intelligence of submissives', and that you will find in the casual 'bdsm' discussion, several times.

I'd provide the link to fetlife, but as I started the discussion, it was deleted when I was banned.

 

[BLoved]

Sounds to me like someone is shitting up a perfectly good thread with a tangential agenda.

You will find there are several people who feel it is absolutely essential to hijack any thread where I post, regardless of how much I am on topic.

 

[intothewoods]

Here it appears in the form of 'anyone who advises a submissive regarding the risks they are taking is insulting the intelligence of submissives', and that you will find in the casual 'bdsm' discussion, several times.

I'd provide the link to fetlife, but as I started the discussion, it was deleted when I was banned.

That is a complete mischaracterization of the discussion here. The argument was that dictating to submissives that play outside of a love-based relationship is dysfunctional is insulting.