Advice.... in reguards to my marriage and bdsm

[Stella_Omega]

QFT

There are two of you in the bedroom, one of whom survived horrific events. It should never be "all" about you even if he didn't live through those horrors.

I asked her what she wanted.

Don't be double-teaming people its not fair...

 

[Licia]

i mean his abuse involved being locked in the closet for hrs as a little boy being degraded he was tied up in the closet by his arms and neck by a moms boyfriend and even burnt on his backside and hands on the stove
he has to knw i would never hurt him in a mannerism other then pleasurable one..

I say this only with the best of intentions, but 'tis my honest opinion.

Oh. Mai god...

This guy needs TLC to the nth degree. He hasn't given you consent to do the things YOU want to do, but he tolerates watersports?! Until you learn how to do TLC appropriately, there is no good reason to top him...even if that is something he would ever desire. Probably, harm is being inflicted. If you truly do love this man, YOU will put in the time, effort, consideration, and respect that this will take to EARN his trust. Until that happens, stop being an insensitive asshole.

 

[Chiara_searches]

I asked her what she wanted.

Don't be double-teaming people its not fair...

??????

Aren't I, um, allowed to have an opinion? I am, actually. And I do, as so stated, with less directness than others said it.

You asked her what she wanted. In my view of the world in general, and my view of loving relationships in particular, her list of wants should have included helping him find peace from what happened to him. She has consistently said what she wanted from the OP on and I haven't really read her to say "I want to help him heal." Instead I basically saw her say "I want to inflict these things and he should intellectually get that I would never *really* hurt him." (See, e.g. "he has to knw i would never hurt him in a mannerism other then pleasurable one..").

As others have intimated, she hasn't really acknowledged anyone but those who ask what explicit sex acts she wants. She should intellectually get that inflicting her desires on him, without first helping him with the TLC someone else mentioned is just simply....WRONG. I find it to akin to a man expecting "his woman" to get over being raped. It doesn't work that way for many people. You don't just "get over it."

 

[roomfor1more]

Without know a lot about your background, in my opinion I feel there are potentially two issues here. The first issue, I do not believe counseling will solve and it might make it worse. If your husband's belief in being abused originated while in therapy then it is likely that the memory of abuse is a product of therapy, broadly termed false memory therapy. This means it is likely that no abuse occurred and it resulted from a counselor / therapist that was improperly trained. Furthermore, it needs to be understood that if this is the case your husband is not lying and was victimized by therapist who abused the therapist / client relationship. Last point on this issue, I am not denying that child abuse occurs. Instead I am saying there is a difference between true child abuse and memories of abuse that can only be "recovered" through therapy. Since you have not provided information if your husband's first recollection of his abuse occurred while under the care of a therapist / counselor and based on your posting, I am leaving open the possibility his statement about being abused is the result false memories created by a poorly trained therapist.

Second issue, I feel, your husband's unwillingness to participate in more extreme BDSM is a symptom of an underlying issue in the relationship. The issue I feel might be either a communication issue because you are not defining what you mean by BDSM, not defining your needs, your husband not defining his needs, and then trying to explain to him how BDSM fits into your needs. Once the both of you communicated about needs and if there still remains difference in needs then the both of you working together to find a solution that works for the both of you. However I am not reading this is occurring and left to wonder the level of communication that exists in the relationship. Since I am left with feeling, based on your posting, there is a communication issue, I also feel it could be symptomatic that you have a general dissatisfaction with the relationship that counseling would not solve.

The best advice I can give is to talk with him about your needs and try to find a solution together. If you can then take the money you would have wasted on counseling and use it to take a vacation whereby the two of you can reconnect.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Second issue, I feel, your husband's unwillingness to participate in more extreme BDSM is a symptom of an underlying issue in the relationship.

Or it simply could be, regardless of the source, that BDSM things just don't do anything for him. There are people out there that really do prefer vanilla sex. If you assume no trauma actually exists and he's aware of her "needs", if BDSM is not something that fully interests him, he might be unable to perform.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I asked her what she wanted in relation to BDSM, for fuck's sake.

 

[Licia]

Entirely well said. Although I will play devil's advocate a bit and say this: it is possible to play at BDSM with a person who's suffered through abuse. One just has to be a little more careful in the way you play.

^This, yes.

The next bit isn't for the purpose of bragging, but maybe if the OP wanders back, it'll offer a look into the mirror?

Both hubby and I were damaged as children; me ending up with the heavier load.
Just a few minutes ago, we performed a scene which was quite difficult (though the fantasy causes mutual ultimate arousal) for the two of us: order him around, put him in bondage, torture him with sexual lust, and allow his release only when I saw fit. FemDomme to the max, it was insane bliss....and he only wants to bring me pleasure. *swoons* I'm lucky, I guess.

Anyway.

I've first hand experience at being utterly used for someone else's pleasure without consent: being completely at their mercy, or NOT. I GRASP how a person can end up completely broken, so during the entire event I kept assaulting him. "Are you okay? Are you sure?" ...and so on...

Afterward, he expressed how helpless he felt when he was first tied up. His mind realized that if I had decided to hurt him, the only thing he would be capable of doing to defend himself "would be to bounce around a little bit. SODOMY (which is totally different from butt-love, btw): his worst fear!"...His words, not mine. Because I know the reality, I wanted him to be prepared for the implications. He only "thought" he knew.

Empathy. Empathy on both sides is what it takes. I want him to fully understand what it is he's asking from me, and in the same sense, I've walked around for fucking miles in the shoes which grant him erections. Thank God that I am not so sadistic that I would do to him what others have done to me. Thank God I am even capable of gentleness and love; I can be an icy, methodical sadist if "you" piss me off just right, not even caring wether I win or lose.

How can any of this take place? We have learned to be transparently honest, and that's it. Due to our naked communication and love (verb tense) for one another, we live our fantasies. Growing together is just as much fun as the tangible acts.

We've been earning each other's trust for 14 years despite the fact that the both of us are naturally ordered to this lifestyle. Loving your partner beyond death means that you are willing to do *nearly* whatever it takes to help them feel secure. Good luck.

 

[Chiara_searches]

I asked her what she wanted in relation to BDSM, for fuck's sake.

And the point everyone else is making, which she and it now seems you ignore, is that in the equation what HE wants/needs should be considered.

Pretty much everyone else is saying "consider what he wants/needs," for fuck's sake.

I'll repeat myself: the way I interpret her responses is that she basically is interacting only with the person (i.e. you) who asked her what explicit acts she wants. She is, as someone else mentioned, ignoring all the other sound advice that there are likely some fundamental reasons why no very well could mean no. Or maybe it means never, too.

Even when it was expressly pointed out she appeared to be ignoring other advice to consider his perspective, she still wrapped the responding post back to what she, she, she wants and just hasn't sprung on him.

And I purposefully didn't point it out before, but because you are again engaging in the behavior, I will. Stella, you seem to have no problem harping on things I've said...which are essentially what other people have said as well. Please go snark elsewhere for now. Your energy is better spent getting her the suggestions you wanted to give her. And if you've given the suggestions via PM, thank you for helping her. I still believe, and am allowed to say, that she also needs to help him.

 

[confusedtears]

This post has made me unspeakably angry.

How can you even write this?!

This is why people DONT report child abuse because of arseholes like you who always put it down to them 'making it up' or it 'not being true'. Afaics the the OP has not said anything about him ever having spoken to anyone about counselling-yet your immediate reaction is that he's PROBABLY lying cos a therapist told him so?

Fwiw I remembered a lot of my abuse in therapy-stuff that I had put away in my mind for years. It came back to me once I had someone I trust helping mento open my mind. And you know what. I didn't make it up. The scars line my body. I just couldn't access the memories on my own.

For fucks sake.

Without know a lot about your background, in my opinion I feel there are potentially two issues here. The first issue, I do not believe counseling will solve and it might make it worse. If your husband's belief in being abused originated while in therapy then it is likely that the memory of abuse is a product of therapy, broadly termed false memory therapy. This means it is likely that no abuse occurred and it resulted from a counselor / therapist that was improperly trained. Furthermore, it needs to be understood that if this is the case your husband is not lying and was victimized by therapist who abused the therapist / client relationship. Last point on this issue, I am not denying that child abuse occurs. Instead I am saying there is a difference between true child abuse and memories of abuse that can only be "recovered" through therapy. Since you have not provided information if your husband's first recollection of his abuse occurred while under the care of a therapist / counselor and based on your posting, I am leaving open the possibility his statement about being abused is the result false memories created by a poorly trained therapist.

Second issue, I feel, your husband's unwillingness to participate in more extreme BDSM is a symptom of an underlying issue in the relationship. The issue I feel might be either a communication issue because you are not defining what you mean by BDSM, not defining your needs, your husband not defining his needs, and then trying to explain to him how BDSM fits into your needs. Once the both of you communicated about needs and if there still remains difference in needs then the both of you working together to find a solution that works for the both of you. However I am not reading this is occurring and left to wonder the level of communication that exists in the relationship. Since I am left with feeling, based on your posting, there is a communication issue, I also feel it could be symptomatic that you have a general dissatisfaction with the relationship that counseling would not solve.

The best advice I can give is to talk with him about your needs and try to find a solution together. If you can then take the money you would have wasted on counseling and use it to take a vacation whereby the two of you can reconnect.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This post has made me unspeakably angry.

How can you even write this?!

This is why people DONT report child abuse because of arseholes like you who always put it down to them 'making it up' or it 'not being true'. Afaics the the OP has not said anything about him ever having spoken to anyone about counselling-yet your immediate reaction is that he's PROBABLY lying cos a therapist told him so?

Fwiw I remembered a lot of my abuse in therapy-stuff that I had put away in my mind for years. It came back to me once I had someone I trust helping mento open my mind. And you know what. I didn't make it up. The scars line my body. I just couldn't access the memories on my own.

For fucks sake.

This is so true. The kinds of abuse OP talked about are actually fairly common.

 

[o2bebd]

This post has made me unspeakably angry.

How can you even write this?!

This is why people DONT report child abuse because of arseholes like you who always put it down to them 'making it up' or it 'not being true'. Afaics the the OP has not said anything about him ever having spoken to anyone about counselling-yet your immediate reaction is that he's PROBABLY lying cos a therapist told him so?

Fwiw I remembered a lot of my abuse in therapy-stuff that I had put away in my mind for years. It came back to me once I had someone I trust helping mento open my mind. And you know what. I didn't make it up. The scars line my body. I just couldn't access the memories on my own.

For fucks sake.

Hugs to you.

 

[HottieMama]

This post has made me unspeakably angry.

How can you even write this?!

This is why people DONT report child abuse because of arseholes like you who always put it down to them 'making it up' or it 'not being true'. Afaics the the OP has not said anything about him ever having spoken to anyone about counselling-yet your immediate reaction is that he's PROBABLY lying cos a therapist told him so?

Fwiw I remembered a lot of my abuse in therapy-stuff that I had put away in my mind for years. It came back to me once I had someone I trust helping mento open my mind. And you know what. I didn't make it up. The scars line my body. I just couldn't access the memories on my own.

For fucks sake.

I agree....completely. First, as a survivor of abuse and secondly as someone who has been the therapist for a lot of these types of cases.

 

[DVS]

I asked her what she wanted.

Don't be double-teaming people its not fair...

Exactly. If you ask what SHE wants, she is going to tell you what SHE wants. Take it down a notch. She's asking for help, not harassment. Let's be constructive. She needs to understand her husband's situation. Some have been doing this. Understanding is 90% of the situation.

I have claustrophobia. It's not something that you'd think would be very intimidating, unless you have it. And what's worse is it has been a part of my life for EVER. I don't know anything different. I also get panic attacks. Another thing that you wouldn't think could intimidate someone, unless you are the one who experiences them.

While I would consider both of these conditions to be "under control", that is only because I have learned how to keep them that way. I'm on medication for the panic attacks, but with the right triggers, I could still get one. So, I have Xanax for those times. Both conditions are related, but separate. And they are basically phobias that exist only in my mind. Only I can see them. To someone on the outside, neither of them look very intimidating or overwhelming, but I'm on the inside.

Your husband has had a traumatic childhood. He could experience claustrophobia as well as panic attacks. But that could be only the tip of what is going through his mind. Before I knew what claustrophobia and panic attacks were, I thought I was losing my mind. The feeling of impending doom is not a pretty feeling. The feeling of not being able to breathe is not a nice feeling.

A child that experiences evil creates a wall around himself, to keep the dark scary things away. After a while, that's all he knows...it becomes normal. The longer the evil exists, the stronger that wall becomes. His personality can hide behind that wall. He can shut down, emotionally. Sometimes it takes a professional to tear down the wall, if that's even possible.

Whatever your husband might have going on in the back his mind, there are triggers that will bring them to the front. He may not totally understand what these triggers are, because some of them could be too scary to even confront.

I know you have needs. We all do. And you should be allowed to experience what you desire, if it's at all possible. You have a right to pursue your sexual desires, as a healthy human being. But, your husband has rights, too. He might be dealing with issues that you know nothing about. You are on the outside so you can't see it. He might be keeping things inside.

So, you have your desires, but be sure you recognize that while he might want to fulfill your desires, he might not be able to. There might be a time when he can, but that might only be after a long time, and with counseling to help him understand and confront his walls and his triggers.

Most important, he will have things he will never be willing to do, for reasons only he will understand. You must accept that. But, it isn't impossible that there may be a day when he can fulfill some of your dreams. Go slow and allow him to set the pace. If you push it, he might never be able to break down his walls.

 

[neci]

Go slow and allow him to set the pace. If you push it, he might never be able to break down his walls.

so true.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And the point everyone else is making, which she and it now seems you ignore, is that in the equation what HE wants/needs should be considered.

How can you have an equation when you don't know what the numbers are?

First-- we find out what one party wants.

What she wants.

Not what she thinks someone else might want, not what she might compromise on, not the second-guess, second-best, not what she thinks is best for her partner -- but what she, for herself, wants.

We respect her and her desires, something women don't get too much, as you have demonstrated here.

THEN we can address the equation.

Some of the things OP has enumerated might be acceptable, if she is willing to go slow. Some of them might be much more difficult.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Exactly. If you ask what SHE wants, she is going to tell you what SHE wants. Take it down a notch. She's asking for help, not harassment. Let's be constructive. She needs to understand her husband's situation. Some have been doing this. Understanding is 90% of the situation.

Yes, absolutely, she is asking for help. And she's getting it from more than one source, most of which are trying to be constructive. But it's difficult to sit quietly by when certain questions, aimed at helping her gain an understanding of his issues, are ignored; and her ignoring some of the hard questions is, basically, encouraged. For example:

Do you really want to "violate" him again by forcing him to do things he is not comfortable with?

How much do you know about his abuse? It may be that what you're asking for is something that would seriously trigger an emotional response that he cannot cope with/does not want to relive.

(She did generally answer this ^ question, but then roped it back into "he's gotta know I'd only hurt him in a pleasurable way", basically ignoring the point that it just might not be pleasurable for him).

Intellectually he might know you wouldn't hurt him, but abuse is often a deeper issue than that. Given what you've described, surely you can see that BDSM might cut a little close to the bone, right?

First instinct is that you're going for the "shock value" of sharing this. If not, and it's true, put yourself and your needs second. Do you love your husband or not?

OP, it's possible to do this, but through it all you need to remember that you're not the one with the damage. He is, and in this case you may need to make some observances that could seem nonsensical to you, but are deadly serious to him.

Do you realize you are asking a LOT out of any top, much less someone who may NOT even be a top, that also has severe issues based on a horrendous abuse history????

This guy needs TLC to the nth degree. He hasn't given you consent to do the things YOU want to do, but he tolerates watersports?!

There were also a few implied questions in the comments others made.

As I continued mulling over OPs concerns and the reactions I'm seeing thereto, it just kept coming back to the point that to help her, the first step may very well be to get her to acknowledge that there are reasons why her husband can't do all that she wants. He's not being selfish.

BDSM simply...is...not...for...everyone. Or only light-BDSM may work for some and he's gone as far as he'll ever want or can, even if you set the abuse issue aside.

I apologize to the OP if my frustration with being singled out for certain comments hijacked her thread. But I will also explain that this is the umpteenth time in a week that a newbie has asked for help and only selectively responds to those that seem to play into the newbie's self interests. She's in a marriage; her self interests should include his well being and yet she's ignored repeated questions directly and indirectly asking about his perspective. [Yes, she's not a technical newbie but I haven't seen her regularly post here, so in my mind she still falls into newbie-ness].

I also apologize because I know I have a low tolerance for selfish points of view. But the scant evidence before us is that she is being a tad selfish. Again, I base this on the fact that she declines to answer, or maybe just ignores, the questions that ask more than "just what do you want." I fear it perpetuates some of the mass media's misunderstanding of BDSM if she seeks our help, part of the community effectively tells others to "shhhh", and then we focus her back on only her needs. One incorrect theme is that BDSM practitioners are selfish and only concerned with their fulfillment. My understanding is that is far from the truth...yet the OP, with encouragement, is only focusing on her fulfillment without taking the first step of seeing why his past experiences might mean he can never do what she wants.

His....needs....count. His...emotional....well...being...counts.

If one is seeking help with an honest heart, shouldn't she be able to respond to questions about things beyond just her? If she is not seeking help with an honest heart, aren't we allowed to say so?

 

[DVS]

Yes, absolutely, she is asking for help. And she's getting it from more than one source, most of which are trying to be constructive. But it's difficult to sit quietly by when certain questions, aimed at helping her gain an understanding of his issues, are ignored; and her ignoring some of the hard questions is, basically, encouraged. For example:





(She did generally answer this ^ question, but then roped it back into "he's gotta know I'd only hurt him in a pleasurable way", basically ignoring the point that it just might not be pleasurable for him).











There were also a few implied questions in the comments others made.

As I continued mulling over OPs concerns and the reactions I'm seeing thereto, it just kept coming back to the point that to help her, the first step may very well be to get her to acknowledge that there are reasons why her husband can't do all that she wants. He's not being selfish.

BDSM simply...is...not...for...everyone. Or only light-BDSM may work for some and he's gone as far as he'll ever want or can, even if you set the abuse issue aside.

I apologize to the OP if my frustration with being singled out for certain comments hijacked her thread. But I will also explain that this is the umpteenth time in a week that a newbie has asked for help and only selectively responds to those that seem to play into the newbie's self interests. She's in a marriage; her self interests should include his well being and yet she's ignored repeated questions directly and indirectly asking about his perspective.

I also apologize because I know I have a low tolerance for selfish points of view. But the scant evidence before us is that she is being a tad selfish. Again, I base this on the fact that she declines to answer, or maybe just ignores, the questions that ask more than "just what do you want." I fear it perpetuates some of the mass media's misunderstanding of BDSM if she seeks our help, part of the community effectively tells others to "shhhh", and then we focus her back on only her needs. One incorrect theme is that BDSM practitioners are selfish and only concerned with their fulfillment. My understanding is that is far from the truth...yet the OP, with encouragement, is only focusing on her fulfillment without taking the first step of seeing why his past experiences might mean he can never do what she wants.

His....needs....count. His...emotional....well...being...counts.

If one is seeking help with an honest heart, shouldn't she be able to respond to questions about things beyond just her? If she is not seeking help with an honest heart, aren't we allowed to say so?

I think we all agree with you. For me, it just seemed like we were being too hard on her, when she was asking for help. I wonder if she will even be back, thinking that we're a bunch of strangers who think she's selfish and heartless.

I don't think you or anybody else has really been that mean to her, but it looked like that was the way the thread was starting to go. Like Stella said, we need to understand her and where she's coming from, before we can make any recommendations.

Personally, I understand her needs. Actually, I think we all understand needs that aren't fulfilled. But, now that we have heard what she has to say, it's time she should listen to our suggestions. That is, if that's what she came here for.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I understand her needs as well. I understand her frustration and anger.

Chiara and others, I want you to think that what you are saying here is that acknowledging and talking about our desires, our needs-- considering ourselves as a person apart anyone else -- is an act of selfishness.

Simply talking. Simply stating what we want and need is selfish, uncaring.

Think about what you've said there. Are you consciously trying to suppress a woman's voice? Why should she listen to you if you won't listen to her first?

 

[HottieMama]

I understand her needs and even her frustration. What I don't understand is her anger. What right does she have to be angry with her husband for not fulfilling her "needs," given that he has valid reason for not doing so at this time. For me, it really boils down to one of three options. Accept it, be unfaithful, or leave the marriage if your need for kink is that great.

It would be a completely different story if he was denying her "needs" but going and doing those very same things with other people. In that scenario, I feel she would be perfectly justified in being angry.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What right does she have to be angry with her husband for not fulfilling her "needs," given that he has valid reason for not doing so at this time.

Anger is one of the stages of grief.

Putting scare quotes around the word "needs" is pretty denigrating to OP, by the way.

 

[the captians wench]

Anger is one of the stages of grief.

Putting scare quotes around the word "needs" is pretty denigrating to OP, by the way.

And often emotions don't make sense. Some times you don't know why something makes you feel the way you do. You just do, and you have to deal with it. Going some where, where you can just vent, and maybe even people understand, is a wonderful way to sorting out feelings. Especially when they don't make sense.


Says the girl who's currently having issues with logic and emotion fighting each other.

 

[FurryFury]

I agree but I'd offer another option. Work WITH your life partner to find areas together that make both of you happy and/or therapy that may be needed.

FF

I understand her needs and even her frustration. What I don't understand is her anger. What right does she have to be angry with her husband for not fulfilling her "needs," given that he has valid reason for not doing so at this time. For me, it really boils down to one of three options. Accept it, be unfaithful, or leave the marriage if your need for kink is that great.

It would be a completely different story if he was denying her "needs" but going and doing those very same things with other people. In that scenario, I feel she would be perfectly justified in being angry.

 

[Chiara_searches]

We respect her and her desires, something women don't get too much, as you have demonstrated here.

Respect is a two way street. If she shows respect for her husband by helping him with what happened, then in turn she deserves respect. If she disrespects her husband by not caring about what he went through and how that might impact his ability to fulfill her sexual desires, then she doesn't get my respect.

Using an example I already related in an attempt to show this is not a gender issue, if a man was here posting saying "My woman was raped; I want to engage in rape scenes with her; why can't she just get over it" I would have the same EXACT reaction. Learn how to help your partner FIRST then you may get to where you want. Or you may not.

And at no time do I recall saying her desires were wrong. I recall saying that in my opinion the place to start was working with her husband through his trauma. I don't think working on her desires is the first step; but she's entitled to have them. I disagree with you and DVS that we have to know what she wants to engage in in order to give her constructive advice; I think that the advice to help her see it from her husband's perspective is the first part of the constructive advice.

 

[Chiara_searches]

I understand her needs and even her frustration. What I don't understand is her anger. What right does she have to be angry with her husband for not fulfilling her "needs," given that he has valid reason for not doing so at this time. For me, it really boils down to one of three options. Accept it, be unfaithful, or leave the marriage if your need for kink is that great.

It would be a completely different story if he was denying her "needs" but going and doing those very same things with other people. In that scenario, I feel she would be perfectly justified in being angry.

And this is better put that I could do. Again, if I had even seen her answer the question "do you want to violate him again" I would get a sense she is considering his perspective. But his voice was silenced before, and I feel like her ignoring the other questions about his POV is silencing him again.

*shrug* Maybe that's why I'm taking a more adamant position than normal.

 

[HottieMama]

Putting scare quotes around the word "needs" is pretty denigrating to OP, by the way.

I look at needs from a psychological perspective, and kinky sex isn't one of them. So yes, I put needs in quotes to use the same term that she is throughout her posts. Otherwise, I would call them what they truly are...WANTS.

If the OP was male, I think a lot of responses here would be a lot different.