An Open Letter To All First-Time Writers

[jeleane]

When I posted my first story I was writing an author is what I saw myself as. I write other types or stories beside erotica so writing has become my 'thing'. Now when I posted a feedback thread on I think my third story, I got feedback besides the usual it was good or it sucked. Mistress pointed out my grammar issues, using commas and whatnot. She also let me know to be more descriptive. Now negative feedback is hard to swallow because at first I was like huh how could my story not be PERFECTION and if she was in the room with me she would see I took offense. Feedback wanted or unwanted is feedback or should I say constructive criticism? More experienced authors or professors of english or people that just know how to pick out the little things provide negative feedback because maybe they think if you take their advice and process it you'd be able to grow. I took all the feedback about my punctuation and wrote again making sure I had my ducks in a row. I still had errors but I understood what everyone who gave me feedback was talking about. Its an artform. Storytellers who verbally tell stories pause and have gaps in sentences and these if it were written words, would be where punctuation would come in. Sure they guy was probably thinking who the f are you to give me feedback but if he had thought before replying and actually taken in the advice. He would have learned something.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, Lordy.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm innocent.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm innocent.

Not from what I've heard.

 

[_Lynn_]

Not from what I've heard.

But I'm good.

 

[sr71plt]

But I'm good.

I've heard that also.

 

[_Lynn_]

I've heard that also.

You sure hear a lot.

 

[driphoney]

Reading the initial post after giving it their best shot could intimidate some of those who might have asked for help otherwise too.

Maybe, but for me, at least, it's less threatening than the harsh critiques I read. And yes, sometimes I come across harsher than I mean. Especially since I tend to try to give them the perspective of a reader, which is what I am primarily.

But you have a point.

 

[driphoney]

You miss my point entirely. I wasn't (and haven't) commented on the content of the critique at all. I commented on the context. The vigilantism of giving critique at all where it was not solicited. And then being put off by the defensiveness of the response from the author receiving an unsolicted critique. My response would have been a simple "fuck off." (And I'm not prone to using the F word except in stories.)

I'm not at all trying to pick a fight with C.W. here. I had a strong opinion on the context of the OP--and C.W.'s response to that was fine as being C.W.'s opinion--and, without swaying from my opinion, I didn't quibble with it. I've only reiterated my opinion because you and Mich posted to it.

I didn't think so, but maybe. I felt that maybe he did vaguely leave out the option for commentary. He acquiesced, so you were right, though the writer did have a way to accept feedback. *shrug* If he could receive it, would he only be expecting gushing fan mail? (That's what I hope for!)

 

[Epmd607]

I didn't think so, but maybe. I felt that maybe he did vaguely leave out the option for commentary. He acquiesced, so you were right, though the writer did have a way to accept feedback. *shrug* If he could receive it, would he only be expecting gushing fan mail? (That's what I hope for!)

The OP is kind of a challenge, I can see how it might be a turn off to someone who has just posted a story and comes here to get more feedback. Like, wow these people are gonna rip me apart no matter what I've written. Sort of staking out territory--story feedback is for the pros, everyone else go away or take up archery.

Anyone else get weirded out by positive feedback? I dislike the negative ones same as most people, but a lot of the positive ones go into detail about folks' personal lives and how my story reminded them of this or that obscure reference--usually ending with 'I came so hard' etc. stuff I don't really want to hear about. I don't know what I was expecting having email turned on. I want people to get off reading my stories, just don't want to hear about it.

 

[PornGoddess2]

Yourawful writes great stories, he doesn't sweat the details. His grammar is atrocious, yet his stories are loved by many. I think there are a bunch of writers just like him here. Human brains are pretty nifty, if you don't punctuate, spell words correct, fragment, run-on, they can usually figure it all out. He's a great story teller, but really a terrible writer in the pedantic, English major sense.

Not only are grammar and spelling (and typing, something i'm guilty of making more errors in than i care to contemplate), but good orthography in general is vital.

That is, as i've told more than one writer over at StoriesOnline who have posted stories that look s if they might be fun but that i can't read:

"Mr Paragraph is your friend."

 

[poppy_cock]

Trouble is, I think anyone who's browsed the forums for a while knows that asking for feedback here is going to be a rocky ride. And having discussed this with several authors who write for Lit, it's not something that most of us would do, even though we'd like to. The chances of getting roasted alive are immense. It's astonishing how cruel some of the feedback here can be. I know that there's a whole other issue in that some people just want to hear that their writing made someone cum all over their keyboard - but even genuine requests for help are often responded to in a "I thought your writing was dull, boring and your characters were flat" way. Maybe some people think that's helpful.

So maybe offering unsolicited feedback isn't as rude as it might appear. I know I've certainly appreciated much of the unsolicited advice I've been given (once I've gotten over the "Who do you think you are?" stage )

 

[PornGoddess2]

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=666254&page=submissions
It is elitist to post open letters on message boards, and assume that the only way to write a good story is by being technically proficient. Writing a good story actually has very little to do with one's ability to get an editor's stamp of approval for following MLA standards.

OTOH, it is a contribution to the horrible decline of the English language to chide others for advocating proper language use, spelling and punctuation.

And, to be honest, anyone who posts here and *doesn't* want or expect feedback strikes me as a tad delusional - posting erotica without expecting/accepting feedback is basically masturbating ... and nobody ever got a baby playing with themselves.

 

[PornGoddess2]

I'm just saying, this is pretty common, and okay by me:

"I was working on the boat when I looked over at my sister as she pulled her shirt over her head. My sister was wearing the smallest of small bikini tops. The little patch of tan fabric did little to support her D cup breast and barely covered her nipples. My sister's breast were nearly totally on display. Her nipples pressing against the cloth. I looked away embarrassed slightly at seeing my sister in so revealing an outfit. I was shocked my sister had such huge tits. I looked back over a few seconds later when I heard my Mom yell, "Mandy"."

May be okay by you.

I probably wouldn't get past that paragraph, and i know a lot of other people who wouldn't, either.

 

[SrahFox]

I've been writing sense I turned 12. It's something I live, breath and obsess over.

However my spelling and grammar is terrible. There are several reasons for this and non of them are because I don't care. It's something I struggle with constantly. By constantly I mean I ALWAYS have my spell and grammar check on. Even if I am simply writing a friend a quick email. When I text someone I get horribly paranoid that I'm spelling everything wrong. I carry a pocket spell checker in my purse. Whatever I do, the spelling of words and their proper use just don't stick in my head. I've even studied books on grammar, hoping this was a lack of learning issue.

Knowing this about myself, I try to have several people I know read anything I write before I send it anywhere. I try not to subject anyone to my spelling/grammar issues.

I mention all of this to point out it's not exactly black and white. Just because someone misspells something, or uses the wrong grammar, does not mean they don't care. Does that mean you, the reader, must slog through my bad spelling? No, it surely doesn't. However I'd like everyone who has no problem with grammar or spelling to remember that some of us aren't that lucky.

Although I do agree that saying it's a detail the writer doesn't have to worry about is goofy.

For anyone curious, I had to spell check at least 7 words in this post.

 

[PornGoddess2]

Obviously, if the critique was requested, my comment isn't germaine. Equally obviously, though, the critique wasn't requested. And if a critique wasn't requested, my opinion of dropping a critique on the story writer's head unsolicited remains my opinion.

And my opinion, as i stated above, is that anyone who posts material here (or in any similar venue) and doesn't want/expect/accept critique is out of touch with reality.

I notice that Literotica, at least, has a "Turn off all feedback" option in your profile options.

I believe most similar sites do, also.

If it's an available option, and you haven't set it, you have no kick coming if you get feedback.

I don't ascribe to vigilante critiques. I think that's pretty arrogant.

And i'm of the opinion that posting without expecting to get critiques is pretty naive.

I personally write only two types of critiques (as opposed to simple "Wow - that was good! When can i expect more of that great nasty stuff?" notes):

1. The "Not a Bad Idea But You Need To Fix Things to Make It Readable" type

and,

2. The "What a Steaming Pile of Bovine Feces - If I'm Nasty Enough Maybe You'll Go Away and Stop Polluting My Favourite Story Site" type.

I much prefer to be sending Type 1 to Type 2. (If only because to do type 2 right, i actually have to read the crap.) Type 2 is, ideally, similar to a really good killer rejection note to a slushpile writer.

 

[PornGoddess2]

Potentially intimdating to someone whose interest is great but who also suffers equally debilitating awareness of their literary deficiencies, and, despite what some surfaces may appear to indicate, does care. Potentially.

One of my favourite webcomics is SailorSun.org, which began as a fiction site - originally the author was writing fan-meta-fiction, about the "backstage" of the fan-fiction world, but he finally admitted that his dyslexia was too extreme for people to read his stuff ... so he switched to doing a webcomic about the same cast.

And, while his art is ... serviceable ... and not much more, his stories are a lot more readable ... and enjoyable.

People who can't manage to meet other people's minimal criteria for acceptable quality should be read to be criticised.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

i is a fin aurther and don need no smartyass telln me abut puncheation i no all abot it and juss tel mi storys now shut up

ROFL

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I posted earlier, but I would like to post again to try to make my meaning a bit more clear.

Why are grammar, spelling, vocabulary important? Because they are dress for your story.
Read any of the interracial stories. One of the constants is a description of the clothing a heroine is made to wear by the man who turns her. She is made to wear a short skirt, a see-through blouse, high heels, no panties.......you know the drill. The dress is so that people will recognize the girl is a slut.It signifies.
So also is the grammar, spelling and vocabulary a signal....it is a signal that the author is writing in a professional manner, that the story is a considered matter.

By the way, I am a new author, my first story was posted a week ago. I attempted to make the first person heroine of the story a real person, and I tried, in an unspecified manner, to make her the controller in a situation in which the female character is usually controlled. I would appreciate some feedback.

Willingly - can you give us lazy tykes a link?

 

[Epmd607]

And my opinion, as i stated above, is that anyone who posts material here (or in any similar venue) and doesn't want/expect/accept critique is out of touch with reality.

I notice that Literotica, at least, has a "Turn off all feedback" option in your profile options.

I believe most similar sites do, also.

If it's an available option, and you haven't set it, you have no kick coming if you get feedback.

And i'm of the opinion that posting without expecting to get critiques is pretty naive.

I personally write only two types of critiques (as opposed to simple "Wow - that was good! When can i expect more of that great nasty stuff?" notes):

1. The "Not a Bad Idea But You Need To Fix Things to Make It Readable" type

and,

2. The "What a Steaming Pile of Bovine Feces - If I'm Nasty Enough Maybe You'll Go Away and Stop Polluting My Favourite Story Site" type.

I much prefer to be sending Type 1 to Type 2. (If only because to do type 2 right, i actually have to read the crap.) Type 2 is, ideally, similar to a really good killer rejection note to a slushpile writer.

From what I can tell you have at least two names here, PG and PG2, and you haven't posted a story(you don't write shit) So what's your story? Overseer of the English Language? Porno story Harold Bloom? This is a community of writers, erotic, porno writers etc.

Many people post stories here and turn off all feedback. They aren't out of touch with reality, they're just interested in sharing free pornography. You're probably one of those nits that posts '00', or 'Total garbage' after reading the first paragraph of a story. You've no right to make undue claims on content you haven't paid for. Move on, don't find my email and send me a message detailing my ill grammar. Because, you should know, many writers here write their stories for that one response of "Thanks, I enjoyed your story."

Demanding that everyone meet academic or professional standards is pretty much what the OP is insinuating, and you, PornGoddess, your job isn't to make sure writers here meet Modern Language standards. If you think you can give a valid critique and someone's comments are on, then go ahead. But just because someone's comments are on doesn't mean you have the right to say anything you want. These stories are freeeeeeeeee, how hard is it to figure out? You can't make any demands on something you might take pleasure in but haven't paid for. Just move on to the next story if it's so horrible.

PornGoddess thinks it's her duty to challenge the ill grammar of some joker who just posted a story about an uncle doing his niece dirty on her period. PornGoddess, MFA Student at some State U, right? Nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit much when some student or high school teacher feels like it's their duty to set people straight in Literotica world. John Grisham used to get detailed critiques from English teachers across the country whenever he'd come out with some new popular fiction. At least those teachers probably paid for the book they were critiquing. Go bother the excessica people, buy some stories from them and critique them.

 

[Skorpion49]

This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.

Things can lead to illogical extremes when following the rules blindly.

A friend assures me it's much better to end the sentence with a proposition!

 

[Epmd607]

May be okay by you.

I probably wouldn't get past that paragraph, and i know a lot of other people who wouldn't, either.

I think the point that this little muffin was making was that hundreds of thousands of readers have wanked to this dude's ill grammar. That's really the point, if the story doesn't suit you, most likely it suits someone else and that's really the only thing that matters in free porno world.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Trouble is, I think anyone who's browsed the forums for a while knows that asking for feedback here is going to be a rocky ride. And having discussed this with several authors who write for Lit, it's not something that most of us would do, even though we'd like to. The chances of getting roasted alive are immense. It's astonishing how cruel some of the feedback here can be. I know that there's a whole other issue in that some people just want to hear that their writing made someone cum all over their keyboard - but even genuine requests for help are often responded to in a "I thought your writing was dull, boring and your characters were flat" way. Maybe some people think that's helpful.

So maybe offering unsolicited feedback isn't as rude as it might appear. I know I've certainly appreciated much of the unsolicited advice I've been given (once I've gotten over the "Who do you think you are?" stage )

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I think you're a little unfair.

I haven't seen a writer get 'roasted' here and would really like a link to see it proved. Certainly, the guys I've seen commenting here are far from 'cruel' - but do point out how stories could be improved. To say 'characters are flat' should be very helpful.

We all struggle, but saying that most of the people who hang around here aren't trying to be helpful and encourage new writers is completely untrue. If you knew how much some of 'the usual suspects' here do to help writers, you might apologise for your intemperate attack.

Are you mixing 'unsolicited' public feedback on the story with the more measured responses on this forum?

 

[michchick98]

Varian_P is probably the best writer to ever post a story on this site, she was pretty deep into incest. Youbadboy, Mused, RGJohn also excellent one category(incest) authors. I read all categories, as far as I can tell there are no dumber writers or readers in one category as opposed to any other. Actually, NonCon stories might be the exception, they're usually one page sloppy messes.

There are poorly written stories in every category, and they usually get beaten up or ignored. I never read stories when people ask for feedback unless they're talking about something that sounds fresh. Writers learn quick when they're posting crap here, and when you're reading someone's story it only takes a few paragraphs to know the story isn't going anywhere.

I'm not denying that there are poor/sloppy writers in other categories, but you referred to one person, asking why his stories were so popular when he had lots of mistakes. I told you why. I didn't say all writers in the Incest category were mediocre, but after reading my comments again, I can see I should've elaborated more. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

There are mediocre writers in every category, but with the popular categories, the glaring errors will most often go unnoticed or unmentioned by the readers because of the subject matter of the story itself. If it gets them off, or moves them in some way, the errors don't matter one iota.

I don't read the entirety of a poorly written story or seek out an author to tell them they're horrible and need to study grammar.

I don't believe that you do. But there are people out there who do exactly that, for whatever reason. However, this discussion seems to be about general writing ability and what the author's response is to constructive feedback. At least that's what I'm getting out of it.

If I email an author or leave feedback on his/her story I would probably mention errors if they were distracting. I wouldn't just mention that, though. If I liked or disliked the story (over and above the errors) I'd tell him/her why. I wouldn't just say, "you've got all these grammar/punctuation/spelling errors and the story sucked."

I understand Lit is a free site so we get what we pay for, but I think I'd be safe to say many readers would want to read something coherent.

If someone's writing is off and they keep pouting about how no one responds to them, they're probably pretty dense, and you can just find someone whose writing is worth the effort. No need to educate those who can't figure it out themselves, you know, when they keep getting two ratings and don't change their program.

Yeah, but then you get the other side of the coin where if a reader sends feedback telling the author what was wrong with the story, then they get all pissy and say "don't tell me how to write" or some such. Bottom line, if you don't want feedback, don't leave a method for readers to contact you. If you do want feedback, grow a thicker skin.

 

[michchick98]

i is a fin aurther and don need no smartyass telln me abut puncheation i no all abot it and juss tel mi storys now shut up

ROFL

*snerk*