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Androgynous lookers

stickygirl said:
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Who is this I've seen them a few other times they are fucking sexy.
 
stickygirl said:
It's been said before that there's a fine line between androgynous and straight forward trans.
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I would say that line is pretty faded and blurry...at least it was for me. Before I accepted myself as transgender I lived enby, and as androgynous as I could.
Externally many were sure I was already trans before I had started hrt. As you say stickyg, its much up to how the person identifies.
 
Ok I have been watching Stickygirl's post for a while, I am just a bi married guy who had been monogamic for over 40 years with only her but I enjoy reading her posts and believe a person should be allowed to be whatever they feel the naturally are but I have a question maybe a dumb one but a question none the less as I like answers to come straight from a knowledgeable source.

Ok here is the question sorry for any long windedness, what is the actual difference between transgender and androgynous?
 
dodgeboy2 said:
Ok I have been watching Stickygirl's post for a while, I am just a bi married guy who had been monogamic for over 40 years with only her but I enjoy reading her posts and believe a person should be allowed to be whatever they feel the naturally are but I have a question maybe a dumb one but a question none the less as I like answers to come straight from a knowledgeable source.

Ok here is the question sorry for any long windedness, what is the actual difference between transgender and androgynous?
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Rosey, I think you should chime in here too.

Grammatically one is an adjective and the other a noun and so a trans person might look androgynous, because the viewer can't figure out what gender the person is without asking or staring. Maybe the androgynous look is intentional through natural features or cosmetics or the effects of hormones?

To keep things simple I'll say a trans person doesn't want any confusion over their gender. I've always wanted people in a store to call me Miss, because I want to to blend in and to have my gender confirmed by being a regular woman ( albeit a fabulous regular women, but hey ;) ).

A more complicated answer could include someone who is androgynous because they're exploring genders with their look, maybe they haven't decided, maybe it's fun, or they're a model?

What neither word reveals is their sexuality - if they're gay or straight or bi... those are separate issues.
 
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stickygirl said:
Rosey, I think you should chime in here too.

Grammatically one is an adjective and the other a noun and so a trans person might look androgynous, because the viewer can't figure out what gender the person is without asking or staring. Maybe the look is intentional through natural features or cosmetics or the effects of hormones?

To keep things simple I'll say a trans person doesn't want any confusion over their gender. I've always wanted people in a store to call me Miss, because I want to to blend in and to have my gender confirmed by being a regular woman ( albeit a fabulous regular women, but hey ;) ).

A more complicated answer could include someone who is androgynous because they're exploring genders with their look, maybe they haven't decided, maybe it's fun, or they're a model?

What neither word reveals is their sexuality - if they're gay or straight or bi... those are separate issues.
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Well as always thank you for you answer which did answer me but I guess it's still a bit confusing just somewhat less.

It's my hope for you all that you all blend in as whatever gender you are, but also feel sad as many don't and society can be a cruel bitch!
 
stickygirl said:
Rosey, I think you should chime in here too.

Grammatically one is an adjective and the other a noun and so a trans person might look androgynous, because the viewer can't figure out what gender the person is without asking or staring. Maybe the look is intentional through natural features or cosmetics or the effects of hormones?

To keep things simple I'll say a trans person doesn't want any confusion over their gender. I've always wanted people in a store to call me Miss, because I want to to blend in and to have my gender confirmed by being a regular woman ( albeit a fabulous regular women, but hey ;) ).

A more complicated answer could include someone who is androgynous because they're exploring genders with their look, maybe they haven't decided, maybe it's fun, or they're a model?

What neither word reveals is their sexuality - if they're gay or straight or bi... those are separate issues.
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Your third paragraph. When we travel together and the flight attendant calls my girlfriend Miss or M'am, she is just so happy about it.
 
dodgeboy2 said:
what is the actual difference between transgender and androgynous?
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Androgynous doesn't have anything to do with anything except for appearance. An androgynous person could be male, female, cis, trans, nonbinary, agender, etc etc etc. A nonbinary or agender person could present as androgynous, or as one gender or the other, or some other way. They could be perceived as androgynous or as one gender or the other regardless of how they "present," in terms of their intentions to present a certain way.

Transgender means a change of some kind to the gender someone was assigned at birth. Whether someone is trans or not has to do with what processes and actions they have undertaken to change how people perceive their gender. It's about identity, not about appearance. A trans person could be an AFAB with or without any of the various array of possible medical treatments, they could be a transman, transmasc, nonbinary, or something else. They could appear butch, femme, androgynous, switch, or something else. A trans person could be an AMAB with or without any of the various array of possible medical treatments, they could be a transwoman, transfem, nonbinary, or something else. They could appear butch, femme, androgynous, switch, or something else. Transgender-ness isn't about how they look but about how they perceive their own gender and how they want to be addressed and perceived by others.

Cisgendered people can also appear butch, femme, androgynous, male, female or something else. They way people look can't be relied upon to tell you their cis/trans status. You could guess but you could be wrong, and it's better to ask than to presume you know someone's gender if it doesn't seem very obvious.

But if it does seem very obvious, then sometimes it's best to just presume their gender matches their appearance, especially if they look like the kind of person who would be insulted by a question which suggests that they aren't as male as they look or as female as they look. I'm not even talking about the politics of pronouns, I'm talking about how to some cisgender people, "what are your pronouns" sounds like you're saying you can't tell if they're a woman or a man. But in 2024 they'd have to be pretty ignorant or militant to refuse to accept that you're asking with good intentions, and, it's their job not yours to balance your good faith against their feelings about how gender-conforming they think their appearance seems to you. Inadvertently hurting someone's feelings over their appearance is a much smaller offense than misgendering them because you don't have the manners, confidence or sensitivity to just kindly, politely ask when you aren't 100% positively sure.

TL;DR androgyny is about appearance and nothing else, transgender status is about a change from their assigned-at-birth gender identity and not about appearance. Could an androgynous person be trans? Sure, of course, but it doesn't mean they're trans - and they might not be, in fact they probably aren't, in the case of transmen and transwomen. Nonbinary people are trans too but again being androgynous isn't what makes someone nonbinary-gendered, identity wise.
 
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dodgeboy2 said:
Ok here is the question sorry for any long windedness, what is the actual difference between transgender and androgynous?
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Hi dodgeboy, welp, I wasn't around when you asked but I'll go ahead and give you my perspective also!
You asked about actual differences, for myself I started my medical transition 2 years ago. When I say medical I refer to being prescribed hormones to transition my physical and mental self.
Before I started a medical transition I considered myself non-binary gender wise. I tried to live my life as androgynous as I was able. Mostly I did that by styling my hair, the clothes I chose to wear.

I am here to tell you, keep in mind everyones experience can be different and deeply personal, that there are huge changes for me now. My life now really doesn't compare much at all to when I considered myself enby (non binary, androgynous), the physical changes have been awesome! They include, my skin has gotten very soft, most of my body hair is gone, the hair on my head is amazing! it has really gotten thick! and I've been growing my very own tits ( I so love them, but they are sore!) lastly my man tackle has pretty well shrunk and isn't really operable anymore.

The mental part of my transition is equally as earth shaking (for me anyways) I am so much happier life feels totally positive to me, my previous depression is gone and has been gone for almost two years! I never knew what it was like to wake up happy before I did this!
So anyways that might give you a little idea of the difference between folx that are transgender and those in the androgynous scene. Please keep in mind everyone has their own personal take on it.
 
Britva415 said:
Androgynous doesn't have anything to do with anything except for appearance. An androgynous person could be male, female, cis, trans, nonbinary, agender, etc etc etc. A nonbinary or agender person could present as androgynous, or as one gender or the other, or some other way. They could be perceived as androgynous or as one gender or the other regardless of how they "present," in terms of their intentions to present a certain way.

Transgender means a change of some kind to the gender someone was assigned at birth. Whether someone is trans or not has to do with what processes and actions they have undertaken to change how people perceive their gender. It's about identity, not about appearance. A trans person could be an AFAB with or without any of the various array of possible medical treatments, they could be a transman, transmasc, nonbinary, or something else. They could appear butch, femme, androgynous, switch, or something else. A trans person could be an AMAB with or without any of the various array of possible medical treatments, they could be a transwoman, transfem, nonbinary, or something else. They could appear butch, femme, androgynous, switch, or something else. Transgender-ness isn't about how they look but about how they perceive their own gender and how they want to be addressed and perceived by others.

Cisgendered people can also appear butch, femme, androgynous, male, female or something else. They way people look can't be relied upon to tell you their cis/trans status. You could guess but you could be wrong, and it's better to ask than to presume you know someone's gender if it doesn't seem very obvious.

But if it does seem very obvious, then sometimes it's best to just presume their gender matches their appearance, especially if they look like the kind of person who would be insulted by a question which suggests that they aren't as male as they look or as female as they look. I'm not even talking about the politics of pronouns, I'm talking about how to some cisgender people, "what are your pronouns" sounds like you're saying you can't tell if they're a woman or a man. But in 2024 they'd have to be pretty ignorant or militant to refuse to accept that you're asking with good intentions, and, it's their job not yours to balance your good faith against their feelings about how gender-conforming they think their appearance seems to you. Inadvertently hurting someone's feelings over their appearance is a much smaller offense than misgendering them because you don't have the manners, confidence or sensitivity to just kindly, politely ask when you aren't 100% positively sure.

TL;DR androgyny is about appearance and nothing else, transgender status is about a change from their assigned-at-birth gender identity and not about appearance. Could an androgynous person be trans? Sure, of course, but it doesn't mean they're trans - and they might not be, in fact they probably aren't, in the case of transmen and transwomen. Nonbinary people are trans too but again being androgynous isn't what makes someone nonbinary-gendered, identity wise.
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Thank you it is a much different meaning to be honest than I would have thought prior to beginning to follow Stikygirl's posts, and I find myself an old man learning so many more things in life than I had ever perceived coming from a large Italian Catholic homophobic family who would all rather ignore, shun or worse anyone not of their own perceived orientation.

It to be honest still has some confusing things about it but that is only how I would recognize or in the actual meeting of a person to not misquote whom they are orientation wise or or appearance wise.

Thank you all for educating a somewhat ignorant old man!
 
Zrosey said:
Hi dodgeboy, welp, I wasn't around when you asked but I'll go ahead and give you my perspective also!
You asked about actual differences, for myself I started my medical transition 2 years ago. When I say medical I refer to being prescribed hormones to transition my physical and mental self.
Before I started a medical transition I considered myself non-binary gender wise. I tried to live my life as androgynous as I was able. Mostly I did that by styling my hair, the clothes I chose to wear.

I am here to tell you, keep in mind everyones experience can be different and deeply personal, that there are huge changes for me now. My life now really doesn't compare much at all to when I considered myself enby (non binary, androgynous), the physical changes have been awesome! They include, my skin has gotten very soft, most of my body hair is gone, the hair on my head is amazing! it has really gotten thick! and I've been growing my very own tits ( I so love them, but they are sore!) lastly my man tackle has pretty well shrunk and isn't really operable anymore.

The mental part of my transition is equally as earth shaking (for me anyways) I am so much happier life feels totally positive to me, my previous depression is gone and has been gone for almost two years! I never knew what it was like to wake up happy before I did this!
So anyways that might give you a little idea of the difference between folx that are transgender and those in the androgynous scene. Please keep in mind everyone has their own personal take on it.
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Thank you everyone here is amazing btw and I'm glad you are so much happier now and I assume 2 years into it isn't a lot of time but it sounds like you seemingly got the most from it.

Good luck in your upcoming life and I hope if there is anything you want as your new self becomes a reality for you!
 
dodgeboy2 said:
Thank you everyone here is amazing btw and I'm glad you are so much happier now and I assume 2 years into it isn't a lot of time but it sounds like you seemingly got the most from it.

Good luck in your upcoming life and I hope if there is anything you want as your new self becomes a reality for you!
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I try to avoid blatant self-promotion, but this story of mine might shed some light on the topic
Goalposts
 
It's fascinating reading people's individual stories. The story I know best about what it means to be transgender is that of my girlfriend but I do wonder. Is it possible to be transgender and live as a woman but never transition?

In her case, she identified as female from her earliest memories and everyone seems to have accepted it, both her family and the community.
Until she got breast implants at the age of 35, she doesn't seem to have ever taken any steps to change her body at all.

I guess there is no "normal" and there are as many different paths as there are people.
 
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Escierto said:
Is it possible to be transgender and live as a woman but never transitition?
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I don't think "transition" is just one thing. Where I live, "transition" can mean "live as a woman" even without any medical interventions at all.

The re-naming, the expression of gender and pronouns, the wardrobe change, all of these are "transition" steps. Simply coming out of the closet is transitioning.
 
Britva415 said:
I don't think "transition" is just one thing. Where I live, "transition" can mean "live as a woman" even without any medical interventions at all.

The re-naming, the expression of gender and pronouns, the wardrobe change, all of these are "transition" steps. Simply coming out of the closet is transitioning.
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It makes sense what you are saying but I always read about people who talk about transitioning when they take HRT. Which I guess can be pretty exciting to see the changes in one's body as it is transformed. So I end up thinking that's what a transition is all about. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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