Are you a lexiphanicist?

[champagne1982]

Perhaps but maybe this is more of a point of the way society has gone. Instead of appreciating someones large vocabulary...we are instead going the simpler route. I personally enjoy using different words, if just simply for the fact that it adds a bit of spice to life

I used it as an illustration of a lesson many educators impart to their students. Write with clarity and understand what you write. I'm not asking anyone dumb down their prosody for the reader's sake, I'm simply saying that using simpler language makes any written work more accessible to a broader audience. You can't truly argue with that, can you? Don't you write to be read? I'm sure you write to whatever audience you are selling to as should any good writer.

When writing porn, write it and when writing a doctoral dissertation then write that (hopefully) differently. If you write to publish in Discover magazine you would need to couch your terminology into something an average science student can understand. If you don't you take a risk that the reader puts down the magazine in either frustration or as a result of rushing off in frenzied research.

I enjoy using different words as well, I just think they need to be employed where they do a good job.

 

[Angeline]

I used it as an illustration of a lesson many educators impart to their students. Write with clarity and understand what you write. I'm not asking anyone dumb down their prosody for the reader's sake, I'm simply saying that using simpler language makes any written work more accessible to a broader audience. You can't truly argue with that, can you? Don't you write to be read? I'm sure you write to whatever audience you are selling to as should any good writer.

When writing porn, write it and when writing a doctoral dissertation then write that (hopefully) differently. If you write to publish in Discover magazine you would need to couch your terminology into something an average science student can understand. If you don't you take a risk that the reader puts down the magazine in either frustration or as a result of rushing off in frenzied research.

I enjoy using different words as well, I just think they need to be employed where they do a good job.

I'm glad you clarified this. I know, from reading your poetry, that you are very much a proponent of using the right word at the right time, and are in no way suggesting that anyone "dumb down" their writing. It's interesting though that this thread has generated some controversy. It's almost as if people aren't reading each other's posts because we're all saying pretty much the same thing.

You've got such a good head on your shoulders, Champ. You know how to find the issues that get everyone thinking and bringing out their strong opinions.

 

[champagne1982]

I'm glad you clarified this. I know, from reading your poetry, that you are very much a proponent of using the right word at the right time, and are in no way suggesting that anyone "dumb down" their writing. It's interesting though that this thread has generated some controversy. It's almost as if people aren't reading each other's posts because we're all saying pretty much the same thing.

You've got such a good head on your shoulders, Champ. You know how to find the issues that get everyone thinking and bringing out their strong opinions.

If something (like writing) can stimulate our thinking, I figure we'd better get stimulated discussion, too.

I'm so grateful that SpeakingFreely logged in. I'd like to thank him for popping in to our group and adding the author's perspective to the article I quoted. How cool is that?

 

[Angeline]

If something (like writing) can stimulate our thinking, I figure we'd better get stimulated discussion, too.

I'm so grateful that SpeakingFreely logged in. I'd like to thank him for popping in to our group and adding the author's perspective to the article I quoted. How cool is that?

It's very cool, and it actually drew out responses from some lurkers here whose opinions I just love reading.

 

[Anschul]

I used it as an illustration of a lesson many educators impart to their students. Write with clarity and understand what you write. I'm not asking anyone dumb down their prosody for the reader's sake, I'm simply saying that using simpler language makes any written work more accessible to a broader audience. You can't truly argue with that, can you? Don't you write to be read? I'm sure you write to whatever audience you are selling to as should any good writer.

When writing porn, write it and when writing a doctoral dissertation then write that (hopefully) differently. If you write to publish in Discover magazine you would need to couch your terminology into something an average science student can understand. If you don't you take a risk that the reader puts down the magazine in either frustration or as a result of rushing off in frenzied research.

I enjoy using different words as well, I just think they need to be employed where they do a good job.

Champie, I agree with you and Angeline on your synopses of this thread, and I have read every word of it (mostly) without commenting. As a teacher of writing, I love to gain perspective on what I do, and absorbing--and hopefully incorporating--the points I agree with into my work. However (isn't there always a "however?"), you make one small point with which I must respectfully disagree: I don't believe that writers write strictly to be read--some certainly do; Robert B. Parker, George Will, Nora Roberts, Norman Mailer--but I believe that writers, certainly in the context about which we are talking here, write to be understood, or believed, or respected, or glorified, or talked about, or...or...or...

I am also concerned that many writers "dumb down" their writing on the theory that readers today are not as sophisticated as readers were fifty (or thirty or seventy or a hundred fifty) years ago. In my experience, more readers today are less sophisticated than they were when I began teaching (not an opinion, an observation--the only data I have is my personal experience). I think this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Which means, if I'm right--IF--that it is only going to get worse. We as writers have a blood-oath obligation not to let that happen. Thank God there are groups like this to do the examination and to, hopefully, spread the gospel.

The bottom line for me is that we are mostly in agreement here, that the best writers choose their words tactically, considering the subject, the audience, and the gravity, and, I think, in that order, and that the only wrong word is the wrong word--if you catch my meaning.

 

[champagne1982]

Still, if you write anything, even your diary for your eyes only, you're still writing to an audience, albeit in my example a very limited one. It doesn't matter why you write to that audience, you are still presenting your work to it; the glory, kudos or money are simply a result of writing to the correct one.

 

[The_Fool]

There are those that approach language as lovers...and there are those that don't.

I have a rool or two on this somewhere.

Having some tech writer stuff in my background, I tend towards the more simplistic. Using less for more (or is that more for less?).

Culled from a recent paper: “The panel felt the Senator was being disingenuous.”

What? Lacking in frankness or candor? He prevaricated? Equivocated? Misrepresented? Fabricated? Do any of those words come close to the power of, The panel felt the Senator lied? Everyone understands the word lie. None of the other words carry the clear meaning that lie conveys.

It concerns me to read the above section. To me, it is no different that talking in terms of black and white versus color. Granted the colors used in the above example are shades of gray. But to me, to say that someone is being disingenuous is not exactly the same as saying that someone lied. So to lose that ability to use shades of gray in language, is to lose the ability to communicate effectively, or at least most effectively.

Audience has been brought up here. Back to technical writing. I have written Military Manuals before. They have a proscribed grade level for each level of manual, from least to most complicated. So a writer had to maintain that as a guideline when he expresses himself.

Or he doesn't. More than once we have argued and will continue to argue whether it is the responsibility of the reader to educate himself to understand the writer or the responsibility of the writer to express his thoughts in a manner in which is clearly (or not) understood by the reader.

Culture does have a way of affecting vocabulary. Mass Media is media for the masses, so has to be developed in a manner that is embraced by the many and not the few, so the developer has to determine the least common denominator and accept that as the limit. And Television is the medium of entertainment of choice. Books are right out.

Technology has an affect. Now "everyone" is a writer of some form or another. There has always been some amount of shit written in the way of self expression, but technology today allows any to write their own story. When records were kept as chiseled stone tablets, there was little writing. Now anyone and everyone (almost) has access to tools of creation.

So where do I stand? Right here. I am going to use what tools I have to communicate what I need to or want to, shit or not, in the most effective way I can. Maintaining a nodding acquaintance with those I perceive as my intended audience. But words are not just tools, they are also a joy and a passion, so that too will affect my output.

 

[SpeakingFreely]

Thanks for the welcome Champagne, I was surprised to find that I hadn't found this forum before and I'm quite glad that a log link brought me here.

I spend a great deal of time trying to discover which words work, where they work, why they work. You mentioned the word 'cock' in a previous post and that word is in a list of 'power' words. It's more than just the association, it is the sound. The velar plosive that shocks the ear. Cock, Rock, Suck, Fuck, Cunt.

Then there are word combinations that are lyrical. Tolkien noticed the beauty in "cellar door", which might not bring to mind a lyrical association, an image of beauty, but becomes apparent in names like Celadorn, or Celaborne.

Then there's people like Dr. Frank Luntz that make a lifelong study, and a living, learning how to manipulate people through word choices. No one likes "drilling for oil" but "energy exploration" is acceptable, maybe even responsible.

I've never advocated "dumbing" down a work, but I don't see choosing "use" over "utilize" as dumbing down.

Carlin noticed something more sinister than a dumbing down of the language, he noticed a purposeful mellowing of the language, so as not to offend. The shell shock of WWI became post-traumatic stress disorder. Then there's political influences. No more global epidemics. Pandemic is preferred. In casual conversation, I've asked several people if they knew offhand what a pandemic was, and nearly all of them said, "It's more deadly than an epidemic".

Impacted versus affected? More political wordplay. Tax cuts became tax relief and relief is welcome while cuts may make one wonder who ends up bleeding. Gambling is an addiction, gaming implies fun. Liberal? Very few politicians use the word unless they are slamming an opponent. Liberals have become "progressives".

Again, glad I found this place, although unless I drag out some old poetry, (I haven't written any new stuff in quite some time), I may be off-topic quite often. Is there a forum here for the discussion of words, etymology, etc?

 

[hmmnmm]

I still recall a poignant moment during USAF basic training when a sergeant passionately admonished a momentarily wayward airman to 'extract' his 'cranial computer' from his 'rectal recepticle'

A bit wordy perhaps, but, the meaning was pretty clear.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Again, glad I found this place, although unless I drag out some old poetry, (I haven't written any new stuff in quite some time), I may be off-topic quite often. Is there a forum here for the discussion of words, etymology, etc?

I suspect this is as good a place as any. Start a thread if you like, and I'm sure that the word nerds around here will jump right in.

I still recall a poignant moment during USAF basic training when a sergeant passionately admonished a momentarily wayward airman to 'extract' his 'cranial computer' from his 'rectal recepticle'

A bit wordy perhaps, but, the meaning was pretty clear.

Clearly, he was writing appropriately for his audience.

bj

 

[champagne1982]

Thanks for the welcome Champagne, I was surprised to find that I hadn't found this forum before and I'm quite glad that a log link brought me here.

Not too many people expect to find in depth discussion on a "porn board". People are frequently reminding us all that this is all it is, a porn site. I find it a brilliant diversion and am glad the site owners have set aside server space for the forums.

<snip>Again, glad I found this place, although unless I drag out some old poetry, (I haven't written any new stuff in quite some time), I may be off-topic quite often. Is there a forum here for the discussion of words, etymology, etc?

You never know, we may prove the inspiration for the poetry muse hiding beneath that hat you wear elsewhere on the web. Welcome and I hope you have some fun, running about scantily clad creating poetry simply through discussing words.

Wait until CharleyH and Lauren Hynde show their (currently besotted in each other's) faces in here. They love nothing better than semiotics and the like... (I often find myself reading waaaaay over my head in their discussions but just mention vulva and giggling and the conversation returns to someplace closer to my milieu). I'm glad you've decided to visit regularly. We are simply a bunch of mad poets running around with daisies in our hair and toilet paper stuck to the heels of our shoes who are more than delighted to welcome another into the ward... ermm .. hehehe.. cell block.. oh heck.
F-O-L-D. <whew>