Baby becomes world's first to have gender marked ‘unknown'

[ElleryQueen]

I seriously and honestly can only think of a few swimming pool changing rooms where my genitals are exposed to others. Every single other place where I need to get undressed, there are stalls. And even in most of those places, people seldom strip naked - unless you're actually trying ON underwear, you keep your underwear on. The trans people I know seem to manage with this just fine.

And I countered this by sharing my experiences where there were not stalls separating us. Are you saying your experiences are more valid than mine? If so, on what grounds? If not, then what does this part of your post intend to accomplish?

Using the term 'sex/gender' isn't conflating them. That's what the slash is for - to separate them.

The conflation refers to the fact that you believe sex is also non-binary. This is not the case. Our genes are 0s and 1s. Any Intersex person is someone whose genes are a mismatching binary sequence, not unique genes that prove the existence of a ternary genetic system.

It's quite possible to say 'this is a person with a uterus' without referring to them as female or a woman. If the baby has testicles, we just need to identify them as a person with testicles and the doctors can run whatever tests they feel the need to.

Thus proving the value of sex, as well as the disconnect between sex and gender. Both of which are points lost on Kori and many of the Millennials. I'll say again, that card doesn't designate gender, it designates sex. And really, what's hard about reserving male and female for the binary sex and all other designations for the debated gender? Instead of taking this simple solution, people are now demanding not to use a designation in one just because it can also be a designation for the other.

Having said that, I've been the parent of a person with testicles for 12 years, and I've never known a doctor to feel the need to do anything like that. I've had a uterus for 50 years, and my tests have been pretty few and far between as well. I think you're over-dramatising things a bit there.

No, I'm keeping things real. You and your child may have been blessed with such health, but the fact is we have scientific and historical documentation proving not everyone else has. The best we can hope to do is minimize the workload should tragedy ever strike by keeping careful records. Kori has chosen not to do this and finds the notion of sex records appalling since she wants gender neutrality. As such, if tragedy strikes, then it's up to the doctors to find a way to work quickly without any such records and without identifying the sex.

This is a basic survival strategy: risk versus reward. Ignoring sex is a huge risk that carries no reward.

I don't think the parent in this instance is saying the child will never have a gender. I think what they're saying is that they'll let the child decide their own gender when they're able to do so. I don't really see why that's such a problem. It's not something I'd do myself (nor something I did), but I also don't find the prospect of someone else doing that an affront to me personally, or to society at large. I just don't understand what it creates such ire - really, it's that sort of reaction that creates most of the problems for people who have non-normative sexes/genders.

The problem is that Kori is going to be playing a direct role in forming the child's perception of gender, a perception that these child's documents prove is not a logical one due Kori's conflation of sex and gender and strongly suggests Kori is not very open-minded. If Kori is not open-minded, then this child cannot be open-minded until it goes to school, and this is assuming Kori never chooses to home-school for any reason. Until such a time, this child will not be able to render an independently formed opinion. And this is before we factor in the developmental phase where children begin to mimic their parents' opinions and behaviors since parents form the early foundation of children's aspirations - a stage where the children are completely devoid of independent thought until the parents correct the behavior. Kori is proving not to have such an impulse, and therefore cannot be trusted to correct this phase and create anything more than a robot. Let's also pile on parents who have coached their children into committing perjury during divorce battles under promises of instant gratification, something else that proves a child's opinion can easily be changed. The final nail will be how close-minded children are inherently, given how hard it is to make some adjust to new colors on walls, new toys, new blankets, and much more. As such, the child's decision on gender, at that time, will inherently be what it believes Kori wants, not what it truly believes - a big reason we don't consider humans to be adults until much later in life. So unless Kori intends to wait until the child reaches adulthood to make this decision and file the paperwork, that paperwork is not going to be based on the child's decision.

This child's welfare and development are our concerns. The article proves Kori places the child second to transgenderism as defined by Kori. As such, I'm very much afraid of what happens if this child manages to develop independent thought and disagrees with Kori as much as I do.

 

[KimGordon67]

And I countered this by sharing my experiences where there were not stalls separating us. Are you saying your experiences are more valid than mine? If so, on what grounds? If not, then what does this part of your post intend to accomplish?



The conflation refers to the fact that you believe sex is also non-binary. This is not the case. Our genes are 0s and 1s. Any Intersex person is someone whose genes are a mismatching binary sequence, not unique genes that prove the existence of a ternary genetic system.



Thus proving the value of sex, as well as the disconnect between sex and gender. Both of which are points lost on Kori and many of the Millennials. I'll say again, that card doesn't designate gender, it designates sex. And really, what's hard about reserving male and female for the binary sex and all other designations for the debated gender? Instead of taking this simple solution, people are now demanding not to use a designation in one just because it can also be a designation for the other.



No, I'm keeping things real. You and your child may have been blessed with such health, but the fact is we have scientific and historical documentation proving not everyone else has. The best we can hope to do is minimize the workload should tragedy ever strike by keeping careful records. Kori has chosen not to do this and finds the notion of sex records appalling since she wants gender neutrality. As such, if tragedy strikes, then it's up to the doctors to find a way to work quickly without any such records and without identifying the sex.

This is a basic survival strategy: risk versus reward. Ignoring sex is a huge risk that carries no reward.



The problem is that Kori is going to be playing a direct role in forming the child's perception of gender, a perception that these child's documents prove is not a logical one due Kori's conflation of sex and gender and strongly suggests Kori is not very open-minded. If Kori is not open-minded, then this child cannot be open-minded until it goes to school, and this is assuming Kori never chooses to home-school for any reason. Until such a time, this child will not be able to render an independently formed opinion. And this is before we factor in the developmental phase where children begin to mimic their parents' opinions and behaviors since parents form the early foundation of children's aspirations - a stage where the children are completely devoid of independent thought until the parents correct the behavior. Kori is proving not to have such an impulse, and therefore cannot be trusted to correct this phase and create anything more than a robot. Let's also pile on parents who have coached their children into committing perjury during divorce battles under promises of instant gratification, something else that proves a child's opinion can easily be changed. The final nail will be how close-minded children are inherently, given how hard it is to make some adjust to new colors on walls, new toys, new blankets, and much more. As such, the child's decision on gender, at that time, will inherently be what it believes Kori wants, not what it truly believes - a big reason we don't consider humans to be adults until much later in life. So unless Kori intends to wait until the child reaches adulthood to make this decision and file the paperwork, that paperwork is not going to be based on the child's decision.

This child's welfare and development are our concerns. The article proves Kori places the child second to transgenderism as defined by Kori. As such, I'm very much afraid of what happens if this child manages to develop independent thought and disagrees with Kori as much as I do.

lmao - I can only assume you've never been a parent to an actual child in the 21st century if you think we have total control over how they see the world.

Basically, you're coming up with statistically insignificant RL occurrences to defend your intolerance of something that is, ultimately, harmless. Harmless to the child, who clearly has a parent who loves them (which is something a lot of children don't have), and, more importantly, harmless to you. Why does it matter? Seriously ... why does it matter? Cultures through history and around the world have had various manifestations of trans gender identities. They seemed to do OK, and still seem to do OK - even, I'm guessing, when one of them got testicular cancer. Why is this such a threat?

 

[ElleryQueen]

lmao - I can only assume you've never been a parent to an actual child in the 21st century if you think we have total control over how they see the world.

No, I haven't yet had a child, but that doesn't change basic developmental principles. How well children see the world is dictated entirely by the parents' choices: If parents expose children to the multiplicity of the world, we get the free thinkers I associate with and the unruliness you claim to witness; If parents restrict the world view of children and only reward like-minded behavior, the result is robots. This critical element is what it takes to create a child capable of validating your claim and conforming to Kori's idea. Nothing in this article suggests Kori is going to be a member of the first group, and her inability to differentiate sex and gender even in the face of the opposition suggests Kori belongs to the second group.

On top of that, something you've yet to respond to, the fact remains all young children go through the replication phase, where they toss out independent thought in favor of copying someone they admire - in most cases, a parent. As such, how well this thought of "letting the child decide" only works if the parent is willing to label every response given in this phase "irrelevant." And if Kori is as clueless as you appear to be, that means Kori will not and accept this replicant answer as independent thought.

And if you truly believe children can't be swayed while they still seeing their parents through rose-tinted lenses, you've obviously never gone through a custody battle. The fact is parents are more than capable, and have proven more than willing, to manipulate children into giving desired responses. Once upon a time, this was called "punishment" and was reserved for cases when children partook in non-socially acceptable behavior such as stealing, lying, and petty violence. It's now considered cruelty by many, and those who don't see it that way also use it to punish non-conformist thinking. Thus, more robots mixed in with monsters.

Basically, you're coming up with statistically insignificant RL occurrences to defend your intolerance of something that is, ultimately, harmless.

No statistic is insignificant. That's point number one. Number two, you've obviously never been that "statistically insignificant" case. I haven't either, thankfully, but the fact is not everyone is so lucky. If you assume you'll never be it, you're a fool.

Additionally this is only harmless if Kori proves willing to accept a child who disagrees with this view of transgenderism and is truly willing to foster an open concept of gender within the upbringing. Otherwise, it's a big problem. And I'll keep saying it until you get it: Kori's defiance towards sexual documentation suggests this is will be a big problem.

Harmless to the child, who clearly has a parent who loves them (which is something a lot of children don't have)

Are you sure about that? This child has already been given a kidcessory name. There's only one parent in the picture. Kori's already begging for handouts. And Kori's blog makes it clear that cisgender is perceived as a problem. Conditional praise is fine for some kids, but conditional love is the mark of an abusive relationship.

Cultures through history and around the world have had various manifestations of trans gender identities. They seemed to do OK, and still seem to do OK

The transgenderism in those historical cases was used to justify homosexuality, and even then continued to be binary. Their religious texts taught that homosexuality was a sin, but a female soul could be trapped in male body. Rather than admit to being a sinner in times of such intolerance, they claimed transgenderism. The reason for non-binary designations was due to the lack of medical science, something necessary for the full transition, so they instead transitioned insofar as they could and called themselves something new. The only reason any of the antiquated concepts survived as medical science improved is because the homophobia did not subside and many of them still like their penises. The modern non-binary transgender not born of an old-fashioned form is little more than a non-conformist movement, and even it failed to have the free-thinking, non-conformist phase all other non-conformist movements had.

even, I'm guessing, when one of them got testicular cancer.

The society? Yes. The person? No. And that's the point. We're at a medically advanced stage. Why are we ignoring medical science? What is accomplished for a person by making medical processes harder? Certainly parts of society will persevere, Social Darwinists like myself make sure of that. But which part of society will persevere? The one that insists social labels are more important than medicine, or the one that places value in survival instinct and readiness? The one that conforms to what its elders believe without question, or the one that accepts nothing as gospel?

 

[KimGordon67]

No, I haven't yet had a child, but that doesn't change basic developmental principles. How well children see the world is dictated entirely by the parents' choices: If parents expose children to the multiplicity of the world, we get the free thinkers I associate with and the unruliness you claim to witness; If parents restrict the world view of children and only reward like-minded behavior, the result is robots. This critical element is what it takes to create a child capable of validating your claim and conforming to Kori's idea. Nothing in this article suggests Kori is going to be a member of the first group, and her inability to differentiate sex and gender even in the face of the opposition suggests Kori belongs to the second group.

On top of that, something you've yet to respond to, the fact remains all young children go through the replication phase, where they toss out independent thought in favor of copying someone they admire - in most cases, a parent. As such, how well this thought of "letting the child decide" only works if the parent is willing to label every response given in this phase "irrelevant." And if Kori is as clueless as you appear to be, that means Kori will not and accept this replicant answer as independent thought.

And if you truly believe children can't be swayed while they still seeing their parents through rose-tinted lenses, you've obviously never gone through a custody battle. The fact is parents are more than capable, and have proven more than willing, to manipulate children into giving desired responses. Once upon a time, this was called "punishment" and was reserved for cases when children partook in non-socially acceptable behavior such as stealing, lying, and petty violence. It's now considered cruelty by many, and those who don't see it that way also use it to punish non-conformist thinking. Thus, more robots mixed in with monsters.



No statistic is insignificant. That's point number one. Number two, you've obviously never been that "statistically insignificant" case. I haven't either, thankfully, but the fact is not everyone is so lucky. If you assume you'll never be it, you're a fool.

Additionally this is only harmless if Kori proves willing to accept a child who disagrees with this view of transgenderism and is truly willing to foster an open concept of gender within the upbringing. Otherwise, it's a big problem. And I'll keep saying it until you get it: Kori's defiance towards sexual documentation suggests this is will be a big problem.



Are you sure about that? This child has already been given a kidcessory name. There's only one parent in the picture. Kori's already begging for handouts. And Kori's blog makes it clear that cisgender is perceived as a problem. Conditional praise is fine for some kids, but conditional love is the mark of an abusive relationship.



The transgenderism in those historical cases was used to justify homosexuality, and even then continued to be binary. Their religious texts taught that homosexuality was a sin, but a female soul could be trapped in male body. Rather than admit to being a sinner in times of such intolerance, they claimed transgenderism. The reason for non-binary designations was due to the lack of medical science, something necessary for the full transition, so they instead transitioned insofar as they could and called themselves something new. The only reason any of the antiquated concepts survived as medical science improved is because the homophobia did not subside and many of them still like their penises. The modern non-binary transgender not born of an old-fashioned form is little more than a non-conformist movement, and even it failed to have the free-thinking, non-conformist phase all other non-conformist movements had.



The society? Yes. The person? No. And that's the point. We're at a medically advanced stage. Why are we ignoring medical science? What is accomplished for a person by making medical processes harder? Certainly parts of society will persevere, Social Darwinists like myself make sure of that. But which part of society will persevere? The one that insists social labels are more important than medicine, or the one that places value in survival instinct and readiness? The one that conforms to what its elders believe without question, or the one that accepts nothing as gospel?

'Statistically insignificant' is a statistical term. Obviously I don't think people who experience these illnesses are 'insignificant' - but I also don't think that we should construct an entire social construct around something clearly barely ever happens. It's just ridiculous.
Also, I never said exposing children to a multitude of opinions created unruliness. I also doubt that the parent of this child is going to limit their life that much - what happened here tends to suggest an openness to a range of possibilities, not a close-minded approach that assumes we have to just keep replicating the same stuff over and over again, for no other apparent reason than that's what we've always done (oh, and the cancer of the reproductive organs that is apparently rife among children).
Finally, transgender historically and across cultures is very seldom a means of justifying 'true homosexuality' - look at the berdache in Native American culture, the hijra in Hindu culture, the fa'afafine in Samoa, and myriad other cultural identities that don't fit into a binary gender pattern. TAnd I challenge you to stand in front of an actual trans person and say 'I'm sorry, you're just evidence of a non-conformist movement - your feelings about your identity are completely misguided'.

You also didn't answer the 'why does it matter?' question ... with the exception of the example of ill children that's clearly meant to cancel out any counter argument because of it's emotive value. And again, not attributing sex or gender or whatever to a child on an ID card doesn't meant you can't say 'this child has testicles' or 'this child has ovaries', so it's really a total red herring.

 

[Sweetsweatymango]

That leftist whackjob needs to have that child taken from her, then she needs to be executed.

 

[KimGordon67]

That leftist whackjob needs to have that child taken from her, then she needs to be executed.

... and people wonder why trans people have such a difficult time in the world.

The article doesn't actually seem to make any claims about their political leanings though ... although this thread does seem pretty replete with non-evidence-based claims, so I guess one more is hardly surprising.

 

[ElleryQueen]

I note my final question went unanswered, so I'm guessing that means 'no' in your case. I'd answer it was a 'yes' though

I didn't answer it because you've yet to accept I've answered every other question you've asked already, as well as every complaint I've had about Kori specifically. Additionally, it seems only fair since you dodged my question relating to our contradicting locker room experiences. And you've now doubled down by ignoring my new questions on the survival of a society.

so unless you've got references to peer reviewed research that back up all these random points you've made, they're really just based on your opinion. I've got no idea where you get these idea about child development from, but they sound like pop psychology to me.

So to summarize what you and I have exchanged in this entire topic:

Your changing room experiences are beyond reproach, yet mine are invalid.
My parenting theories need to be based on research, while yours can be "trial and error."
And you're allowed to debunk my theories based on "feeling" as opposed to any actual research after you demanded I supply some.

Did I miss anything?

Standard psychological understandings of child development have been pretty thoroughly critiqued by contemporary researchers.

Psychology is also a field that has absolutely zero genuine science within it. Since we lack tests to concretely establish personality and psychiatric disorders, we instead rely on testimony and make allowances for basic developmental phases, and then use trial and error alongside time to make an educated guess. And if we want to really rip into it, the reality is much of it was established centuries ago by philosophers, but because these people had formal educations, their word was considered more valid. Bottom line: it's trial and error with no scientific tests involved, which is precisely why psychology continually contradicts itself and all research is meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

'Statistically insignificant' is a statistical term. Obviously I don't think people who experience these illnesses are 'insignificant' - but I also don't think that we should construct an entire social construct around something clearly barely ever happens. It's just ridiculous.

Except that sex isn't a social construct. It's a genetic construct. Gender is the social construct. And really, even the non-binary movement of transgenderism is based on a social construct - it accepts the 0s and 1s set in place by our generalizations and assumptions, and insists that because not all people are purely 0s and 1s that such people exist in the world between 0 and 1. It used to be we changed the 0s to 1s and the 1s to 0s, but now such an approach is unacceptable.

Also, I never said exposing children to a multitude of opinions created unruliness.

You implied it makes them impossible to manipulate. The fact is the only reason a child chooses to test the boundaries is because the parent is not a control freak and instead exposed it to multiplicity to foster independent thought. The unruliness then results when the parent does not instill socially acceptable behavior and set any limits it then adheres to.

I also doubt that the parent of this child is going to limit their life that much - what happened here tends to suggest an openness to a range of possibilities, not a close-minded approach that assumes we have to just keep replicating the same stuff over and over again, for no other apparent reason than that's what we've always done

You haven't read Kori's blog, have you? Cisgender comes across as a clear problem. Additionally, a name like "Searyl" automatically designates the child a kidcessory, a child that the parent places second to itself. This was then proven when Kori objected to sexual identity in an effort to foster gender identity. Searyl is not Kori's child, Kori is Searyl's parent. The child is what's important, not the parent. Yet Kori demonstrated Searyl took second place.

(oh, and the cancer of the reproductive organs that is apparently rife among children).

Way to completely misrepresent my arguments.

Finally, transgender historically and across cultures is very seldom a means of justifying 'true homosexuality' - look at the berdache in Native American culture

You mean the Two-Spirit who take offense to being called "berdache" and whose designation as Two-Spirit need not be about gender identity?

the hijra in Hindu culture

You mean the group of bottom prostitutes with historically male clientele from a region that punished all religious deviancy and was noted for the strong presence of Islam in communities and government?

the fa'afafine in Samoa

You mean the group from a society that doesn't recognize homosexuality at all?

And I challenge you to stand in front of an actual trans person and say 'I'm sorry, you're just evidence of a non-conformist movement - your feelings about your identity are completely misguided'.

An actual transperson? Correct, I wouldn't, since they're actually trying to conform. However, I don't see Kori or many of these Millennial transgenders of non-binarism as actual transgenders, and would gleefully say that to their faces while also pointing out the contradiction this and every other non-conformist movement has generated. I'd also be sure to have a camera ready, since it's been documented they don't handle challengers to their ideology very well.

You also didn't answer the 'why does it matter?' question ... with the exception of the example of ill children that's clearly meant to cancel out any counter argument because of it's emotive value.

Well, you're countering with the emotive value of transgenders. The difference is I have actual scientific need behind my emotive value, for both the child's general health and the hormone therapy it would need should it be a transgender. However, if you don't like mine, I suggest you stop yours.

And again, not attributing sex or gender or whatever to a child on an ID card doesn't meant you can't say 'this child has testicles' or 'this child has ovaries', so it's really a total red herring.

Except that's precisely what Kori objected to. The card designated this element of Searyl's body, and Kori demanded it be left blank because transgenders refuse to allow such a simple designation as male or female to exist on a purely sexual level. All due to the fact that, despite gender and sex being different things, they insist that acknowledging one assumes the other.

 

[KimGordon67]

I didn't answer it because you've yet to accept I've answered every other question you've asked already, as well as every complaint I've had about Kori specifically. Additionally, it seems only fair since you dodged my question relating to our contradicting locker room experiences. And you've now doubled down by ignoring my new questions on the survival of a society.



So to summarize what you and I have exchanged in this entire topic:

Your changing room experiences are beyond reproach, yet mine are invalid.
My parenting theories need to be based on research, while yours can be "trial and error."
And you're allowed to debunk my theories based on "feeling" as opposed to any actual research after you demanded I supply some.

Did I miss anything?



Psychology is also a field that has absolutely zero genuine science within it. Since we lack tests to concretely establish personality and psychiatric disorders, we instead rely on testimony and make allowances for basic developmental phases, and then use trial and error alongside time to make an educated guess. And if we want to really rip into it, the reality is much of it was established centuries ago by philosophers, but because these people had formal educations, their word was considered more valid. Bottom line: it's trial and error with no scientific tests involved, which is precisely why psychology continually contradicts itself and all research is meant to be taken with a grain of salt.



Except that sex isn't a social construct. It's a genetic construct. Gender is the social construct. And really, even the non-binary movement of transgenderism is based on a social construct - it accepts the 0s and 1s set in place by our generalizations and assumptions, and insists that because not all people are purely 0s and 1s that such people exist in the world between 0 and 1. It used to be we changed the 0s to 1s and the 1s to 0s, but now such an approach is unacceptable.



You implied it makes them impossible to manipulate. The fact is the only reason a child chooses to test the boundaries is because the parent is not a control freak and instead exposed it to multiplicity to foster independent thought. The unruliness then results when the parent does not instill socially acceptable behavior and set any limits it then adheres to.



You haven't read Kori's blog, have you? Cisgender comes across as a clear problem. Additionally, a name like "Searyl" automatically designates the child a kidcessory, a child that the parent places second to itself. This was then proven when Kori objected to sexual identity in an effort to foster gender identity. Searyl is not Kori's child, Kori is Searyl's parent. The child is what's important, not the parent. Yet Kori demonstrated Searyl took second place.



Way to completely misrepresent my arguments.



You mean the Two-Spirit who take offense to being called "berdache" and whose designation as Two-Spirit need not be about gender identity?



You mean the group of bottom prostitutes with historically male clientele from a region that punished all religious deviancy and was noted for the strong presence of Islam in communities and government?



You mean the group from a society that doesn't recognize homosexuality at all?



An actual transperson? Correct, I wouldn't, since they're actually trying to conform. However, I don't see Kori or many of these Millennial transgenders of non-binarism as actual transgenders, and would gleefully say that to their faces while also pointing out the contradiction this and every other non-conformist movement has generated. I'd also be sure to have a camera ready, since it's been documented they don't handle challengers to their ideology very well.



Well, you're countering with the emotive value of transgenders. The difference is I have actual scientific need behind my emotive value, for both the child's general health and the hormone therapy it would need should it be a transgender. However, if you don't like mine, I suggest you stop yours.



Except that's precisely what Kori objected to. The card designated this element of Searyl's body, and Kori demanded it be left blank because transgenders refuse to allow such a simple designation as male or female to exist on a purely sexual level. All due to the fact that, despite gender and sex being different things, they insist that acknowledging one assumes the other.

The changing room thing is just so silly I dropped it. But OK, to give it the credit it apparently deserves - I don't believe putting up a few partitions in a shop or gym changing room would bankrupt a business.
My parenting theories aren't based on 'trial and error'. You just seemed to state these developmental stages as some incontrovertible fact, so I was assuming there's some research-based evidence for them. Is there? I am, however, pretty confident that parents are far from the only influence on a child's development.

Yes, I mis-used the term berdache for the sake of shorthand. Your interpretation of hijra and fa'afafine is ... well, odd to say the least.

Again, I seriously do not see how not have a sex nominated on a card jeopardises a child's health. Has the parent really said they won't let a doctor see the child's genitals, or treat any issues related to reproductive organs?

The 'real' transperson vs 'millennial' transperson argument is just ... well, I don't even know where to begin with that. I guess the problem here is that gender politics are changing and it's all a bit difficult to understand. I suppose people felt the same when women started voting. Maybe have a nap or something?

 

[Chris_Michael]

... and people wonder why trans people have such a difficult time in the world.

THIS is the most cop out bullshit point ever.

"Oh no wonder fat people go into depression and die sooner! It's because people think they are unhealthy and need to lose weight, maybe see a psych/therapist." No. Being obese is unhealthy, period.

Shut up. Nobody cares about your feelings, and nobody cares about anybody else's feelings. You know why? Because natural selection doesn't care about your feelings. NATURE is harsh and doesn't care about your feelings. If it weren't for corporate interests needing your vote, they wouldn't care either.

I'm sorry you feel as though trannies don't get a fair shake. That's because it's ABNORMAL and not how Natural Selection works.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Liberals: "Oh gawd, why are YOU so obsessed with such a small percentage of the population!?"

This. This is why.

If you're a Far Left Liberal, you become the problem when you accept this nonsense.

 

[ElleryQueen]

The changing room thing is just so silly I dropped it. But OK, to give it the credit it apparently deserves - I don't believe putting up a few partitions in a shop or gym changing room would bankrupt a business.

The price is more than the partitions. As I explained before, often times buildings aren't up to code. In order to build, they need a permit, which clears paths for inspectors. The whole building has to be brought up to code when the partitions go in.

Furthermore, I also asked why your experiences were evidently so much more valuable than mine, given that you used yours to refute mine.

My parenting theories aren't based on 'trial and error'. You just seemed to state these developmental stages as some incontrovertible fact, so I was assuming there's some research-based evidence for them. Is there?

Well, you threw out alternative theories yourself and gave no justification. Why hold me to a different standard?

I am, however, pretty confident that parents are far from the only influence on a child's development.

Whether or not this is true depends entirely on the parenting choices. If a child is sheltered and forbidden to have any non-parentally approved exposure to the world, what non-parental influences can there be?

Your interpretation of hijra and fa'afafine is ... well, odd to say the least.

Why? Because I wrote "Islam" instead of "Hinduism" to test just how well you actually know this, or because it doesn't conform to your interpretation? The fact is traditionally Samoans do not believe homosexuality is real. The fact is the hijra were born into a society that faced homophobia from certain sects of Hinduism that were given governmental backing (which actually was made worse when Islam set in). These cases don't prove non-binary transgenderism was not homophobic historically, which was your entire reason for citing them.

Again, I seriously do not see how not have a sex nominated on a card jeopardises a child's health. Has the parent really said they won't let a doctor see the child's genitals, or treat any issues related to reproductive organs?

And I provided you with just cancer as a single example of how this is important. You may call it "statistically insignificant" and believe we don't have to take precautions for it, but you're also turning around and insisting we make special legislation for 0.05% of the community due to the myth of psycho-sexual neutrality - which, by the way, became a myth due to transgenderism. And the fact remains Kori worked very hard to have the kidcessory's SEX, not gender, labeled "undefined."

The 'real' transperson vs 'millennial' transperson argument is just ... well, I don't even know where to begin with that. I guess the problem here is that gender politics are changing and it's all a bit difficult to understand. I suppose people felt the same when women started voting. Maybe have a nap or something?

There's nothing difficult to understand. The Millennial transgender is not transitioning into anything. It's simply dressing differently and demanding special pronouns. This generalizes all Millennial transgenders into the modern non-binary movement, and for those who don't conform to that I am sorry, but the fact is the non-binaries have become the new face of transgenderism and are doing the entire transgender community a great disservice. They've made it no longer about what's in their head and instead made it about what their code is.

 

[Chris_Michael]

By the way, I just want to point out that if you live in Canada and you refuse to use somebody's special pronouns such as Xie, Zie, etc., you will get arrested and face charges.

"Why do you focus so much on people who make up 0.6% of the population?!"

That's why.

 

[Boxlicker101]

By the way, I just want to point out that if you live in Canada and you refuse to use somebody's special pronouns such as Xie, Zie, etc., you will get arrested and face charges.

"Why do you focus so much on people who make up 0.6% of the population?!"

That's why.

I think we already know Canada doesn't have freedom of speech.

 

[KimGordon67]

THIS is the most cop out bullshit point ever.

"Oh no wonder fat people go into depression and die sooner! It's because people think they are unhealthy and need to lose weight, maybe see a psych/therapist." No. Being obese is unhealthy, period.

Shut up. Nobody cares about your feelings, and nobody cares about anybody else's feelings. You know why? Because natural selection doesn't care about your feelings. NATURE is harsh and doesn't care about your feelings. If it weren't for corporate interests needing your vote, they wouldn't care either.

I'm sorry you feel as though trannies don't get a fair shake. That's because it's ABNORMAL and not how Natural Selection works.

Wow. What a nasty little world you live in.

 

[KimGordon67]

I have to abandon this debate now, for entirely personal reasons. (I attempted to message to explain but obviously that wasn't possible.)
Take that as a win if it makes you happy. It doesn't make any difference to me.

The price is more than the partitions. As I explained before, often times buildings aren't up to code. In order to build, they need a permit, which clears paths for inspectors. The whole building has to be brought up to code when the partitions go in.

Furthermore, I also asked why your experiences were evidently so much more valuable than mine, given that you used yours to refute mine.



Well, you threw out alternative theories yourself and gave no justification. Why hold me to a different standard?



Whether or not this is true depends entirely on the parenting choices. If a child is sheltered and forbidden to have any non-parentally approved exposure to the world, what non-parental influences can there be?



Why? Because I wrote "Islam" instead of "Hinduism" to test just how well you actually know this, or because it doesn't conform to your interpretation? The fact is traditionally Samoans do not believe homosexuality is real. The fact is the hijra were born into a society that faced homophobia from certain sects of Hinduism that were given governmental backing (which actually was made worse when Islam set in). These cases don't prove non-binary transgenderism was not homophobic historically, which was your entire reason for citing them.



And I provided you with just cancer as a single example of how this is important. You may call it "statistically insignificant" and believe we don't have to take precautions for it, but you're also turning around and insisting we make special legislation for 0.05% of the community due to the myth of psycho-sexual neutrality - which, by the way, became a myth due to transgenderism. And the fact remains Kori worked very hard to have the kidcessory's SEX, not gender, labeled "undefined."



There's nothing difficult to understand. The Millennial transgender is not transitioning into anything. It's simply dressing differently and demanding special pronouns. This generalizes all Millennial transgenders into the modern non-binary movement, and for those who don't conform to that I am sorry, but the fact is the non-binaries have become the new face of transgenderism and are doing the entire transgender community a great disservice. They've made it no longer about what's in their head and instead made it about what their code is.

 

[Sweetsweatymango]

... and people wonder why trans people have such a difficult time in the world.

The article doesn't actually seem to make any claims about their political leanings though ... although this thread does seem pretty replete with non-evidence-based claims, so I guess one more is hardly surprising.

"Trans people"? What drug are you smoking? Those degenerate child molesters aren't even human.

 

[Chris_Michael]

"Trans people"? What drug are you smoking? Those degenerate child molesters aren't even human.

An insult!? OMG no wonder trans people have it so hard in AMERICA... because it's obviously so easy for trans people in Syria... no wonder they are at a higher risk of suicide. </s>

 

[badbabysitter]

By the way, I just want to point out that if you live in Canada and you refuse to use somebody's special pronouns such as Xie, Zie, etc., you will get arrested and face charges.

No, you won't.

How do i do know? I'm Canadian and there is no such law

 

[badbabysitter]

I think we already know Canada doesn't have freedom of speech.

But apparently we have freedom from gullible dumbasses

 

[jaF0]

Seriously? Do I need to say anything? We all know this is a Liberal agenda that these parents just forced onto their kid.

And we see what happens when parents give their kids two first names. They turn into ignorant tightasses who act like idiots on discussion boards.

 

[Chris_Michael]

And we see what happens when parents give their kids two first names. They turn into ignorant tightasses who act like idiots on discussion boards.

LOL

I'm speechless. This is just so dumb. haha

What the fuck do you think a first and middle name are supposed to be? One first name and one last name?

 

[badbabysitter]

LOL

I'm speechless. This is just so dumb. haha

What the fuck do you think a first and middle name are supposed to be? One first name and one last name?

omg

you just reinforced her point

brava