Being a woman in geek culture

[satindesire]

Curious what everyone has to say about this...

Fashion, Fake Geek Girls, and Worldcon

"And this is one of the ugly double-binds of patriarchy. A woman is supposed to be pretty, because there's no value to an ugly woman... but not too pretty because then she's at best shallow and brainless, and at worst a whore. You can't pay attention to fashion or vanity because the only kind of person who does is not a person worth knowing. But you can't not pay attention, either."

ARGH. This is so true, and you know what? Fuck that, fuck that right out the door. We've gotta start walking around in the clothes, shoes, makeup, hair and jewelry that WE want to wear for OUR reasons. And if people can't dredge up the courage to talk to me in line because I'm wearing bright red lipstick, that's not MY fault.

While I was modeling, this message was ridiculously clear. The model's "Uniform" was a white tank top and slim cut jeans, and you wore it to -every- casting call unless other clothes were specified. Specifically because: "You want to look put together and simple, you want to look beautiful but not like you're trying too hard". That was the kind of oxymoronic nonsense that was drilled into my head for YEARS while I was working in that industry. Learning the perfect amount of makeup to wear and the perfect way to keep your nails so that you were constantly polished but not overly "done" was -so difficult- because to one person, a touch of makeup isn't enough but to another, if you were wearing any at all, it was too much.

We get these ideas that we have to be perfectly pretty without ever doing anything to get that way is such bullshit. No, we have to be perfect and pretty -without ever getting caught-. The minute your boyfriend walks in on you plucking your unibrow, suddenly you're not the low-maintenance girl he thought you were. As if glowy skin, long dark lashes and boobs pushed up under your chin were SUPPOSED to be "natural".

I started going to SM conventions, which are basically sci fi conventions with different panels - in the first outfit. Didn't hurt from that perspective. She's overrating non verbal communication in my experience, I've never felt much difference in red lipstick half rubbed off by the end of the day anyway versus some other color reactions.

There's nothing wrong with positioning yourself a little tiny bit "outside" - it actually shields well from bullshit. But I see the number 1 thing as "really me" and not some kind of drag act, it's just me on a good day, me trying.

But I think a person needs to kind of decide if they're at this thing to get their fan on, learn stuff, promote self, etc.

I totally agree with this sentiment. I've NEVER been able to completely fit in with my own fashion sense. It's always just slightly behind the current trend because I simply do not have the income to keep up with current trends. I would waste embarrassing amounts of money on clothes and shoes if I had embarrassing amounts of money. But the people who look(ed) down on me because I spend my money on my kids instead of my clothes? Yeah screw them.

Oh and they pretty much love that stereotype, too. It's being inconsequential to the rest of society (which arguably many geeks never quite fit in with to begin with) while getting to make and influence your own society. If that world suddenly starts letting in just anybody, then it just becomes another extension of the other stuff that they don't like.

So, yeah. I know people who would rather be purposefully ugly and maladjusted to separate themselves from the "sheeple". You know, and it's one thing to take pride in who you are, but it's another thing to take pride in how you contrast yourself with some kind of mainstream Other.

Purposefully maladjusted. That's the clicker, isn't it? It's like people who self-diagnose as having Asperger's but in reality they're just pompous dickfaces.

It completely minimizes the very real issues that the people who aren't neurotypical have and gives me a rage rash every time.

BDSM is something you do. Being a woman is something you are.

And being a douche is something you do.

 

[Primalex]

Or they think that the rules of, say, basketball, are the rules for everything. And that, if the rules of ethical culture in general are not the same as the rules for basketball, then people hate basketball.

Or some fucking thing like that.

So, is it sexism when women have to be in the WNBA and can't play in the NBA?

 

[Primalex]

Primalex, for future reference:

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

If you're going to try being logical, the very least you can do is to actually do it somewhat correctly.

And...which one do you see in my argument?

What I've encountered so far was
- strawman
- the fallacy fallacy
- ad hominem


(Funny thing is, that there is the middle-ground fallacy and black-or-white fallacy. So it's a fallacy to say that the truth is in between and it's a fallacy to say that the truth is not in between....so everything is a fallacy)

 

[KoPilot]

So, is it sexism when women have to be in the WNBA and can't play in the NBA?

You've got two trans* folk in here.

You don't want to go down that road.

I don't think you do, though. You're just in here to ruffle feathers, it looks like. All I see is "wah wah I want my grubby hands in everything".

 

[Primalex]

You've got two trans* folk in here.

You don't want to go down that road.

I don't think you do, though. You're just in here to ruffle feathers, it looks like.

How convenient for you. Is this now a fallacy too?

 

[Stella_Omega]

How convenient for you. Is this now a fallacy too?

Yep. The fallacy of "You don't know what you're talking about."

Face it, this is quantum physics and you are still trying to figure out if two and two makes four.

 

[Netzach]

The difference between someone being a shithead to his woman in SM, is that the parties agreed to it, duh. I'll defend the roughest most fucked up misogynist shit if that's your idea of making your no-no places tingle and you both sign on. I have to sit through it or leave the room, even if it's not my thing. Fuck, I still log on here for entertainment. I'm cool with it.

..it's when they haven't agreed to it, it's the same complete bullshit everywhere you go. When dipshit man draws the conclusion that because the woman who puts up with his insults as part of foreplay has the same parts as I do and therefore I too am fair game - THEN that is not a cute "quirk" within the convention.

Apples, kumquats. And you know it, seriously.

 

[Primalex]

Yep. The fallacy of "You don't know what you're talking about."

Face it, this is quantum physics and you are still trying to figure out if two and two makes four.

ad hominem fallacy again. Why don't you try some new fallacy?

 

[Primalex]

The difference between someone being a shithead to his woman in SM, is that the parties agreed to it, duh. I'll defend the roughest most fucked up misogynist shit if that's your idea of making your no-no places tingle and you both sign on. I have to sit through it or leave the room, even if it's not my thing. Fuck, I still log on here for entertainment. I'm cool with it.

..it's when they haven't agreed to it, it's the same complete bullshit everywhere you go. When dipshit man draws the conclusion that because the woman who puts up with his insults as part of foreplay has the same parts as I do and therefore I too am fair game - THEN that is not a cute "quirk" within the convention.

Apples, kumquats. And you know it, seriously.

Of course I know - because I never made this kind of comparison or justification.

You've read the first three words and then decide to go all ballistic, because you insist on knowing the rest of the book. It's a bad habit to focus only on trigger words and then start bitching about words you've put the other person in the mouth.

 

[Stella_Omega]

ad hominem fallacy again. Why don't you try some new fallacy?

That would be true if you and your specialness weren't your only topic of conversation. Since you are talking about you, my points about you are not fallacious.

 

[Primalex]

Primalex, people try arguing "but sexism is just part of the cultureeee!!!" all the fucking time.

And they get shot down.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/...al-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games

Fucking selfish twat.

Bonus question of the day:

Is "Go shoot yourself, fat motherbitch" more offensive if it is said to a female player than a male player?

 

[Primalex]

That would be true if you and your specialness weren't your only topic of conversation. Since you are talking about you, my points about you are not fallacious.

Would you care to quote me, where I've written about myself and my specialness?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Would you care to quote me, where I've written about myself and my specialness?

In every post you've made in this thread, all of which demonstrate a complete ignorance of the discussion-- even though you've jumped right into the middle of the discussion. You really would not expect quantum scientists to stop and explain basic addition to you, unless you were so exceedingly arrogant as to think they should spend their time in your remedial education.

 

[Primalex]

In every post you've made in this thread, all of which demonstrate a complete ignorance of the discussion-- even though you've jumped right into the middle of the discussion. You really would not expect quantum scientists to stop and explain basic addition to you, unless you were so exceedingly arrogant as to think they should spend their time in your remedial education.

You could have expressed:"I can't, because I'm a liar." much shorter.

 

[Primalex]

Second bonus question:

If

Fucking selfish twat.

was said to a female geek in a discussion, would this be okay or is it only okay when it is said to a male geek?

 

[KoPilot]

You could have expressed:"I can't, because I'm a liar." much shorter.

Why do we owe you anything, again?

 

[Primalex]

Why do we owe you anything, again?

Did you check your fallacy map prior posting? Or is it only for other people, not for you?

Anyway - you don't owe me anything. You can be as hypocritical as you like. You just can't expect that I won't notice that.

 

[KoPilot]

Did you check your fallacy map prior posting? Or is it only for other people, not for you?

Anyway - you don't owe me anything. You can be as hypocritical as you like. You just can't expect that I won't notice that.

Oh no, the big man is noticing that I'm arguing from a place of emotion-- something I've known all along. Whatever shall I do?

At least I've actually got an opinion instead of being contrarian like a bitter coward.

 

[Primalex]

As a side note:

The behavior of people who think that women should be treated better in geek culture is really amusing.


It's like the father yelling:"Junior, I fucking told you to never swear again, you bastard son of a whore."

 

[Primalex]

Oh no, the big man is noticing that I'm arguing from a place of emotion-- something I've known all along. Whatever shall I do?

At least I've actually got an opinion instead of being contrarian like a bitter coward.

As if you would care about my opinion, if I had one.

 

[Primalex]

Third (and last) bonus question, then I rest my case:


If I call the OP a "dumb whore without a clue" here, is this sexism or is it part of the Literotica free speech culture and if it is sexism, do we need to change the Literotica rules so that women are treated better here?

 

[satindesire]

You know what? Not worth it. Even negative attention is still attention.

Everyone, I'm going to ask you all for the good of the thread...DO NOT get sucked into giving any trolls ANY attention. All they want is to be the center of their own little universe and they'll do and say anything in order to provoke a reaction.

 

[KoPilot]

I got us these:

Hard to see, but they're periodic table cupcakes

 

[satindesire]

I got us these:

Hard to see, but they're periodic table cupcakes

OH MY GOD those are fantastic!!

 

[Primalex]

You know what? Not worth it.

And that's why you will always be a female geek. A male geek will accept logic even if he doesn't embrace the logical result. A female geek believes that logic can be applied like make-up - with varying degrees, depending on the situation and the convenience.