Being a woman in geek culture

[Stella_Omega]

Ad hominem fallacy.

Oh please, that was funny! Where's your sense of humor?

it was just a joke, jeeeze. What are you trying to do, censor free speech?

(For those following along, every woman reading this has heard men say this sort of thing if she's ever objected to a rape or a 'make me a sammich' joke.)

 

[KoPilot]

Are you kidding? I'd love to meet you, buy you a cupcake, see your work!

ok ok fine this sounds good.

Don't worry KoPilot, we won't out you, we'll just watch your squirm a bit and then give you a cupcake

It's ok, it's just a matter of time before my work outs me anyways I guess.

And damn, I'm gonna get swarmed by a bunch of stealth sadists aren't I?

it's rough on introverts. Make sure you can refuel in private when you need to.

I actually like meeting new people a lot, even though I'm not a great conversationalist IRL. It's exciting, though it does wear me out pretty fast. I think I'll do alright... for sitting behind a table for 3 days, 9+ hours a day, shilling comics, at least.

 

[KoPilot]

Haha! OMG I never thought of it that way. But you know what? It's absolutely true. Even though our gender is constantly being designed to be a sexual object/prize to be won by The Hero, or a helpless victim, we still play. Even though we don't see female characters we can relate to, even when we feel alienated and uncomfortable sometimes. We still play.

If anything, the REAL gamers out there have been the women, all along.

Wow, mind=blown.

...

Dang, seriously.

Edited to add: I'm actually really impressed that the thread has grown as much as it has and been populated by this really amazing evolving discussion. I'm humbled, and honored, that y'all have come by here to share pieces of yourself like this. Some people would try and punish you for that kind of vulnerability, as we've already seen, and would try and make you feel less than because of your gender. But that kind of bigotry won't be socially acceptable for much longer. The bravery each of you have to be openly geeky regardless of it's potential for harm is...well. I'm gushing. But it's really cool.

This is why I prefer forums over the likes of post-it-and-forget-it social media. It's hard to keep track of threads, people, and stories. And at least for me, the camaraderie remains pretty superficial.

Anyways, I'm really glad you made the thread, and I'm glad that some (most?) of my favorite posters are hanging out in here, shooting the shit, kicking ass, taking names, trolling trolls, and sharing some good links like safe spaces are supposed to be like.



Oh, and just throwing this one out there too: http://www.geekgirlcon.com/

 

[KoPilot]

Oh please, that was funny! Where's your sense of humor?

it was just a joke, jeeeze. What are you trying to do, censor free speech?

(For those following along, every woman reading this has heard men say this sort of thing if she's ever objected to a rape or a 'make me a sammich' joke.)

Just tell him "fallacy fallacy" every time he opens his mouth on here.

 

[Loverskitten]

(For those following along, every woman reading this has heard men say this sort of thing if she's ever objected to a rape or a 'make me a sammich' joke.)

 

[Primalex]

Where's your sense of humor?

Ad hominem fallacy.

 

[Netzach]

It occurred to me that I'm actually a massive geek, I just never really had any feedback when it was relevant to me in formative years.

If deviantart had existed when I was a kid I would have been like, OMG there are others like I am.

Everything I drew through middle school was some kind of illustrative thing that we'd call fan art. A lot of it not that great by worldwide internet standards, but where I was I was "that kid who can draw." If there had been an internet, I would have seen no real reason to stop. This might have not been a good thing, or I might be doing more art now.

I was all Hitchhikers' guide and Monty Python, while being distinctly bored out of my mind by anything from the actual sci fi section of the library, that's the thing.

 

[KoPilot]

It just occurred to me that a lot of the hostility toward women found in geekdom is not at all unlike the hostility of a born-citizen population toward immigrants.

 

[Primalex]

It just occurred to me that a lot of the hostility toward women found in geekdom is not at all unlike the hostility of a born-citizen population toward immigrants.

Care to elaborate?

 

[KoPilot]

Can someone tell me what he's saying? All I keep seeing is this weird error about an "ignore list".

 

[Stella_Omega]

Can someone tell me what he's saying? All I keep seeing is this weird error about an "ignore list".

He's saying 'yap yap yap'

 

[BrightlyGo]

Care to elaborate?

Classic 'fear of the other.' Reactionary defensiveness against the natural processes of change that occur when disparate (sub-)cultures interact, too - the stuff she was talking about in comic book geekdom (guy geeks refusing to acknowledge the influence of girl geek artists and fans, refusing to believe their world is changing) looks like a textbook case viewed in the context of native vs immigrant populations, for instance.

That a fair guess at what you meant KoPilot?

 

[KoPilot]

That a fair guess at what you meant KoPilot?

Yeah, refusing to acknowledge how contributions by women, queer folks, and minorities have shaped the various industries (the academic sciences are gravely guilty of this), is just one part. I'm also talking about similarities in the ways that immigrants need to "prove" they have the "right" to "be here", and this often involves things that born-citizens have never done themselves (things like ridiculously high standards for spoken English for here in the US), or knowing things that most of the born-citizens don't themselves know (as in the case of immigration tests), and then once they're part of the culture, they're often either driven to their own isolated communities or if not, then they're constantly told that they don't belong in spaces typically reserved for the white native English-speakers.

Giving them things like voting rights, even in small, local elections, is seen as the "aliens" making power grabs, as though they don't have a right to have a part in determining how their locality is led, organized, funded, represented, etc.

 

[Keroin]

If deviantart had existed when I was a kid I would have been like, OMG there are others like I am.

Everything I drew through middle school was some kind of illustrative thing that we'd call fan art. A lot of it not that great by worldwide internet standards, but where I was I was "that kid who can draw." If there had been an internet, I would have seen no real reason to stop. This might have not been a good thing, or I might be doing more art now.

Part of me is REALLY glad there was no internet when I was growing up. Nine times out of ten it was sheer boredom that drove me outside to play (the rest of the time it was my parents: "Go outside and play!"). I know myself too well. I would have latched onto the internet like a tick. I would have missed out on developing the part of me that now loves to go outside and play.

On the other hand, how cool would it have been to connect with other people who were like me back then? To have a lifeline out of the suburbs? Not to mention the zillion other awesome things the internet gives me. Maybe I would have started on the professional writing path in my teens instead of my thirties? Who knows.

 

[KoPilot]

Part of me is REALLY glad there was no internet when I was growing up. Nine times out of ten it was sheer boredom that drove me outside to play (the rest of the time it was my parents: "Go outside and play!"). I know myself too well. I would have latched onto the internet like a tick. I would have missed out on developing the part of me that now loves to go outside and play.

On the other hand, how cool would it have been to connect with other people who were like me back then? To have a lifeline out of the suburbs? Not to mention the zillion other awesome things the internet gives me. Maybe I would have started on the professional writing path in my teens instead of my thirties? Who knows.

I dunno, I don't too many folks in my age bracket latched onto the internet thing until we were out of elementary school, and by then, you start getting a little old for the "go out and play" sort of thing. ;P

I'm glad that they've separated the gen Y-ers up into pre- and post- 90's birth because someone like my step brother, who is only 3+ years my junior, did grow up with internet; he's considered to be a gen Z-er now. I didn't start using it until I got into my "I'm bored and hate everything" teenage years.

My friends, and my brother too, did get plenty of going outside though, even will full access to vidja games. It was a balance that we managed to strike that lots of the younger kids seem to be having trouble with now. Maybe it's because I discovered paganism when I was 12 too, though, but my friends and I did puh-lenty of romping around in city-owned woods, trying to learn how to identify rocks and birds and trees.

You know, now that I think about it, as silly as it all was in retrospect, I have to say that discovering a DIY religion and practicing it with no one else but fellow girls did me a lot of good, I think.

 

[BrightlyGo]

Looking like a pretty strong analogy...


I was going to say that immigrants don't come from the same broader culture as natives, but i realized they totally can: Okies coming to CA during the Dust Bowl, for instance. Americans, but still unwelcome migrants.

 

[Noor]

ok ok fine this sounds good.



It's ok, it's just a matter of time before my work outs me anyways I guess.

And damn, I'm gonna get swarmed by a bunch of stealth sadists aren't I?



I actually like meeting new people a lot, even though I'm not a great conversationalist IRL. It's exciting, though it does wear me out pretty fast. I think I'll do alright... for sitting behind a table for 3 days, 9+ hours a day, shilling comics, at least.

As someone who has works trade shows and cons, I suggest you get a back up and have someone spell you every few hours to take a walk and look around. If you were local I would offer to help. Other dealers will probably cover you for a bathroom breaks but you really need a bit more than that. Also some cons have food delivery from their volunteer/vendor area and such, look into that. Also bring a mat to stand on if they aren't provided, that much sitting gets old fast and convention halls often have horrible floors.

The most exhausting tradeshow I ever did was when I worked for 2 vendors between panels, I literally ran from one booth to the next as the switched off. It took a week to recover.

 

[KoPilot]

As someone who has works trade shows and cons, I suggest you get a back up and have someone spell you every few hours to take a walk and look around. If you were local I would offer to help. Other dealers will probably cover you for a bathroom breaks but you really need a bit more than that. Also some cons have food delivery from their volunteer/vendor area and such, look into that. Also bring a mat to stand on if they aren't provided, that much sitting gets old fast and convention halls often have horrible floors.

The most exhausting tradeshow I ever did was when I worked for 2 vendors between panels, I literally ran from one booth to the next as the switched off. It took a week to recover.

Jesus, that sounds awful :s

Yeah, my policy right now is to not do a show without S if I'm tabling alone (don't think I have enough product right now to fill up 6-8ft anyways), or just split a table with a friend. Thankfully, I either know folks in/near in cities where most of the major shows are (read: Portland), or they're close enough to where I can bus the hubs in for the weekend. ;P

But yes.. it's definitely one of those things that you have to do a few times to get a groove going. (I may be born for this though-- I was quite the little entrepreneur as a kid: going door-to-door selling hand-drawn mazes, setting up impromptu yard sales before my mom got home from work... sometimes making enough to buy a soda at school the next day, even!)

 

[Keroin]

@Recidiva - just purchased City of Bones on Audible! Will let you know how I like it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Recidiva]

Huge. Geek. Moment.

City of Bones was fantastic.

*happy nerd dance*

 

[Recidiva]

@Recidiva - just purchased City of Bones on Audible! Will let you know how I like it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Perfect timing! We just saw the opening and if you get a chance, catch it.

It is visually stunning. They change the story a bit, but I'm okay with it, and the art direction is some of the best I've seen.

Lena Headey beating someone up with a refrigerator door and a frying pan is not to be missed.

I hope you have as much fun as I have had with it!

 

[satindesire]

The women in this thread are the reason I joined the conversation (satin, I think and have always thought that you're wonderful)

*very respectful snip!*

I really do appreciate that. I've been feeling quite heartsore the last week and nursing some serious ego bruising from a little too much self-reflection and not liking what I've been seeing. I'm TRYING to become a better person...and it's not fucking easy, let me tell you what.

But hearing (seeing?) that is a balm. Thank you, sister, I mean it.

wasn't there some guy in this or the other thread bitching about tumblr social justice types and how mean they are and it just proves that there's no such thing or something like that? I have a feeling this is what they were upset about.

I'm not sure. It's possible, but that person didn't engage us long enough to tell us what he meant about "Tumblr Feminists". Honestly, though...I can't say I'm sad about that, because I'm flat worn out trying to prove to bitter, angry men that sexism is a really REAL THING when they're 100% convinced that men are the ones who get the short end of the stick.

...

Dang, seriously.

I KNOW RIGHT?! This thread is a million times cooler than I ever thought it would be.

This is why I prefer forums over the likes of post-it-and-forget-it social media. It's hard to keep track of threads, people, and stories. And at least for me, the camaraderie remains pretty superficial.

Anyways, I'm really glad you made the thread, and I'm glad that some (most?) of my favorite posters are hanging out in here, shooting the shit, kicking ass, taking names, trolling trolls, and sharing some good links like safe spaces are supposed to be like.



Oh, and just throwing this one out there too: http://www.geekgirlcon.com/

Thanks. *blushing*

 

[Recidiva]

I really do appreciate that. I've been feeling quite heartsore the last week and nursing some serious ego bruising from a little too much self-reflection and not liking what I've been seeing. I'm TRYING to become a better person...and it's not fucking easy, let me tell you what.

But hearing (seeing?) that is a balm. Thank you, sister, I mean it.

You are deserving and welcome, feel free to hear it on a loop in your awesome head

 

[KoPilot]

I'm not sure. It's possible, but that person didn't engage us long enough to tell us what he meant about "Tumblr Feminists". Honestly, though...I can't say I'm sad about that, because I'm flat worn out trying to prove to bitter, angry men that sexism is a really REAL THING when they're 100% convinced that men are the ones who get the short end of the stick.

Exactly. Take care of ourselves first and foremost; getting us stressed and frazzled is exactly what they want.

Besides, nobody said that we had to bend over backwards to try and convince every individual dude that comes waltzing in here. Pretty sure we're allowed to use our discretion there.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Talking to a friend about these things, and she said "Do you read Zoe's blog?" So, now I do, and you can too; http://wolverina.net/

And now I want to read this author on account of her rec; http://wolverina.net/2013/08/22/worst-book-cover/