Being a woman in geek culture

[satindesire]

I am having difficulty taking you seriously with your cosmetics post underneath. No offense. But it just doesn't correlate.

Uh...what?

So a feminist can't wear makeup?

 

[Keroin]

Attended a panel yesterday about writing combat. Cool thing? All the panel members were women! Elizabeth Bear was one of them and I talked with her at the bar that evening--she said it was her favourite panel ever, she was totally stoked.

Oh my gosh and Devi Pillai, the Editor Director of Orbit Books is one of the coolest women I've ever met. Sharp, funny, ruthless. Apparently she's also a an amazing editor.

Last full day today. (Hugo Awards- yay!) I'm going to hate to leave but my liver is hanging on by a thread.

 

[Primalex]

I am having difficulty taking you seriously with your cosmetics post underneath. No offense. But it just doesn't correlate.

That's not fair!

She writes enough stupid illogical crap to not take her seriously already. No need to blame the makeup.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's not fair!

She writes enough stupid illogical crap to not take her seriously already. No need to blame the makeup.

You poor widdle fing. Nobody wuvs you.

 

[Samuelx]

Girls are usually welcome in Geek circles. Girls who look the part. Gorgeous chicks into geek stuff can sometimes be seen as threatening to some but not all geek men. Most of us are progressive and open-minded.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Girls are usually welcome in Geek circles. Girls who look the part.

It's that "look the part" bit that's a problem.

Sure, we have stereotypes about what geek guys are supposed to look like, but they're not enforced the same way. I doubt I'll ever see somebody telling Chris Kluwe he's not a real gaming geek just because he's a six-foot-four pro athlete.

 

[Recidiva]

It's that "look the part" bit that's a problem.

Sure, we have stereotypes about what geek guys are supposed to look like, but they're not enforced the same way. I doubt I'll ever see somebody telling Chris Kluwe he's not a real gaming geek just because he's a six-foot-four pro athlete.

My husband and I met online and we were both playing around about how I was a truck driver named Earl and he was a diminutive Asian teen female.

Dammit were we shocked to find that we were BOTH contributing members of society with our own domiciles and ability to attract the opposite gender with mind, body and heart. Also not threatened by each other's attractiveness or meat marketability.

Lesson well learned. Anybody not learning it is the problem.

 

[satindesire]

You poor widdle fing. Nobody wuvs you.

You're just encouraging him by feeding into his need for attention. Even negative attention is attention and he doesn't care how he gets it as long as he gets it.

He'll continue coming here and acting like an creepy obsessive stalker asshole as long as we continue to talk to him.

 

[KoPilot]

Girls are usually welcome in Geek circles. Girls who look the part. Gorgeous chicks into geek stuff can sometimes be seen as threatening to some but not all geek men. Most of us are progressive and open-minded.

What does "look the part" even mean? Do I gotta wear my Halo shirt and Avengers tighty wighties (sorry,panties), my Storm Trooper socks and custom WoW chucks? Do I gotta be dressed as Slave Leia? Do I need to be the AFAB version of a neckbeard, or is that too ew?

I'm honestly confused. Nobody should have to "look the part" for anything unless they're joining the Rebel Legion or showing up to a casting call.

 

[Noor]

I rarely look the part anywhere especially at a mainly anime con like where I was this weekend.

I suppose I could add ears, some furry fingerless gloves, pin on a tail and assimilate but then I wouldn't be me.

 

[BiBunny]

I was once told that I wouldn't be taken seriously if I went into a tattoo shop to inquire about a titanium barbell (I have a nickel allergy) because I didn't "look the part." I was wearing a t-shirt and a pair of jeans--which is my default outfit, unless I have somewhere important to go--so I'm not real sure what kinda "look" I should've been going for there.

 

[TheLM]

Better to be a woman in geek culture than a man in ancient Greek culture!

 

[KoPilot]

Better to be a woman in geek culture than a man in ancient Greek culture!

I think this is a good contender for "dumbest drive-by comment in the thread"?

 

[BrightlyGo]

What does "look the part" even mean?

Obviously, no makeup is part of it. Maybe glasses (tape optional) and hair pulled back in a plain pony-tail? Plain, perhaps baggy clothes that are in no way stylish, even if they might be a bit girly, sneakers rather than heels.

I'm sure there are other formulae that'd work. What they'd all have in common is 'not conforming to society's standard of beauty or conformity.' If you're good-looking, the idea would be, you can't be serious about wanting anything to do with geek culture (nor geeky guys), because you're not an outcast. You must have an ulterior motive, or be there to mock or trick the poor little geeks, because you don't belong - because you could automatically do better.

Sound about right?

But that's just a stereotype of a stereotype held by a stereotype. i don't think the reality is that clear cut...

 

[Recidiva]

Obviously, no makeup is part of it. Maybe glasses (tape optional) and hair pulled back in a plain pony-tail? Plain, perhaps baggy clothes that are in no way stylish, even if they might be a bit girly, sneakers rather than heels.

I'm sure there are other formulae that'd work. What they'd all have in common is 'not conforming to society's standard of beauty or conformity.' If you're good-looking, the idea would be, you can't be serious about wanting anything to do with geek culture (nor geeky guys), because you're not an outcast. You must have an ulterior motive, or be there to mock or trick the poor little geeks, because you don't belong - because you could automatically do better.

Sound about right?

But that's just a stereotype of a stereotype held by a stereotype. i don't think the reality is that clear cut...

I think it's a gamer stereotype, specific to the gamer world, but also found in the wider world.

If you believe that the game creators or God made everyone essentially equal, if you find someone who is terribly pretty, you assume they pumped all their points into beauty and can't be agile or intelligent or strong. Myth created these stories, but if you play D&D you're immersed in the balancing of stats. Mages sacrifice strength, warriors sacrifice intelligence, etc.

It's bullshit, of course, because people find ways to be envious and threatened, and this is one of them. It all boils down to "Wait a minute, you're smarter than me AND you have tits and clear skin? No fair! Fuck that."

Since geek is the realm of the terribly smart or terribly obsessed, yes, it can be assumed that you don't "have" to be there and you could be out doing something else that's more socially acceptable. I can attest to loads and loads of pretty and agile, smart and intelligent gamers.

Occasionally it does piss me off that my husband is so much smarter, stronger, prettier and agile than I am, but I just tell him so and then get on with being grateful he's on my side.

I think it pisses the socially awkward off to have their realm invaded by the socially acceptable or prized. They have my sympathy, but if I'm expected to deal with their stereotypical bullshit, they can deal with mine.

 

[Keroin]

Oh I feel like this right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFQQVEd5LoM

I met so many amazing new people. So many cool women.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think it's a gamer stereotype, specific to the gamer world, but also found in the wider world.

If you believe that the game creators or God made everyone essentially equal, if you find someone who is terribly pretty, you assume they pumped all their points into beauty and can't be agile or intelligent or strong. Myth created these stories, but if you play D&D you're immersed in the balancing of stats. Mages sacrifice strength, warriors sacrifice intelligence, etc.

And if you actively strive to push your charisma further down, that must mean a boost to some other attribute that you value more! (Cue amateur self-diagnosis of Asperger's if required to rationalise this bullshit.)

I remember one player who managed to min-max his character's Charisma down to 4 in one of our D&D games, on the assumption that it didn't matter. He got killed by an angry mob one session later...

It's bullshit, of course, because people find ways to be envious and threatened, and this is one of them. It all boils down to "Wait a minute, you're smarter than me AND you have tits and clear skin? No fair! Fuck that."

Also bullshit because IRL these 'attributes' - to the extent that they're meaningful at all - will often complement one another. Studying mathematics and programming gave me a lot of insight into how to relate better to people. (And I don't mean in a BBT "flowchart" sort of way.)

On the subject of "fake geek girls": https://twitter.com/roseveleth/status/374333659714572289/photo/1

 

[Recidiva]

And if you actively strive to push your charisma further down, that must mean a boost to some other attribute that you value more! (Cue amateur self-diagnosis of Asperger's if required to rationalise this bullshit.)

I remember one player who managed to min-max his character's Charisma down to 4 in one of our D&D games, on the assumption that it didn't matter. He got killed by an angry mob one session later...

Also bullshit because IRL these 'attributes' - to the extent that they're meaningful at all - will often complement one another. Studying mathematics and programming gave me a lot of insight into how to relate better to people. (And I don't mean in a BBT "flowchart" sort of way.)

On the subject of "fake geek girls": https://twitter.com/roseveleth/status/374333659714572289/photo/1

I'm always a "balanced" character when possible, and when games like Dragon Age make it impossible to wear the higher level gear because I didn't pump one stat to the exclusion of others, I get irritated.

I agree with you. The sooner you blow the idea of "people all start with the same points" and "it's not fair if people have more points than I do" the better off you get along with people and the easier it is to treat this behavior for what it is - being dumb and offensive, not being right.

The better you balance your personal character by getting gains from multiple creative streams and interests, the better off you are.

 

[KoPilot]

Keroin, I'm jelly! But also glad you had such a great time. Here's to great conventions for everyone here. :>

 

[Primalex]

You're just encouraging him by feeding into his need for attention. Even negative attention is attention and he doesn't care how he gets it as long as he gets it.

He'll continue coming here and acting like an creepy obsessive stalker asshole as long as we continue to talk to him.

Muahahaha! And even if you just talk _about_ me.


FEED ME, SEYMORE, FEED ME NOW!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Obviously, no makeup is part of it. Maybe glasses (tape optional) and hair pulled back in a plain pony-tail? Plain, perhaps baggy clothes that are in no way stylish, even if they might be a bit girly, sneakers rather than heels.

I'm sure there are other formulae that'd work. What they'd all have in common is 'not conforming to society's standard of beauty or conformity.' If you're good-looking, the idea would be, you can't be serious about wanting anything to do with geek culture (nor geeky guys), because you're not an outcast. You must have an ulterior motive, or be there to mock or trick the poor little geeks, because you don't belong - because you could automatically do better.

Sound about right?

But that's just a stereotype of a stereotype held by a stereotype. i don't think the reality is that clear cut...

There's a germ of truth in it. As a lesbian I tend pass over "lipstick lesbians." I figure (rightly or wrongly) that if she's going to expend effort on looking normally attractive, it's probably that she's trying to attract normal people, I.E. other women invested in the status quo... This is not to say that women in makeup are always about normativity. But it shows in other ways.

 

[BrightlyGo]

If you believe that the game creators or God made everyone essentially equal, if you find someone who is terribly pretty, you assume they pumped all their points into beauty and can't be agile or intelligent or strong.

Lol. If reality were a game, balance would not be its strong suit.

It all boils down to "Wait a minute, you're smarter than me AND you have tits and clear skin? No fair! Fuck that."

Nod. With a side-helping of "mundanes like & accept you for your appearance, while they despise me - but you want to be liked and accepted here in the sub-culture where i take refuge, too? But this was /my/ 'safe' place!"

Occasionally it does piss me off that my husband is so much smarter, stronger, prettier and agile than I am, but I just tell him so and then get on with being grateful he's on my side.

Yeah, i know that feeling. i'm just grateful that She keeps me - mystified, but grateful.

 

[Keroin]

Keroin, I'm jelly! But also glad you had such a great time. Here's to great conventions for everyone here. :>

Thanks KP! Hopefully I see you out there one day. I am definitely a "con"vert. Can't wait for the next one. Far too tired to write anything profound about the experience right now but I can state that I did not have even one bad experience all the gender interaction I had and saw was respectful, professional, and fucking fun--and I interacted with a LOT of people.

I loved that during his Hugo Award speech John Picacio made a point of stating how disappointed he was with his state's treatment of women (he's Texan) and talked about the need for real gender equality.

Also, many Hugo winners last night were women!

@Noor - Paul Cornell was the host of the Hugos and he was AWESOME!! I can see why you like him.

Sooo sleepy. One more flight. One bus ride home tomorrow, and then it will be truly "over".

 

[satindesire]

Apologies that I haven't posted anything in a bit, I got sunburned at the zoo and have been sick with a fever the last few days. ;_;

I'll be back around in a day or two! Here's to aloe and iced tea!

 

[Recidiva]

Apologies that I haven't posted anything in a bit, I got sunburned at the zoo and have been sick with a fever the last few days. ;_;

I'll be back around in a day or two! Here's to aloe and iced tea!

Feel better soon!