Being compelled to write a certain way, vs deciding what to do

[Jackie.Hikaru]

I don't think I ever feel like I lose control of the story I'm writing, but the way I like to think about it is that sometimes a favorable wind has picked up that'll take me in the direction I want to go. I'm still in control, so to speak, but I'm also at the mercy of the wind.
When a story feels like it's going nowhere, it's like I'm on a steam boat having to constantly shovel coal to get the damn thing moving. I might get to the end but I'll probably hate the trip. And there's no guarantee the destination is worth it.

 

[MrPixel]

Okay, fed, watered, and pilled the dog, so I'm back. As usual, an "Emily thread" has already spun out of control in mere minutes! (Great work, BTW! I love it when that happens!)

Yes, I am in control of my stories... to an extent. A lot transpires, however, from my subconscious mind. I'm cooking along, and three or so paragraphs later the fingers stop, and more than once my reaction has been, "Oh fuck. Where the hell did that come from?" Sometimes it fits the conscious flow and I let it run its course, sometimes it's, "No, we're not going there. <backspace><backspace><backspace>"

There are two issues with the novella I mentioned in the other thread, one of which is references to underage activity, which in this instance are key in terms of character development. There are certain juxtapositions in the parent-child conflicts during teen years in specific environments that define who these persons are. >18 adults do not magically emerge from cocoons with preordained and scripted characteristics, there are plausible explanations for personality traits.

Excising those from this particular work leaves gaping holes that can't be spackled-over. So it's going to sit in the can. I am using bits and pieces of the story (and characters) in a WIP tangential to another novella, but in that story line there's no need to go into the deep end of their personas.

In closing (Your Honor), I don't write to the rules. I write to the story. By far my stories are well within the rules, but in rare cases the artistry requires coloring outside of the lines. They look really good on the refrigerator, but I hide them when company comes over.

 

[StillStunned]

Overall I'd say I'm in charge of my stories. But once or twice I've started writing and realised that the story *needed* to go in a particular direction.

Ben's Big Mistake started out as a professor blackmailing a student for sex. I was writing in the first person, present tense, to see whether I could make it work. I was writing it for the internal conflict: he knows it's wrong, he knows it could have huge consequences, but he can't stop himself from doing it.

Quite early on, though, I discovered that the tension - the chief reason for using the present tense - would vanish as soon as he made his move. Unless... unless he discovers that the girl he's trying to blackmail is a transgender woman who then blackmails him.

This allowed me to keep up the internal conflict throughout, and justified writing in the present tense. But it was definitely a case of "if this story is written, this is the way it has to be."

On the other hand, my fifth chapter of The Rivals stubbornly refused to go where I wanted it to, like trying to thread a needle, until I started from scratch.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I write the story, but as it develops the characters have a say as well.
Ideas beget ideas and the story follows from that, but it needs to be consistent with the characters and their development. One of the biggest changes to my plan occurred because I started to write the final scene and just realized that my FMC wouldn't do what I had planned for her to do. It was consistent with the character I had initially envisioned, but not the one who was on paper now.

 

[Stimtheone]

On that original subject, I do feel like I had to "edit out" some things in my story. I write about casual sex worlds and the thing about them is that they contain children... so if you're fucking out on the streets with no concern to hide it, there gonna be kids seeing it. Hell, there's a planet called Redlight in the Empire that has people just not cover any interesting bit at all, walking around with tits, dicks and asses out. I have omitted any mention of children being there to see that, but you have to agree that children will possibly be there. People LIVE there. You don't just wall them off in some complex until they're 18. The good news was that none of the plot really was affected by it and I felt I could still offer it, but I can't post that short story a friend asked about how a day at school for these people is. But I write wholesome stories, so don't worry about them. Those kids are safer than ours.

There is a point at which a rule against anything may block a story or its central point. Yes, some merit that, but others may touch on it while delivering a completely new message. I do want to experiment with a place where I do not have to dance around those rules and possibly offer a much more honest story, though I don't feel like they would all absolutely be ruined by the current rules, which I do find to a measure to be acceptable... or I would not be here.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

 

[BBlaketbv]

Of course I get that. My point - not a judgmental one I hope - is that “the story demands to be written this way” is just a way of dissociating the author from the reality that “I want to write it this way.” It’s more palatable to blame an external agent, the story, your muse. In reality, no one is writing your story but you.

Em

Disassociating the autor from what they write. I think I get what you are trying to say. In that way I agree, it is always the decision and responsibility of the writer. What you write is done by you. You can think you get directions from some higher power or the voices in your head, but you type it, you made the story.
If the writer feels they are not in control, maybe they shouldn't publish it.

 

[Rob_Royale]

A few months ago, I'd have said, "Yes, I'm in control."
But a recent story I posted, I called it the literary equivalent of a wild pitch. The wind-up was good, and I had a good grip on the ball, but somewhere after that, it got away from me. The story was supposed to be about a really selfish mature woman who would take advantage of anyone to get what she wanted, including her own nephew, but the story became something loving and nurturing. I sat there reading over the first draft and was thinking to myself, "That's not where this was supposed to end up at all. What happened?"

My wife says that my own nature came out while I was writing, and there's probably some truth to that.

 

[SimonDoom]

I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I would be surprised if many people mean that mystical language literally. The Muse, the writing gods, the whims of the characters themselves, these are all just more fun ways of describing the subconscious, aren't they?

Monsters of the Id. The Krell are to blame.

 

[Paul_Chance]

This is me taking a discussion out of my positivity thread to somewhere more appropriate.

Some people refer to a story taking over. It needing to be told. It’s contents and plot taking on a life of its own.

Does this really happen, or do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?

For context, the original discussion was around whether or not it is possible to modify your writing to stick within Lit guidelines.

Em

Executive Summary:

Most of the time, I think I'm in full control. Sometimes, the Muse will take over and I won't be in full control, instead, I'll be along for the ride. Adhering to guidelines is no problem.

Detailed Analysis:

I tend to follow a certain process.

1. I get a general idea I want to write about. This can be a specific event, or a set pf characters, usually a combination of both.
2. I jot down a rough outline, generally in classic three act structure (for the length of fiction here).
3. At some point, I'll tighten the rough outline into a more formal plot structure and I'll write brief character sketches.
4. Then, when I have time to write, I'll sit down and write the story.
5. After I am finished, I'll edit the crap out it, using my available tools. I write in Word, so I use the tools there. Then I'll back up and make several passes at line editing (focusing on words, sentences, and paragraphs). At this point I might be adding or deleting entire scenes because they don't fit, or I want to expand on something).
6. Then I'll do a final read through (either reading it out loud, spoken by myself, or taking advantage of Word's Read Aloud feature.)
7. Then, it's cross my fingers and hit submit. (Fly little birdy, fly!) I may tap my beta readers here, but I've had mixed results with them on Lit.

Normally, this is the process and I feel like I am in complete control. But every now and then, the Muse will strike. She can strike anywhere, at any time.

1. Most often, she hits right here. A character or characters will spring almost fully formed in my mind and charge out onto the page. When this happens, it feels like a character appeared, slapped me in the head, and said, "Paul, write my story, let me tell you what happened."

2 & 3: This part is purely technical to me, so the Muse usually sits back and lets me do my work.

4. This is the second place the Muse will hit. I'll think I have the story under control and either one of the main characters will say, "Nope, that's not what happened, let me straighten you out here." At this point, characters can change, revealing hidden aspects, or the plot can take a sudden twist through unexpected events. I decide whether to follow the muse and let the story morph or herd the cats back into line. Also at this point, a minor character can come barging into the story and say, "Nope, this is my story bitches, stand aside."

5, 6, and 7: Again, we're back to the purely technical tasks, so the Muse will leave me alone. Every once in a while, she'll peek in, but usually to gather tidbits for another, different story.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The closest I've come to running afoul of the rules involved a bit in a story where I wanted some high school boys to try and be flirtatious with the FMC, more as establishing her personality. It wouldn't have been anything more than a failed pass, but I decided to forgo it out of an abundance of caution.

 

[Euphony]

Does this really happen, or do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?

Writing is an expression of the human mind. So it inherently has both autonomy and surrender in the system.

When authors want to flex ego/free will vibes, they talk up that portion of the process. When they are into surrender (to the muse, craft, some ethereal part of themselves) they fixate on that part of the process.

Writing is as complex as humanity (as it is an extension of said humanity) so it should be similarly tricky to define let alone corral when and how we want in the moment we want it. Especially if we are in crisis.

For context, the original discussion was around whether or not it is possible to modify your writing to stick within Lit guidelines.

Both.

These discussions always make me think of fellow AHers who have experience profound trauma that needs to be worked through if the bearer is ever to be even close to whole again. Many of these traumas aren't fit for print here but it doesn't make the artist some devant celebrator of terrible humans mistreating other humans.

If you've ever experience chronic trauma, you know there can be no consideration of "best way to get through it." IF you only find a way to SURVIVE, you have already imposed more will on it than it allows most to. I hope every writer here has a "writing through my monsters" drawer. I think it's far healthier than bottling shit up or ignoring it like it doesn't exist. That is playing into trauma's hands.

So the matter becomes "why must it be published?" I clearly reserve those writing "therapies" for only myself but empathy makes me consider there are experiences and traumas I don't understand, that DEMAND been seen or heard in the light of day as a key part of the healing process.

I want that option available for authors up until the point where it becomes detrimental to other Lit'ers, especially contributing authors.

And that is always the thing with any freedom. Establishing where one person's line begins naturally establishes where another person's ends.

Lit squabbles are very different context from the norm but really no different. People just trying to live a healthy existence using whatever tools they have to get there.

 

[djrip]

Commentator: "He's driving the ball down the field like a man possessed!"

This thread: "But, not like, really possessed. It's just him, right?"

 

[Euphony]

Commentator: "He's driving the ball down the field like a man possessed!"

This thread: "But, not like, really possessed. It's just him, right?"

Have you MET Lit?

 

[djrip]

Have you MET Lit?

That's unsportsmanlike gameplay.

 

[Comshaw]

This is me taking a discussion out of my positivity thread to somewhere more appropriate.

Some people refer to a story taking over. It needing to be told. It’s contents and plot taking on a life of its own.

Does this really happen, or do we not - as authors - have full control over what we write and how we write it?

For context, the original discussion was around whether or not it is possible to modify your writing to stick within Lit guidelines.

Em

Do we have full control over what we write? Is there someone holding a gun to our heads, an alien with a mind control ray aimed at our cranium demanding we write a certain way, or are we free to change it at will? If we are free to change it at will, then we have full control over what goes down in writing.

What authors mean when they insist "the story took over" is that their subconscious mind is pushing them in a particular direction. Our conscious mind develops plots, characters and relationships. Our subconscious mind and imagination breathes life into those pieces, forging and forming a story, a character breathing life into them from the foggy reaches of our own minds.

There are times when logic and reason should prevail. Times when those things must be used to establish law, justice, equality and freedom.

There are other times that we should allow our imagination and subconscious minds full rein. Allow them to run free, to show us worlds that are contained deep inside our own heads. Listen and you might hear a voice calling from way back in the shadows of your subconscious, a voice of a character that needs to come out into the light. It isn't just crazy people who hear voices in their heads. If it were every author who ever existed would be included.



Comshaw

 

[EmilyMiller]

I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I would be surprised if many people mean that mystical language literally. The Muse, the writing gods, the whims of the characters themselves, these are all just more fun ways of describing the subconscious, aren't they?

Yes. But “the story tells itself” - in the context of staying between guardrails - seems to be blaming someone other than the author.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Do we have full control over what we write? Is there someone holding a gun to our heads, an alien with a mind control ray aimed at our cranium demanding we write a certain way, or are we free to change it at will? If we are free to change it at will, then we have full control over what goes down in writing.

What authors mean when they insist "the story took over" is that their subconscious mind is pushing them in a particular direction. Our conscious mind develops plots, characters and relationships. Our subconscious mind and imagination breathes life into those pieces, forging and forming a story, a character breathing life into them from the foggy reaches of our own minds.

There are times when logic and reason should prevail. Times when those things must be used to establish law, justice, equality and freedom.

There are other times that we should allow our imagination and subconscious minds full rein. Allow them to run free, to show us worlds that are contained deep inside our own heads. Listen and you might hear a voice calling from way back in the shadows of your subconscious, a voice of a character that needs to come out into the light. It isn't just crazy people who hear voices in their heads. If it were every author who ever existed would be included.



Comshaw

I agree - but the author’s subconscious is still the author. This is my point.

Em

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes. But “the story tells itself” - in the context of staying between guardrails - seems to be blaming someone other than the author.

Em

I think it's more a matter of different metaphors being useful to different people. I'm not so sure that there's something "really happening" that is that different from one author to the author. But people like having different ways of looking at things. Some people see writing, or art in general, as a completely different domain. I think of writing a story as like building a chair. It's a craft. It doesn't help me to think of it in mystical terms. My brain just doesn't think that way.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I don't think I ever feel like I lose control of the story I'm writing, but the way I like to think about it is that sometimes a favorable wind has picked up that'll take me in the direction I want to go. I'm still in control, so to speak, but I'm also at the mercy of the wind.
When a story feels like it's going nowhere, it's like I'm on a steam boat having to constantly shovel coal to get the damn thing moving. I might get to the end but I'll probably hate the trip. And there's no guarantee the destination is worth it.

Agree with that

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

I think it's more a matter of different metaphors being useful to different people. I'm not so sure that there's something "really happening" that is that different from one author to the author. But people like having different ways of looking at things. Some people see writing, or art in general, as a completely different domain. I think of writing a story as like building a chair. It's a craft. It doesn't help me to think of it in mystical terms. My brain just doesn't think that way.

We really have to stop agreeing in public, Simon .

Em

 

[samhasstories]

Yes. But “the story tells itself” - in the context of staying between guardrails - seems to be blaming someone other than the author.

Em

I suppose if you're using it in the sense of abdicating responsibility, then yes. "It's not my fault, my subconscious did it" is pretty thin.

 

[Stimtheone]

I suppose if you're using it in the sense of abdicating responsibility, then yes. "It's not my fault, my subconscious did it" is pretty thin.

"You are all those glands, unless you claim my thyroid is to blame." - The Courier to their own brain

 

[djrip]

I suppose if you're using it in the sense of abdicating responsibility, then yes. "It's not my fault, my subconscious did it" is pretty thin.

No one is doing that. No one is saying "something else made me do it." Some people are saying "when I write it feels like the story is guiding me" or similar. Regarding lit rules, some are saying "the story I'm telling doesn't work within lit's rules, and I'd rather tell the story as i envision it than change it to fit."

 

[Zootonius]

I had to think about this a bit. In the end, yes, I'm in control. But even that is constrained. Once I created the characters, their character sets some guardrail. Similar with the plot, once in motion, it's not going to veer too far of. And something I find the characters guiding the plot in ways I didn't initially plan.