Is "smut" a synonym for "erotica?"

[SimonDoom]

I have used the term "smut" in this forum to describe erotica, usually for light-hearted, smart-ass, or comic effect. I don't get hung up on definitions but in general I don't intentionally use pejorative terms to describe sexual expression. I don't think of it that way. I use it somewhat ironically.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Also, y'all have way more specific definitions than I do. I use the term "smut" as a catchall for visual and written erotic material, without positive or negative connotations. Erotica as a term has connotations of either quality or pretentions thereof, and porn feels like a lowbrow term, but smut includes the good and the bad as long as it would offend a Puritan.

Same. It can be a pejorative but used that way, it sounds so old-fashioned that it's hard to take seriously. I mostly use it as a neutral term for my own work that doesn't carry the posh connotations of "erotica".

Tom Lehrer was celebrating "smut" back in the 1960s:

 

[AG31]

I have used the term "smut" in this forum to describe erotica, usually for light-hearted, smart-ass, or comic effect. I don't get hung up on definitions but in general I don't intentionally use pejorative terms to describe sexual expression. I don't think of it that way. I use it somewhat ironically.

Excellent!!! Just excellent. See my Thank you reply below.

 

[AG31]

Pretty much this, for me. Erotica has lace and lingerie, smut has a new pair of panties, porn has nothing at all.

Aptly said!

 

[AG31]

Thank you all! Thank you for giving me a solid, satisfying answer to my three year long question, “Is smut widely used as a “neutral” synonym for “erotica?” I didn’t use “neutral” in the OP, but I now realize I should have.

I can dispense with the slight, nagging sense that I should learn to use “smut,” or, at least, not cringe when I encounter it. I will now feel free to cringe, even though a couple of you chose “smut” to be neutral as compared with high quality or pretentious erotica.

"Smut” can, indeed, be a synonym for all erotica, but usually only when there is the implication that all erotica is “naughty.” That’s a word that’s been eluding me for a long time. Tonight it kept me awake, I was so excited to have finally hit upon it. I had to get up an write this down so I could get to sleep.

I don’t agree that erotica is inherently naughty, although I can appreciate those that take delight in reading and writing naughty things.

“Smut” can also refer to erotica that is at the lower end of the quality spectrum. The problem for me here is that “quality” is very often equated with competent attention to plot and character. I don’t agree that those are essential for “quality,” but that’s for another time.

Anyway, thanks again. This forum has collected a wonderful group of people who are eager to engage in discussion!

 

[AG31]

Also, y'all have way more specific definitions than I do. I use the term "smut" as a catchall for visual and written erotic material, without positive or negative connotations. Erotica as a term has connotations of either quality or pretentions thereof, and porn feels like a lowbrow term, but smut includes the good and the bad as long as it would offend a Puritan.

I'll try to keep your name in mind as someone for whom "smut" is the neutral term and "erotica," the more narrowly defined. In other words, I'll try not to cringe if you're the one using "smut."

 

[AG31]

One may as well ask, is fucking a synonym for lovemaking? Well, that depends on who you are. Is love the same thing as like? Again, that depends on who you are. Some guys and gals can't say I love you. It isn't part of their makeup, and I like you a lot is as close as they come. Words are what they are depending on A, who says them, and B, who hears them. Am I wise or wiseass? Yes, yes, I am.

Very well said!

 

[AG31]

I can't recall having used either 'smut' or 'erotica'.

I'd define 'smut' as writing to appeal only to the prurient interest ie: a morbid or shameful interest in sex, and 'erotica' as the foregoing but with some redeeming literary or artistic value.

If you see me use these terms, you'll know what I mean. If you see others use these terms, they may be as precise but mean something quite different, a la Humpty Dumpty.

Can you explain what you mean by "morbid" and "prurient" and "shameful?" Honest question. I agree that these terms are often implied in discussions about writing that is designed to provoke arousal in the reader. But why should that be those "naughty" things?

 

[XerXesXu]

Some say that it's the 'taboo' quality that gives sexually explicit literature it's 'sizzle'. No 'sizzle', no interest.

 

[HordHolm]

One may as well ask, is fucking a synonym for lovemaking? Well, that depends on who you are. Is love the same thing as like? Again, that depends on who you are. Some guys and gals can't say I love you. It isn't part of their makeup, and I like you a lot is as close as they come. Words are what they are depending on A, who says them, and B, who hears them. Am I wise or wiseass? Yes, yes, I am.

I think this rather draws the line under the discussion. As does that lovely English expression, "horses for courses."

 

[AG31]

Some say that it's the 'taboo' quality that gives sexually explicit literature it's 'sizzle'. No 'sizzle', no interest.

Yes, that's helpful. "Taboo" Although fewer and fewer things are confined to that category anymore. But wouldn't you agree that there's lots of erotica that is not about "taboo" subjects? Anymore it seems to just cover incest, bestiality and snuff.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes, that's helpful. "Taboo" Although fewer and fewer things are confined to that category anymore. But wouldn't you agree that there's lots of erotica that is not about "taboo" subjects? Anymore it seems to just cover incest, bestiality and snuff.

Not at all. "Taboo" is in the mind of the reader. Many categories here retain a taboo quality. Exhibitionism, for example, is taboo, to the extent it still is illegal or immoral to expose oneself in public. This is why a story about someone walking naked down a public street is far more erotic than a story about someone walking around naked at a nudist resort. Anal is taboo to some people. Age differences are taboo. Fetishes have a taboo quality.

I usually find erotic stories have more enjoyable sizzle when they feature some element of the forbidden.

 

[Bamagan]

I concur with Simon for the most part.
As an aside, I'd say that 'western' cultures have eased certain taboos in the last few generations, but others have gotten stronger. Interracial and homosexual relationships are more widely accepted now, but there are obviously segments of society that still consider them taboo (or worse). Meanwhile, a certain kind of 'maledom' relationship has become generally less acceptable, where they extort sexual favors from women. It may have always been taboo, but most people looked the other way for a long time and allowed it to happen. It's harder to get away with for a variety of reasons, but at the root, a lot of people stopped tolerating it.
So I think it's not so much that taboos are going away, just that things are getting reshuffled every so often.

 

[SimonDoom]

I concur with Simon for the most part.
As an aside, I'd say that 'western' cultures have eased certain taboos in the last few generations, but others have gotten stronger. Interracial and homosexual relationships are more widely accepted now, but there are obviously segments of society that still consider them taboo (or worse). Meanwhile, a certain kind of 'maledom' relationship has become generally less acceptable, where they extort sexual favors from women. It may have always been taboo, but most people looked the other way for a long time and allowed it to happen. It's harder to get away with for a variety of reasons, but at the root, a lot of people stopped tolerating it.
So I think it's not so much that taboos are going away, just that things are getting reshuffled every so often.

There's another element to this, which is that even where taboos are eroding, when it comes to fantasy play many people enjoy preserving them in their fantasy space. It's uncomfortable for many people to acknowledge or accept it, but it's undeniably true. A good example is interracial fantasy. Or rape fantasy. My sense is that interracial fantasy has gone through a weird evolution to the point that it is unacceptable by progressive people to consider interracial sex taboo, and that is precisely what makes the FANTASY taboo, which creates a whole new layer of taboo to exploit. You can easily find kink sites where large numbers of white women say they want to be fucked by black men and black men say they want to fuck white women. They play on "BBC" traditional stereotypes. Are these people actually racist in their daily lives? I don't know, but I have no reason to believe they are. I believe many people find it erotically satisfying to traffic in the forbidden, whatever that forbidden thing is.

So, I generally agree with your notion that taboo isn't going away so much as being reshuffled.

 

[AG31]

Not at all. "Taboo" is in the mind of the reader. Many categories here retain a taboo quality. Exhibitionism, for example, is taboo, to the extent it still is illegal or immoral to expose oneself in public. This is why a story about someone walking naked down a public street is far more erotic than a story about someone walking around naked at a nudist resort. Anal is taboo to some people. Age differences are taboo. Fetishes have a taboo quality.

I usually find erotic stories have more enjoyable sizzle when they feature some element of the forbidden.

All true.

 

[yowser]

There's another element to this, which is that even where taboos are eroding, when it comes to fantasy play many people enjoy preserving them in their fantasy space. It's uncomfortable for many people to acknowledge or accept it, but it's undeniably true. A good example is interracial fantasy. Or rape fantasy. My sense is that interracial fantasy has gone through a weird evolution to the point that it is unacceptable by progressive people to consider interracial sex taboo, and that is precisely what makes the FANTASY taboo, which creates a whole new layer of taboo to exploit. You can easily find kink sites where large numbers of white women say they want to be fucked by black men and black men say they want to fuck white women. They play on "BBC" traditional stereotypes. Are these people actually racist in their daily lives? I don't know, but I have no reason to believe they are. I believe many people find it erotically satisfying to traffic in the forbidden, whatever that forbidden thing is.

So, I generally agree with your notion that taboo isn't going away so much as being reshuffled.

Well said. And sizzle is good in stories. A discussion on the prohibited:

I continued. 'You said you read Augustine's Confessions?' She nodded. 'You remember what he said about pears?'

She smiled thinly. 'Yes, as a boy he stole pears from his neighbour's tree. He said that a stolen pear always tasted sweeter than one gained by more legitimate means.'

'That is the difference between fornicating and copulating. The former is always superior.' I looked at her, thinking how delectable it had been to first ravish her, make her body quiver with lust, flood her with spawn. And then do it again, and again.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well said. And sizzle is good in stories. A discussion on the prohibited:

I continued. 'You said you read Augustine's Confessions?' She nodded. 'You remember what he said about pears?'

She smiled thinly. 'Yes, as a boy he stole pears from his neighbour's tree. He said that a stolen pear always tasted sweeter than one gained by more legitimate means.'

'That is the difference between fornicating and copulating. The former is always superior.' I looked at her, thinking how delectable it had been to first ravish her, make her body quiver with lust, flood her with spawn. And then do it again, and again.

Well put!

 

[Codoc24]

I see, that's supposed to be the General Lee from The Dukes of Hazzard. If the show was made today, they'd never get away with naming it after a Confederate General or painting a Confederate flag on the roof. A 1969 Dodge Charger, by the way. Did they wreck one in the show, or did that happen later?

I read once that they crashed many, many of those Chargers during the show's run. I forget now how many it said they totaled.

 

[Codoc24]

I use smut and erotica interchangeably quite a bit. If I really had to say what it is that I write. I would call it Erotic Romance. But then even as a progressive, slightly old fashioned male, it's kind of embarrassing to say I write "Romance." So "smut" sounds more manly.

 

[gunhilltrain]

They wrecked about 300 of them. The show actually had to switch to using similar cars in later seasons.

I thought I replied to this yesterday, but I guess I didn't complete it. So this is not on topic, but in the 1980's it must have been easy to buy old Dodges and paint them orange. Forty years later, cars from the '60's and '70's are rarer and not so disposable.

 

[MillieDynamite]

These days, when a car, classic or otherwise, has to meet an untimely end in a TV show or movie, it's either a fiberglass body on a frame or done digitally. In the '70s, when they did the TV show Search, Hugh O'Brian lamented the destruction of a 1960 stand-in Caddy for a new one that was blown up by a bomb. Apparently, Mr. O'Brian was a car aficionado, and hated to see any of them damaged.

I thought I replied to this yesterday, but I guess I didn't complete it. So this is not on topic, but in the 1980's it must have been easy to buy old Dodges and paint them orange. Forty years later, cars from the '60's and '70's are rarer and not so disposable.

 

[gunhilltrain]

These days, when a car, classic or otherwise, has to meet an untimely end in a TV show or movie, it's either a fiberglass body on a frame or done digitally. In the '70s, when they did the TV show Search, Hugh O'Brian lamented the destruction of a 1960 stand-in Caddy for a new one that was blown up by a bomb. Apparently, Mr. O'Brian was a car aficionado, and hated to see any of them damaged.

I think that car in the Once Upon a Time America clip was real (it was nearly forty years ago). Since it went into salt water, I doubt it could be salvaged. The car shot up in Bonnie and Clyde (a Ford, I think) may have been real too. But it was only about thirty-two years old at the time. Now it would be close to a hundred. Time moves on. Actually, it says here that it was a "replica," so maybe it is just a mock-up. That would explain why it wasn't moving (which the car in 1934 was) during the filming.

Sorry, AG31, this thread has really drifted.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bonnie_and_Clyde_Movie_Car.JPG

 

[MillieDynamite]

My Bad as well AG31.

 

[gunhilltrain]

My Bad as well AG31.

Actually, it was Euphony who started it by bringing up The Dukes of Hazzard. But don't feel bad, Euphony, because I've done that many times myself.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Oh, I put a quarter on the tracks often and derailed many a thread just chugging until it hit my obstacle.

Actually, it was Euphony who started it by bringing up The Dukes of Hazzard. But don't feel bad, Euphony, because I've done that many times myself.