Bistro Bijou

[unpredictablebijou]

Heyyy sweet pea what's the matter dont bother hating them they hopefully disappear up their own backsides eventually........ theres someone on here the same and I sat here this morning thinking sanctimonious old git lol !!

Well said, darlin'.

I try really hard at times like this to think of ways to feel compassion and forgiveness and all that shit. But today I'm just not managing. It may have something to do with the fact that todays task is doing a special order necklace that involves stringing 36 inches worth of teency-weency very brittle amber chips.
My eyes are already crossing and I've only got about a foot done.

It's a sad fact that there are people in the world who seem to have nothing better to do than snark and bitch and hate and try to start conflict. Perhaps the only mantra I can offer about that today is:

Thank the gods I'm not you, and have an actual life, real love and many reasons to be happy. I'd pray for your life to get better, but you wouldn't know real happiness if it sat on your face and wiggled, so why bother?

Let's have a SillyBitch Venting festival Swapmeet today. We all have at least one Silly Bitch who's bunching our panties at the moment, it seems. So I'll trade someone my personal Assface SillyBitch Waste of Oxygen issue for theirs, and so on. It's always easier to not take problems too seriously if they belong to someone else.

Anything that might cause controversy can be vented about in PM of course.

Who's in? You can vent to me, and I'll vent to someone else, and they'll vent to you, and so on. Let it all hang out, baptize yourself and be done with your personal SillyBitch issue. Those people deserve no power anyway, right?

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

I wonder if it's the same one ?!

no doubt.

It doesn't matter. The abuse of the masses is not likely to be addressed. Therefore, we'll keep losing poets who mistakenly thought this was a safe place to learn and grow,

 

[unpredictablebijou]

no, not authors. poets, actually.

I guess that pretty much deflates your gusto for revenge. It's fine. They moved this thread here, so I guess I'll still have one forum that's not shrouded in negativity.

My story didn't post yet. Other authors have commented on the unusual delay in posting contest entries. That doesn't bother me though. I know it will be soon. You'll probably enjoy my new story because it's an actual parody of one of our favorite shows.

Poets?

Lemme at 'em.

bj

 

[Safe_Bet]

no doubt.

It doesn't matter. The abuse of the masses is not likely to be addressed. Therefore, we'll keep losing poets who mistakenly thought this was a safe place to learn and grow,

Yup.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

My trouble is (well most times) very flippant thoughts dash through my mind and I have to bite my lip and sit on my hands not to post it. I do tend to see the funny side of things often when it's not supposed to be funny or when someone is being very sanctimonious and I wish I had the same guts to shoot them down when I know damn well they wouldn't think twice about doing it to me or some other poor soul who happens to come in sight. I've seen it happen and had it directed at me and I think what gives you the right to be so forth right and hurtful when a kinder word would suffice. So I vote we ignore this wally and carry on learning and posting while we learn I for one won't let him win !!

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Okay, trying to get some perspective.

In some cases (and I'm going to try REALLY HARD not to be specific here) there is a general attitude of snark in a whole area, in which case yes, there's a systemic problem. Whether or not anyone can do anything about it is another matter entirely - this board is in fact about free speech, and if you want to see that policy truly in action just go scroll through the General Board. On the one hand, it's pretty awful, but on the other hand, take away people's right to speak and you lose America.

But if it's just one or two morons, as opposed to a generalized policy of cruelty and bitchiness, then it's easy enough to see where the problem lies. That's what the ignore button is for.

There will always be morons with just enough brain activity to type, and there will always be Wastes of Flesh who are so hungry for attention they do nothing but try to start conflict. Taking away the attention takes the power away from them, and that's the only real answer. Attention is energy, and no one who behaves badly deserves my energy or yours.

Let's pay attention to each other. WE deserve it.

bj

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Have just gone into attack mode .....omg what have I done I am shaking like a leaf !

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Have just gone into attack mode .....omg what have I done I am shaking like a leaf !

You're adorable when you're angry.

In scrolling around, I think I've deduced the issue.

Please. A laxative would clear that right up, don't you think? Not worth getting all het up about. Seriously. That's been like that for EVER, and really, that's what the ignore function is for.

arf. arf arf arf arf! (Wish you could actually hear my angry poodle imitation. It's really good. Ask loststar - she's heard it.)

bj

 

[UnderYourSpell]

He upset Lady and it won't do

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

My trouble is (well most times) very flippant thoughts dash through my mind and I have to bite my lip and sit on my hands not to post it. I do tend to see the funny side of things often when it's not supposed to be funny or when someone is being very sanctimonious and I wish I had the same guts to shoot them down when I know damn well they wouldn't think twice about doing it to me or some other poor soul who happens to come in sight. I've seen it happen and had it directed at me and I think what gives you the right to be so forth right and hurtful when a kinder word would suffice. So I vote we ignore this wally and carry on learning and posting while we learn I for one won't let him win !!

your trouble? hardly. I admire you. UYS- Defender of All That is Decent
Now, it would be a different story if you answered with, "You're such a bitch" or some such nonsense.

And, bj, I totally agree with your point about freedom of speech. I don't have to agree with something someone says. I don't have to like it. In fact, I can hate it. But, no one has the right to abuse others. There is a line, and it was crossed.

I loved the ghazal thread. It felt like Sassy and the other poets who participated were learning right beside me. Unless I see this issue publically addressed, I doubt that I'd ever feel free to share in that forum again. If that means that someone has to take over my New Poem Review day, then so be it. A public apology from the poet or the moderators for letting that poet's actions go unchecked for so long would suffice. Even just publically addressing the issue at hand might be okay. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

He upset Lady and it won't do

No indeed. But there's really no curing that particular rectal-cranial inversion. It's congenital, and they haven't found a cure.

That's a pointless mosquito and best ignored.

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

You're adorable when you're angry.

In scrolling around, I think I've deduced the issue.

Please. A laxative would clear that right up, don't you think? Not worth getting all het up about. Seriously. That's been like that for EVER, and really, that's what the ignore function is for.

arf. arf arf arf arf! (Wish you could actually hear my angry poodle imitation. It's really good. Ask loststar - she's heard it.)

bj

The ignore button is pathetic. Yes, it hides the posts from that poet, but it also hides the threads started by that individual. Also, people end up quoting the offensive individual anyway. I was going to do 30 in 30 again, but the companion thread was a nice supplement to that. I'll just do it on my own. I think it's better to avoid the site of the crash until it's been cleansed.

 

[Safe_Bet]

No indeed. But there's really no curing that particular rectal-cranial inversion. It's congenital, and they haven't found a cure.

That's a pointless mosquito and best ignored.

bj

Thank you Ms. Neville Chamberlain.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

He upset Lady and it won't do

No indeed. But there's really no curing that particular rectal-cranial inversion. It's congenital, and they haven't found a cure.

That's a pointless mosquito and best ignored.

bj

You guys are so sweet.

But this isn't just about me. It's about every poet, the ones who were participating and any poet who read that post. Can you imagine new poets reading that post and deciding that sharing their poetry with us is not worth the risk of abuse?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

your trouble? hardly. I admire you. UYS- Defender of All That is Decent
Now, it would be a different story if you answered with, "You're such a bitch" or some such nonsense.

And, bj, I totally agree with your point about freedom of speech. I don't have to agree with something someone says. I don't have to like it. In fact, I can hate it. But, no one has the right to abuse others. There is a line, and it was crossed.

I loved the ghazal thread. It felt like Sassy and the other poets who participated were learning right beside me. Unless I see this issue publically addressed, I doubt that I'd ever feel free to share in that forum again. If that means that someone has to take over my New Poem Review day, then so be it. A public apology from the poet or the moderators for letting that poet's actions go unchecked for so long would suffice. Even just publically addressing the issue at hand might be okay. I'm not holding my breath.

Not gonna happen. Although I volunteer to personally apologize, cause what the hell, somebody should, it really won't do any good.

For one thing, everyone has a right to be an asshole. It's sad but it's true.
For another thing, there have been far more vicious and idiotic people here in the past and there's really nothing that can be done except ignore them. At least in this case there's a bit of a knowledge base and the potential for good critique.

Check this thread as an example of what goes on here. What you won't see since there's been some editing is some additional very ad hominem silliness I had to endure for even stepping in.

And in fact there was some reasonable work done in there, after all the hoohah had died down.

Now as a contrast, check this thread. And this one.

Free motherfuckin' speech. It sucks, and it sometimes really really sucks, but there it is.

Now then. Aren't you glad you're in the relatively safe and kind confines of the PFD? It's way way worse elsewhere, as you know.

But this isn't just about me. It's about every poet, the ones who were participating and any poet who read that post. Can you imagine new poets reading that post and deciding that sharing their poetry with us is not worth the risk of abuse?

it's a risk we all take. But part of learning the craft is learning whose critique to take seriously. We can't pad the walls or no one would learn anything. I'd love to have a forum that was free from idiocy, but I just don't think it's possible. The only answer I've ever come up with is to at least start the Bistro, in which the ONLY law is "BE KIND" and even that has been violated once or twice. Happily I was the only real victim in that case and I can handle it. But frankly, if someone decided to come in here and take a shit all over my thread, I wouldn't be able to stop them, nor would anyone else.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It has happened to me too. A lot. But our best choice is always to move forward, keep doing the right thing and refuse to give attention to abusers. That's the best, and the only, real answer.



bj

 

[Homburg]

Stop! Haiku Time...

*dances in Hammer Pants*

--

Soft breeze plays witness
Flutter by sweet butterfly
Flicker on the wind

--

Red, gold, trees alight
Autumn sets the leaves ablaze
Breeze makes firefall

--

Breeze moves joyfully
She steals my cap and chuckles
Leaves with her secrets

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

I wouldn't step foot in the GB forum.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I need to go pick up my paintings.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Yay for Hommie in hammer pants! YAY!

Y'know, it's funny, the BDSM board, where I occasionally hang and lurk, is one of the most conflict-free areas on Lit. Yes, there have been occasional outbursts and the odd troll-monster who's just in there to be stupid, but for the most part it's less snarky and cliquish than anywhere else around here.

It's only theory, but here's what I think:

Once you move into defining yourself as kinky, you quickly learn to avoid judging others lest you are judged yourself.

Kinky folk tend to examine issues of power-over, powerlessness and power exchange in pretty straightforward ways. They own their shit, and they work it out on the rack and the punishment cross, in formalized settings, which is where that power issue crap belongs, and can actually be healed properly.

Just a theory. What do you think?

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Not gonna happen. Although I volunteer to personally apologize, cause what the hell, somebody should, it really won't do any good.

For one thing, everyone has a right to be an asshole. It's sad but it's true.
For another thing, there have been far more vicious and idiotic people here in the past and there's really nothing that can be done except ignore them. At least in this case there's a bit of a knowledge base and the potential for good critique.

Check this thread as an example of what goes on here. What you won't see since there's been some editing is some additional very ad hominem silliness I had to endure for even stepping in.

And in fact there was some reasonable work done in there, after all the hoohah had died down.

Now as a contrast, check this thread. And this one.

Free motherfuckin' speech. It sucks, and it sometimes really really sucks, but there it is.

Now then. Aren't you glad you're in the relatively safe and kind confines of the PFD? It's way way worse elsewhere, as you know.



it's a risk we all take. But part of learning the craft is learning whose critique to take seriously. We can't pad the walls or no one would learn anything. I'd love to have a forum that was free from idiocy, but I just don't think it's possible. The only answer I've ever come up with is to at least start the Bistro, in which the ONLY law is "BE KIND" and even that has been violated once or twice. Happily I was the only real victim in that case and I can handle it. But frankly, if someone decided to come in here and take a shit all over my thread, I wouldn't be able to stop them, nor would anyone else.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It has happened to me too. A lot. But our best choice is always to move forward, keep doing the right thing and refuse to give attention to abusers. That's the best, and the only, real answer.



bj

Yay for Hommie in hammer pants! YAY!

Y'know, it's funny, the BDSM board, where I occasionally hang and lurk, is one of the most conflict-free areas on Lit. Yes, there have been occasional outbursts and the odd troll-monster who's just in there to be stupid, but for the most part it's less snarky and cliquish than anywhere else around here.

It's only theory, but here's what I think:

Once you move into defining yourself as kinky, you quickly learn to avoid judging others lest you are judged yourself.

Kinky folk tend to examine issues of power-over, powerlessness and power exchange in pretty straightforward ways. They own their shit, and they work it out on the rack and the punishment cross, in formalized settings, which is where that power issue crap belongs, and can actually be healed properly.

Just a theory. What do you think?

bj

I agree with you about BDSM folks. I think they are less likely to be power-hungry, egomaniac assholes on a forum. They do own their shit.

But wouldn't you expect a real poet to do the same? Don't poets examine the world, philosophy, and themselves then flip them over and examine each from different perspectives? Am I wrong? Shouldn't they, and the insight that they intuitively have, be held even more accountable?

Seems as if everyone rushes to support this poet when they hold other poets accountable for poetic infractions, but nobody dares hold this poet accountable for abusing others. When this poet bites someone, everyone claims that it is for his target's own good.. that they will learn and grow. Then, the people that look the other way, aren't they doing an injustice to this poet for not holding him accountable for his shit? Where's his opportunity to learn and grow?

Moving away from the specific, and more into the real world.. do you really think we should stop expecting better from people than hatred? Do you think we should all adopt and attitude of "well, it was like this for a long time, it's never going to change, so just leave it alone"? I smell the attitude of WWII. Why should we accept less than decency?

Now, I'll own my shit. I'm a hurt soul. I only go into public when I absolutely have to. The world is not safe. And, quite frankly, I'm tired of getting hurt. I'm tired of feeling other people's hurt. I'm tired. So, I'm just going to stay in my bedroom with my laptop, aisle, and paints and recover the best way that I know how.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

But wouldn't you expect a real poet to do the same? Don't poets examine the world, philosophy, and themselves then flip them over and examine each from different perspectives? Am I wrong? Shouldn't they, and the insight that they intuitively have, be held even more accountable?

heh heh. Sure. But really, that sort of activity is not what creates a poet. What makes a poet is a sincere, overwhelming fascination with one's own personal navel and the complete confidence that everyone will agree that it is the most beautiful, most poignant, most meaningful and most impressively tragic navel in the whole wide world.

If a writer manages to move beyond that, and actually examine the world around them, they're more likely to be capable of offering intelligent critique.

Most poetry is navel-based, as is most critique, however thoroughly educated in Dead White Men of the 19th Century, and however couched it is in fancy terminology about form and meaning.

Seems as if everyone rushes to support this poet when they hold other poets accountable for poetic infractions, but nobody dares hold this poet accountable for abusing others. When this poet bites someone, everyone claims that it is for his target's own good.. that they will learn and grow. Then, the people that look the other way, aren't they doing an injustice to this poet for not holding him accountable for his shit? Where's his opportunity to learn and grow?

First of all, beg to differ. No one defends abusers here, and more than once I at least have tried to step in and say something. Here's the problem:

There's no motherfucking point.

Sorry.

I've tried. I linked you to a sample thread in which I did exactly what you're talking about. So please don't go the 'everyone' and 'no one' route. Some of us do give a shit. But really, there's no point.

You have to choose your own policy and your own approach here, and you have to let others do the same. It's the only realistic answer.

Moving away from the specific, and more into the real world.. do you really think we should stop expecting better from people than hatred? Do you think we should all adopt and attitude of "well, it was like this for a long time, it's never going to change, so just leave it alone"? I smell the attitude of WWII. Why should we accept less than decency?

Well of course not. No one's arguing for acceptance. The argument is merely to stop validating abuse by attending to it and being hurt by it. Someone shouting obscenities in an empty room hurts only himself, and you may not stop him from doing so, but you have a choice to leave the room. Hence the advice to ignore, which is functionally the same. But I also know that I can't make anyone change. I can only change myself.

When I am Empress of the World, I will of course force personal growth on everyone. Until then, I have only limited power.

Baby, really. Take it from a moderately Old Fart. Let it go, move forward, and focus on the people worth your attention.

Lookit the new thread. I tried. I did my damnedest. It's all I can do. No one's going to change, nothing will change at all, but I pissed into the wind just for you, baby. That proves that I'm worth more attention than your abusers, right?

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

First of all, beg to differ. No one defends abusers here, and more than once I at least have tried to step in and say something. Here's the problem:

There's no motherfucking point.

Sorry.

I've tried. I linked you to a sample thread in which I did exactly what you're talking about. So please don't go the 'everyone' and 'no one' route. Some of us do give a shit. But really, there's no point.

You have to choose your own policy and your own approach here, and you have to let others do the same. It's the only realistic answer.


bj

You're right. I should not have used "everyone" and "no one" in my post. But, it really should not have been in yours either. All-or-nothing thinking is a personal flaw of mine. Thank you for pointing it out.

And you are right about having a personal policy..
My policy is that since I'm *NOT* strong enough to deal with abuse, to myself or others, at this time, I will avoid that thread.

 

[Sara Crewe]

Words on a screen people. They hurt as much as you let 'em.


I say Homburg comes back in his hammer pants and dances more.

I'll stand behind him and accidentally pull them down.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

You're right. I should not have used "everyone" and "no one" in my post. But, it really should not have been in yours either. All-or-nothing thinking is a personal flaw of mine. Thank you for pointing it out.

And you are right about having a personal policy..
My policy is that since I'm strong enough to deal with abuse, to myself or others, at this time, I will avoid that thread.

You stood beside me when I needed you I don't forget those favours besides which he pissed me off too ........ nothing has been said in reply yet perhaps I am to be ignored lol he's found out before this blonde has teeth and bites .......

 

[Sara Crewe]

I can't get the idea of fragile amber chips outta my head.

Once again proving that I am a jewelery junkie.


Can we see pics, BJ?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Wouldn't be any good for me if they are fragile ... I drop things