Broken Hearted - my online Dom is furious with me

[Netzach]

We are talking here about a relationship, not about the criminal code.

If you are dicking around with a married woman and you're really in favor of her getting it on with her husband unless you're not, I think that's kind of fucked up for you.

 

[Homburg]

I see the submission is precious line of thought and the he's a fake line of thought as two completely different things. He is a fake. Real PYLs - hell, mature adults would not delete their accounts or whatever. Send an email and say, I'm pissed/will not tolerate this/whatever, and as a consequence, the relationship is over, or you must do x, y and z, or whatever, but man the fuck up.

We'll have to disagree. Nothing is "fake" about cutting ties. As to the phone and email being disabled, I know people that have separate email addresses for these sorts of relationships, and it is not tough to imagine a separate phone either. It's dead easy to hit 7-11 and pick up one of those pre-paid phones to be used to call your internet submissive. It's just another identity cut-out, and it takes a phone call to turn it off.

We're talking about, so far as I can tell, a completely online thing, so why is it tough to conceptualise taking the steps to prevent continued contact in a case like this?

And, to reinforce, I think the behaviour rates high on the douche scale, but, again, not "fake". Meh.

The submission is precious thing I mostly chalk up to inexperience and/or a desire to make everything bdsm into something extra special with a bow on top. Whatever. I mean, to the extent these statements are related, it's that people are people, and a good relationship is a good relationship.

*nod* It's just tiresome, y'know? It's a facet of personality. It's as much a special gift as my chest hair.

 

[Primalex]

If you are dicking around with a married woman and you're really in favor of her getting it on with her husband unless you're not, I think that's kind of fucked up for you.

As I don't believe in the 'either-or' of this combination, I have to disagree.

 

[intothewoods]

We'll have to disagree. Nothing is "fake" about cutting ties. As to the phone and email being disabled, I know people that have separate email addresses for these sorts of relationships, and it is not tough to imagine a separate phone either. It's dead easy to hit 7-11 and pick up one of those pre-paid phones to be used to call your internet submissive. It's just another identity cut-out, and it takes a phone call to turn it off.

We're talking about, so far as I can tell, a completely online thing, so why is it tough to conceptualise taking the steps to prevent continued contact in a case like this?

And, to reinforce, I think the behaviour rates high on the douche scale, but, again, not "fake". Meh.

Well, I think we might agree that the words fake and real as applied to PYLs is more of the bdsm-special vocabulary. It certainly comes up often with respect to meeting people on the internet, but there is especially a lot of talk about real Dominants. Moreso than real submissives, I would guess. So sure, I'll sign up to call him a plain old jerk. The reason I gravitated to the word fake to describe this person is that I would bet money on the fact that he is not what he seems. It's the Internet, as we all know. And of course, I have no idea that crying blue eyes is who she says either. I take it all with a giant heaping of salt.

*nod* It's just tiresome, y'know? It's a facet of personality. It's as much a special gift as my chest hair.

I'm sure that is a special gift!

 

[Primalex]

It's as much a special gift as my chest hair.

Sometimes there are sentences in this forum I wish I've never read. Whenever I read "sub" today, I will picture something, I really do _NOT_ wish to have in my mind (or any other place near me).

 

[Homburg]

Well, I think we might agree that the words fake and real as applied to PYLs is more of the bdsm-special vocabulary. It certainly comes up often with respect to meeting people on the internet, but there is especially a lot of talk about real Dominants. Moreso than real submissives, I would guess. So sure, I'll sign up to call him a plain old jerk. The reason I gravitated to the word fake to describe this person is that I would bet money on the fact that he is not what he seems. It's the Internet, as we all know. And of course, I have no idea that crying blue eyes is who she says either. I take it all with a giant heaping of salt.

That is probably an even money bet. Far too many people are not what they seem on the net.

The "real ***" talk aggravates me, I admit. that said, I'm as guilty as anyone else of thinking that sort of thing - "Oh geeze, can you please stop calling yourself a submissive when you are just a fetishy bottom with about a smuch ability to follow a fucking order as my cat?"

--

Sometimes there are sentences in this forum I wish I've never read. Whenever I read "sub" today, I will picture something, I really do _NOT_ wish to have in my mind (or any other place near me).

I don't know whether to laugh, or apologise, so I'll offer my sympathies, and snicker behind my hand.

 

[Primalex]

So sure, I'll sign up to call him a plain old jerk.

Yadda yadda. If it would be vice-versa, you would label her "poor emotional woman" instead. Biased bitch.

 

[crying_blue_eyes]

A few minor points of clarification

Again, I want to thank everyone for such honest and sincere replies. Homberg, yours was difficult to read but offered some food for thought that had not occurred to me. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

Just to clarify and answer some of the questions that have been raised in the past few posts...

Yes, I am new to being a submissive and, forgive my ignorance, but I don't even know what PYL and OC stand for. I gathered which one I am by reading in context. I suppose I had a fascination with bondage and being controlled for a long time and I dabbled and "played" with it in lit, just exploring the possibilities. My online relationship with this man caught me by surprise. The degree to which he captured my heart and mind was frightening to me, especially considering that I am happily married with a beautiful family. (BTW, thank you so much to those of you who commented and helped me to understand that having a passionate and committed online D/s relationship AND having a healthy marriage are not mutually exclusive).

I will tell you that I met him online a long time ago, perhaps as much as a year ago, but our relationship was casual at first. Just role playing and chatting. He had to go overseas for a time and then I was in a terrible car crash so months and months went by without either of us contacting one another. About four months ago, he saw me online in yahoo and messaged me. We picked up where we left off and he became my one and only online partner.

He told me that he respected my marriage and would never order me to do (or not to do) anything with my husband. He said he would never pursue r/l meeting with me unless I disclosed everything to my husband. He also said that he would not allow me to do that if it would jeopardize my marriage. He said he saw his role partially as being someone to "awaken" me to the possibilities in my sexuality and was always encouraging me to use that wakefulness to enhance my sex life with my husband. I had told him that my husband and I used to log into lit and invite others to tell us what to do sexually...I told him that at times, we took that to the next level of voice chat or phone. He approved of the fact that my husband and I had done that and even asked me why we didn't do it anymore. This was a while back, but he never ever forbade me from playing online with my husband. Just the opposite, in fact! He was forever urging me to listen to my sexual urges and act on them, rather than repress them.

And soooo, when my husband suggested that we revive that particular activity; I was thrilled. It NEVER occurred to me that it would upset my master. Never occurred to me that he would be anything other than discreet and approving if he did see us in there. And that was, obviously, my error in judgement. In hindsight, I should have asked his permission....or at the very least, given him a heads-up that my husband and I were going to be online.

I do realize that perhaps this is for the best. I am so blessed in my life with my husband and my children. I do not know how long it will take for me to let go of my master. I am not sure I will ever be able to trust such a relationship again...unless it is a D/s situation with my husband. But I met my husband at age 18 and now, 25 years later, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to try to implement such a dramatic change into something that really is working well. I'm beginning to wonder if quitting something like this "cold turkey" is the best way...even if it comes so dramatically and painfully. Still makes for a cleaner break.

I am moving forward, continuing my writing. He encouraged me to write stories inspired by our time together and made me promise that I would get them published (of course this was a few weeks ago). It has helped me immensely to dive into preparing them for publication. Reading through them has reminded me of all the joy and bliss that we did share. No matter how it ended, I will always have that. And publishing my stories, following his last command of me...well, maybe that is the beginning of my penance and of closure.

I appreciate all comments, encouragement and constructive criticism as well. It all helps me to learn from this and grow. And if I ever do decide to offer myself as a devoted submissive to anyone again, I know so much more about what I am looking for and what questions to ask. Some lessons are just harder learned than others...I tell that to my kids all the time. I guess that holds true no matter what stage of life we're in, does it?

*smiles*
crying_blue_eyes

P.S. I haven't commented on the discussion of "fake" with regards to my vanished Dom...It didn't feel fake and he seemed so genuine and kind. I can't bring myself to accuse him of that. I do wish he had been man enough to chastise me, punish me and then break ties with me. I find it harder and harder to respect him simply disappearing in a rage. But I still adore him, I can't help myself. There's a part of me that always will. I don't know if that makes me a romantic or a fool...but there it is. As I said before, everyone here has given me so much to think about - I am so grateful.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"No one can make you feel inferior without your permission" ~Eleanor Roosevelt

 

[Homburg]

Yes, I am new to being a submissive and, forgive my ignorance, but I don't even know what PYL and OC stand for.

PYL/pyl refers to the phrase "Pick Your Label", and is a generic shorthand on lit to refer to the various roles.

PYL = top, dom, master, etc
pyl = sbottom, sub, slave, etc

I had told him that my husband and I used to log into lit and invite others to tell us what to do sexually...I told him that at times, we took that to the next level of voice chat or phone. He approved of the fact that my husband and I had done that and even asked me why we didn't do it anymore. This was a while back, but he never ever forbade me from playing online with my husband. Just the opposite, in fact! He was forever urging me to listen to my sexual urges and act on them, rather than repress them.

Yeah, okay, he's sounding more and more like a douche.

And soooo, when my husband suggested that we revive that particular activity; I was thrilled. It NEVER occurred to me that it would upset my master. Never occurred to me that he would be anything other than discreet and approving if he did see us in there. And that was, obviously, my error in judgement. In hindsight, I should have asked his permission....or at the very least, given him a heads-up that my husband and I were going to be online.

This would be the lesson to take away here. Add in asking for more communication, and an awareness that online doms are not going to be as involved and fixed in your life as a RL dom might be, and you will do better the next time around.

You sound like you're wrapping your head around this in a healthy way. Good on ya, blue eyes. I wish you well.

 

[Netzach]

Again, I want to thank everyone for such honest and sincere replies. Homberg, yours was difficult to read but offered some food for thought that had not occurred to me. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

Just to clarify and answer some of the questions that have been raised in the past few posts...

Yes, I am new to being a submissive and, forgive my ignorance, but I don't even know what PYL and OC stand for. I gathered which one I am by reading in context. I suppose I had a fascination with bondage and being controlled for a long time and I dabbled and "played" with it in lit, just exploring the possibilities. My online relationship with this man caught me by surprise. The degree to which he captured my heart and mind was frightening to me, especially considering that I am happily married with a beautiful family. (BTW, thank you so much to those of you who commented and helped me to understand that having a passionate and committed online D/s relationship AND having a healthy marriage are not mutually exclusive).

I will tell you that I met him online a long time ago, perhaps as much as a year ago, but our relationship was casual at first. Just role playing and chatting. He had to go overseas for a time and then I was in a terrible car crash so months and months went by without either of us contacting one another. About four months ago, he saw me online in yahoo and messaged me. We picked up where we left off and he became my one and only online partner.

He told me that he respected my marriage and would never order me to do (or not to do) anything with my husband. He said he would never pursue r/l meeting with me unless I disclosed everything to my husband. He also said that he would not allow me to do that if it would jeopardize my marriage. He said he saw his role partially as being someone to "awaken" me to the possibilities in my sexuality and was always encouraging me to use that wakefulness to enhance my sex life with my husband. I had told him that my husband and I used to log into lit and invite others to tell us what to do sexually...I told him that at times, we took that to the next level of voice chat or phone. He approved of the fact that my husband and I had done that and even asked me why we didn't do it anymore. This was a while back, but he never ever forbade me from playing online with my husband. Just the opposite, in fact! He was forever urging me to listen to my sexual urges and act on them, rather than repress them.

And soooo, when my husband suggested that we revive that particular activity; I was thrilled. It NEVER occurred to me that it would upset my master. Never occurred to me that he would be anything other than discreet and approving if he did see us in there. And that was, obviously, my error in judgement. In hindsight, I should have asked his permission....or at the very least, given him a heads-up that my husband and I were going to be online.

I do realize that perhaps this is for the best. I am so blessed in my life with my husband and my children. I do not know how long it will take for me to let go of my master. I am not sure I will ever be able to trust such a relationship again...unless it is a D/s situation with my husband. But I met my husband at age 18 and now, 25 years later, it just doesn't seem like a good idea to try to implement such a dramatic change into something that really is working well. I'm beginning to wonder if quitting something like this "cold turkey" is the best way...even if it comes so dramatically and painfully. Still makes for a cleaner break.

I am moving forward, continuing my writing. He encouraged me to write stories inspired by our time together and made me promise that I would get them published (of course this was a few weeks ago). It has helped me immensely to dive into preparing them for publication. Reading through them has reminded me of all the joy and bliss that we did share. No matter how it ended, I will always have that. And publishing my stories, following his last command of me...well, maybe that is the beginning of my penance and of closure.

I appreciate all comments, encouragement and constructive criticism as well. It all helps me to learn from this and grow. And if I ever do decide to offer myself as a devoted submissive to anyone again, I know so much more about what I am looking for and what questions to ask. Some lessons are just harder learned than others...I tell that to my kids all the time. I guess that holds true no matter what stage of life we're in, does it?

*smiles*
crying_blue_eyes

P.S. I haven't commented on the discussion of "fake" with regards to my vanished Dom...It didn't feel fake and he seemed so genuine and kind. I can't bring myself to accuse him of that. I do wish he had been man enough to chastise me, punish me and then break ties with me. I find it harder and harder to respect him simply disappearing in a rage. But I still adore him, I can't help myself. There's a part of me that always will. I don't know if that makes me a romantic or a fool...but there it is. As I said before, everyone here has given me so much to think about - I am so grateful.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"No one can make you feel inferior without your permission" ~Eleanor Roosevelt

You've been bitten in the ass by the fact that some people WANT to be permissive and open, and when the tires hit the road, they can't cut it. It doesn't make them horrible people, just horrible matches for your situation.

 

[crying_blue_eyes]

well said

Thanks, Netzach. That's probably the best thing I can do for closure's sake. Recognize that we weren't a match after all. Neither one of us is a bad person, just looking for different things and with different priorities... my husband and children being my top priority. I suppose any Dom worth his salt would not be comfortable knowing His sub is more concerned with her husband's pleasure than with His. I was naive to believe that he was okay with the openness. And, as you said, perhaps he wanted to be okay with it but couldn't handle it when faced with it as incontravertible fact.

I've said it before in earlier posts, but thank you... all of you.

*smiles*
~cbe

 

[ataxia.girl]

It sounds like you may have underestimated your power to hurt him. i do that a lot. i deny it actually. i do not want to acknowledge that i have the power to hurt my Daddy because i want to be small and weak and i want him to be big and strong and invincible. Reality sometimes butts in though.

Its possible he was he did not expect to react as he did on actually having to watch the 2 of you interact. Jealousy can can be a crazy thing.

i'm sorry he was not able to communicate with you why he left. i have been left before by an online Dom but he told me why he had to go. It sucks anyway and the withdrawl is still intensely painful but you do work through it.

The answer is probably not to jump right back in. You will just end up trying to recreate what you had with the previous Dom unless you have a lot more self control than i do. The topping from the bottom i did after my Bastard Daddy left was absolutely off the charts because i wanted so badly to have back what i had with him. It has taken a very strong Daddy to turn that around and help me love having something new and unique to us rather than chasing after the past.

 

[intothewoods]

Yadda yadda. If it would be vice-versa, you would label her "poor emotional woman" instead. Biased bitch.

Oh no. I hate petty overly emo chicks! Though I will admit I generally feel more empathy towards women. It's so weird. It's like we share something in common...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[intothewoods]

That is probably an even money bet. Far too many people are not what they seem on the net.

The "real ***" talk aggravates me, I admit. that said, I'm as guilty as anyone else of thinking that sort of thing - "Oh geeze, can you please stop calling yourself a submissive when you are just a fetishy bottom with about a smuch ability to follow a fucking order as my cat?"

--

You know, I know exactly where the difference is. I don't mean fake as in less domly, I mean fake as in an internet figment. I was up late, people. You can't expect brilliance from me every day!

I mean, me call someone not domly? Please. I so don't care. And my cat is great at following orders!

 

[intothewoods]

Thanks, Netzach. That's probably the best thing I can do for closure's sake. Recognize that we weren't a match after all. Neither one of us is a bad person, just looking for different things and with different priorities... my husband and children being my top priority. I suppose any Dom worth his salt would not be comfortable knowing His sub is more concerned with her husband's pleasure than with His. I was naive to believe that he was okay with the openness. And, as you said, perhaps he wanted to be okay with it but couldn't handle it when faced with it as incontravertible fact.

I've said it before in earlier posts, but thank you... all of you.

*smiles*
~cbe

Not necessarily. There is a lot going on here. Polyamory, your marriage, your sexuality, your husband's sexuality. Take a deep breath. Take many breaths. Talk to your husband, check out our library, read and sit with these things. I discovered this stuff, gosh, well over a year ago and I just now am starting to feel comfortable in my submissive needs, my bottom needs, my relationship needs. It's taken a lot of time, stress, freak outs, shame, mistakes and therapy. The best thing you can do right now is accept that you will not figure this out in the near future. And hey, life is full of surprises. I don't think I have it all figured out at this point.

 

[ShivanDragon00]

I'm not trying to crap on the OP when she is feeling badly, but this "submission is a rare gift" stuff is claptrap. Submissiveness is a personality trait. If you're submissive, it is as much a part of you as your hair colour. And it is not particularly rare. Lots of submissive people out there. Dominance is no special gift either, as there are plenty of forceful people out there. The special part lies solely in the functional beauty of the dynamic created together.

I have to just say somethin real quick. I agree with you when you say that submission is a personality trait. That is true. It is something that makes you who you are. But it also is a gift. I truly believe this. I believe when a submissive comes to a Dominant and gives themself to him or her, then that is a gift. I dont think anyone would deny that a submissive telling his or her Dominant that 'I give myself over to you for you to do whatever you please' is in at least some small way a gift. Treating it as anything else, I believe, invites the possibility of abuse. If you dont treat something as special or as a gift or as wondrous, how well will you truly take care of it??

 

[BiBunny]

I have to just say somethin real quick. I agree with you when you say that submission is a personality trait. That is true. It is something that makes you who you are. But it also is a gift. I truly believe this. I believe when a submissive comes to a Dominant and gives themself to him or her, then that is a gift. I dont think anyone would deny that a submissive telling his or her Dominant that 'I give myself over to you for you to do whatever you please' is in at least some small way a gift. Treating it as anything else, I believe, invites the possibility of abuse. If you dont treat something as special or as a gift or as wondrous, how well will you truly take care of it??

Maybe by treating the individual as a person, worthy of respect? I don't know. Radical idea, I know.

/jumps out of "submission is a gift" debate before I say something I shouldn't

 

[Homburg]

You know, I know exactly where the difference is. I don't mean fake as in less domly, I mean fake as in an internet figment. I was up late, people. You can't expect brilliance from me every day!

I mean, me call someone not domly? Please. I so don't care. And my cat is great at following orders!

Well, okay then.

And your cat may follow orders, but none of ours do. MIS' cat utterly refuses to comprehend that the fridge is an official "No Cat Zone". I think she selective hears "Cat Zone", and rushes in to enjoy the cold.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I completely reject the fake/real . They're all real, some just suck.

You are alright babe.

 

[ShivanDragon00]

Maybe by treating the individual as a person, worthy of respect? I don't know. Radical idea, I know.

/jumps out of "submission is a gift" debate before I say something I shouldn't

Truly a radical idea, but i would surmise if a Dominant looks at the situation as if it were a gift being given, instead of something that was owed to them because of their title, then dont you think respect would go along with that? Cant exactly respect someone for giving you their submission when you have the idea that your owed it in the first place....

 

[rosco rathbone]

Hello,

I am looking for other submissives who have gone through a painful break with their Dom (either irl or online). My online dom found me logged into lit chat with my husband...we were inviting others to tell us what to do to one another. He was enraged and accused me of lying, though about what I am unsure. And now he has vanished. His e-mail address has been disabled and his cell phone has been cancelled. I am bereft and not sure how I will ever recover. He was such a gentle and understanding Dom, and he was truly in my head and my heart. I cherish the fact that I have his voice forever, but I am lost without him. Any suggestions about where to go from here? Please refrain from suggesting that I "get back in the game"...I cannot imagine doing that now.

I should mention that I am happily married and that he was constantly encouraging me to channel my sexual energy into my marital bed. And so I thought that he would view my hubby and I "playing" online as a positive thing; I honestly thought it would please him that we were being adventurous. Sadly, I could not have been more wrong.

Any advice from other compassionate and caring Doms out there? What did I do wrong? If he does come back, what do you think he'll expect from me? I have written a series of stories based on our online and phone experiences and the fantasies that we built together. I'm posting them on lit as a beginning to my penance. This is another task that I promised him that I would do and I am determined to follow through with it, even in his absence.

Thank you all in advance for your advice and insight,
*smiles*

"crying_blue_eyes"

must...not....make....asshole....comment.....biting ...tongue...ow!

 

[Homburg]

I have to just say somethin real quick. I agree with you when you say that submission is a personality trait. That is true. It is something that makes you who you are. But it also is a gift. I truly believe this. I believe when a submissive comes to a Dominant and gives themself to him or her, then that is a gift. I dont think anyone would deny that a submissive telling his or her Dominant that 'I give myself over to you for you to do whatever you please' is in at least some small way a gift. Treating it as anything else, I believe, invites the possibility of abuse. If you dont treat something as special or as a gift or as wondrous, how well will you truly take care of it??

You know, when I buy a car, I take good care of it. When I sit down and make something with my own hands, I take care of it. My children were not gifts to me, but I take good care of them.

It's not a gift. It is not a thing that can be given. It is a state of relationship, a dynamic. viv did not give her submission to me. She retained that facet of her personality, and kept it to herself. She surrendered to me, gave me everything of herself. And it was no casual gift. It was deep, and thought through, and because I earned it, and demanded nothing less by whom I am to her. The same can be said about MIS. She gave me no gifts. We built this dynamic with blood and tears.

"Gift" is a weak, emotionally vapid term. I build my relationships to weather the storm, and her surrender to me had better be as rock-solid as my commitment to her.

Lastly, how much of a gift is it when you get something in return? A gift is something given with no thought of recompense. I've met very, very, very few submissives that would give themselves up with no thoughts whatsoever of some sort of recompense, even if it is only the emotional satisfaction of having someone to watch over you. You get something out of it, so it cannot strictly be a "gift". I know I sure work frikken hard for my two "gifts".

And if you want to infer that I don't take care of my girls, and I must not, by your logic, because I don't consider their surrender to me to be a gift, I invite you to speak to them directly.

--

Maybe by treating the individual as a person, worthy of respect? I don't know. Radical idea, I know.

/jumps out of "submission is a gift" debate before I say something I shouldn't

Pfft, you should.

 

[Homburg]

Truly a radical idea, but i would surmise if a Dominant looks at the situation as if it were a gift being given, instead of something that was owed to them because of their title, then dont you think respect would go along with that? Cant exactly respect someone for giving you their submission when you have the idea that your owed it in the first place....

This is another meme I'm getting suspiscious of. Maybe it is my experience alone, but aside from tales of obvious HNG's on the net, I've yet to meet a single PYL in RL that assumed that any pyl should be submissive to him simply because he's a dominant. I see all sorts of crowing about how this groups rules specifically are against that, or this lonely dominant looking for a submissive would never do that, yet I've met exactly zero dominants that act this way, and all kinds of dominants that were really nice, mellow people. even met a few who were utter dickheads, but they didn't act like this.

 

[ShivanDragon00]

You know, when I buy a car, I take good care of it. When I sit down and make something with my own hands, I take care of it. My children were not gifts to me, but I take good care of them.

It's not a gift. It is not a thing that can be given. It is a state of relationship, a dynamic. viv did not give her submission to me. She retained that facet of her personality, and kept it to herself. She surrendered to me, gave me everything of herself. And it was no casual gift. It was deep, and thought through, and because I earned it, and demanded nothing less by whom I am to her. The same can be said about MIS. She gave me no gifts. We built this dynamic with blood and tears.

"Gift" is a weak, emotionally vapid term. I build my relationships to weather the storm, and her surrender to me had better be as rock-solid as my commitment to her.

Lastly, how much of a gift is it when you get something in return? A gift is something given with no thought of recompense. I've met very, very, very few submissives that would give themselves up with no thoughts whatsoever of some sort of recompense, even if it is only the emotional satisfaction of having someone to watch over you. You get something out of it, so it cannot strictly be a "gift". I know I sure work frikken hard for my two "gifts".

And if you want to infer that I don't take care of my girls, and I must not, by your logic, because I don't consider their surrender to me to be a gift, I invite you to speak to them directly.

--



Pfft, you should.

I will state straight up front that i dont know everything. I have much to learn and i am always willing to learn more. And yes when you do put it in that light, i can see what your saying. I understand that there is a great deal of effort that must be put into a relationship, building it together and creating something, and in this light, it would seem as two people coming together to get what each of them needs. The Dominant needing someone to submit to him or her, and the submissive needing that protection.

However, my view is unwavering. I believe that when someone gives themselves to another, they put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation....not to say that we dont do that in any type of relationship, but i believe when a submissive does it, its all the more....you seem to focus greatly on the nurturing aspect of D\s just as much as any other aspect, but that is not true with every Dominant. There are plenty out there who when given the submission of another will seek to abuse it. D\s is all about balance, but a different kind of balance. The submissive knowingly has less control over the situation than their Dominant does so they are more at the mercy of whatever the Dominant choses to do. It should not be easy for a submissive to give themselves, heart, mind and soul to another, that is not an easy thing for anyone to do. It is something that takes time, it is something that is built upon, but i also happen to think that when it is given, it should be considered very special....almost like a gift....

These are just my views....they are neither right or wrong...isnt that the beauty of opinion?

 

[Homburg]

I will state straight up front that i dont know everything. I have much to learn and i am always willing to learn more. And yes when you do put it in that light, i can see what your saying. I understand that there is a great deal of effort that must be put into a relationship, building it together and creating something, and in this light, it would seem as two people coming together to get what each of them needs. The Dominant needing someone to submit to him or her, and the submissive needing that protection.

Which produces a reciprocal relationship with give and take on both sides. Not some one-sided non-reciprocal gifting situation.

However, my view is unwavering.

Then why even have the conversation in the first place?

I believe that when someone gives themselves to another, they put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation....not to say that we dont do that in any type of relationship, but i believe when a submissive does it, its all the more....you seem to focus greatly on the nurturing aspect of D\s just as much as any other aspect, but that is not true with every Dominant. There are plenty out there who when given the submission of another will seek to abuse it. D\s is all about balance, but a different kind of balance. The submissive knowingly has less control over the situation than their Dominant does so they are more at the mercy of whatever the Dominant choses to do. It should not be easy for a submissive to give themselves, heart, mind and soul to another, that is not an easy thing for anyone to do. It is something that takes time, it is something that is built upon, but i also happen to think that when it is given, it should be considered very special....almost like a gift....

Except that being part of a two-way relationship, it's nothing like a gift.

These are just my views....they are neither right or wrong...isnt that the beauty of opinion?

I see no beauty in opinion. The jackhole that screamed out "Kill him!" when Sarah Palin was speaking about Barack Obama was expressing his opinion, and there was no beauty involved. Beauty may be found in the expression of opinion in an emotionally stirring, well-crafted manner. The same can be said about submission. There is no beauty intrinsic to it. It can be ugly, brutal, meaningless, tawdry, shallow, etc. It is only beautiful if the people involved make it so. I have had women throw themselves at me (electronically) based on reading a post or two of mine here on Lit. There is no beauty in that.

I understand that you want to romanticise submission. It's cool to have fairy tales, fantasies, and dreams that inspire you. It's what gets you through. Just be careful when making statements like you did before in regards to someone being incapapble of truly caring for a submissive if he doesn't see it as a gift. Not everyone is like you. Some of us have been doing this for a while and experience informs differently. I'm happy with the reality of my life, and don't need to romanticise BDSM. It's pretty great the way it is, and doesn't need my marketing help.

And don't kid yourself that it is rare. It's not. The rarity is in the worth of the rest of the person attached to that submissive urge. Like I said, I can find an ass to beat anywhere, and there is no inflated ego in that statement, as any PYL that is not utterly repugnant can say the same. If they don't have an ass handy it is because they have standards, and won't just take whatever is given.

(So I don't want to hear from any single doms out there griping because I'm saying this. You know that you have standards.)