California Gov. Newsom unveils historic $97.5 billion budget surplus

[Sean Renaud]

Take a look around you the next time you leave your bubble and get on the freeway. Notice the old pickup trucks and vans driven by gardeners, cleaning services, repair services and contractors. Notice the minivans and SUVs driven by moms and working class families to shuttle kids and stuff around. They have large gas tanks. Not everyone can afford new hybrid vehicles or EVs. Those who might be able to afford an EV don’t always have places to plug in their cars at night. Renters comprise 45% of the state. As I noted previously, more than 1/3 of the people in CA live at or near the poverty line. And many working class Californians above that category are struggling.

I live in San Bernadino and work in Riverside. The freeway is my friend. Its nobody's faults but their own that people are still drying old trucks and not all of them have large tanks anyhow.

This idea that not everyone can afford a new hybrid and/or EV is kinda silly. I'll agree with you on EVs for the most part and that we should be spending money putting the infrastructure into place so that apartment livers can recharge. People rent homes you know so half the state being renters doesn't mean they don't have access.

However its been twelve years since 2008 had those price spikes and if you couldn't scrounge together enough money to get a hybrid over twelve years something is wrong with you.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I live in San Bernadino and work in Riverside. The freeway is my friend. Its nobody's faults but their own that people are still drying old trucks and not all of them have large tanks anyhow.

This idea that not everyone can afford a new hybrid and/or EV is kinda silly. I'll agree with you on EVs for the most part and that we should be spending money putting the infrastructure into place so that apartment livers can recharge. People rent homes you know so half the state being renters doesn't mean they don't have access.

However its been twelve years since 2008 had those price spikes and if you couldn't scrounge together enough money to get a hybrid over twelve years something is wrong with you.

About a quarter of all cars on the road in the US are over 16 years old. My truck is 18 years old. The average age of cars is easily that high or higher among the 36% of struggling Californians at or just about the poverty line.

Hybrids cost about about 20% more than internal combustion engine vehicles. EVs are much higher. Suggesting that your gardener, your house cleaner, your waiter, or your barista who bought their car over a decade ago should have forked out thousands of extra dollars back then when gas prices were low to prepare for the sudden > $6 per gallon gas prices in 2022 is very naive.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

State revenues dropped dramatically with the market crashes in 2001 (tech bubble burst) and 2008 (subprime mortgage crisis) forcing spending cuts, tax increases, employee furloughs, and budget gimmicks. More recently we had a pandemic-related $54 billion shortfall in 2020 but that was quickly resolved by the market recovery and massive injections of federal dollars. The state is heavily dependent on capital gains of the top 1%, largely concentrated in Silicon Valley. When stocks fall, so capital gains tax revenues.

Now correctly apply that data to the recoveries which strengthened is. Rent is at an all time high due to demand. Why is that?

 

[Sean Renaud]

About a quarter of all cars on the road in the US are over 16 years old. My truck is 18 years old. The average age of cars is easily that high or higher among the 36% of struggling Californians at or just about the poverty line.

Hybrids cost about about 20% more than internal combustion engine vehicles. EVs are much higher. Suggesting that your gardener, your house cleaner, your waiter, or your barista who bought their car over a decade ago should have forked out thousands of extra dollars back then when gas prices were low to prepare for the sudden > $6 per gallon gas prices in 2022 is very naive.

Honestly I'm a bit shocked the number is that low. Mine is a mere twelve but if I hadn't totaled my real car it would be nearly thirty years old by now and the main reason I haven't replaced it is that Oldsmobile Auroras were pretty rare and used a lot of nonstandard parts. I'll fine something similar once I get a little bit more money stored up.

To your second point, and I notice you are limiting to CA which is fine but this IS a national problem. I was speaking specifically about the decrease in SUVs when gas was what? Four something or other for most of a year? And that kicked my ass mostly because something was wrong with my catalytic converter so I was using almost twice as much gas as I should have. That was my own fault for not getting regular check ups. Which maybe is something we should look into putting some government money towards.

However if people in a broad sense had kept the trend of buying fewer SUVs and more Hybrids there would be a robust used market for Hybrids now a decade later driving down prices for the vehicles (used I've never had a new car, I don't think anybody in my family ever has, though my sister MIGHT have.) That was a choice the middle and upper middle class made however. And the decrease in gasoline needs for a hybrid would decrease demand. This shit isn't complicated we just collectively lack the will.

Peck isn't wrong that we should be working towards more compact cities, but where I live you can survive with just a bike or even one of those electric scooters. Grocery shopping is gonna be a bitch but you can get enough from Amazon to get by. No, I'm not a huge fan of Amazon but like Walmart there really isn't a true alternative floating around and I'm definitely a one problem at a time person.

I just checked, you can get a hybrid for under 7k if you shop around. That isn't THAT much even if you aren't making a ton of money. These are problems we CAN solve and choose to accept.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Honestly I'm a bit shocked the number is that low. Mine is a mere twelve but if I hadn't totaled my real car it would be nearly thirty years old by now and the main reason I haven't replaced it is that Oldsmobile Auroras were pretty rare and used a lot of nonstandard parts. I'll fine something similar once I get a little bit more money stored up.

To your second point, and I notice you are limiting to CA which is fine but this IS a national problem. I was speaking specifically about the decrease in SUVs when gas was what? Four something or other for most of a year? And that kicked my ass mostly because something was wrong with my catalytic converter so I was using almost twice as much gas as I should have. That was my own fault for not getting regular check ups. Which maybe is something we should look into putting some government money towards.

However if people in a broad sense had kept the trend of buying fewer SUVs and more Hybrids there would be a robust used market for Hybrids now a decade later driving down prices for the vehicles (used I've never had a new car, I don't think anybody in my family ever has, though my sister MIGHT have.) That was a choice the middle and upper middle class made however. And the decrease in gasoline needs for a hybrid would decrease demand. This shit isn't complicated we just collectively lack the will.

Peck isn't wrong that we should be working towards more compact cities, but where I live you can survive with just a bike or even one of those electric scooters. Grocery shopping is gonna be a bitch but you can get enough from Amazon to get by. No, I'm not a huge fan of Amazon but like Walmart there really isn't a true alternative floating around and I'm definitely a one problem at a time person.

I just checked, you can get a hybrid for under 7k if you shop around. That isn't THAT much even if you aren't making a ton of money. These are problems we CAN solve and choose to accept.

The reason my comment is limited to CA is because the topic of the thread is CA budget surplus. I was simply pointing out that CA is heavily dependent on capital gains income. Strong stock market performance has benefited the state coffers, but the market is now facing headwinds. Also noted that gas prices are hurting many Californians. They could use some of that surplus back in their wallets.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Now correctly apply that data to the recoveries which strengthened is. Rent is at an all time high due to demand. Why is that?

Knock yourself out. CA is heavily dependent on capital gains tax revenue. A rising stock market benefits CA tax receipts. Falling stock prices depress tax receipts. Take a look at what happened to the market indexes this past week. It’s not complicated. If markets don’t recover this year tax receipts could drop precipitously as they have in the past.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The reason my comment is limited to CA is because the topic of the thread is CA budget surplus. I was simply pointing out that CA is heavily dependent on capital gains income. Strong stock market performance has benefited the state coffers, but the market is now facing headwinds. Also noted that gas prices are hurting many Californians. They could use some of that surplus back in their wallets.

Which is just fine. I have a habit of wandering topics a bit more than I should. I'm a big picture guy and do my best not to get hung up too much on the detail work. Other people can sift through the rubble.

I didn't disagree with you. I don't quite know how we could fix that in a short period of time but I don't particularly love being tied to the stock market which could go down. Its good over any ten year period though.

 

[ll74]

Knock yourself out. CA is heavily dependent on capital gains tax revenue. A rising stock market benefits CA tax receipts. Falling stock prices depress tax receipts. Take a look at what happened to the market indexes this past week. It’s not complicated. If markets don’t recover this year tax receipts could drop precipitously as they have in the past.

Kentucky teacher retirement relies on Russian stocks.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Knock yourself out. CA is heavily dependent on capital gains tax revenue. A rising stock market benefits CA tax receipts. Falling stock prices depress tax receipts. Take a look at what happened to the market indexes this past week. It’s not complicated. If markets don’t recover this year tax receipts could drop precipitously as they have in the past.

Apology accepted.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Apology accepted.

Ok. Didn’t realize I apologized for something but whatever it is you’re welcome. Lol.

 

[domroger]

Kentucky teacher retirement relies on Russian stocks.

So Florida was not alone in doing this.Wonder how many more states are invested in Russia.

 

[YDB95]

We passed a law back in the 70's where if the gov had a surplus they had to refund it back to the taxpayers. It was done by either Wilson or Moonbeam's dad I think but don't really remember.

You certainly don't remember if you think it was done in the '70s by Wilson (who became governor in 1991) or Brown Sr. (who left office in 1967).

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

So Florida was not alone in doing this.Wonder how many more states are invested in Russia.

IDK what is in CA’s retirement fund portfolios. I have not read anything indicating that there is risk exposure to Russian assets. Hopefully not. Rising inflation, market volatility, and unfunded liabilities are challenging enough.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

 

[adrina]

And Texas has a hell of a lot less to show for it.

 

[HisArpy]

If you have either a deficit or a surplus, you're not doing it right. Budgets need to be as close to balanced as possible.

I have no clue how luk thinks the State having BILLIONS in excess money while it's residents have less money is a good thing.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

I have no clue how luk thinks the State having BILLIONS in excess money while it's residents have less money is a good thing.

Luk didn't say that, RAPEY. Why do you lie so much?

 

[JohnEngelman]

If you have either a deficit or a surplus, you're not doing it right. Budgets need to be as close to balanced as possible.

Tell that to supporters of Ronald Reagan.

 

[BluesDriver66]

Texans pay more in taxes than Californians​

Texans in the bottom 20 percent of income earners — those earning less than $20,900 — pay 13 percent of their income in state and local taxes, while those in the top 1 percent of income earners — those earning $617,900 or more — pay only 3.1 percent.


In California, the bottom 20 percent of income earners — those earning less than $23,200 — pay 10.5 percent in state and local taxes, while the top 1 percent — those earning $714,400 or more — pay 12.4 percent.

https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Texas-taxes-California-17364793.php

 

[icanhelp1]

Now correctly apply that data to the recoveries which strengthened is. Rent is at an all time high due to demand. Why is that?

Because housing is unaffordable. It's easy to run budget surpluses when ya don't fix broken shit. Unfunded liabilities stands at 1.7 trillion ( state and local pension funds )

 

[ll74]

Because housing is unaffordable. It's easy to run budget surpluses when ya don't fix broken shit. Unfunded liabilities stands at 1.7 trillion ( state and local pension funds )

Housing is unaffordable because there's not enough of it.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Because housing is unaffordable. It's easy to run budget surpluses when ya don't fix broken shit. Unfunded liabilities stands at 1.7 trillion ( state and local pension funds )

If you ever want me to stop posting, get something right. I might die of shock.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Take the TikTok chart with a healthy grain of salt.

- Californians pay $6,813, per capita in state and local taxes per year. Texans pay $4,481 per year, per capita.

- California has a highly progressive state income tax. Texas no income tax.

- The state sales tax rate in CA is 7.25%. The state sales tax in TX is 6.25%. In counties and cities within each state, municipal sales taxes bump these up a bit.

Texas does have higher property tax rates though. The property tax rate in CA is about 1%. The Property tax rate in TX is about 1.7%. Local assessments (bonds and special parcel taxes, etc.) bump these up. While property tax RATES are much higher in TX than CA, property assessments are much, much higher in CA, especially for people who haven’t held their property for decades.

So is the TikTok chart wrong? Not necessarily, but the headline of the post with the charts is wrong. If you read the article, the claim isn’t that Texans pay more taxes. Its that Texans pay more as a percentage of income.

The source of the TikTok chart is the left leaning nonprofit Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP). The methodology is not described in the chart and I couldn’t find it on their website. It would be important to understand how they allocated property taxes among renters at different income levels, or if state payroll taxes are included.

 

[ll74]

Take the TikTok chart with a healthy grain of salt.

- Californians pay $6,813, per capita in state and local taxes per year. Texans pay $4,481 per year, per capita.

- California has a highly progressive state income tax. Texas no income tax.

- The state sales tax rate in CA is 7.25%. The state sales tax in TX is 6.25%. In counties and cities within each state, municipal sales taxes bump these up a bit.

Texas does have higher property tax rates though. The property tax rate in CA is about 1%. The Property tax rate in TX is about 1.7%. Local assessments (bonds and special parcel taxes, etc.) bump these up. While property tax RATES are much higher in TX than CA, property assessments are much, much higher in CA, especially for people who haven’t held their property for decades.

So is the TikTok chart wrong? Not necessarily, but the headline of the post with the charts is wrong. If you read the article, the claim isn’t that Texans pay more taxes. Its that Texans pay more as a percentage of income.

The source of the TikTok chart is the left leaning nonprofit Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP). The methodology is not described in the chart and I couldn’t find it on their website. It would be important to understand how they allocated property taxes among renters at different income levels, or if state payroll taxes are included.

If the claim is that texans pay more in taxes on average, then that would mean that some pay less but more pay more. And that is true.

Understanding that average doesn't mean all should be known by anyone with an average intelligence and not needing to be defined for the class. Additionally, all headlines should be taken with a grain of salt- regardless of the source.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Poor boomer.