Calling the CMOS Ninjas

[PacoFear]

The Princeton guy, the one my answer matched? I must be smart!


hahahahaha

And pretty.

 

[_Lynn_]

And pretty.

Thanks, PF. That made me smile.

 

[sr71plt]

I would to, but I was hoping to get a "right" answer. Oi. Harder than I thought.

I think you got both the right answer and the practical answer. The right answer is: subject/verb agreement in the core sentence is needed. The practical answer is: if it will stop a reader (as this did) to consider whether it's right or wrong, it would be best to write it into better clarity, less flow interrupting.

 

[lovecraft68]

A little bit of an aside here. Obviously for a school paper this thing would need to be as correct as possible.

But if this were being read in a story or novel, I wonder how many people would care. How many people would back over the sentence and think Hmmm shouldn't that be.....

I've always been curious as to how many people care about "perfect" grammar or writing when reading a book. Glaring things like bad misspellings, no commas sentences that go the lengths of paragraphs etc... I can see anyone noticing

But would something like this stop someone's enjoyment? I think my question is -especially with the e-book self publishing market blowing up- how important it is to be this spot on.

Two of the biggest selling things in the last few years is Twilight and now its fan fic opus 50 shades.

According to all accounts these books are "poorly written" yet are making a mint.

So end of the day how important is all this "9.14 says....." from a strictly entertainment POV.

 

[sr71plt]

There isn't one e-book reader who everyone is trying to please. Who knows where the edge of tolerance is? I can see where any author would rather be known for writing well rather than writing mistake-riddled prose, though, and would rather readers were concentrating on their plot and characters more than on their idiosyncratic view of what is readable.

Commenters at Lit. and reviewers in the marketplace do seem to care and to comment on what they find that doesn't meet their "readability" expectations.

 

[_Lynn_]

A little bit of an aside here. Obviously for a school paper this thing would need to be as correct as possible.

But if this were being read in a story or novel, I wonder how many people would care. How many people would back over the sentence and think Hmmm shouldn't that be.....

I've always been curious as to how many people care about "perfect" grammar or writing when reading a book. Glaring things like bad misspellings, no commas sentences that go the lengths of paragraphs etc... I can see anyone noticing

But would something like this stop someone's enjoyment? I think my question is -especially with the e-book self publishing market blowing up- how important it is to be this spot on.

Two of the biggest selling things in the last few years is Twilight and now its fan fic opus 50 shades.

According to all accounts these books are "poorly written" yet are making a mint.

So end of the day how important is all this "9.14 says....." from a strictly entertainment POV.

If the wording disrupts the flow, I have to start over, and that's distracting. I've stopped reading books because the sentences aren't smooth.

If I have to "work" at reading, I'm not enjoying it.

 

[sr71plt]

I think it also makes a significant difference in whether or not the reader paid for the work. I am able to read through a lot of mistakes in a Literotica story without commenting on them--unless directly asked. This to far greater extent, I have observed, than most other readers at Literotica will. When I make a comment on grammar and punctuation style on the forum, it's because the question was either asked--or the poster was so bumptuous about what someone else had written/posted that I thought they deserved to be called out on their own writing.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think it also makes a significant difference in whether or not the reader paid for the work. I am able to read through a lot of mistakes in a Literotica story without commenting on them--unless directly asked. This to far greater extent, I have observed, than most other readers at Literotica will. When I make a comment on grammar and punctuation style on the forum, it's because the question was either asked--or the poster was so bumptuous about what someone else had written/posted that I thought they deserved to be called out on their own writing.

Interesting point. I'll even take it beyond free to a "Well what did I expect for $1.99?" As opposed to something I picked up for $9.99 at a bookstore.

I never call out out anyone's grammar here because mine is not particularly good. In fact I probably enjoy reading stories here more because of that, because it does not stick out to me so much.

 

[lance gt]

If it were a legal matter, everything counts, but a school paper has some minor leeway. Whether the context is right or not, the intent is the same, unless as I said, it was weighed seperately or as a whole.

 

[lovecraft68]

If the wording disrupts the flow, I have to start over, and that's distracting. I've stopped reading books because the sentences aren't smooth.

If I have to "work" at reading, I'm not enjoying it.

The only thing that will stop me is repeated misspellings. The reason being is that you can be so-so with grammar like I am and mess some things up and whatever.

But spell check is a tool that every one has and I feel if the author didn't take the time to use it then that tells me he's not making a serious effort.

Guess that would just fall under personal pet peeve.

 

[nakdsub]

If you simply put...

The "sample" in front it reads..."The sample of 13 grams were weighed"

 

[sr71plt]

The "sample" in front it reads..."The sample of 13 grams were weighed"

Ummm, no. "grams" is still in a prepositional phrase, not the core sentence. So, in this construction, it should be:

"The sample of 13 grams was weighed." (singular subject, "sample," matched to singular verb, "was.")

Look for the subject of the SENTENCE and match it to the verb of the SENTENCE. Drop out all clauses (unless they are standing in for the subject) while on this hunt to get to the core sentence.

And on spellcheck. Computer spellcheck doesn't cut it on spelling and REALLY doesn't cut it on hyphenation. You need to check questionable words in a dictionary too, preferably Webster's Collegiate, for U.S. style, and the OED for British style.

 

[palisa]

Without seeing the entire sentence, I can't be sure of the context, but the problem may be a little broader than just subject/verb agreement. The answer could depend on whether "13 grams" is a total amount or 13 individual grams rather than on the intervening prepositional phrase.

To me, the root question is why the researchers weighed the sample if they already knew it was 13 grams? In other words, the clause is redundant as it is. Rewording and skipping the weighing step is an option. "...13 grams of sample was/were added..." If you agree with the thought that the original is redundant, then changing it to "a 13-gram sample was weighed..." doesn't help much.

The most common example of a similar (not identical) redundancy is something like "The president addressed the meeting and told the executives..."

CMS 5.8 and 5.9 are somewhat helpful on the question of whether the verb should be singular or plural, noting that the it can be either with some mass nouns depending on the desired emphasis. "...13 dollars were added..." vs. "...13 dollars were added..." depends on whether you emphasize the amount (was) or the individual dollar bills added (were).

The New York Times style guide goes into this in some detail under "number of subject and verb."

I assume "13 grams" does not begin a sentence.