Can We Get More "Ethnic" Diversity on the Literotica Site?

[Pure]

Astral kiss, said,


As to the whole different race dom/sub, domme/sub thing...I am so confused, because I don't know!

I'm a freaking mutt!

Again I repeat: Japanese, Native American, African American, Swiss, Dutch, Lithuanian, Latvian, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Russian.

SO I have no idea where I fall and to make matters worse and more confusing, I'm a switch.

Jeez.

Of course we are all mutts, or Heinz 57, as one friend says. I'm Anglo-Scottish-Dutch then Canadian, American. And there's probably things I don't know about. The Thomas Jefferson family (supposed 'white' side) is not atypical.

The lines of division between 'races' are fairly arbitrary, like the lines/borders people assign between countries like Canada and the US; or between items like fruits compared to vegetables (what is a tomato?).

Further, many groups do not fit the so called major 'race' categories, such as the aboriginal people of Australia, who are quite dark skinned, but not afaik, esp. related to African black peoples. That said, the categories do exist, at least as mental, sometime useful constructs, like 'Canadian' and 'American.' But anthropologists dismiss the idea, at least for our post CE times, of 'pure races.'

The lines of sex, gender and sm orientation are likewise constructs; while useful, they do violence to those, like you or me who 'straddle' certain fences ['switches'].

In looking at the role of the construct of 'race' in bdsm or related fantasy, I don't mean to ignore the merits of those who are 'mixed', and indeed that's most.

From my (decidedly not-pure) 'white' pov, 'mixed' race and bi-racial persons, especially those not predominantly 'white', have their own specific fascination. And as you know, there are stereotypes and fantasies regarding mixed persons; for instance, those who used to be called 'half-breed'. (This is also the title of a fine autobiography by a Canadian Meti woman.) In recent years, a number of the top female fashion models are lovely examples of persons of 'mixed' racial/ethnic backgrounds.

 

[Pure]

Sup pure

I see some nice whips, bondage and general degredation with each of these examples. This BDSM scene could prove to be more charged than the usual scenes with the race roles. Not a bad idea really.

I agree with Sterling Clay. The 'charge', as you call it is there. Minds deal in fantasies and categories (however much these are constructs). **A Black pro domme, such as I have encountered, arguably makes use of that 'charge', whether or not consciously, in that race is undoubtedly a factor in the white sub's desire for that arrangement. Perhaps, of course, the 'charge' exists only in the mind of the white sub, but that does not affect the domme's ability to make use of it.

It's perhaps also true, as CBW suggests, that the 'colonial' past shapes the minds of those experiencing a 'charge',or nuance of experience, based on a racial construct. If this is the case, then the 'reversal' noted by CBW is partly understandable. The unconscious often reverse polarities of situations. (In this case, the 'colonial' master fantasizes submission to the r.l. colonized.)

Note: The above message was edited, 10:24am, 12-30-02, at point marked **. In the interests of accuracy and of getting across my thoughts precisely, I have deleted the reference to Eb. Sorry, Eb.

 

[Ebonyfire]

erased to keep the peace.

I still refuse to discuss race.

Perhaps ya'll are looking at this wrong.

Perhaps white subs realize that a black domme is very, very good.

Eb

 

[Pure]

Ebonyfire:

Perhaps white subs realize that a black domme is very, very good.

==========

Regarding those I've encountered in person (2)--Amen to that!

Best,
J.

 

[zipman]

Ebonyfire:

Perhaps white subs realize that a black domme is very, very good.

==========

Regarding those I've encountered in person (2)--Amen to that!

Best,
J.

And based on the ones that I have met in person, I would absolutely have to agree (even though I'm a racist)

 

[astralkiss]

I know, it's just weird, because I look pure Irish or pure German.. Strangeness...

By the way, Sterling, nice pics ^__^ *

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

The unconscious often reverse polarities of situations. (In this case, the 'colonial' master fantasizes submission to the r.l. colonized.)

Precisely!

 

[Ebonyfire]

And based on the ones that I have met in person, I would absolutely have to agree (even though I'm a racist)

If you are a racist, I am the Queen of England.

Eb<We are not amused...waving to Her subjects>

 

[DevilBoy79]

Today, for the first time I came across the "Pictures" section on the Literotica "Erotic Stories & Picture Index" webpage. Under the "Free Galleries of the Day", there was ONE gallery out of the 21 galleries listed which made a reference to Black people. Under the "Free Pictures of the Day", there was ONE category out of the 34 categories listed which made a reference to Black people.

Peace & Luv,
brnsuga

Innocentangel81 and I, had a thread for interracial sex pics(black women and white men), search under either of our names if you would like to find it

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

If you are a racist, I am the Queen of England.

Eb<We are not amused...waving to Her subjects>

Then you're HRM Ebony Fire Regina

 

[Ebonyfire]

Then that's HRM Ebony Fire Regina

Zip is not a racist. contrary to what you think CBM. So can it.

Eb

 

[sterlingclay]

erased to keep the peace.

I still refuse to discuss race.

Perhaps ya'll are looking at this wrong.

Perhaps white subs realize that a black domme is very, very good.

Eb

Black, white, purple or green. It's all about the esthetics for me. The subject though is stimulating in a voyeuristic sense. I like to see intense feelings erupt in a passionate situation. My imagination is vivid and flexible so paint me a picture.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Black, white, purple or green. It's all about the esthetics for me. The subject though is stimulating in a voyeuristic sense. I like to see intense feelings erupt in a passionate situation. My imagination is vivid and flexible so paint me a picture.

If your imagination is so vivid and flexible, paint your own damn picture.

Eb

 

[sterlingclay]

If your imagination is so vivid and flexible, paint your own damn picture.

Eb

Hey I'm working on it. Due out next week, keep an eye out on the story page people.

Eb your words make me shiver. I'll fight for more.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Hey I'm working on it. Due out next week, keep an eye out on the story page people.

Eb your words make me shiver. I'll fight for more.

I'm here for you booby.

eb

 

[Pure]

Hi Dutchman's Domme,

I want to follow up a question I asked

[pure:]

First, tell me, in constructing the Black domme character, what do you do aside from adjusting physical description of her? Iow, are you in essence writing about a domme and male sub, then simply 'coloring' the dominant one black, and the subordinate one white? Or are you doing something more complex?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You [DD] replied in part:


I am a Black Domme with a Dutch sub, so I just write from experience. My heroine is basically me so I think she comes across as a real person. I certainly get a lot of fan mail from men who want to meet her for real. heh heh heh

I think we all have stereotypes about other groups in our heads though. The most realistic way to inject them into the story is subtle weaving. Not too much description, just let the reader's imagination do the rest. He or she already has a concept of whatever stereotype you would employ in her/his head already.
===========

Hey, you didn't mention that you had in fact experimented with carrying out the kind of 'coloring' I alluded to. Judging by readers' voting (over 400, mostly 5's), it was a success.

Here are url's for those who want to compare:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=72041

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=46029

Just to remind people here what you plainly stated in posting your story: There was an original by Couture called "Breaking and Entering"; you 'tweaked' it, in terms of adding some phrasing to indicate that the woman/emerging-domme was Black. You re-titled it: "Breaking Him Down." The original had no refs to color of skin; people likely assumed white. The new version has color and shape refs added to setting and action that are described in identical terms in the two stories.

So if readers' votes are any indication, it appears that 'race' may be fairly simply altered in a standard porn-erotic story. Readers will 'buy' those alterations. To answer my question then, adding 'race' to a sexual story--and having it 'work'-- is not necessarily a complex procedure at all.

I'm not sure I am entirely comfortable in this conclusion, but I must admit your 'tweaked' story tends to show that a _story_ itself may be basic; the 'race' of the characters is not necessarily so.

I'd be interested in other's comments on the experiment and the two stories, and the extent to which the DD version succeeds in constructing a Black character.

Congratulations DD, and best regards,

J.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Zip is not a racist. contrary to what you think CBM. So can it.

Eb

Whatever you say, your majesty. I, however, maintain that he is. To tell you the truth, I don't think that you and I would ever see eye-to-eye on that subject ... and that's all I'll say about that in here.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Whatever you say, your majesty. I, however, maintain that he is. To tell you the truth, I don't think that you and I would ever see eye-to-eye on that subject ... and that's all I'll say about that in here.

To tell the whole truth, I believe that you and I would not see eye to eye on any subject. I can live with that, BTW.

Eb

 

[RisiaSkye]

Re: Pure

We are all carrying racial baggage whether we want to admit it or not.

I think this is about the most coherent post in this thread to date.

And I completely agree.

RS

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Pure

I think this is about the most coherent post in this thread to date.

And I completely agree.

RS

Now, Now RS, I think that the term "racial baggage is a tad strong." Stereotyping baggage" or "ethnic baggage" is more accurate cause it is not always racial but ethnic & political.

That is why I do not discuss it. It is a subject that is B-O-R-I-N-G.

Eb

 

[P. B. Walker]

I think this whole thread should be moved to the GB since it has no bearing on BDSM. Nor does the person that has posted to this thread the most even post in this forum (besides this thread and the other thread about race). I mean, hell why don't we just start talking about ethics in politics and gender equality in the corporate world.

PBW

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

The original had no refs to color of skin; people likely assumed white. The new version has color and shape refs added to setting and action that are described in identical terms in the two stories.

While there were no explicit references to the race of either character, the type of vernacular employed by the characters indicates that they are Americans. Moreover, the repeated use of the word 'cock' by the female character and various other dialectal 'WASP-isms', as well as the more solidly concrete reference to the male character's 'reddened pucker' indicate, to me at least, that both characters are White.

This harkens back to what I said earlier about the often illusory nature of, ostensibly, race-neutral writing. That which might appear completely devoid of allusions to race to a White American reader, may well ring conspicuously White and American to a person not of either or both of those groups. As I stated before, there appears to be, among many White Americans, a rather chauvinistic assumption that holds that the universal unbiased stasis point of this motley experiment of human drama is 'all White -- all the time." Thus, most Americans don't find it strange that there are no Black people and very few Latinos in the New York of 'Seinfeld' and 'Friends.'

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

To tell the whole truth, I believe that you and I would not see eye to eye on any subject. I can live with that, BTW.

Eb

... I just do not have that rapport with black males ... I have dated black men, but find we do not have anything in common but color.

I strongly suspect that the reasons that you and I would never see eye-to-eye on any subject have nothing to do with anything that I've said. Albeit, I'm sure that we are politically diametrically opposed. I'd already caught an inkling of your viewpoint long before I ever posted to this board. And, if you weren't what you are, I'd been going on about stockholm syndrome right now. But, despite this unfortunate circumstance, I can't help but have a certain consanguineous good will toward you ... even in the face of your naked animosity.

¡Feliz Año Nuevo, Ma'am!

 

[Pure]

Hi CBW,

you said,

While there were no explicit references to the race of either character, the type of vernacular employed by the characters indicates that they are Americans. Moreover, the repeated use of the word 'cock' by the female character and various other dialectal 'WASP-isms', as well as the more solidly concrete reference to the male character's 'reddened pucker' indicate, to me at least, that both characters are White.

OK, that a plausible and trenchant view of the original, Couture's "Breaking and Entering." I don't have a problem with the view that Couture, whom I assume is white, wrote a 'white' story, even though skin color, race, and ethnicity were not specified; though the story might look 'color free' or neutral it may not be so. But doesn't that make 'tweaking' (minorly modifying) it problematic, if the goal is a Black character?


So what I want to know is, Does the second version, by DD work? As far as I've seen in a quick read, the main changes were in descriptions, e.g., of skin. I don't recall changes in the sorts of words you mentioned; iow the main dialogue didn't seem that much altered. How do you see the changes, and did they successfully create a convincing Black domme.

The tweaked story is amazingly successful; at the same time there's no doubt 95% of readers were white, mostly males, with the commonplace fantasies of a Black domme and no experience of one. What say you?

 

[Pure]

I'm somewhat chastened about racist exclusion, having now looked at some 'top model' sites, with African American (-British, -Canadian, etc.) women in mind.

But is this woman hot, or what?

Georgina Robertson:

http://www.atpictures.com/display.php?cat=models&path=/georginar&loc=serv7t&img=georgina224.jpg