Can We Get More "Ethnic" Diversity on the Literotica Site?

[zipman]

Of course you do. Their victims are neither Jewish nor White.

So obviously the emotion of sympathy or empathy are beyond me? I can only relate or agree if it touches my own cultural or religious roots. I would be offended by your assumption if I actually cared about what you think about me. Personally, I find you to be arrogant, argumentative, poorly informed and a racist in your own right, with a transparent bias.

But let's move on, shall we.

I didn't start this thread, nor did I steer it toward a geopolitical discussion. As to my mind, I assure you that I'm open to any reasonable Idea. A Palestine ethnically cleansed of Palestinians is not reasonable ... That's a repeat of Warsaw and the trail of tears.

I find it quite interesting that you've singled out Brnsuga and myself in a thread that many other Lit posters notably you have fully participated in.

As I stated before, I would be happy to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on the GB, where such discussions belong. My post was an attempt to move this conversation back to the issue that Brnsuga wanted to discuss. I apologize to her for the part I have played in hijacking her thread.

However, it was you who injected geopolitics, and racism into this thread. If you recall, I agreed with your post about perceptions, and added that I thought this was a human dynamic, as opposed to just an American one as you asserted. Your reply was as follows:

I've lived in several culturally and geographically disparate areas of The United States, and also in Europe (while in the military). I've also done a fair amount of traveling abroad (though not nearly enough), and spend an inordinate amount of time in Canada. In my limited experience I've found that this reaches its absurd apogee in the United States. America is far and away the most racially polarized country (without regard for commonality of language, history, religion or socioeconomic status) of any country on whose soil I've set foot.

You then continue with the following post:

This is patently obvious. Those who deny this have a racist agenda of their own.

I see this as a clear example of your open mind. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has to have a racist agenda.

I didn't single out you and Brnsuga, I included her name as she started the thread and you have by far been the most prolific poster on the thread with 27 posts, 13 more than anyone else.

If there are any other misperceptions that I can clear up for you as I did above please let me know.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

So obviously the emotion of sympathy or empathy are beyond me? I can only relate or agree if it touches my own cultural or religious roots. I would be offended by your assumption if I actually cared about what you think about me. Personally, I find you to be arrogant, argumentative, poorly informed and a racist in your own right, with a transparent bias.

But let's move on, shall we.

I'm sure that you won't be surprised to learn that I value your opinion very little. I don't know you, so I can only form opinions about you based on your posts, which seem to center solely Israel and Zionist interests. So yes, if I had to render an opinion I'd be inclined to believe that unless it concerns the interests your group, that you'd have little in the way of empathy. That seems to be the gist of everything that you've written in this thread. I do find it amusing that you are exactly what you've accused me of being i.e., arrogant, argumentative, poorly informed and a racist in your own right, with a not-so-transparent Zionist bias. You are a member of a group, after all, which professes the megalomanic racist belief that its members are 'god's chosen people.' Is there anything more arrogant than that? Furthermore, as I've already established, you don't know the meaning of the word 'racist.'

As I stated before, I would be happy to discuss the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on the GB, where such discussions belong. My post was an attempt to move this conversation back to the issue that Brnsuga wanted to discuss. I apologize to her for the part I have played in hijacking her thread.

However, it was you who injected geopolitics, and racism into this thread. If you recall, I agreed with your post about perceptions, and added that I thought this was a human dynamic, as opposed to just an American one as you asserted. Your reply was as follows:

As is typical with you, this is an out and out lie. Any discussion of race and diversity in America is an inherently political one. Clearly, I didn't start this thread. I, in fact, initially sought to avoid any overtly politicized postings. Here is the comment that precipitated a more political turn in the thread, "do writers who happen to be black often associate themselves as "writers of color?" Or do they just write their smut and submit it without indicating what race they are? " I did not post it. Everything that followed grew from that inquiry. I responded truthfully to this question and subsequent questions and comments. That my answers caused something of a row in this thread is of little concern to me. Don't ask questions to which you don't want to hear the answers. Because I'm not going to hold my tongue for you or anyone else. Simply because its de rigueur in post 9/11 America to pretend that this is one big happy melting pot doesn't mean that I'm going to go along with that egregious bold-faced lie. I can well see that Emperor has no clothes, and I have no problem informing him that he's bare-assed naked.

You then continue with the following post:

I see this as a clear example of your open mind. Anyone who doesn't agree with you has to have a racist agenda.

I never stated, anywhere, that anyone who disagreed with me is necessarily a racist. I said that anyone who denies the completely racist nature of The United States, from it's inception drenched in the blood of millions of First Nations people and African slaves to it's present de facto Apartheid and racist foreign policy has a racist agenda.I stand by that statement. America is a country conceived in the worst kind of murderous inhuman racism, and it has never deviated far from that course. Even TV, Radio,and movies, which require no human interaction, are nonetheless segregated.

I saw a holiday special recently named "Must Be Santa." It was a fairly innocuous tale of a man who thinks that his life hasn't amounted to much until he is pegged by some celestial yuletide bureaucracy to be the next "real Santa Claus." The long and short of the story is that he does indeed become Santa, while along the way reconciling his relationship with his daughter and becoming the object of romantic love of a blonde angel (a literal angel who pursues the enigmatic would-be-Santa and eventually becomes the next Mrs. Claus). This is your standard mediocre network holiday fare. Except, in this case the would-be-Santa was Black, while the blonde Angel/Mrs. Claus was 'Scandinavianly' White. I happened on this holiday special while channel surfing in an attempt to find some appropriate viewing for my daughter. Within 10 seconds of watching this film I knew that there was absolutely no way that it was a holiday special on an American T.V. network. It is conceivable that an American network might make a Christmas special, to air in primetime, about a Black Santa Claus. It's not bloody likely, but it's possible. However, no American network is going to produce and air a Christmas movie wherein said Black Santa is playing kissy-face with the aforementioned Swedish Angel. Of course, I was correct. "Must Be Santa" was a Canadian production showing on CBC (Canadian Broadcast Corporation) affiliate Windsor 9.

Again I have to laugh that you would defend the race record of the U.S. The current support that Israel enjoys with the American majority (as opposed to it's long standing strategically based support from the government) is predicated only on the fact that in the Jewish/Arab conflict, the Jews are the whiter of the two opposing sides. So, naturally segregated racist America takes the side of the European invaders. Within a year of the resolution of the Iraqi/Al Qaeda crusade, some of these same Americans who are so pro-Israel now will go back to burning and defacing Synagogues as they have done in the past.

I didn't single out you and Brnsuga, I included her name as she started the thread and you have by far been the most prolific poster on the thread with 27 posts, 13 more than anyone else.

Again another lie. Or is it that you don't know what 'singled out' means? Regardless of the pretext, you mentioned us by user-named. That is, by definition, singling out.

single out:
v 1: select from a group; "She was singled out for her outstanding performance" [syn: center out] 2: treat differently on the basis of sex or race [syn: discriminate]

If there are any other misperceptions that I can clear up for you as I did above please let me know. [/B]

I have no misperceptions where you are concerned. Your meanings and motives are clear, or rather clearly insidious.

In the interest of maintaining the integrity of BDSM, and preemptively to avoid another RisiaSkye smack-down, I'm going to henceforth ignore your postings. We're of diametrically opposing view-points, and nothing said on this forum is likely to change that.

 

[zipman]

<snip>
I have no misperceptions where you are concerned. Your meanings and motives are clear, or rather clearly insidious.

In the interest of maintaining the integrity of BDSM, and preemptively to avoid another RisiaSkye smack-down, I'm going to henceforth ignore your postings. We're of diametrically opposing view-points, and nothing said on this forum is likely to change that.

This is a discussion, not a flame war. Therefore, I couldn't care less what RisiaSkye or anyone else has to say about it.

Nor do I particularly care for you, your arrogance, your racist agenda or your blatant confrontational attitude. To be honest, I pity you, because your unhappiness with life is quite apparent from your posts.

However, I do appreciate your effort to maintain the integrity of BDSM discussions in this forum. As such, I will not pursue this discussion with you any further.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets irked by that 'tard.

PBW

 

[Pure]

In the dim past, this thread was about 'diversity', ethnic and racial. Let us take a race or group who has been 'subjected' in recent times, like Black or Native North American. What 'dimension' or effect would that have, if any, in these four scenarios:

Mixed:

White dom, Black or Native female sub. How would 'erotic slavery' pan out, for example?

White domme, Black or Native male sub.

Black or Native dom and white female sub.

Black or Native domme and white male sub.

====
And of course the 'same sex' combos, such as

Black or Native domme and Black or Native male sub.

====
Apart from reality, what are the fantasies around such combinations?

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

This is a discussion, not a flame war. Therefore, I couldn't care less what RisiaSkye or anyone else has to say about it.

Nor do I particularly care for you, your arrogance, your racist agenda or your blatant confrontational attitude. To be honest, I pity you, because your unhappiness with life is quite apparent from your posts.

However, I do appreciate your effort to maintain the integrity of BDSM discussions in this forum. As such, I will not pursue this discussion with you any further.

Again, you really should invest in a dictionary. Then you might gain some idea of what 'racist' means. But, I doubt that you'll ever accept the denotation of the word, because if you did you couldn't deny the integral racism of America and Israel. And, the transparent pretense of "The Big Lie" is the crux upon which your fallacious circular argument hinges. You are as much of a racist as that fat moron PBW, the only difference is that you can compose a coherent sentence.

 

[Marquis]

You are a member of a group, after all, which professes the megalomanic racist belief that its members are 'god's chosen people.' Is there anything more arrogant than that? Furthermore, as I've already established, you don't know the meaning of the word 'racist.'

You challenge a person's character because of their being of a certain ethnicity, that sounds like textbook racism to me. I rarely make assumptions about anyone online, but I can clearly make the assumption that you know nothing about Jewish theology. Referring to themselves as "God's chosen people" has nothing to do with them being superior to other people. Unlike most religions, Jews actually believe that all people are capable of entering heaven, and that everyone is equal. It is not easy to explain, but if you would like me to I could explain what calling the Jews "God's chosen people" really means.

I said that anyone who denies the completely racist nature of The United States, from it's inception drenched in the blood of millions of First Nations people and African slaves to it's present de facto Apartheid and racist foreign policy has a racist agenda.

Actually, you said that anyone who didn't think the United States was THE MOST racist country in the world had their own racist agenda. I have lived in enough countries to know that this is not true. The racism in America is indeed awful, but it is naive to think it is the worst anywhere.

I saw a holiday special recently named "Must Be Santa."

Its funny that you should mention that, because I saw parts of it as well and came to many of the same conclusions you did.

The current support that Israel enjoys with the American majority (as opposed to it's long standing strategically based support from the government) is predicated only on the fact that in the Jewish/Arab conflict, the Jews are the whiter of the two opposing sides. So, naturally segregated racist America takes the side of the European invaders. Within a year of the resolution of the Iraqi/Al Qaeda crusade, some of these same Americans who are so pro-Israel now will go back to burning and defacing Synagogues as they have done in the past.

You don't think that it could have anything to with the fact that they killed a few thousand Americans? Besides, those people who were defacing Synagogues didn't change their minds because the Israelis are their enemies enemy.

I have no misperceptions where you are concerned. Your meanings and motives are clear, or rather clearly insidious.

A little paranoid are we?

 

[sterlingclay]

In the dim past, this thread was about 'diversity', ethnic and racial. Let us take a race or group who has been 'subjected' in recent times, like Black or Native North American. What 'dimension' or effect would that have, if any, in these four scenarios:

Mixed:

White dom, Black or Native female sub. How would 'erotic slavery' pan out, for example?

White domme, Black or Native male sub.

Black or Native dom and white female sub.

Black or Native domme and white male sub.

====
And of course the 'same sex' combos, such as

Black or Native domme and Black or Native male sub.

====
Apart from reality, what are the fantasies around such combinations?

Sup pure

I see some nice whips, bondage and general degredation with each of these examples. This BDSM scene could prove to be more charged than the usual scenes with the race roles. Not a bad idea really.

 

[DutchmansDomme]

Pure

Black or Native domme and white male sub.

I am not personally familiar with the other scenarios but I know Black Domme/white sub is a fantasy of a whole lot of white men. All of the stories I write are about this combination and I get incredible fan mail. And the white men specifically want to be dominated by a Black woman.

There is something very exciting about these combinations. We are all carrying racial baggage whether we want to admit it or not.

 

[Pure]

Thanks for responding, DD,

you said,

I am not personally familiar with the other scenarios but I know Black Domme/white sub is a fantasy of a whole lot of white men. All of the stories I write are about this combination and I get incredible fan mail. And the white men specifically want to be dominated by a Black woman.

There is something very exciting about these combinations. We are all carrying racial baggage whether we want to admit it or not.


Now, a couple questions ( I haven't yet read any of your writing so I really don't have answers; this is not a test!) First, tell me, in constructing the Black domme character, what do you do aside from adjusting physical description of her? Iow, are you in essence writing about a domme and male sub, then simply 'coloring' the dominant one black, and the subordinate one white? Or are you doing something more complex?

Second, to what degree if any does a racial stereotype come into your description of the Black domme, in your opinion? If so, do you think there is such a thing as a benign or neutral stereotypical characteristic, like, let us say, in this case, strength of character? If I or anyone else has a look, it will be interesting to see if we agree with you and your self-assessment.

I myself at at the other end of the spectrum: I've experienced a Black woman as domme irl, but never tried to write her up as such, or portray such a figure.

Best,
J.

 

[DutchmansDomme]

Thanks for responding, DD,

Now, a couple questions ( I haven't yet read any of your writing so I really don't have answers; this is not a test!) First, tell me, in constructing the Black domme character, what do you do aside from adjusting physical description of her? Iow, are you in essence writing about a domme and male sub, then simply 'coloring' the dominant one black, and the subordinate one white? Or are you doing something more complex?

Second, to what degree if any does a racial stereotype come into your description of the Black domme, in your opinion? If so, do you think there is such a thing as a benign or neutral stereotypical characteristic, like, let us say, in this case, strength of character? If I or anyone else has a look, it will be interesting to see if we agree with you and your self-assessment.

I myself at at the other end of the spectrum: I've experienced a Black woman as domme irl, but never tried to write her up as such, or portray such a figure.

Best,
J.

I am a Black Domme with a Dutch sub, so I just write from experience. My heroine is basically me so I think she comes across as a real person. I certainly get a lot of fan mail from men who want to meet her for real. heh heh heh

I think we all have stereotypes about other groups in our heads though. The most realistic way to inject them into the story is subtle weaving. Not too much description, just let the reader's imagination do the rest. He or she already has a concept of whatever stereotype you would employ in her/his head already.

For example, I have had white men tell me that they find Black women more naturally dominant. This is surely due to stereotypes about us - neck rolling, don't take any shit, hands on hips, caustic wit etc. I just let the reader's natural assumptions about this flavor my stories.

I manage teams of mostly white men and I have seen the reactions when I put my hands on my hips and wear certain articles of clothing. Quite frankly some of these guys are afraid of me. And quite a few are on the bone when I am perched on the edge of their desks inspecting their work. I like it. A man with a hardon works harder. Presumeably trying to bury his arousal in something more appropriate - his assignment.

The Amazon is a stereotype and so is the Black Amazon, but we all have images of real people in our heads who could fill in the blanks. Naomi Campbell for example. She is notorious for being a cruel bitch and I'm sure many many men would not mind her having a tantrum on their ass with a hairbrush and strapon.

 

[sterlingclay]

Oh good, the thread is back on track. Pay attention boys, we've got a black domme present and she has stories.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Oh good, the thread is back on track. Pay attention boys, we've got a black domme present and she has stories.

Duh! There has always been a black Domme present around here. That ain't nothing new.

Eb

 

[sterlingclay]

Duh! There has always been a black Domme present around here. That ain't nothing new.

Eb

lol
I was wondering if I was going to get a reply out of you. Please assist in keeping this thread on track.

Do you bring out racial characterization in your play or is it just straight domme/sub?

 

[Ebonyfire]

lol
I was wondering if I was going to get a reply out of you. Please assist in keeping this thread on track.

Do you bring out racial characterization in your play or is it just straight domme/sub?

There was a reason why I did not reply.

I do not want to discuss race.

 

[sterlingclay]

There was a reason why I did not reply.

I do not want to discuss race.

In a way, that answers my question. I was never one to play cowboys and injuns either.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Oh good, the thread is back on track. Pay attention boys, we've got a black domme present and she has stories.

I find it interesting that this site seems to solely attract Black women who have some sort of prohibition against intra-racial relationships. Moreover, I find this to be more or less true of BDSM in general. I'm left to wonder if this trend holds true in other non-white ethnicities. Are Asians, Latinos, or Native Americans, for example, who are involved in BDSM more likely than their general populations to abjure the company of their own, and is there an inherent colonialist slant to BDSM on the whole?

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

... Now, a couple questions ( I haven't yet read any of your writing so I really don't have answers; this is not a test!) First, tell me, in constructing the Black domme character, what do you do aside from adjusting physical description of her? Iow, are you in essence writing about a domme and male sub, then simply 'coloring' the dominant one black, and the subordinate one white? Or are you doing something more complex?

This seems to assume that a Black writer would write from a White point of view and then have to 'blacken' the character.

 

[BlackSnake]

OK, time for my two cents...

Yup, racism exist...

It always has....

I've been living with it for nearly forthy years...

Question: Would you have more repect for the person you smiles at you everyday and pretends that he/she like you, or the one who would stand on his own convictions and tell you that he/she would only like you if you were dead? Becareful, trick question. One of them is a snake, and they tend to bite more than once.

I would love to see black women start a thread and post their pics. I do not like the idea of having a seperate area for minorities.

Reason: Many great men and women in our history have died to stop that type of crap!

Thanks to those brave souls I am a college graduate, and can fuck just about any woman of any nationality that would want to, and during the daytime!

If you want to see more pictures of black people, take them and post them....more stories by or about black people write them....more threads, start them.

If you want something, just go for it.

If there is any questions as to what I like, well I know it when it is giving my snake a nice place to be. What it comes down to is how nice a woman is to me when I'm being nice to her.

Here is a very nice black woman

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

You challenge a person's character because of their being of a certain ethnicity, that sounds like textbook racism to me. I rarely make assumptions about anyone online, but I can clearly make the assumption that you know nothing about Jewish theology. Referring to themselves as "God's chosen people" has nothing to do with them being superior to other people. Unlike most religions, Jews actually believe that all people are capable of entering heaven, and that everyone is equal. It is not easy to explain, but if you would like me to I could explain what calling the Jews "God's chosen people" really means ..

That is all theologically and historically inaccurate bull-shit. The Bible is one long bloody tirade about how the "god" of Israel wants the Samaritans and Philistines et al. murdered in their sleep and how warlike murderous Yahweh will deliver into their hands thousands of Goyim slaves (but only after drowning a few thousand babies) ... blah blah blah. Mythology aside, it's, rather, how this 'god' was used as an excuse to legitimize rabid warmongering and aggression toward any of their neighbors who had something that they wanted to make their own.

But, I'm not going to go into it because the argument is rendered moot by the fact that I clearly was talking about fanatical Zionists and not Jews in general (all of whom are not political Zionists). I must have typed the word Zionist 50 times in the back and forth bickering between zipman and myself. But, as is typical with you, you see what you want to see.

Zionists believe that some mythical deity entitles them aliya (return to Palestine.) This racist doctrine purports that mostly European 'Jews' (the Ashkenazim) who have never set foot in Palestine, and whose Khazar ancestors haven't lived there in 1000 years, if at all, have a right to displace the true Semitic people of Palestine, who have live there all along. Of course, this right to return doesn't extend to the Palestinian refugees who were actually living there in 1949, and is only grudgingly extended to non-white 'Jews' and then only after extraordinarily more scrutinizing than Germans or Russians who claim to be 'Jews.' This is indefensibly racist, and is no different than The Nuremberg Laws of The National Socialist German Workers' Party that denied German citizenship to clearly German 'Jews.'

With that, I am done with this discussion. This thread skews Eurocentric and racist, and nothing is to be gained through a continue dialogue with you people.

 

[BlackSnake]

Damn, I got sucked into an area I have no idea about. What in the hell does BDSM stand for? Seriously!

Dominating women: Bitch...please!
Women sitting around waiting to be told what to do: Get the fuck out!

I like getting back what I give. This just seem like craziness.

 

[Cuckolded_BlK_Male]

Damn, I got sucked into an area I have no idea about. What in the hell does BDSM stand for? Seriously!

Dominating women: Bitch...please!
Women sitting around waiting to be told what to do: Get the fuck out!

I like getting back what I give. This just seem like craziness.

Yep, that's about it.

 

[astralkiss]

EEEP!

All of this racial and ethnic stuff leaves me so confused.

As to the whole different race dom/sub, domme/sub thing...I am so confused, because I don't know!

I'm a freaking mutt!

Again I repeat: Japanese, Native American, African American, Swiss, Dutch, Lithuanian, Latvian, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Russian.

SO I have no idea where I fall and to make matters worse and more confusing, I'm a switch.

Jeez.

 

[sterlingclay]

EEEP!

All of this racial and ethnic stuff leaves me so confused.

As to the whole different race dom/sub, domme/sub thing...I am so confused, because I don't know!

I'm a freaking mutt!

Again I repeat: Japanese, Native American, African American, Swiss, Dutch, Lithuanian, Latvian, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh and Russian.

SO I have no idea where I fall and to make matters worse and more confusing, I'm a switch.

Jeez.

You and me both astral. I'm a twitchy switchy mutt with an interest in fun

 

[Pure]

Hi CBW,

I can see how you might read it that way, but it's not what I meant. I meant, 1) can one and should one compose, in one's head, a story in a 'color blind' way, that is without any reference to any race or color? Assuming one could, would it be true to say that race assignments (all of them including white) are simply to be (and can be) inserted 'after the fact[composition], let's say, at the time of writing.

I do realize that, as you and others have pointed out, if one simply wrote a story, posted it here, and race/color were not mentioned, almost everyone would assume the characters were white: it operates as sort of a default, in the white mind at least, in this part of the world. In fact I read a rather good story by a Black woman author here, who suggested race in a subtle way; i.e., the characters were Black, with hindsight. I did not notice this at first.

It is truly scary how the white mind assumes 'white' is the default, when we know that non-white races/groups are a minority: i.e., it would be safer, statistically, for a story set somewhere in the world, to assume NON-white, unless specified differently.


===========
I [pure] had said,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Now, a couple questions ( I haven't yet read any of your writing so I really don't have answers; this is not a test!) First, tell me, in constructing the Black domme character, what do you do aside from adjusting physical description of her? Iow, are you in essence writing about a domme and male sub, then simply 'coloring' the dominant one black, and the subordinate one white? Or are you doing something more complex?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This seems to assume that a Black writer would write from a White point of view and then have to 'blacken' the character.