cheatin' subbie

[JMohegan]

This is my point. People don't want to deal with this idea. I find that endlessly amusing. Isn't this a gaping hole in our domliness, this idea that we can't even consider the humiliating possibility?

Not to single you out as in denial, but you know what I mean.

Yes, I do know what you mean, and don't take offense at your comments.

It doesn't feel like denial to me, it's just certainty - like knowing that night follows day. I know how that sounds, and don't blame you for laughing. Statistics prove that the one can not be fairly compared to the other.

I guess you could say this is sort of like faith, for me. I don't believe in the tenets of any religion, but I do believe in love - as I have experienced it.

Don't blame you for laughing again.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I run my life that whoever makes the ultimatum you lose.

Thats a prime directive of emotional martial arts.



The OP said nothing about consent on cheating one way or the other. No way to tell if it was approved of tacitly or openly.

 

[Netzach]

my Daddy deals with it by completely re framing what it means to own me. He owns me as a father does a child. Care and concern far outweigh feelings of personal jealousy when there is a mistake.

It's just some fucking fucking. By deflecting the meaning attached to it, do you find you feel even more powerless?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Yes, I do know what you mean, and don't take offense at your comments.

It doesn't feel like denial to me, it's just certainty - like knowing that night follows day. I know how that sounds, and don't blame you for laughing. Statistics prove that the one can not be fairly compared to the other.

I guess you could say this is sort of like faith, for me. I don't believe in the tenets of any religion, but I do believe in love - as I have experienced it.

Don't blame you for laughing again.

I'm not laughing at love...been there, lost about 60 pounds, took to hard drugs. Walked around at all hours looking like the living dead.

What I find funny is just the leverage that this issue gives women over men.

Men who deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability defuse that leverage in my opinion.

 

[ataxia.girl]

It's not the involvement that determines if it's cheating or not, it is the consent about your actions. If he understands what you are doing, then it's not cheating and so doesn't fit to the OP example.


Of course, it opens a rather theoretical debate what freedom really is? If I remove the collar, it was my action that did it and your freedom is due to my permission - and any thought of freedom is merely illusion. Or even more philosophical: If you would really have the freedom of the spirit, you could decide to not fuck around with other people and thus would be more free than someone who is driven by his/her emotions to feel freedom.

He does not give his consent. He does not know whether i have other relationships or not.

The last time we spoke about it he asked if i thought i would be happy if i could have other relationships. i told him "i do not want your consent". He said okay and we went to bed. He does not pry.

This part of my life is mine and i will not have the terms dictated to me.

As i said previously i cannot get out from under the patriarchy by asking its permission.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Men who deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability defuse that leverage in my opinion.

Very much agreed.

 

[ataxia.girl]

It's just some fucking fucking. By deflecting the meaning attached to it, do you find you feel even more powerless?

God yes. i have zero power with him. None. i test and i test and i test.

i am powerless to change his love for me or his behavior toward me beyond a momentary spanking and fucking. i cannot make him "deal" with me any differently than he has since day one.

 

[Primalex]

He does not give his consent. He does not know whether i have other relationships or not.

The last time we spoke about it he asked if i thought i would be happy if i could have other relationships. i told him "i do not want your consent". He said okay and we went to bed. He does not pry.

I have to admit, I have no clue if this is cheating or not.

 

[bholderman]

Soooo much to say...but im not.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I have to admit, I have no clue if this is cheating or not.

Neither do i and i like it that way. The 3 month lead up to that particular conversation was very difficult. There was a lot of angst on both sides. We battled to keep our philosophies aligned but they simply are not and yet we still love each other and coexist and could not imagine continuing on the project of life and kids we are in with anyone else.

Edited to add: The lead up was much more than 3 months but it was 3 months previous i first brought up the possibility of a more open marriage.

 

[Netzach]

He does not give his consent. He does not know whether i have other relationships or not.

The last time we spoke about it he asked if i thought i would be happy if i could have other relationships. i told him "i do not want your consent". He said okay and we went to bed. He does not pry.

This part of my life is mine and i will not have the terms dictated to me.

As i said previously i cannot get out from under the patriarchy by asking its permission.

This makes total sense to me. I informed my husband, I didn't ask him, but that's how we roll. If we didn't, my head would hurt lots.

 

[ataxia.girl]

This makes total sense to me. I informed my husband, I didn't ask him, but that's how we roll. If we didn't, my head would hurt lots.

Yeah... coming from a very patriarchal religious paradigm this was definitely not how we rolled but as i worked through my bitterness i eventually realized that on this issue it had to be this way. If he had "allowed" it the relationships would have been hollow and i would have looked for something else to claim as my own as an assertion against his authority over me. i had to claim it for myself if it was going to give me the sense of self and autonomy i was looking for. The lack of self was seriously making me insane.

It has been a year and a half. i have been with Daddy for a year and can honestly say i am in a very stable place. When i am at home i am at home with my husband. When i visit Daddy i am with Daddy. i seldom pine. It happens occasionally but not so often as one would imagine.

 

[Primalex]

Neither do i and i like it that way. The 3 month lead up to that particular conversation was very difficult. There was a lot of angst on both sides. We battled to keep our philosophies aligned but they simply are not and yet we still love each other and coexist and could not imagine continuing on the project of life and kids we are in with anyone else.

I do grok the last part. I was asked once, how I decided which woman to marry. This question caught me offguard, because I never really thought about it before. But then, thinking about it, dumping all the romantic payload, the answer was simple: It was of course the one I wanted to spend my life with.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not laughing at love...been there, lost about 60 pounds, took to hard drugs. Walked around at all hours looking like the living dead.

What I find funny is just the leverage that this issue gives women over men.

Men who deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability defuse that leverage in my opinion.

My problem with your suggestion is that I just can't see myself loving someone, if I thought she would be willing to fuck another guy.

How do you "deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability?"

 

[Primalex]

My problem with your suggestion is that I just can't see myself loving someone, if I thought she would be willing to fuck another guy.

How do you "deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability?"

By decreasing the importance of it.

If your friend on a party mumbles:"Boy, I would love to fuck Kirsten Dunst." then you wouldn't expect that his wife gets very upset. Although it might happen if he uses the name of the neighbor.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My problem with your suggestion is that I just can't see myself loving someone, if I thought she would be willing to fuck another guy.

How do you "deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability?"

I would say, no ultimatums and no pretending about one's own emotions.

 

[ownedsubgal]

My problem with your suggestion is that I just can't see myself loving someone, if I thought she would be willing to fuck another guy.

How do you "deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability?"

you'd be surprised at who you can fall in love with. love is screwy that way.

 

[JMohegan]

I would say, no ultimatums and no pretending about one's own emotions.

No ultimatums about infidelity? Check. (I've also never delivered ultimatums about embezzlement, assassination, secret cults, and so on. I've never felt the need.)

No pretending about one's own emotions? Check on that one, too. Mindfucks just aren't my game.

 

[ataxia.girl]

My problem with your suggestion is that I just can't see myself loving someone, if I thought she would be willing to fuck another guy.

How do you "deal with it openly and with manly vulnerability?"

By accepting that people change, sometimes they change a lot. Its no one's fault its just life. If you go in rigidly saying "i will never accept x" you are setting yourself up for failure.

Never say never.

i do say forever most every day though. i accept that forever will change and evolve but i have faith we can handle it and i feel that no matter what changes we will be together.

 

[JMohegan]

you'd be surprised at who you can fall in love with. love is screwy that way.

Once upon a time, I might have referred to emotional attachment without faith as love.

But decades ago, I realized that's just lust.

 

[Netzach]

I just feel more empowered by the "you can fuck the entire fleet and suck the entire back bar, and it doesn't change a single thing in my owning your ass" stance. Personally.

What happens with me matters and what happens with them is genitals and acting out and your own little adventure, whatever. Arrogant and possibly delusional, but that's how I feel about it.

And it's really interesting when they move into a state of fidelity and emotional fidelity with no pushing or lobbying. I haven't fucked another man I read as "as butch as" T since I started seeing him. I didn't even realize I was doing that.

 

[rosco rathbone]

No ultimatums about infidelity? Check. (I've also never delivered ultimatums about embezzlement, assassination, secret cults, and so on. I've never felt the need.)

No pretending about one's own emotions? Check on that one, too. Mindfucks just aren't my game.

"That's what the front door is for" seems somewhat ultimatumish to me. It's like saying "I will withdraw my love if you hurt me".

Understandable? Totally. Most of us feel the same desire to do something in reaction. I know I do.

 

[ataxia.girl]

And it's really interesting when they move into a state of fidelity and emotional fidelity with no pushing or lobbying. I haven't fucked another man I read as "as butch as" T since I started seeing him. I didn't even realize I was doing that.

This is happening to me as well.

Even a slut only has one Daddy.

 

[Netzach]

"That's what the front door is for" seems somewhat ultimatumish to me. It's like saying "I will withdraw my love if you hurt me".

Understandable? Totally. Most of us feel the same desire to do something in reaction. I know I do.

It depends. It could be ultimatum-y or non punishing as in "I have boundaries, you have found them, sorry we cannot play."

 

[ataxia.girl]

What happens with me matters and what happens with them is genitals and acting out and your own little adventure, whatever. Arrogant and possibly delusional, but that's how I feel about it.

Yeah that is kinda my Daddy's stance. After it didn't have the desired effect i lost the desire to do it.

By saying you want me to be faithful you expose a weakness and i will poke at it to see just how weak that weakness is. i'm looking for someone strong. Someone i can count on when i lose my mind. Not IF i lose my mind, WHEN i lose it. i do not trust myself to remain constant so i look for someone who will be constant for me, someone to tether me to reality before i fall so far down the rabbit hole i can't get back out again.