[civil liberties] bombing suspect not to be mirandized

[NightL]

Our angst for the boy. And its despicable.

or is it just angst about the boy? Is confusion and attempting to apply logic in order to grasp some understanding of what seems to be illogical really despicable?

Blind rage and anger won't stop it from happening again.

Is one person's anger over this superior to another's confusion? Questioning and careful analysis may head off future similar events. Blind rage will just have more innocent people caught in the cross-fire yet again.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You flatter yourself JBJ. People aren't pissed off with you nor did you touch any nerves. Everyone here (but you) can see that you pick and choose what you want to see and then run with it in an ATTEMPT to piss people off. There's a big difference in attempting and succeeding.

If I had the power to influence people theyd all send me money. You say I pick and choose what I see, and I say I see the ambivalence expressed in posts (in psychiatric jargon...I see your big BUT). Your post, for example, implies that you can read minds, and since I know you cant, I assume that youre a wee bit psychotic....that is, delusional about your power of observation.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Oh JBJ. You got me pegged! No wonder they pay you the big bucks.

I'm so proud of you, sitting around running down your clock with such aplomb and faux- intellectualism while still maintaining a fearless keyboard warrior persona on a sex forum! Bravo!

What are you depressed about?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

*lays down on the couch*

Wait. How much do you charge per hour? I'm not sure I can afford your great wisdom and expertise.

I tossed you a freebie. Youre depressed, its obvious to me. So deal with it in your own way.

I don't use a couch, I use ordeal therapy for a session or two, and cut people loose to drive their own bus. Think of it as a large needle in the ass.

 

[NightL]

JBJ please don't lose sight of what the thread is about.

Back to the subject of the thread - do respect people will need to work through this horrendous event in ways that are important to them.

While you may focus on the victims, others will be concerned that this could happen again and will seek understanding on that level. That does not mean in the slightest that they are being ambivalent toward the victims.

To start criticising others for their concerns risks turning this into a forum of self. You are not more important than any one else. While I respect your sympathy and outrage for the loss of life and horrendous injuries suffered, I also respect a discussion on how best truth and understanding be sort.

I am sure everyone who has contributed to this thread, including yourself, are united in not wanting to see this happening again.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

*laugh* Ordeal therapy huh. Well JBJ reading your dribble is an ordeal in itself. Consider me driving my own bus! Yay! Cured!

One mans junk, another mans treasure.

 

[Lord Pmann]

One mans junk, another mans treasure.

Oh boy, you just cured her. All you had to do was starting talking about a man's junk and you'd put her in a better mood.

 

[silverwhisper]

o dear god, people, please stop feeding the troll. it just encourages him & annoys everyone else.

rainshine: i think the word you want is "drivel".

ed

 

[silverwhisper]

ah, so linguistically you're impugning both the quality of his commentary as well as his manhood...well played!

ed

 

[1Browneyedguy]

In addition to what Cathleen posted

He ( white cap) placed a knapsack in front of the guy whose legs were blown off some 2 1/2 minutes later, looked him in the face, he can identify him.

THIRTY ! people have lost various limbs. They ran out of tourniquets, they had to use whistle lanyards.

He went to school the next day and partied that night

He and his brother, drove around that night of the gunfight, looking for another place w/ crowds to set off another bomb. They also shot that MIT Policeman sitting in his patrol car in cold blood.

 

[imemkay]

The White House just said he will not be treated as an enemy combatant, but will be prosecuted through our civilian justice system.

 

[BertrandRussell]

There is a difference between not being read Miranda rights and not having Miranda rights.

I'm fine with them not reading him his Miranda rights, just as long as those unread rights are preserved.

From the cops' point of view, it is a trade-off. They are afraid that threre may be more bombs and more than just two bombers. And they want him to tell them if there are more of either. If they Mirandize him, he can be prosecuted for what he says. So he is not likely to say anything.

But if they don't Mirandize him, he can tell them what they want to know at no cost. So he is more likely to be cooperative.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

We've lost our way.

Most of the time the mob has the right man. Folks who fret about Miranda fear the day theyre outted for their own treacheries.

 

[silverwhisper]

bertrand russell quoth:
there is a difference between not being read miranda rights and not having miranda rights.

i'm fine with them not reading him his miranda rights, just as long as those unread rights are preserved.

from the cops' point of view, it is a trade-off. they are afraid that there may be more bombs and more than just two bombers. and they want him to tell them if there are more of either. if they mirandize him, he can be prosecuted for what he says. so he is not likely to say anything.

but if they don't mirandize him, he can tell them what they want to know at no cost. so he is more likely to be cooperative.

i'm not so sure the difference is quite as significant as you suggest. being interrogated by the FBI is not the same thing as a forum debate or a Q&A with an inquisitive family member. a professional who sweats people as part of his/her day job is going to be very, very effective. and in order to exercise and gain the full benefit of those protections, one has to be aware of them, no?

since AG holder has already stated anything tsarnaev says is admissible, the failure to remind him of his rights is to me quite problematic.

with respect, i believe you are arguing expediency/exigent circumstances trump civil liberties. assuming this interpretation is correct: i think any erosion of civil liberties is deeply problematic.

i'm even more troubled that people are so willing to forego these same protections. would these folks have been so understanding under w's administration, i wonder?

ed

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dear Reader

The Boston Massacre is no Whodunnit as our resident Terrorist Worshippers paint it, its not Dan & Steve, the Czech Brothers, lost in the big city during their American Adventure Tour. Its simple mass murder and mayhem inflicted on innocent lives by two evil men who are known to everyone.

 

[Bottomlover]

This American citizen probably knows his rights, and not reading him a few sentences will at the most make some of what he says inadmissible at trial. If he is such a radical tough guy, he should easily be able to tell the police and FBI to fuck off until he has a lawyer (who will undoubtedly tell him to keep quiet.) The need for public safety information outweighs some statements not being allowed at trial, as they must be certain that they have plenty of other evidence to convict him with.

I think that he must be tried in a normal civilian court. Following our Constitution and affording even an asshole like this the rights of every American sends a stronger message to those who hate our way of life.

A lynching may or may not give the victims some comfort, but they will just get it a bit later after the legal process is finished.

 

[silverwhisper]

i agree with most of what you have to say, bottomlover.

ed

 

[NightL]

Its simple mass murder

I gather the suspects involved in the mass murder of school children, office workers and shoppers in your country are read their Miranda rights. So have you changed your mind now and believe this is a right for the surviving brother as it is just a "simple mass murder"? So does this now make you our resident mass murderer worshipper?

Do you always like to run at the rear of whatever mob you feel is the safest?

While I don't live in your country I very much agree with "Following our Constitution and affording even an asshole like this the rights of every American sends a stronger message to those who hate our way of life."

 

[Emerson40]

It is tough, when the bruising from these sort of terrible events is still so fresh, to remember all the things that make where you live and raise you family so great, be it the US, UK, Canada, Australia - doesn’t matter. Some of these things are rights and freedoms that are there for all, and due process of law, which is for everyone regardless of age, sex, color, number of victims, or means by which you carried out heinous actions. It can be tough to appreciate - especially by those who are closest to these tragedies - when you see the scale of destruction and loss, and there is apparent and clear evidence.

The time to apply the strong blow of justice is at sentencing and the assigned punishment for the crimes one is found guilty of, after due process. As tempting as it is to want to make exceptions in these extreme cases and start punishing the offenders at apprehension, this starts things down a slippery slope that move us a little bit closer to societies where “trials” are held behind closed doors, hands are lopped off for stealing a loaf of bread, and girls are stoned for seeking education or smiling at a boy. I think even just one, tiny step in that direction is a step in the wrong direction.

The responsibility of upholding equal rights, freedoms, and justice for all is toughest of all during times like the marathon bombings, recent mass shootings, and other horrible crimes committed against the innocent, but it is the maintenance of this responsibility that affords us the rights and freedoms we all enjoy, come to expect, and at times take for granted.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Bramblethorn]

Emerson - I like to read what you write.

P.S. Your avatar scares me.

It's from "Pan's Labyrinth". One of the creepiest scenes in any movie I've watched.