Defining erotica

[menova]

Cute story

 

[Noira]

Once upon a time, I read the explanation.

Porn uses story to get to the sex.
Erotica uses sex to get to the story.

And it's the one I stuck to.

They might both be sexual, might both be intended to arouse, but they have a different way of getting there.

And for someone to decide BDSM is... porn and not erotic... eh, yeah, whatever, that's your opinion. On the contrary, I think it can be highly erotic and not just pornographic... very storytelling... but then, my definition of porn vs erotica might be different than other people's and my opinion of what's interesting is different... and... well, does it matter?

Opinions are subjective. The stories on here will likely all contain sex and many will be porn-y. Does it matter? Not really. It just makes it harder to find less porn-y stories and more... story stories, just containing sex.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Once upon a time, I read the explanation.

Porn uses story to get to the sex.
Erotica uses sex to get to the story.

And it's the one I stuck to.

They might both be sexual, might both be intended to arouse, but they have a different way of getting there.

And for someone to decide BDSM is... porn and not erotic... eh, yeah, whatever, that's your opinion. On the contrary, I think it can be highly erotic and not just pornographic... very storytelling... but then, my definition of porn vs erotica might be different than other people's and my opinion of what's interesting is different... and... well, does it matter?

Opinions are subjective. The stories on here will likely all contain sex and many will be porn-y. Does it matter? Not really. It just makes it harder to find less porn-y stories and more... story stories, just containing sex.

That's a good way of looking at it. And yeah, I think it does matter. I think that porn is intended to sexually arouse, and erotica is the literature of sex, and I think that matters a lot in discussing this stuff and assessing whether an author's accomplished what they set out to do and in how we approach the whole subject.

For example, I think that porn hasn't changed much since since it was first developed. The basic technique is the same. It's descriptive literature. It simply describes sex in order to titillate. Erotica has changed and developed going all the way back to the Egyptians through classical times and the middle ages, Freudianism and modernism and the women's movement. Originally syncretic, it's now analytic. It probably doesn't matter to the author what he calls the stuff he writes, but to the person trying to understand it, I think it's kind of critical.

 

[Black Tulip]

Once upon a time, I read the explanation.

Porn uses story to get to the sex.
Erotica uses sex to get to the story.

And it's the one I stuck to.

They might both be sexual, might both be intended to arouse, but they have a different way of getting there.

And for someone to decide BDSM is... porn and not erotic... eh, yeah, whatever, that's your opinion. On the contrary, I think it can be highly erotic and not just pornographic... very storytelling... but then, my definition of porn vs erotica might be different than other people's and my opinion of what's interesting is different... and... well, does it matter?

Opinions are subjective. The stories on here will likely all contain sex and many will be porn-y. Does it matter? Not really. It just makes it harder to find less porn-y stories and more... story stories, just containing sex.

As a matter of fact, I think that's a good way of getting the basics down.
I like it.

This thread started out as a discussion for writerly types. So, if you think the difference irrelevant as a reader ... butt out.
Sorry, had to say it.

When writing a story it's important to know if you achieved your goal. Or why you didn't. This kind of discussion is helpful in turning your mind to new points of view and it's always good to hear from the public. But ... you wouldn't tell a surgeon it's not important what kind of needle he uses to stitch you up, would you?

 

[The_Trouvere]

I like to think that what I write is erotica, rather than pornography. I avoid the use of obscene words and vulgar expressions. I try to write with plausibility, emotional depth, and psychological insight. In most of my stories sexual intercourse does not happen. When it does happen it happens between non-related adults. It arouses feelings of guilt, jealousy, and the fear of unwanted pregnancy. My stories do not get the highest ratings. This may be because they are not consequence free fantasies to think about while masturbating. Nevertheless, they are consistent with my tastes and values. Because others share my tastes and values, I sometimes get complimentary comments.

 

[Jedikool]

I like to think that what I write is erotica, rather than pornography. I avoid the use of obscene words and vulgar expressions. I try to write with plausibility, emotional depth, and psychological insight. In most of my stories sexual intercourse does not happen. When it does happen it happens between non-related adults. It arouses feelings of guilt, jealousy, and the fear of unwanted pregnancy. My stories do not get the highest ratings. This may be because they are not consequence free fantasies to think about while masturbating. Nevertheless, they are consistent with my tastes and values. Because others share my tastes and values, I sometimes get complimentary comments.

Whether they get high ratings or not doesn't matter. You have to write what you want to write. I would like to think of mine as erotica, but honestly they may be more porn. I have a general story where characters are driven by motives, but a lot of the time sex takes the center stage, so I don't know what I'm writing sometimes. I just write what I want to write.

 

[psycheros]

As I reflect on the nature of erotica, I find myself exploring differences, which are at the core of any definition. Only making a distinction between the erotic and the pornographic is too simplistic, so I also make a distinction between erotic writing and scientific writing. After all, I don't think I've ever read the words "The male and female copulated by the beach" in any story, even though that's what's going on!

That being said, I'd like to go out on a limb and say that science writing and porn writing share something in common that helps me understand the nature of the erotic: science goes directly from eyes to brain; porn goes directly from eyes to dick (I'm a male). For me, erotica take the scenic route, and ends up going passing through both, and I never really see the destination until I get there.

What I do know is that it feels different for me when I write porn, science and erotica; it's a very different experience, and none of these 3 types of writing are mutually exclusive. My world of erotica is big enough for cocks and pussies and sunsets and secrets and even a few hormones tossed in for good measure... I guess I want them all for my experience as a reader or a writer to be called "erotic".

 

[Dragonlipz]

The bikini barista at the expresso stand

(My latest muse) defines erotica as: 'that which turns you on'. She was quite emphatic on that point. She holds forth on specifics: "For big-titted girls, like me, prints (polka-dots in particular) arouse men more than stripes except when the stripes are less than 1/2" in width. Then all bets are off......

 

[andy_charles]

I guess it's probably easier to define visual erotica and visual porn because it's right there for us. We either see the cock or we don't. Written words have a habit of confusing and confounding any argument at any time.

In my opinion, erotica should always, always, always put the story first, else it doesn't work in any of the ways it's supposed to, either as entertainment or as titilation. The obvious ingredient is of course the sex scene but where to put it and how much of it to put in? That depends on how much you as a writer are willing to write (or feel capable of writing). This will also define how "pornographic" your erotica is.

 

[xssve]

"Porn uses story to get to the sex.
Erotica uses sex to get to the story.
" Excellent working definition, I think the general consensus, (sort of) in a previous thread as stated by Dr. M., if I'm not mistaken, was that Porn appeals to the readers physiology, erotica appeals the reader psychologically and emotionally.

My previous definition has always been "porn makes you want to masturbate, erotica makes you want to go out and get the real thing" - paraphrased, from book review I read, and presented unattributed.

To my collection, I add the most recent courtesy of Verdad, from an informal study on porn addiction:

"Porn" for the purposes of this study was defined as "any picture or video you suddenly lose interest in after masturbating."

Which adequately describes most porn, although I have to admit, "Crazy Cam Slut Fucks Her Bed" still haunts my imagination.

 

[sr71plt]

"Porn uses story to get to the sex."

Porn doesn't require a story at all.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

"Porn uses story to get to the sex."

Porn doesn't require a story at all.

Which sadly makes it frightfully dull most of the time.

 

[sr71plt]

Depending on what the reader came looking for. One can't speak for all.

 

[sweetlizzy]

An interesting legal challenge on the publication of written obscenity has been thrown out by a UK court, today.

The defendant wrote a fantasy blog story based on the rape and murder of the members of the Girls Aloud pop group has had his 'obscenity' case dismissed by a UK court, today, on the grounds that the story he wrote was not easily accessible to people who might be unduly influenced by it.

See story on Ananova at: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3381565.html

 

[JoshuaGlynn]

I was chatting with someone the other day and he thought of it from a point of story focus...

in a porn story... the focus is the sex... everything about the story is to get to the sex, and sometimes the story needn't be there at all... just the sex... maybe a little "they fell on to the bed" then go for it!!!

in Erotica... the focus is the story... what is going on in their world? how did they get here... how did they fall in love... these are questions asked in various Erotic stories... If the sex is removed... is there still a story?? could there be?

I'm working on my second erotic novel... and the one thing I realized after talking with him... if I took out all of the sex... I would still have good stories.... they are both romance / action books... but they could still hold up...

my $.02

Josh

 

[sr71plt]

I was chatting with someone the other day and he thought of it from a point of story focus...

in a porn story... the focus is the sex... everything about the story is to get to the sex, and sometimes the story needn't be there are all... just the sex... maybe a little "they fell on to the bed" then go for it!!!

in Erotica... the focus is the story... what is going on in their world? how did they get here... how did they fall in love... these are questions asked in various Erotic stories... If the sex is removed... is there still a story?? could there be?

I'm working on my second erotic novel... and the one thing I realized after talking with him... if I took out all of the sex... I would still have good stories.... they are both romance / action books... but they could still hold up...

my $.02

Josh

Seems as good a definition as any I've heard/seen.

 

[Fantasies_only]

Note added by moderator:
The discussion stemmed from another regarding character descriptions:
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23968591&postcount=13




This is an erotica site, not a porn site. Literotica, get it?

That line is copied from my post.
Voyeurism, exhibitionism (in full or in part), hand to genital contact (of self or of others), hand or object to skin (surface only), not penetration or full body contact (can include genital to genital contact if on surface).
Erotica is sensual, not sexual.
Sometimes the word "innuendo" has sexual attached, but it's really sensual or "suggestive innuendo".
Intimacy doesn't turn into sex until the partners interact.

 

[Fantasies_only]

An interesting legal challenge on the publication of written obscenity has been thrown out by a UK court, today.

The defendant wrote a fantasy blog story based on the rape and murder of the members of the Girls Aloud pop group has had his 'obscenity' case dismissed by a UK court, today, on the grounds that the story he wrote was not easily accessible to people who might be unduly influenced by it.

See story on Ananova at: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3381565.html

Speaking about cases.
Here's an artistic expression case for you:
U.S. Manga Obscenity Conviction Roils Comics World

The PROTECT Act states: "To be child pornography, a reasonable person must not be able to distinguish the image from real life."
Please sign this so nobody misinterprets what this actually means:

Petition to amend child pornography law‏

If the youthful image appears as if it can exist in life (AKA, looks like a photograph) with the appearance of the norm (not cartoony like Cinderella), it may be considered child pornography unless the parent of said image can prove in a court of law or to police officers he or she consented for the creation and display of such an image.

Non humans (and most animation) outside of reality (eg: anime/hentai) are exempt from the previous PROTECT Act.
A non human has 3 or more of the following characteristics:

• The child or prepubescent has an exposed foot with no toes.
• The child or prepubescent has more than 2 arms or legs.
• The child or prepubescent was born or created without 5 digits on each hand.
• The child or prepubescent has abnormal body or head proportions (breast implants or stuffed clothing don't count).
• The child or prepubescent does not have all normal facial features.
• The child or prepubescent has tentacles or wings.
• The child or prepubescent does not have all genitalia.
• The child or prepubescent has green, blue, purple, orange, or fire-engine red flesh or hide, or has scales of any color.

Even if none of the above criteria matches, the image must look fully human to be pornographic.

 

[sweetlizzy]

I was chatting with someone the other day and he thought of it from a point of story focus...

in a porn story... the focus is the sex... everything about the story is to get to the sex, and sometimes the story needn't be there at all... just the sex... maybe a little "they fell on to the bed" then go for it!!!

in Erotica... the focus is the story... what is going on in their world? how did they get here... how did they fall in love... these are questions asked in various Erotic stories... If the sex is removed... is there still a story?? could there be?



Josh

The introduction of new words in our dictionaries, along with definitions of established words occurs frequently, as common usage changes, but has not yet resulted in a clearer understanding of the defined boundaries of what, in written material, is erotic and what is pornographic.

My understanding, and perhaps someone can clarify this if I am wrong, is that there there has not been a successful prosecution of any written erotic/pornographic material in the last ten years or more, in either the USA or the UK, where it is demonstrated that reasonable steps have been taken by the author and publisher to warn prospective readers that the material is not to be accessed by minors.

It seems that juries have been inclined to throw out prosecutions for obscenity, in these cases, and that the law has fallen into disuse; although it has not been repealed; in line with changes with public attitudes.

Occasional cases are still being brought before the courts (see my post, above, re the 'Girls Aloud' verdict) to test the relevance of the law to electronic publishing on the internet, in extreme cases of fantasised rape and murder, but courts are even reluctant to prosecute cases like these, nowadays.

Which makes me wonder if there is any meaningful, difference between what is erotic and what is pornographic in published adult written material any more?

 

[xssve]

That line is copied from my post.
Voyeurism, exhibitionism (in full or in part), hand to genital contact (of self or of others), hand or object to skin (surface only), not penetration or full body contact (can include genital to genital contact if on surface).
Erotica is sensual, not sexual.
Sometimes the word "innuendo" has sexual attached, but it's really sensual or "suggestive innuendo".
Intimacy doesn't turn into sex until the partners interact.

I don't believe graphic description alone is a valid criteria, true, too graphic descriptions squick some people out, but I think the idea that erotic tells a story gets a little more to the point - i.e., there is such a thing as graphic erotica.

 

[Fantasies_only]

"Graphic erotica" as you put it only means too much erotica not intense erotica which is pornography.

 

[squarejohn]

The lyrics of the song say,

"In olden days a glimpse of stocking,
was looked on as something shocking...."

Like some other folks on here, I can remember when graphic depictions of sex were absolutely illegal. What some call erotica these days--D.H. Lawrence type stuff--was as graphic as the law (barely) allowed. If anybody from that era had been exposed suddenly to the stories posted here, they probably would have orgasmed halfway through any one of them, if they hadn't fluttered their eyes and fainted dead away from the shock.

It's okay with me if someone wants to write what they term "erotica." Nobody cares much for purple prose and stilted dialogue that "suggests," sexual action or desire. People who appreciate reading real literature, have probably read most of the standard list of literature at least once. But when they have galloping gonads, the turn to the "dirty" stories published here and elsewhere. Hardcore stuff existed, but it was hard to find and always used in secret.

A pretty young lady dressed in an evening gown, playing a J.S. Bach recorder solo, strikes me as being erotic. The same young lady on her knees, sucking cock, is not necessarily erotic, but it can be delightfully pornographic. I believe "pornographic" is what most readers and writers are looking for on this site.

I have nine stories published here. They won't qualify as "great literature" because they were written for the purpose of exciting sexually the reader to the point of causing masturbation; and according to the feedback I received, they did just that. The reader's happy and I'm happy.

The writers who publish on this site are the ones providing the owner of the site with content. Sites with content draw visitors, some of whom purchase the hardcore porn that is unobtrusively advertised here. The site owners make money and the visitors obtain jerk-off material. Everybody's happy.

So the snotty criticism comparing the stories posted here to the "great works" of some obscure Victorian era writer is entirely out of place. As a nationally published writer, I know that writing is a tough game. A lot of the people who publish here are serious about becoming professional writers on some level, and they should be encouraged rather than derided by English majors whose only accomplishment is gettin an "A" on their term paper.

 

[Edmasterful]

Erotica vs Pornography

Erotica is when you like it!

 

[poledancer07]

Very Well Explained!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PeterFrancisM]

When I'm writing, there has to be an internal logic to why my characters do what they do. The sex is the point of the story, but it has to at least appear "reasonable" that they should behave in that way. But it is a very subjective judgement and one person's porn will always be another's erotica.
I'd be interested to know whether others feel, as I do, that there is a distinction in approach between Anglo-Saxon erotica/porn and the European view. I can speak for French and Spanish and I do see a difference.