Definition of Underage Sexual Activity

[TadOverdon]

No word that contains "baby" in any form will pass as a keyword. Babysitter, baby-maker, babydoll... nuffin'.

Thanks for the heads-up. The first two chapters of our currently-posting book use "baby" as a term of endearment three times, and have been published without any delay, but doing a word-search I see that it's used twenty times more throughout. I'll go through and proactively eliminate it.

 

[lovecraft68]

There isn't necessarily any problem with using those words in your stories; you just can't use them as tags. You can't use them to draw a crowd to your work

No word that contains "baby" in any form will pass as a keyword. Babysitter, baby-maker, babydoll... nuffin'.

Babysitter

https://search.literotica.com/?query=babysitter

Babydoll


https://search.literotica.com/?query=babydoll

Baby

https://search.literotica.com/?query=baby

Teen

https://search.literotica.com/?query=teen

18/19 is teen and of age...but if you really wanted to discourage people posting underage stories....13-17 is teen as well.

Rape...lit does not allow it. But authors can be sneaky, however, if you don't want to encourage rape stories, wouldn't you boot it in a title and tag like you site yahoos are claiming other things are booted 'automatically"

https://search.literotica.com/?query=rape

Now some of these can be within the 'victim enjoys it" rule, some can have different context(I saw on "loving a rape victim" but just look at the tags and titles...please. If even 40% of these are "real rape" that's way too many to ;slip through'

Laurel can't read every story or we'd never get anything posted, but FFS when the word rape or teen or baby etc..is in the title or tag? A simple program can kick them out...same way somehow "15 year old car" will get booted because something saw 15 years old

The truth is, what myself and anyone who is not deluded or afraid to admit it, knows, the site doesn't care what's here, a click is a click, they claim the rules so they can boot a story at their whim.

What I don't understand is....

Why claim you have a rule if you have no intention of enforcing it to the best of your ability
Why even have these rules at all when nothing is illegal in fiction?

I know the answer to the second one is owner preference, that's fine, but it brings us back to one...why is it so blatantly not enforced?

Another excuse has been LE...underage stories bring Pedos Rape brings rapists(not exactly, its a kink, but serial rapists all own a ton of rape porn and stories on their devices) I get that thinking but here we go again....if rape and teen are allowed in titles and tags and lit shows up at the top of searches...guess who is coming to the site and guess who is following them? if LE even bothers, who knows? Point is its another lie shot down by simple poof of site content.

Lastly is why do you, who is an obviously intelligent person-and others continue this game of going "but there's rules" when its easily proven that there isn't, at least not anything more than whim and lip service.

One more...if the site is so concerned with things they don't want why is it next to impossible to find the rules? I saw a post where someone went step by step to find that killer muffin post that gives a run down of the rules.

You want rules, but bury them? And although my understanding is that old KM post had Laurel's approval...its still a poster putting it out there, not the site, so people could just be like, yeah well, they don't run the place.

I'll never tell someone to write something here that the site even supposedly doesn't want, but I'll be damned if I'll tell them they can't, and its not allowed, there's enough people making fools of themselves doing that I don't need to be another one.

Be better off if they just allowed everything, or did a sister site like they did way back and allow certain things there.

 

[TadOverdon]

Ah, keywords. Thanks. I'll plead Reading Impairment Before Coffee.

 

[oggbashan]

Not enforced?

I think it is solely due to the sheer number of stories submitted every day and the size of the archive.

If readers report a story, it is likely to be removed, but not otherwise.

If a story doesn't show issues on a quick, probably automated, scan, it could get through because Laurel is overworked.

How many of us bother to report a story for under 18 if we find one?

As far as the threat from moral campaigners is concerned? Having the rule is probably enough. If they find anything they find objectionable, and report it? Laurel will remove that story.

 

[SimonDoom]

What I don't understand is....

Why claim you have a rule if you have no intention of enforcing it to the best of your ability
Why even have these rules at all when nothing is illegal in fiction?

I know the answer to the second one is owner preference, that's fine, but it brings us back to one...why is it so blatantly not enforced?

.

Why should they? Why does it matter? It's their rule, to enforce their preference, and they may feel that by having the rule they sufficiently deter the submission of stories they find objectionable. If somebody reports a story, they can remove it later.

Laurel has to screen over 100 stories a day, and I think the number is growing. I cannot imagine doing what she does, every day. It would be surprising if she was able to strictly enforce the content rules.

It's like having a speed limit of 65 mph on the highway. You don't strictly enforce it. You enforce it enough so people more or less go the speed that you want them to. A lot of people get away with driving 75 or even 80 or more, but it doesn't mean the system doesn't work, or is bad, or is unfair.

 

[KeithD]

Why should they? Why does it matter? It's their rule, to enforce their preference, and they may feel that by having the rule they sufficiently deter the submission of stories they find objectionable. If somebody reports a story, they can remove it later.

Laurel has to screen over 100 stories a day, and I think the number is growing. I cannot imagine doing what she does, every day. It would be surprising if she was able to strictly enforce the content rules.

It's like having a speed limit of 65 mph on the highway. You don't strictly enforce it. You enforce it enough so people more or less go the speed that you want them to. A lot of people get away with driving 75 or even 80 or more, but it doesn't mean the system doesn't work, or is bad, or is unfair.

Legally, they are in a much better position having the rule and to be able to point to attempts to enforce it, with limited misses, than not having a rule and not able to show any attempt to enforce it. Amazon does much the same. It's not really in the authors' interests for draconian enforcement to be applied. For one thing, it will slow the process down significantly.

Authors could always concentrate on their own work and not worry so much what other authors are managing to do. If I thought Literotica was hosting what I couldn't stomach my work being associated with, I would just post my stories somewhere else. It's routinely posting categories--very popular categories--I don't like. I let them do their thing because Literotica lets me do my thing here too.

 

[lovecraft68]

As good of a place as any to post this little Public service announcement seeing the topic

Apparently some idiots on Smashwords have been using photos of underage models for their erotica covers.

As Coker says in the message-4/23 update-this should be common sense not to do it, but...

I doubt anyone here would, but if you happen to see something like that, report it. Its hard enough to publish erotica for sale these days, it doesn't need this kind of crap going on to upset paypal and CC companies

https://www.smashwords.com/about/updates

 

[SimonDoom]

Legally, they are in a much better position having the rule and to be able to point to attempts to enforce it, with limited misses, than not having a rule and not able to show any attempt to enforce it. Amazon does much the same. It's not really in the authors' interests for draconian enforcement to be applied. For one thing, it will slow the process down significantly.

Authors could always concentrate on their own work and not worry so much what other authors are managing to do. If I thought Literotica was hosting what I couldn't stomach my work being associated with, I would just post my stories somewhere else. It's routinely posting categories--very popular categories--I don't like. I let them do their thing because Literotica lets me do my thing here too.

My thoughts, exactly. They have a few standards, and they make moderate, but not overly stringent, efforts to enforce them. If legal authorities come knocking (unlikely, but who knows today?), they can point to their standards and their moderate efforts. But they don't have to spend all their time filtering out every single non-conforming story. Doing things that way would muck things up for everyone -- them, and us, as authors.

 

[lovecraft68]

My thoughts, exactly. They have a few standards, and they make moderate, but not overly stringent, efforts to enforce them. If legal authorities come knocking (unlikely, but who knows today?), they can point to their standards and their moderate efforts. But they don't have to spend all their time filtering out every single non-conforming story. Doing things that way would muck things up for everyone -- them, and us, as authors.

LE will come knocking soon, but its not going to be the story content, its going to be the ampic threads and threads where people post pictures that have been circulating the net forever and were posted as revenge porn...if you poke around on twitter they call these creeper accounts where some will be pictures of attractive women taken in everyday places then posted on line with captions of "would you fuck this slut"

Porn hub and other sites are preparing for the stricter laws and enforcement by now making people verify their account and that they have permission to post these pictures.

Laurel is not going to want to, or even if she did she's not going to able to, enforce that. her choice will be eliminate those pic threads or risk getting hammered because its going to be the platform not the poster that will be held responsible.

As discussed none of the content she claims she doesn't want can get her in trouble because its fiction, but the pictures are real people being exploited and that is a more serious issue.

One that did rear its head-but before these laws came about-where a man pretending to be a woman and posting "her" pictures everywhere as outed and his wife contacted the site to have the sexually explicit pictures of her removed from the site.

They're all still here and Laurel has lamented about how much she misses the catfishing asshat who posted his wife's pics without permission...GB history lesson there and an indicator of how if this becomes an issue this site is in trouble.

 

[lovecraft68]

Why should they? Why does it matter? It's their rule, to enforce their preference, and they may feel that by having the rule they sufficiently deter the submission of stories they find objectionable. If somebody reports a story, they can remove it later.

Laurel has to screen over 100 stories a day, and I think the number is growing. I cannot imagine doing what she does, every day. It would be surprising if she was able to strictly enforce the content rules.

It's like having a speed limit of 65 mph on the highway. You don't strictly enforce it. You enforce it enough so people more or less go the speed that you want them to. A lot of people get away with driving 75 or even 80 or more, but it doesn't mean the system doesn't work, or is bad, or is unfair.

Well by your logic people should be allowed to steal and as long as they arrest 1 out of 10 they're enforcing the non stealing policy, right?

Laurel can hire a staff, sites that are smaller and less lucrative do it. She could probably get volunteers to help that she could trust.

She could at the very least not allow the key words and titles which is an easy thing to do.

But I do like how the narrative is becoming, well they need to at least say they have it, but don't always have to enforce it, because that's pretty much the game, and Keith is right, amazon does this too.

My thing has always been about the person that had his story booted, then comes here to complain because like I did with a little searching they find countless stoies with the content he was told he couldn't post

And all the yahoos come running "there's rules, there's rules" reeeeeee!

Look further up, RR "nope, no way they allow that word...and look at the links" how dumb can you look?

Then the infamous don't like it leave, like they're wrong for being pissed they were the one in 50 stories that got caught.

I don't have a horse in this race, nothing that is supposedly not allowed here pertains to my writing at least nothing I would put on here because its not the market for it writing wise of a site that has that content, so rule or no rules doesn't phase me.

Lies and people who unwaveringly refuse to believe them are my point.

If you were here longer and hung in the general board when Laurel used to hang out and post all the time(but never on this forum where the people who make her money are) you'd have a different view of this because you'd see the games, and know that she probably laughs her ass off at this endless circle of an argument.

 

[Payne_Hall]

Simon and Lovecraft disagreeing over things in the forum is kind of how I imagine Yoda and Mace Windu disagreed over things, respectively.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I don't have a horse in this race, nothing that is supposedly not allowed here pertains to my writing at least nothing I would waste on here because its not the market for it writing wise of a site that has that content, so rule or no rules doesn't phase me.

You do have a horse in this race in the sense that you're one of the few writers who, I would say, got a pretty good head start on your own commercial publishing activity off the back of your large following here on Lit, off the back of the platform Lit gave you.

You're relentless in your attacks on Lit, including personal attacks on Laurel as the owner, over the inconsistent policing of content you don't like, but have you ever acknowledged the debt you have to Lit for being your launching pad? Once or twice, maybe, but your disdain for the site is far more obvious than any gratitude. But I'm an insecure toady, so what would I know?

Carry on!

 

[AlphaLyon]

Simon and Lovecraft disagreeing over things in the forum is kind of how I imagine Yoda and Mace Windu disagreed over things, respectively.

For real.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't have a horse in this race, .

You and I have this in common (among other things -- we actually agree on most things). None of this affects me in the slightest. I don't give a crap, personally. I don't think you do, either, except you seem to have a bee in your bonnet on non-consent issues, sometimes, and you've got this thing about hypocrisy and inconsistency, which I don't get.

My view is that hypocrisy and inconsistency are the most minor of sins. If Laurel has decided, "You know what, this is my rule, but I'm not going to do a whole lot to enforce it", well, then, I'm OK with that.

Your analogy to stealing doesn't hold up, because stealing actually matters, and the rules Laurel sets down don't matter. They matter to her, I guess, somewhat, but they don't matter in the bigger sense. It makes no difference to the welfare of the world what kinds of porn stories she allows. I truly believe that. I think the hand-wringing over story content at Literotica is completely ridiculous. The notion that the welfare of the world outside might be affected by what Laurel allows to be published in this funky little fictional domain is, in my view, utterly laughable.

I think Payne Hall's Star Wars reference is hilarious. I'd rather be Samuel L. Jackson than that little green muppet, if it's all the same to you. Tell you what, how about if instead of crossing light sabers we just raise some whiskey glasses and say, "Fuck it!"

 

[Bodington]

I want to say from the outset that I am not opposed to Literotica’s proscription of descriptions of sexual activity involving underage persons. In fact I’m in favor of it as it insures that my submissions or even the mere fact that I read stories on Literotica do not expose me to accusations of me indulging in child pornography. I appreciate that such is not an idle concern for Literotica to maintain its existence unhindered from hassles of legal authorities. As an example, some of you may be aware that a certain person who was for a time a ubiquitous spokesman for TV ads for the Subway restaurant chain, is now currently doing time, I believe in an Indiana penitentiary. Lawful authorities had found evidence of child pornography on his computer.

What I’m railing against is the application of this policy. Bear in mind that all the Literotica guideline states is simply: “No sexual activity involving .... underage persons will be considered.” Exactly what does sexual activity mean? I would think that is not a difficult concept for the average person wise or not so wise to comprehend. That is why I was so shocked as stated in my initial posting to discover that my submission was rejected partly from the sentence I cited. I couldn’t possibly have imagined that such sentence even remotely offends Literotica’s policy.

As I stated before I was supplied with apparently the official Literotica definition of sexual activity involving underage persons. For convenience I repeat it here: “This includes but is not limited to talking explicitly about sex, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse. This also includes explicit past remembrances, descriptions of an underage person’s body/physical development and/or the reaction of other people to it; references to people under the age of 18 “playing doctor” or “sex education”, and any similar situations.”

BTW I still stand by my contention that such definition had to have been drafted by an attorney. I cannot imagine any person not legally trained who would have come up with such an elongated definition. In any case I could challenge that my offending sentence doesn’t even violate this expanded definition. My sentence does not describe my underage character as fantasizing or imagining a sexual activity. All she’s doing is enjoying a piece of music and that she attributes that to be possibly a sexual attraction.

I notice some of the posters in this thread have suggested work arounds to avoid the rejection, but I can assure you that I’m quite capable of doing just that. I’ve indeed reworded the offending sentence and my chapter has now been accepted for publication on this site.

I believe my main quarrel with Literotica is really having to do with no considerations afforded to the exigencies of the differing categories of stories available for submissions. With two exceptions, all my submissions have been in the novels and novellas category. My submissions have adhered to the technical definition of a novel i.e. a work of fiction exceeding 100K words.

For a novel to work character development is essential. In a short story describing a sexual experience, not much is needed except in detailing the event. The character or sexual proclivities of the participants are essentially unimportant. Most importantly, what is truly inconsequential is the age of the participants, so that an author has no problem in averring his characters are adults. BTW this is not meant to denigrate the skills necessary to produce a compelling short story that is in essence superior to a novel.

In a novel more is needed in context, when describing a sexual experience or activity. Aside from describing the deed itself, it is necessary to examine why did each character acquiese to the sex, why did they enjoy it, or not enjoy it. This requires more of an accounting of a detailed examination of their prior history, including when they were younger than eighteen years of age.

Nowhere was this more evident than a chapter of mine wherein I described an episode where the mother granted her daughter as a gift for her eighteenth birthday a weekend frolic in an orgy at a swingers sex club. After protracted negotiations of what is permissible in describing the antics of the character prior to her eighteenth birthday, the chapter was accepted for publication about ten years ago.

To my astonishment seven years later i.e. four years ago, I was notified that this particular chapter has been rejected for violation of the policy forbidding description of underage sexual activity. I surmised that this unexpected latent decision must have resulted from a negative report rendered by an irrate reader. After reworking the chapter a new time, the same was now still not acceptable. In exasperation I wrote that I was not making any further revisions. I pointed out that there was no graphic description of any sexual activity the character had prior to her eighteenth birthday. The only description of underage sex was the statement she was promiscuous in sex during her two years prior to her eighteenth birthday. Such description was necessary to impart to the reader in order to make the story line of the chapter more plausible. Happily as a result, the chapter was restored to the lineup of that novel.

 

[XerXesXu]

I notice some of the posters in this thread have suggested work arounds to avoid the rejection, but I can assure you that I’m quite capable of doing just that. I’ve indeed reworded the offending sentence and my chapter has now been accepted for publication on this site.

I believe my main quarrel with Literotica is really having to do with no considerations afforded to the exigencies of the differing categories of stories available for submissions. l.

A happy ending then.

I find your style of writing intriguing. I ran your post through IWriteLike and it came back with Arthur C Clarke. I get that, it is a bit out of this world. Every other author I've done this with has come back as Agatha Christie - which seems to mean they write in English.

I put your first page of Mothers and Daughters through it too - happily, Agatha Christie. You obviously have a different persona when writing creativly.

I noted the first paragraph of MandDs:

'Vera Starikovich grew up in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, a small town just south of the state capital of Jackson. In July, in the year when she was still 13 years old, she realized that she was pregnant. Although very young and perhaps naive she nevertheless was savvy enough to ascertain her condition by herself. Because she had missed two periods, aware of being unduly nauseous and noticing her breasts and nipples were more sore and tender than usual; she bought a home pregnancy test which confirmed her suspicions.'

I can see why you wonder at perceived inconsistency.

But let's cut to the chase; what is this piece of music which arouses slumbering sexual arousal in girls. I'll hum it down the pub tonight; see if it works.

 

[Bodington]

A happy ending then....
But let's cut to the chase; what is this piece of music which arouses slumbering sexual arousal in girls. I'll hum it down the pub tonight; see if it works.

Thank you for your kind words. The name of the piece of music is Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No 5 in E minor which you can find on Youtube and listen to it. See for one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4R9b-Bma9o

By the time you get to read this posting the first chapter should be available on this site, and you will find a suggestion why my heroine would find this music sexually alluring. The title of my novel is Ingrid’s Dark Secret Passion. Good luck in trying to hum this music at the pub.

 

[RejectReality]

*sigh*

The discussion was very specifically about Tags. They are automatically kicked, and there's no context allowance whatsoever.

If you enter the string "baby" or "rape" anywhere in a tag, it's not going to allow you to submit.

You'll notice that even includes the word "Grape". Therapeutics. Drapes. Skyskraper. Parapet. All going to get kicked.

 

[XerXesXu]

Thank you for your kind words. The name of the piece of music is Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No 5 in E minor which you can find on Youtube and listen to it. See for one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4R9b-Bma9o

By the time you get to read this posting the first chapter should be available on this site, and you will find a suggestion why my heroine would find this music sexually alluring. The title of my novel is Ingrid’s Dark Secret Passion. Good luck in trying to hum this music at the pub.

I've got an MP3 player and bluetooth speaker.

 

[XerXesXu]

*sigh*

The discussion was very specifically about keywords. .

OP
I have currently submitted to Literotica some chapters for a new novel I’ve written. The first chapter is rejected on the basis that Literotica does not accept submissions involving any sexual activity involving underage persons. In rejecting my story the moderator was kind enough to explain the expanded definition of “stories involving sexual activity involving underage persons” as far as it seems Literotica is concerned.

I quote: “This includes but is not limited to talking explicitly about sex, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse. This also includes explicit past remembrances, descriptions of an underage person’s body/physical development and/or the reaction of other people to it; references to people under the age of 18 “playing doctor” or “sex education”, and any similar situations.”

Not that very specifically though.

 

[RejectReality]

I suppose I should have quoted him, but that was a response to LC's response to my clarification of something someone else said.

It's not the subject of the thread as stated by the OP, but it was the subject of that little piece of the thread.

OP
I have currently submitted to Literotica some chapters for a new novel I’ve written. The first chapter is rejected on the basis that Literotica does not accept submissions involving any sexual activity involving underage persons. In rejecting my story the moderator was kind enough to explain the expanded definition of “stories involving sexual activity involving underage persons” as far as it seems Literotica is concerned.

I quote: “This includes but is not limited to talking explicitly about sex, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse. This also includes explicit past remembrances, descriptions of an underage person’s body/physical development and/or the reaction of other people to it; references to people under the age of 18 “playing doctor” or “sex education”, and any similar situations.”

Not that very specifically though.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As I stated before I was supplied with apparently the official Literotica definition of sexual activity involving underage persons. For convenience I repeat it here: “This includes but is not limited to talking explicitly about sex, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse. This also includes explicit past remembrances, descriptions of an underage person’s body/physical development and/or the reaction of other people to it; references to people under the age of 18 “playing doctor” or “sex education”, and any similar situations.”

... In any case I could challenge that my offending sentence doesn’t even violate this expanded definition.

"But is not limited to" covers a lot.

In a novel more is needed in context, when describing a sexual experience or activity. Aside from describing the deed itself, it is necessary to examine why did each character acquiese to the sex, why did they enjoy it, or not enjoy it. This requires more of an accounting of a detailed examination of their prior history, including when they were younger than eighteen years of age.

And you can do that here. My latest story here is a novel-length story that talks a fair bit about the two main characters' childhoods. It covers a lot of childhood experiences that are important to the adults they became and the relationship that develops between those adults. Anjali has controlling parents and is guileless, Sarah is obsessive and a perpetual outsider, and is protective of Anjali. Those factors influence how their sexual relationship as adults turns out, but they aren't aren't sexual in themselves, so it's fine to write about them here.

You just can't write directly about under-age sexuality, including sexual thoughts/attraction, at anything past "I lost my virginity at 16" or "I've always known I was queer" level of detail. That does rule some things out, but many writers here have managed to produce novels under those strictures.

 

[KeithD]

That doesn't account for what can be--and is--accepted in mainstream novels and isn't in most erotica sites and marketplace distribution. The difference of what is accepted in publishing and distribution in those two modes is just a fact.

 

[Bodington]

"But is not limited to" covers a lot....

Indeed! It changes from an objective standard into a subjective one. I guess that's really my main objection.

 

[gordo12]

While absolutely clear about and ok with the no-underage rule, I ran into a brick wall today.

I pasted a draft story, intended as the first of a series, when and if. As tags, I included ‘sugar daddy” and ‘sugar baby,’ the latter being a common reference to a young woman who enters into what is essentially a contractual sexual relationship with an older man. ‘Sugar daddy’ flew through with no fuss, but ‘sugar baby’ was rejected, apparently because ‘baby’ is a no-no. That one has me scratching my head, frankly. Oh, well.

Babies in stories are fine as long as nothing is sexual. Baby tags. Not a chance. Mine all got rejected on Homeless, even though it's about a homeless woman with a four-day-old baby. I guess it's to stop the pervs from specifically looking for baby literature.

**********

To the OP. You have no beef with Lit. It's a private site, and they can define things the way they want.

I have a story that delves heavily into the mental issues a woman has due to her father molesting her since she was born. I could simply say she got molested since she was born and (probably?) get it through here. But that reduces the impact of the story. Some dealing with the whole thing has to happen, and I accept it will never appear here. Maybe nowhere else either. Those are the breaks, and I accept them.