Do you believe spanking is an appropriate discipline for a child?

[CutieMouse]

I like the techniques in Parenting with Love and Logic. It's funny to watch the kids turn seven different shades of red when you smile at them and say "I love you to much to argue..."

99 Ways to Drive Your Child Sane is good too, especially for special needs kids.

And your right about the fighting - the natural consequence of picking the wrong sparing partner will drive the message home much quicker than a nagging mom.

Devil's advocate - things like Parenting With Love and Logic don't always work - I've known several absolute ill behaved swear they will end up in jail brats who came out of households that used the techniques in that book.

Mine aren't allowed to hit one another (they also aren't allowed to call each other things like "stupid" or verbally abuse one another). Question - if it's wrong for an adult to hit a child, why is it okay for a child to hit a child?

 

[chy_girl]

Devil's advocate - things like Parenting With Love and Logic don't always work - I've known several absolute ill behaved swear they will end up in jail brats who came out of households that used the techniques in that book.

Mine aren't allowed to hit one another (they also aren't allowed to call each other things like "stupid" or verbally abuse one another). Question - if it's wrong for an adult to hit a child, why is it okay for a child to hit a child?

Love and Logic isn't a fool proof technique and with my child it isn't uncommon to have to switch parenting styles every few months. I like Love and Logic because it affords me the opportunity to get a laugh (far out of the child's hearing) while letting her experience both positive and negative natural consequences.

Name calling isn't OK in my house, nor is physical violence. However, if one of my kiddos is feeling froggy enough to jump (despite the multiple rules of our society) and get their ass kicked my reply runs along the lines of "I'm sorry, that must really suck for you. Now that you've been dealt your natural consequence, lets discuss your logical consequence." Which, depending on the age, will likely include grounding and lots of community oriented physical labor.

Now if someone gets physical with my kid, and my child has gone through the steps outlined in my house, and there's a fight... chances are they won't get in trouble so long as I get some outside confirmation that it was self-defense. I will not have a child so cowed down by fear of repercussion that they won't defend themselves to their fullest ability. Lets face it, violence isn't the best option but it is an option so long you're willing to accept the consequences that come with it.

 

[Ruku5]

i think its ok for one swift smack across the backside. when the child is naughty they need to be punished to learn the boundaries. you cant just dicipline a child by words, or grounding, or taking away thier x-box or computer.
this said.. there is a line where smacking becomes child abuse. some people just dont know where that line is...very very unfortuante for those poor children.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Am I the only child who got the "you're going to get smooshed by cars" message without being hit? A quick explanation of death and go splat may be uncomfortable, but it's pretty effective on kids with vivid imagination.

2 year olds cannot be reasoned with and actually my 3 year old hates holding hands and constantly runs out despite the constant explanations.

It depends on the kid.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I don't have children, but I have been known to pop a niece or nephew on the bum when they are being out right defiant. You know when after you have told them "don't do that" and explained why "that's hot" and they look into your eyes and do it anyway. A firm pop on the bum and some corner time and they are ready to listen. But again, before they come out of time out it's explained to them why that rule is there.

This is my girls and the reason we try to simply not let confrontations\battles start in the first place because once the battle starts you cannot back down.

 

[Bi_Kitty]

I tend to stay out of the talk threads but I can't sleep and just read this thread, so I'm coming in late but as someone who was beat as a child, I say yes. Spankings are appropriate. Beatings are not. There's a difference. A big difference.

Spankings set limits for children because they know if they do something wrong or "bad" they will get punished. Yes, all parents don't use spankings as their way of punishing their children, but whatever way parents choose to punish their children for their misbehaviors the parents should be consistent with it.

And for the love of god, keep your children from acting like wild monkeys in public. Tonight, Bunny and I went to Mellow Mushroom with a friend for dinner and there was a couple in there with at least 5 kids 2 booths behind us. The parents were just letting them run all over the place. They were all in the other booths, screaming, knocking the shakers off the table, and other stuff like that. And what did the parents do? Just sat there and laughed at.

You may think its funny, but we didn't. And you were ruining our dinner. We wasn't disturbing you.

.....and I totally lost whatever I was going to say. Time to get off Lit.

 

[FurryFury]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I don't believe punishment does any good nor do I think it's appropriate. The person who feels a need to be punitive with people, including children, needs to do some soul searching IMO.

That's not to say I don't want to take some people and children in hand when I see them being ridiculous. I do think about it. I'm just mature enough to only think about it. LOL

Discipline, limits and consequences, on the other hand, are very important. A child's soul cries out for these things. They are uncomfortable without them. It is negligent to be a parent and not establish and enforce these things.

Also, the more tools and motivation you can give a child to have self discipline, the better. This is a key part of parenting as well.

 

[graceanne]

Devil's advocate - things like Parenting With Love and Logic don't always work - I've known several absolute ill behaved swear they will end up in jail brats who came out of households that used the techniques in that book.

Mine aren't allowed to hit one another (they also aren't allowed to call each other things like "stupid" or verbally abuse one another). Question - if it's wrong for an adult to hit a child, why is it okay for a child to hit a child?

I detest Parenting with Love and Logic. It just legitimizes passive aggressive behavior. As far as I'm concerned if I'm going to threaten my children I'm going to be honest about it and not try and make it like I'm not. I will say "if you do xy&z you will not be alowwed to do _________", I do not say "Wow, because you did xy&z, I don't have the energy to let you do ___________".

Mine, also, aren't allowed to call each other names and get sentences, or chores, for it. That works, for now. If it stops working I'll find some other way to make my point.

 

[chy_girl]

As far as I'm concerned if I'm going to threaten my children I'm going to be honest about it and not try and make it like I'm not. I will say "if you do xy&z you will not be alowwed to do _________", I do not say "Wow, because you did xy&z, I don't have the energy to let you do ___________".

See, my kiddo gets both statements though the second typically comes in when she keeps whining because I'm mean and won't let her do ______. The second statement tends to turn the cause and effect back on her in a way she (sometimes) finds it hard to argue with. But the reactive attachment disorder might have something to do with that. All depends on the day in my house

 

[intothewoods]

Because you don't have enough energy? I've never read this book.

I don't think there is one effective way to parent. I personally just use the time out method (or take away tv lately), and then I have a few reward type things for incentives.

Still have no idea what this has to do with bdsm. Who I am as a parent has nothing to do with my sexual preferences.

 

[subwannabe]

I'm not going to spend the time reading the replies but thought I would throw in my two cents anyway. I didn't vote because I'm not really thrilled with the way the question was asked or the black and white options of either yes or no. I personally believe that spanking under certain circumstances is not really a bad thing and may sometimes be necessary as along as it isn't listed as a regular option.

I believe along with the experts to a major degree and for their reasoning. However, there has been a very noticeable difference in how kids grow up these days compared with the times when spanking was a lot more common. Kids seem to think they can get away with more and more and disciplining them is harder than ever. They seem to be out of control when they realize that spanking is never an option they have to worry about. I think it is an option that should never be completely taken off the table and even used on rare occasions as long as the spanking is not so severe that it could be labeled abuse. I realize they all situations are different and not everyone would fall into anyone's parameters, including my own.

 

[graceanne]

See, my kiddo gets both statements though the second typically comes in when she keeps whining because I'm mean and won't let her do ______. The second statement tends to turn the cause and effect back on her in a way she (sometimes) finds it hard to argue with. But the reactive attachment disorder might have something to do with that. All depends on the day in my house

I've honestly been known to tell the kids if they make me miserable (with whining or fighting or whatever) I will return the favor.

But I agree with itw - I don't think there's one right type of parenting and all the rest are bad. I do think there are bad types of parenting, but all children are different and how you parent them depends. As I said, I haven't needed to spank my older girl in a long time (and honestly, she's getting too old to spank), because she's that type of child.

 

[graceanne]

Because you don't have enough energy? I've never read this book.

The idea is to turn the consequences so they're their fault. Like 'because I spent so much energy getting you ready for school today I won't have the energy to take you to the park this afternoon'. A lot of what they teach is good; the books is HUGE on consistency and logical consequences and all that. But I just can't bring myself to pretend that the consequence is a natural thing as opposed to 'you didn't act how you're supposed to so now I'm taking a priveledge'. Plus some of the stories that they used to illustrate how to go about this I felt were flat out abusive. Like the parents getting up and going and sitting in the car in the middle of the night because their child keeps getting up and telling the child that they're going to a hotel to sleep. I thought that was abusive and fucked up. I said so, too. But, then, I rate closer to 'attachment parenting' in my style of parenting than anything else and my kids sleep with me pretty often. When K's home they sleep on the floor in our room pretty often.

 

[rinka]

Not appropriate.

I live in a country where every form of spanking your children has been against the law for 30 years now. Based on that and my own experience as a parent I'd say it's definitely not necessary to spank children. Ever. Several has used that term - necessary - in this thread. There are other ways.

Personally I try to raise my kid without punishments, threats, bribes and with extremely few rules. I communicate, we cooperate and muddle through. He's 10 now and has not only survived so far, but is actually really to great to be around.

And I never even smacked him once.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not going to spend the time reading the replies but thought I would throw in my two cents anyway. I didn't vote because I'm not really thrilled with the way the question was asked or the black and white options of either yes or no. I personally believe that spanking under certain circumstances is not really a bad thing and may sometimes be necessary as along as it isn't listed as a regular option.

I believe along with the experts to a major degree and for their reasoning. However, there has been a very noticeable difference in how kids grow up these days compared with the times when spanking was a lot more common. Kids seem to think they can get away with more and more and disciplining them is harder than ever. They seem to be out of control when they realize that spanking is never an option they have to worry about. I think it is an option that should never be completely taken off the table and even used on rare occasions as long as the spanking is not so severe that it could be labeled abuse. I realize they all situations are different and not everyone would fall into anyone's parameters, including my own.

I'm not singling you out, but this gilded age of when kids were good notion is something I have to take issue with. Yes, there are more overt behavioral challenges and issues, however there was a time in the not distant past where children were basically little more than animals to send to work, beat behind closed doors, exploit however you wish, and no one *talked* about anything that happened. I'm not sure that child abuse is anywhere near less frequent than it was, but at least we see it as a *problem* and not just how to handle your children. If children are lacking discipline, how about we look at adults? Seems the parents have even less.

I'm much less worried about whether parents have the right to swat their 2 year old because it's an effective attention-getter than whether the two year old I am watching get swatted in the store gets shaken to death because if his mom is hitting him in front of me, what's she doing NOT in front of me?

The only thing that bothers me more than a screaming nuisance child in public is someone beating on him - because there's no real concern, there's no real boundary as a culture, and it's still seen as not my child not my business.

If it's simply the cluelessness of being the person who hasn't had kids that makes me want to beat up on people I see smacking their children in that spontaneous angry parent way, then I guess I'm just an idealistic fool for siding with the smaller person.

 

[Netzach]

Who I am as a parent has nothing to do with my sexual preferences.

You can't argue that parenting doesn't *warp* a certain percentage of people in a million varied interesting ways, even if it's highly functional and good parenting.

Keeps me in a job anyway.

 

[Firebrain]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[00Syd]

If it's simply the cluelessness of being the person who hasn't had kids that makes me want to beat up on people I see smacking their children in that spontaneous angry parent way, then I guess I'm just an idealistic fool for siding with the smaller person.

I feel the same way.

 

[Netzach]

Interestingly, my mother hit me on a regular basis, my teachers, obviously never.

Guess who I had the trembling awe of when asked to do something?

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not going to spend the time reading the replies but thought I would throw in my two cents anyway. I didn't vote because I'm not really thrilled with the way the question was asked or the black and white options of either yes or no. I personally believe that spanking under certain circumstances is not really a bad thing and may sometimes be necessary as along as it isn't listed as a regular option.

I believe along with the experts to a major degree and for their reasoning. However, there has been a very noticeable difference in how kids grow up these days compared with the times when spanking was a lot more common. Kids seem to think they can get away with more and more and disciplining them is harder than ever. They seem to be out of control when they realize that spanking is never an option they have to worry about. I think it is an option that should never be completely taken off the table and even used on rare occasions as long as the spanking is not so severe that it could be labeled abuse. I realize they all situations are different and not everyone would fall into anyone's parameters, including my own.

I'm 51, and was never spanked, smacked, rapped, or struck in any way.

That assertion in bold is total nonsense. I agree that children need an authority figure whom they trust and respect in order to be well-behaved, but the notion that corporal punishment is required in order to establish trust and respect is just plain asinine.

Hats off to Sweden.

 

[Hoardingenergy]

I behaved as a small child because my father would spank me if I missbehaved. If your child is running into the street, sometimes the only way to get their attention is to spank them. I watched a 3 year old boy, who had only been given timeouts, run into the street and get hit by a car. He was lucky, and survived. Who was at fault?

 

[intothewoods]

You can't argue that parenting doesn't *warp* a certain percentage of people in a million varied interesting ways, even if it's highly functional and good parenting.

Keeps me in a job anyway.

Well, I said my sexual preference. Lol, ok, fair point.

 

[Netzach]

I behaved as a small child because my father would spank me if I missbehaved. If your child is running into the street, sometimes the only way to get their attention is to spank them. I watched a 3 year old boy, who had only been given timeouts, run into the street and get hit by a car. He was lucky, and survived. Who was at fault?

Um, the driver? You should never be going so fast in residential that you can't stop for a dog or kid. This is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I'm talking about adults needing the spankings - watching people in a HUGE hurry on residential streets and people on cell phones, because they're only worried about THEIR kids and THEIR dog.

 

[AbiNormyl]

Um, the driver? You should never be going so fast in residential that you can't stop for a dog or kid. This is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I'm talking about adults needing the spankings - watching people in a HUGE hurry on residential streets and people on cell phones, because they're only worried about THEIR kids and THEIR dog.

This is not always so; not every child lives in a residental area. I live in the country; if i ran out in the street and got hit when I was little I would have been hit by a car going 55 or 60 miles an hour. The same goes for my children though we live on a dirt road instead of a state road. So, don't automatically blame the driver, it isn't always their fault.

 

[intothewoods]

I behaved as a small child because my father would spank me if I missbehaved. If your child is running into the street, sometimes the only way to get their attention is to spank them. I watched a 3 year old boy, who had only been given timeouts, run into the street and get hit by a car. He was lucky, and survived. Who was at fault?

I know a wide range of kids, some terribly behaved and some beyond perfect. None of them have ever been known to dart into the street. Mine is no angel, but he's never run into the street. If I had a child who could break free from me and run into the street on a whim, and refused to listen, I'd probably not let him play near the road alone. I don't know. My kid has never been uncontrollable. It's just inconceivable to me. If you haven't yelled at your kid for every little thing, and then you raise your voice a little with a very firm NO DANGER in these big deal moments, most kids go yikes, that's a mommy reaction I don't know, and it sticks with them. That's what child pscyhologists say and it's always held true for me.

That said, I don't think a calmly administered swat will cripple your child for life or anything. I know a few people who spank whom I respect, and others whom I do not. But I certainly don't think it's required to raise a well-behaved child. That's just silly.