Do You Care If Your Elected Officials Cheat on Their Wives?

[Recidiva]

It's the whole opinions and asshole thing again. Plenty of people will tell you that our alternative sexual practices are immoral. Believe me I've heard it from my own family. I'm sure we've all heard it from a variety of people.

News Flash: There's a Whole Shitload o' Stupid In The World.

We'd have a film at 11, but we couldn't find someone to work the camera as it was too complicated and might steal souls.

 

[intothewoods]

Mine wasn't good, it was stereotypical, which from me is supposed to indicate irony as I don't actually believe it.

It's probably funnier on this side.

I always had difficulty with things like the definition of irony and quadratic equations. It's why I went to law school.

 

[Recidiva]

I always had difficulty with things like the definition of irony and quadratic equations. It's why I went to law school.

I just have trouble working tone of voice into text posts. All I know is I hear it in my head.

 

[Keroin]

Intolerance for alternative, consensual sexual practices is not comparable to intolerance for "moral transgression."

The suggestion that the same "shades of grey" apply is offensive.

Thank you for the explanation and sorry for the offense, it was not intended. But like it or not, however well we may understand there is no moral similarity between alternative sexual lifestyles and infidelity, the majority of people would see both as equally disgusting and worthy of scorn. To them, BDSM = perverted = bad, black and white, simple as that - and they feel that way with every bit as much certainty as many on this board feel about people who cheat on their spouses.

Are we right and they wrong? Or vice versa? Or do we just have very different perspectives? Should someone be kicked out of office because they practice BDSM? To us the answer is clearly no but most others would say yes.

Do you see the point I’m making? From my perspective, I can only see the world as complex. This doesn’t mean I don’t also have standards, just that, most of the time, I like to judge every situation based on the facts and circumstances of that particular situation. To me, not every unfaithful spouse is undeserving of trust and unworthy to be in a leadership position.

I’ve been cheated on, by someone I loved deeply. I know very well how it feels to be hurt and betrayed, BTW.

 

[Keroin]

I've seen the phenomena of which you speak where someone feels people are being fat "at" them somehow.

But I find that amusing. Sick and sad and all that, but amusing.

At least that idea didn't come out of MY brain.

Ah, the moral superiority is suffocating today.

Time for a cocktail.

 

[satindesire]

You've walked in your children's shoes, not your parents' in fact.

I agree with you that staying in a bad marriage for the sake of the children is usually a mistake but all I was talking about was the moment of telling your daughter that you have to break up her life for reasons that she would never be able to comprehend as anything but selfish.

All I'm trying to say here is that every life is different and it gets my hackles up any time someone who isn't in that life chooses to judge it from the outside without all the evidence.

Judge not, lest ye be judged, eh? Or does it only matter when it's someone else?

As a soon to be mom, I can tell you that it wouldn't matter why I chose to divorce my husband, if I was going to. I would try to explain the best I could to my daughter why mom and daddy wouldn't live together anymore, and I would try and comfort her the absolute best way I could. I can also tell you that it won't be me divorcing him because of infidelity on MY part. I have better self control than that, and a LOT more respect for my family than your everyday cheater. I would not be 'destroying her world' for any casual devil-may-care reason and I do consider divorce to be the absolute last option available to couples who can't meet each others' needs. I guess I had better brain power than the kids you're talking about, when I was a child, because I didn't think my parents were being selfish for separating, I thought my mom and daddy had a DAMN GOOD reason for separating. Neither did I think they were 'destroying my world'.

I suppose I put more stock in the intelligence of children and their ability to handle bad situations than you do.

Indeed every life IS different, but that still does not make in my opinion, a good excuse for going behind your partner's back and making a lie and disrespectful mockery of the vows they took as your legal partner. Happy fulfilled relationships do not produce cheaters. You CAN love someone and cheat on them, but that doesn't mean you should be with someone you cheat on. If you have to get laid somewhere else, maybe it makes sense to explore WHY as opposed to just fucking with your partner's heart like that.

If I piss you off for thinking that cheating is stupid and unnecessary, that's your right as a human being with your own valuable opinion. Doesn't change my mind in the least, though.

 

[Netzach]

I just can't help myself. It's like a bad train wreck.

Goddamn it, I came here to post an Al Franken tit pic, and I don't *feel* like upholding any such jokes since I'm the whore of fucking Babylon.

I must be worse than the dirty fucking cheaters and cheats who cheat them because I've spent a large part of my life enabling people in behavior that is sure the fuck cheating in the parlance of this conversation. I've talked to way more middle aged mid life cheaters than JMo, even if he's the social butterfly to end all social butterflies. They're my project, my passion you might even say.

And they're human beings.

Some of them the finest I know, in fact. And I'll stand by that.

I invite people to talk to the guy with the wife who has not fucked him since they were trying to have a child, 20 years prior. Someone obviously motivated by guilt and doing everything he can for the sake of preserving the relationship. Why? You fucking got me, but it's not MY life it's his and hers.

Live in that world for a few weeks.

Are some of them full of shit sob stories? Sure. You think after the 45th person I couldn't tell? A lot of them were not. Because here you had people who finally got to be themselves.

Go talk to suicidal people. Torn people. Kinked people who got together at 19 and knew how it was gonna be forever and ever. People with wives who cry every time they try talking about sex. Of ANY kind.

Go be an unofficial sex therapist to the kinked masses for a decade and then come back to me and tell me every single one of the people you meet is a degenerate who can't be trusted with authority. And go tell them your easy bullshit therapy Dr. Phil "well then get divorced" answer since you'll still be so suuuure of it.

 

[BiBunny]

I just can't help myself. It's like a bad train wreck.

Goddamn it, I came here to post an Al Franken tit pic, and I don't *feel* like upholding any such jokes since I'm the whore of fucking Babylon.

I must be worse than the dirty fucking cheaters and cheats who cheat them because I've spent a large part of my life enabling people in behavior that is sure the fuck cheating in the parlance of this conversation. I've talked to way more middle aged mid life cheaters than JMo, even if he's the social butterfly to end all social butterflies. They're my project, my passion you might even say.

And they're human beings.

Some of them the finest I know, in fact. And I'll stand by that.

I invite people to talk to the guy with the wife who has not fucked him since they were trying to have a child, 20 years prior. Someone obviously motivated by guilt and doing everything he can for the sake of preserving the relationship. Why? You fucking got me, but it's not MY life it's his and hers.

Live in that world for a few weeks.

Go talk to suicidal people. Torn people. Kinked people who got together at 19 and knew how it was gonna be forever and ever. People with wives who cry every time they try talking about sex. Of ANY kind.

Go be an unofficial sex therapist to the kinked masses for a decade and then come back to me and tell me every single one of the people you meet is a degenerate who can't be trusted with authority. And go tell them your easy bullshit therapy Dr. Phil "well then get divorced" answer since you'll still be so suuuure of it.

Dear sweet fucking God, I love you so much.

I'm really gone this time. If for no other reason than to ogle at your tit pic.

 

[DiscusDave]

You have to realize, prior to Clinton and Boxers v. Briefs we had the *good sense not to go asking this question that fucking hard.*

That's over. There's no privacy. Put your dick on hold for 4 years. If I were in office, senate, rep or other, I wouldn't even fuck my husband.

This is where I stand though. Whether or not you want to go and make the leap to say that the infidelity blemishes their character or not has nothing to do with it. And hell, if it happens before they get elected, and still get elected, then kudos. If it happens after they serve, who the fuck cares. But in my eyes, when they're actually IN OFFICE, serving the public... it's just a simple "Hey, I'm not gonna fuck this person," and they're golden.

To me, if I elected them and they are affecting me with decisions they make every day as a faction of their office, then anything they do (even in private life) is on our time, and they owe it to me and the rest of their constituents to not waste our time. Depending on what position you are elected to, the official might only serve a couple of years, to which point the whole "it's a choice" argument rings true even more. Just wait till you are out of office and then fuck everyone on your block. Just make sure while you are in office though your minds on the bills, statutes, and other political activities/issues you work with, and off of the nice ass of your secretary or mistress.

 

[Netzach]

This is where I stand though. Whether or not you want to go and make the leap to say that the infidelity blemishes their character or not has nothing to do with it. And hell, if it happens before they get elected, and still get elected, then kudos. If it happens after they serve, who the fuck cares. But in my eyes, when they're actually IN OFFICE, serving the public... it's just a simple "Hey, I'm not gonna fuck this person," and they're golden.

To me, if I elected them and they are affecting me with decisions they make every day as a faction of their office, then anything they do (even in private life) is on our time, and they owe it to me and the rest of their constituents to not waste our time. Depending on what position you are elected to, the official might only serve a couple of years, to which point the whole "it's a choice" argument rings true even more. Just wait till you are out of office and then fuck everyone on your block. Just make sure while you are in office though your minds on the bills, statutes, and other political activities/issues you work with, and off of the nice ass of your secretary or mistress.

I can get behind this, and what Homburg said. The "you were a dumbass" aspect of indiscretion in public life. I really don't give a rat's ass about any aspect of it other than "if you get caught, how much else can you drop the ball on?"

We've made the stakes higher by far than in Kennedy's day - and I think we expect asexuality pretty much. People put it on hold for years on end after kids and stuff, so to me it just makes sense to masturbate and keep your work in front of you for a term or two.

 

[satindesire]

I can get behind this, and what Homburg said. The "you were a dumbass" aspect of indiscretion in public life. I really don't give a rat's ass about any aspect of it other than "if you get caught, how much else can you drop the ball on?"

We've made the stakes higher by far than in Kennedy's day - and I think we expect asexuality pretty much. People put it on hold for years on end after kids and stuff, so to me it just makes sense to masturbate and keep your work in front of you for a term or two.

I think it's healthy and refreshing to see Bam go out on dates with his wife and they're dressed cute, it's nice to know that they're an attractive young couple who still maintain their sexual relationship by doing things like this.

I don't expect asexuality, but I know people who are disturbed to see any sign of sexuality in their leaders. I never really understood it, seeing as how a healthy sexual appetite is to me, very human and natural and good.

 

[Recidiva]

I just can't help myself. It's like a bad train wreck.

Goddamn it, I came here to post an Al Franken tit pic, and I don't *feel* like upholding any such jokes since I'm the whore of fucking Babylon.

I must be worse than the dirty fucking cheaters and cheats who cheat them because I've spent a large part of my life enabling people in behavior that is sure the fuck cheating in the parlance of this conversation. I've talked to way more middle aged mid life cheaters than JMo, even if he's the social butterfly to end all social butterflies. They're my project, my passion you might even say.

And they're human beings.

Some of them the finest I know, in fact. And I'll stand by that.

I invite people to talk to the guy with the wife who has not fucked him since they were trying to have a child, 20 years prior. Someone obviously motivated by guilt and doing everything he can for the sake of preserving the relationship. Why? You fucking got me, but it's not MY life it's his and hers.

Live in that world for a few weeks.

Are some of them full of shit sob stories? Sure. You think after the 45th person I couldn't tell? A lot of them were not. Because here you had people who finally got to be themselves.

Go talk to suicidal people. Torn people. Kinked people who got together at 19 and knew how it was gonna be forever and ever. People with wives who cry every time they try talking about sex. Of ANY kind.

Go be an unofficial sex therapist to the kinked masses for a decade and then come back to me and tell me every single one of the people you meet is a degenerate who can't be trusted with authority. And go tell them your easy bullshit therapy Dr. Phil "well then get divorced" answer since you'll still be so suuuure of it.

I AM a suicidal person, a torn person and a kinked person.

I think you're taking it far too personally and too far and railroading over any practical nuance while doing the steamrolling you're accusing other people of doing.

Kink and torn is not an excuse for harming other people by breaking promises. It is ESPECIALLY not an excuse for harming themselves and living in misery and thinking there's no way out. I do NOT accept social necessity as a reason. I despise that reason. Be brave, own up. Hiding it and then building some sort of citadel out of bricks of martyrdom and the knowledge of personal failure isn't anything I advocate.

I'm advocating honesty and courage and with all the sympathy I have for complications, I believe in a different way, which I practice. And it's hard. But I don't accept it's impossible or impractical.

Since you've put me in the "fuck off" category for advocating honesty, opportunity for future happiness and releasing others from unreasonable vows so they too can find happiness, well, I'll just have to live with how horrible that is as an outlook on life.

Your argument isn't even about politics any more. It's about you and I can't speak to that as you're only shooting me part of the story, under cover of "poor me" outrage. But apparently you and everyone you know now or ever met think I'm scum, so I'll just have to bear up under that.

I'd tell you to fuck off, but I don't really feel that way and I don't see the need.

I just think you're in shitloads of pain and you think I'm causing it, and I'd like to point out, I was nowhere near when everyone made all those choices. But having made some of those choices myself, I'm sure of where I stand.

You don't want to go that way? Fine. But please keep the violin strains to a minimum while you assume that I've just led a charmed, morally superior life where I never paid a price. That's ill informed and entirely missing the point.

 

[Recidiva]

Thank you for the explanation and sorry for the offense, it was not intended. But like it or not, however well we may understand there is no moral similarity between alternative sexual lifestyles and infidelity, the majority of people would see both as equally disgusting and worthy of scorn. To them, BDSM = perverted = bad, black and white, simple as that - and they feel that way with every bit as much certainty as many on this board feel about people who cheat on their spouses.

Are we right and they wrong? Or vice versa? Or do we just have very different perspectives? Should someone be kicked out of office because they practice BDSM? To us the answer is clearly no but most others would say yes.

Do you see the point I’m making? From my perspective, I can only see the world as complex. This doesn’t mean I don’t also have standards, just that, most of the time, I like to judge every situation based on the facts and circumstances of that particular situation. To me, not every unfaithful spouse is undeserving of trust and unworthy to be in a leadership position.

I’ve been cheated on, by someone I loved deeply. I know very well how it feels to be hurt and betrayed, BTW.

Again this isn't arbitrary. There are reasons. Any kink that's consensual is fine with me.

Cheating is the epitome of nonconsent. Not only is it doing something they pledged publicly not to do, it's holding someone else to the same restrictions they themselves know are unrealistic. It's forcing someone else to uphold a contract that's already been broken.

 

[eastern sun]

At the risk of bringing the hammer down on my own head, I'd like to say -

the biggest problem with rationalizing sexual misconduct on the part of politicians (or anyone) is that it dismisses the fact that it often triggers craving cycles that can ultimately cloud one's best judgement. And lead to increasingly impulsive and/or reckless behavior.

I don't think our politicians should be held to any higher standard than anyone else, but I do think we shouldn't rationalize bad behavior just because it releases tension.

I also think, however, that "sexual misconduct" should be defined by the circumstances of the case. Not every act of adultery should be construed as "misconduct," but the outcome or potential fallout is certainly valid criteria.

 

[Recidiva]

At the risk of bringing the hammer down on my own head, I'd like to say -

the biggest problem with rationalizing sexual misconduct on the part of politicians (or anyone) is that it dismisses the fact that it often triggers craving cycles that can ultimately cloud one's best judgement. And lead to increasingly impulsive and/or reckless behavior.

I don't think our politicians should be held to any higher standard than anyone else, but I do think we shouldn't rationalize bad behavior just because it releases tension.

I also think, however, that "sexual misconduct" should be defined by the circumstances of the case. Not every act of adultery should be construed as "misconduct," but the outcome or potential fallout is certainly valid criteria.

I don't put it in moral terms. I put it in character terms. Inability to control impulses. Justifying harming others and hiding the evidence. Inability to portray reality accurately to associates. Vulnerability to blackmail. Inability to keep promises or renegotiate.

These are all political skills here.

And I think the question should always be answered by the person being cheated on, which is in my opinion, the one most harmed, and the one least discussed paradoxically here in terms of fallout and responsibility.

 

[JMohegan]

Thank you for the explanation and sorry for the offense, it was not intended. But like it or not, however well we may understand there is no moral similarity between alternative sexual lifestyles and infidelity, the majority of people would see both as equally disgusting and worthy of scorn. To them, BDSM = perverted = bad, black and white, simple as that - and they feel that way with every bit as much certainty as many on this board feel about people who cheat on their spouses.

Are we right and they wrong? Or vice versa? Or do we just have very different perspectives? Should someone be kicked out of office because they practice BDSM? To us the answer is clearly no but most others would say yes.

Do you see the point I’m making? From my perspective, I can only see the world as complex. This doesn’t mean I don’t also have standards, just that, most of the time, I like to judge every situation based on the facts and circumstances of that particular situation. To me, not every unfaithful spouse is undeserving of trust and unworthy to be in a leadership position.

I’ve been cheated on, by someone I loved deeply. I know very well how it feels to be hurt and betrayed, BTW.

The root of intolerance for consensual kink is ignorance. Ignorance is wrong, yes.

The root of intolerance for infidelity may be found in the last line of your post. It is acknowledgment of the fact that someone will be hurt and betrayed by the act. Is this intolerance right or wrong? Is the cost (in terms of emotional suffering) justifiable, given the benefit (in terms of sexual relief)? That depends.

As for the ways in which these types of intolerance apply to politicians - you say you like to judge every situation based on the facts and circumstances, but unless you have access to a hell of a lot more information than the public at large, those are impossible to know.

My personal opinion is that a cheating politican can not be reasonably compared to the average unfaithful spouse. The consequences of a politician's infidelity are so different, and so much more widespread, that the comparing of costs and benefits becomes crystal clear. If a politician can't see that, then his perspective is dangerously warped. And if he can see it, but proceeds anyway, then his self-control is seriously lacking.

 

[Homburg]

I'm still pissed at Buddha for abandoning his wife and son. Can't you go be enlightened later, you know, after your responsibilities are fulfilled?

This made me laugh. Good show!

--

Go be an unofficial sex therapist to the kinked masses for a decade and then come back to me and tell me every single one of the people you meet is a degenerate who can't be trusted with authority. And go tell them your easy bullshit therapy Dr. Phil "well then get divorced" answer since you'll still be so suuuure of it.

Can I just call them degenerates? I think they'd identify with that better. I sure do.

 

[Recidiva]

This made me laugh. Good show!

Can I just call them degenerates? I think they'd identify with that better. I sure do.

Good thing someone still has a sense of humor. Woo hoo!

I'd call them entirely and understandably human. But I'm not hiring an accountant that can't balance their own checkbook either.

Call me crazy. Oh, wait, already been done.

 

[Netzach]

I think it's healthy and refreshing to see Bam go out on dates with his wife and they're dressed cute, it's nice to know that they're an attractive young couple who still maintain their sexual relationship by doing things like this.

You're making connections I'm not. But dressing up and going out usually results in the kind of night where we fall asleep in about five minutes.

I definitely think Barry has a shitload of oversexed black male stereotype to avoid, and this kind of male Jackie O perpetual class thing is the best road to go. I can't really picture these people doing anything non procreative.

 

[JMohegan]

I just can't help myself. It's like a bad train wreck.

Goddamn it, I came here to post an Al Franken tit pic, and I don't *feel* like upholding any such jokes since I'm the whore of fucking Babylon.

I must be worse than the dirty fucking cheaters and cheats who cheat them because I've spent a large part of my life enabling people in behavior that is sure the fuck cheating in the parlance of this conversation. I've talked to way more middle aged mid life cheaters than JMo, even if he's the social butterfly to end all social butterflies. They're my project, my passion you might even say.

And they're human beings.

Some of them the finest I know, in fact. And I'll stand by that.

I invite people to talk to the guy with the wife who has not fucked him since they were trying to have a child, 20 years prior. Someone obviously motivated by guilt and doing everything he can for the sake of preserving the relationship. Why? You fucking got me, but it's not MY life it's his and hers.

Live in that world for a few weeks.

Are some of them full of shit sob stories? Sure. You think after the 45th person I couldn't tell? A lot of them were not. Because here you had people who finally got to be themselves.

Go talk to suicidal people. Torn people. Kinked people who got together at 19 and knew how it was gonna be forever and ever. People with wives who cry every time they try talking about sex. Of ANY kind.

Go be an unofficial sex therapist to the kinked masses for a decade and then come back to me and tell me every single one of the people you meet is a degenerate who can't be trusted with authority. And go tell them your easy bullshit therapy Dr. Phil "well then get divorced" answer since you'll still be so suuuure of it.

From where I'm sitting, midlife cheating syndrome looks like this.

Family guy reaches middle age, starts feeling unhappy with his sex life, personally unfulfilled, bored with life. Searches for an explanation and reaches the obvious conclusion that he's unhappy with his wife.

He doesn't reach this conclusion overnight, but he doesn't reach it in isolation either. He can't help noticing that the world is filled with younger, more attractive, flirty, fresh faces. (None of whom has any idea what it's like to actually live with this guy, day after day and year after year - but that's beside the point.)

He starts discounting and taking for granted everything his wife does for him (laundry, child rearing, companionship, comfort when sick, budgetary sacrifice, and so on), while at the same time focusing on the areas in which he finds her lacking.

Eventually, he comes to the point where he describes her in terms of a bitter litany of offense. She's so unreasonable/unresponsive/bitchy/cold/constantly tired/frigid/take your pick of pejoratives. She's so different from the way she was before they got married/had kids/moved to the big house/whatever.

The kinky version adds: She's so uptight and close-minded that she won't alter her own sexual orientation to meet his needs. (Never mind that the guy is also "failing" to alter his sexual orientation to match hers.)

No balance. No acknowledgment of her positive points, efforts, or legitimate sources of grievance. No mention of the guy's shortcomings, or the way he's changed, or his role in the deterioration of the marriage. He could never have predicted this happening, he's tried everything humanly possible to save the marriage, his misery is all her fault.

This bitter, one-sided mindset serves two purposes. First, it absolves him of responsibility for his own failings up to that point. And second, it justifies the cheating that inevitably ensues.

Does past or present midlife cheating syndrome mean that the cheater can't be trusted with authority? Not necessarily, no.

Is cheating by your average suburban husband comparable to cheating by a political candidate or guy in office? Absolutely not. Political reality is what it is, and the politician bears a responsibility to his staff, his supporters, and the electorate, that the average suburban guy simply does not.

 

[Homburg]

Good thing someone still has a sense of humor. Woo hoo!

I'd call them entirely and understandably human. But I'm not hiring an accountant that can't balance their own checkbook either.

I try to maintain a sense of humour. After all, a number of people on these boards, and many off these boards, would consider me a cheater. I don't, but that is because I made sure informed consent was the rule of the day. Still, vows and all, people have problems with that. *shrug*

You know, interestingly enough, I know a lot of mechanics, and I mean a LOT. Most of them have cars that are perennially in need of repair. I know a couple of contractors and carpenters, and their houses always need work. I'm not trying to extend that analogy to politicians, or even accountants, but it is just something I've noticed. Often times, someone that works in a field will take on difficult projects in their own personal lives figuring they can save money by applying their skills to said project. Interesting psychology that.

 

[intothewoods]

I AM a suicidal person, a torn person and a kinked person.

I think you're taking it far too personally and too far and railroading over any practical nuance while doing the steamrolling you're accusing other people of doing.

Kink and torn is not an excuse for harming other people by breaking promises. It is ESPECIALLY not an excuse for harming themselves and living in misery and thinking there's no way out. I do NOT accept social necessity as a reason. I despise that reason. Be brave, own up. Hiding it and then building some sort of citadel out of bricks of martyrdom and the knowledge of personal failure isn't anything I advocate.

I'm advocating honesty and courage and with all the sympathy I have for complications, I believe in a different way, which I practice. And it's hard. But I don't accept it's impossible or impractical.

Since you've put me in the "fuck off" category for advocating honesty, opportunity for future happiness and releasing others from unreasonable vows so they too can find happiness, well, I'll just have to live with how horrible that is as an outlook on life.

Your argument isn't even about politics any more. It's about you and I can't speak to that as you're only shooting me part of the story, under cover of "poor me" outrage. But apparently you and everyone you know now or ever met think I'm scum, so I'll just have to bear up under that.

I'd tell you to fuck off, but I don't really feel that way and I don't see the need.

I just think you're in shitloads of pain and you think I'm causing it, and I'd like to point out, I was nowhere near when everyone made all those choices. But having made some of those choices myself, I'm sure of where I stand.

You don't want to go that way? Fine. But please keep the violin strains to a minimum while you assume that I've just led a charmed, morally superior life where I never paid a price. That's ill informed and entirely missing the point.

I haven't seen a lot of practical nuance from you that's being trampled on here. It seems that there is only one story: the lifelong cheater who forces everyone to play a game of charades for their entire tortured lives. I have no interest in voting for that person either, but I know that not every person who has cheated fits that mold, politician or not. The forced charade is prevalent in almost all political families, regardless of infidelity. Again, if we weren't obsessed with knowing every detail about everyone's private life, we might have less of that.

Sometimes people grow apart in relationships, someone or both parties cheat, and then the couple really does the hard work in a relationship to repair it and move forward. Some people stray in other ways and then both spouses realize the relationship isn't salvagable and they get a divorce. The idea that a person who has made a couple of isolated bad choices in their life should not be elected is ridiculous. Politicians are human too, and I have yet to see one who hasn't made a bad choice. Are all bad choices equal? Of course not. That's why I wouldn't decide not to vote for someone without knowing the context.

 

[Recidiva]

I try to maintain a sense of humour. After all, a number of people on these boards, and many off these boards, would consider me a cheater. I don't, but that is because I made sure informed consent was the rule of the day. Still, vows and all, people have problems with that. *shrug*

You know, interestingly enough, I know a lot of mechanics, and I mean a LOT. Most of them have cars that are perennially in need of repair. I know a couple of contractors and carpenters, and their houses always need work. I'm not trying to extend that analogy to politicians, or even accountants, but it is just something I've noticed. Often times, someone that works in a field will take on difficult projects in their own personal lives figuring they can save money by applying their skills to said project. Interesting psychology that.

Well, nobody's forced to get married. Nobody's forced to stay in a marriage. Nobody's forced to cheat. Nobody's forced to run for public office. Claiming that any one of those steps is compulsory or irreversable or a natural right is bull. Claiming that life is hard as an excuse, also bull. That's a valid excuse for needing therapy and help. It's not a valid reason for being elected.

I prefer people who can overcome challenges and prove they can do so by applying those mechanics to their lives successfully.

I don't accept "those who can't do, teach" or "those who can't do, govern."

I don't see this as a sob story, I see it as someone who considers they're entitled to "it all" at someone else's expense.

It's interesting psychologically. I do know as an editor I don't want to read in my off hours usually. I get that it's the last thing you want to do is fix your stuff.

But again, they didn't make a vow to maintain my upkeep of fiction and nonfiction, nor does it cost anybody else if my library visits lapse. It is different. It's exhaustion with something you do all day. Not a complete disconnect between responsibilities assumed and the abdication of same while minimizing any costs to another human being.

 

[Recidiva]

I haven't seen a lot of practical nuance from you that's being trampled on here. It seems that there is only one story: the lifelong cheater who forces everyone to play a game of charades for their entire tortured lives. I have no interest in voting for that person either, but I know that not every person who has cheated fits that mold, politician or not. The forced charade is prevalent in almost all political families, regardless of infidelity. Again, if we weren't obsessed with knowing every detail about everyone's private life, we might have less of that.

Sometimes people grow apart in relationships, someone or both parties cheat, and then the couple really does the hard work in a relationship to repair it and move forward. Some people stray in other ways and then both spouses realize the relationship isn't salvagable and they get a divorce. The idea that a person who has made a couple of isolated bad choices in their life should not be elected is ridiculous. Politicians are human too, and I have yet to see one who hasn't made a bad choice. Are all bad choices equal? Of course not. That's why I wouldn't decide not to vote for someone without knowing the context.

The nuance I'm discussing is that it's different for me to say I wouldn't elect someone on that basis compared to Nezatch telling me to fuck off on behalf of her clients, none of whom I'm aware are running for office. And somehow I've cast an indictment on all Buddhist principles.

I do hold that's missing my point and making her own in its place.

Either way, I appreciate her viewpoint as ersatz therapist. I'm advocating for the viewpoint of the people her clients hurt. Sympathetic as I am to Nezatch's position, I don't think that being an advocate for one person's side, indicates she's fully explored the full situation and asked the cheatee how it affected their life - oh right! Nobody asked them! Huh. Weird.

Everyone deserves sympathy and care. Not everybody deserves public responsibility when they demonstrate they can't negotiate private responsibility.

I really don't see how it got as far as it got or why it's about being fat or cake or all the other analogies I've seen.

I do know I'm in the position of being "it's all relative" - ed out of existence. Sure, if you pull the camera back far enough, everything looks small. However, take a microscope to some of it and look at all aspects. Look at all sides.

I have no problem being the advocate of the "cheatee" amidst the forgiving relativistic "But it's understandable" stuff that seems more about excuses than responsibility.

Just don't expect me to vote for it.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not the person who made this one "not about politics." The sobbing indignation didn't come on the scene with me. "I don't give a rat's ass" didn't need any further detail added until we began to weigh infidelity as social ill and that wasn't my idea.

I believe that I don't have requisite information to make judgements on people who are having extramarital sex based on that fact alone and no others.

I believe that MY choices are mine and made because of the position I'm in when I make them and the person I am when I make them and the people I'm with when I make them and the day I make them on.

They're not a shining guidepost of "if I can make a choice I feel morally strong in then everyone can and should make the same choice."

That' s bullshit. That's a vile load of fuck off worthy bullshit in the annals of human interaction. And I will *always* call that out.

That's apparently loads of personal pain and angst to defend the fact that no one knows who or where people are from the comfortable judging platform of the outside.

What I go though *as me* doesn't have jack shit to do with another human being on earth.

I don't know. And you don't either.

It's like "life begins at conception" - people certain as certain can be on something so mysterious and multileveled. I don't know that it doesn't. I don't know that it does.

I

don't

know.