Does it really exist?

[Private_Label]

Ok, first of all I'm not lookin' to find a sub, that'd be hopin' for too much.

Second I'm not out to hurt or abuse women, I just think that the beauty of having someone submit to me would be their unconditional love. That I wouldn't have to do what she told me to do all the time. Not having to please anyone. Just for example: if I come home really tired I wouldn't have to pretend I wasn't just to please her, I could be myself and watch sports or whatever. And know she'd always love me, no matter what I did.

Now I would never treat someone like dirt all the time, because I'm not an asshole and I don't want to do that.
What I'd like though, is to be able to do anything I want to do, even if it's sometimes something she doesn't want to do.

That's not necessarily submission. Lots of people go home from work and don't immediately fawn all over the other person.

But you need to at least be able to talk about it with the other person.

sample convo:
A: Honey, I love you, but when I get home from work, I just need some time to get rid of the stress before I deal with anything at home. I'd like x hours to just veg out before we talk about anything.

B: Ok, but I'm tired when I get home too. If I cook dinner, could you rinse the dishes and put them in the dishwasher after we eat?

You work out a compromise. Either that, or you win the lottery and get a cook and a maid.

 

[Marquis]

I'm kind of feeling this topic. It would be nice to own a complete doormat.

Fuck all that "nobody wants a doormat" bullshit! I would love a fucking doormat! Someone whose sole purpose was to serve me and make my life better and never worried about her own needs. Sounds like the perfect slave to me.

Unfortunately in the real world I think women like that are very rare and often come with negative sides themselves. Maybe they hold everything in and try to kill in your sleep or something, who knows, but everything balances out in this bitch ass planet.

The truth is if you want that kind of lasting and serious love from someone you really gotta offer it back just as strong.

 

[SueJ]

The truth is if you want that kind of lasting and serious love from someone you really gotta offer it back just as strong.

Absolutely agree. A D/s or M/s relationship may have some different elements involved, but in many ways, it is no different from any other love relationship. I'd never give Him what I do without that kind of love and devotion in return.

 

[roosterado9]

these replies make me feel lonely[bring it to the front of my mind]

 

[anotherguyfromsweden]

It seems I'm finally beginning to get an answer to my original question, and it seems to be: no.

 

[Netzach]

Aw, warm fuzzies, Marquis, gracie. Frankly, I don't see the point in having a sub or slave I could not trust to that degree -- I like when people can run things for me, I tend towards lazy if anything.

I think women like you mention exist, because I know men do.

Right now my husband is cleaning house while I dick around. I'm not sure he's sitting there going "awwww gee I love her unconditionally" in fact I'm sure he's kind of peeved, but he knows it's his place and he knows not to nag me and he does NOT know that I am about to put away the laundry he just did.

 

[babiesmiles]

I dont think it's a NO. Its a yes but ...

I just think that unconditional devotion ( like uncondotional love ) must be earned .

I've seen a great amount of trust in various kinds of relationships which lead the lover ( in D/s or not ) to a real high level of giving themselves almost without limits, going far beyond boundaries and fears.

But nothing is one way , as very wisely Netzach said, if you are not able to earn that love and devotion with an equal amount of it you'll never have that . Because even if you'll get something "similar " from a submissive without earn and deserve it , it will not be unconditional love/devotion/trust /submission /whatsever / but just a selfish need of that person to be treated that way for various personal reasons i'm not here to consider nor judge .

If not supported by a mutual strong feeling of earned strong trust such a "no limit kind of relation" could look like unconditional submission but in my opinion would be just an exploitation of the D/s bound for selfish aims.
Obviously (thank God !) the human mind is so complex that to distinguish among degrees of a look like behaviour it's a thing not easy and in my opinion it needs experience , knowledge and awareness to be found out .

 

[h_i_s]

It seems I'm finally beginning to get an answer to my original question, and it seems to be: no.

Based on your original question, i'd say you received plenty of affirmative answers.

Perhaps you are just not clear on exactly what it is you are asking?

Ok, this might sound stupid, but I'm new to all this, so I don't know better. I'm simply wondering: does it exist? I mean I've met a lot of women but none of them would (I'm pretty sure) put their life in the hands of someone else. Are there actually women out there who do? I mean really, not just as a game that you can end at any moment. Women who actually feel sorry when they've upset their master/mistress, honestly sorry, do they exist?

If they do I'd like sure to meet them.

i posted. i also told you that i am deeply sorry when i have offended Him or disobeyed Him. i told you that we don't play games.

i told you that my Master/Husband has my life in His hands.

He does in that He has the final say in all decisions in our life & in our relationship. Or are you speaking of Him actually having my LIFE in His hands? Meaning life as in whether i do or do not cease to breath? In that case i can also say yes. Sometimes He has been known to enjoy forms of 'breath control' (no lectures please... we know it can be dangerous .. which is exactly my point of discussing it in this post). He wraps His hands around my throat, making it very difficult to draw my next breath, and i live only if He releases the grip of His hands around my neck. Just because He has chosen to let go, enabling me to actually TAKE my next breath does not mean that He HAS to, and just because i am still here able to tell of it .... does not mean that i have not placed my life (talking death type life in His hands example here) in His hands. This example also does not answer your original question??

Perhaps the answers you received are just not the answers you wanted? Perhaps you could elaborate more as to what you actually wish to know because i think you DID receive your answers, and the answer i gave was a YES.

 

[Marquis]

If I got what he's asking right the answer is no.

Think about it, if they really were just looking for someone to devote themselves to without getting anything back, why would they choose you?

Are you that fucking cool?

 

[Netzach]

If I got what he's asking right the answer is no.

Think about it, if they really were just looking for someone to devote themselves to without getting anything back, why would they choose you?

Are you that fucking cool?

LOL, so true.

If they go there, they probably will not STAY there. I've been cool enough to enjoy it in limited amounts.

 

[Marquis]

LOL, so true.

If they go there, they probably will not STAY there. I've been cool enough to enjoy it in limited amounts.

As have I, but as soon as they figure out you're just another humon it's all over.

 

[h_i_s]

If I got what he's asking right the answer is no.

Think about it, if they really were just looking for someone to devote themselves to without getting anything back, why would they choose you?

Are you that fucking cool?

Hell, no .... nobody is THAT cool.

But ..

Marquis, are you referring to the comments of my last post? He said 'his original question'. i was replying to his original question. He mentions nothing about not giving anything back in that original question which he posted.

If so, Marquis i think you have misunderstood, my post. Which then may have lead Netzach to also misunderstand (if their comments were also in reference to my post).

Shoot... maybe it's me who is confused ...

If so, everyone should please disregard this post. lol

 

[Marquis]

Disregarded.

 

[catalina_francisco]

What I'd like though, is to be able to do anything I want to do, even if it's sometimes something she doesn't want to do.

It's not impossible, but then you also have to have what it takes to make someone feel inclined to be there unconditionally. There is also a myth that raises its head regularly that this means the sub in question is perfect and submits without question or struggle 100% of the time.....lol, in their dreams....or they have a Dom/me who caters to what they want and can handle easily. Speaking honestly, we have a TPE relationship, I often don't submit easily, I sometimes hate what he does or how he does something, but I give it my best shot and work toward submitting to those things he wants that I don't want or don't find appealing or easy. It takes time, but then we are humans, not machines, and we do push the boundaries in a variety of ways. What it comes down to is I find myself shifting and giving over to his needs/wants because it is what I agreed to and what I feel is right. Sometimes the shit flies, but it is usually cleaned up quickly.

Catalina

 

[TaintedB]

What the hell's a "munch"?

What I mean is: if I had a sub and treated her totally unfair, like dirt, would she still love me? That's what I'm wonderin', are there such women?

If you're allowed total control over someone only as long as she agrees with everything you do, that's not real control, then it's just a game.

//AGfS

Your first paragraph contains a false assumption, from the perspective of the way I have done bdsm in the past, as the submissive. This assumption, in my personal experience, makes the question invalid. The way some bdsm relationships, including one I was involved in for many years, work is as follows: the submissive partner has certain basic emotional and sexual needs. If the dominant she is with can meet all or most of those needs (there isn't a huge laundry list of these, just a a handful of basic things that some of us have to have in a relationship in order to be fulfilled), then the submissive, in turn can completely drop her walls and be open with him in the way that she has to be if he is to control her completely. This openness, the inability to hide anything significant from him, makes extreme control possible. If the "dominant" in question is treating her totally unfairly and like dirt he is _not_ meeting those needs, which include, in the sorts of subs I am speaking of, a need to be able to trust their partner not to ever harm them on purpose.

We know from looking at abusive vanilla relationships that many women do indeed "stick around" despite the fact that their partners treat them like dirt. Something about the relationship and the way it interacts with their own personalities and issues keeps them there. This is also true in some bdsm relationships: if you give a submissive just part of what they need and that part is something really important to them, they'll stick to you like glue no matter what crappy stuff you do to them. But I agree, in the latter case, that they are choosing to stick around, deciding on a momnet-to-moment basis that what good you give to them is worth putting up with the bad for. Despite the fact that agreement is being constantly given (the neverending gift of submission, lol) in such abuse situations, the relationships are astonishingly stable and survive all kinds of extreme things, often until the woman is killed or hurt so badly that authorities intervene, in fact.

However, in the kind of bdsm relationship in which all power is seized by the dominant and all power ceded by the submissive, this kind of abuse crap can't go on becaue it prevents an essential prerquisite of absolute power exchange from developing: an extremely strong trust on the submissive's part of her dominant's judgement and regard for her. Neither can complete power be exchanged in a relationship, that, while not abusive, doesn't meet most of the submissives needs (as, for example, a relationship with another submissive person).

By successfully meeting most of the submissive's needs, the dominant gains such power over her (I call this power "hidden chains" because it's not always tangible or obvious) that, if the relationship progresses normally, the sub reaches a point where they, literally, cannot break away. I've experienced this personally and seen it in a few other relationships that were like mine. Instead of the constant gift analogy which is used to describe another sort of bdsm relationship, the analogy is more of one of addiction, but an addiction so strong, it's almost impossible to break free of (should you even want to--most subs who experience getting most of their needs met do not even consider leaving, actually). This addiction is not a bad thing, as getting what you need most is life is not a bad thing, and they are one and the same for some submssives.

There are other sorts of bdsm relationships out there. I am not qualified to speak about them much as I have not experienced them nor do I understand their ins and outs the way I understand the type of relationship I have experienced firsthand and am talking about here. What I can say is this: in the relationship I was in, my master genuinely had total control over me and it wasn't a matter of my agreeing to it constantly. During the first eight months or so it might have been that way, just a little, but after that point, I was pretty much a "hooked for life," lol.

--------------------

Sigh, I'm taking a risk in posting this. Every single damn time I start to talk about the fact that some bdsm relationships actually do involve real and complete power exchange, certain personality types tend to pop out of the woodwork and accuse me of one-true-wayism. It's happened here in the forum, but it's also happened in several dozen other places where I've talked about bdsm extensively over the years. I hope it doesn't happen this time, as I have taken enormous pains above to make it clear that I am talking about my firsthand experience with one single type of bdsm relationship, not talking about all bdsm or all relationships or saying that every person's relationship should be like mine was. In fact, I said the exact opposite above (and in virtually every post I make on this subject): very few people want or need the sort of relationship I had. Why should they be pushed into it? Why would I want them pushed into it, lol assuming a post of mine could do anything of that sort, and for them to be miserable? If you resent the fact that I have had the experiences I have had and that I dare to talk about them openly and honestly as my own experiences and to intimate that I am friendly with and know of other couples who experience very similar things, well then, just what sort of person does that make you? Sounds like "any-way-but-yours-ism" to me. :/

 

[catalina_francisco]

--------------------

Sigh, I'm taking a risk in posting this. Every single damn time I start to talk about the fact that some bdsm relationships actually do involve real and complete power exchange, certain personality types tend to pop out of the woodwork and accuse me of one-true-wayism. It's happened here in the forum, but it's also happened in several dozen other places where I've talked about bdsm extensively over the years. I hope it doesn't happen this time, as I have taken enormous pains above to make it clear that I am talking about my firsthand experience with one single type of bdsm relationship, not talking about all bdsm or all relationships or saying that every person's relationship should be like mine was. In fact, I said the exact opposite above (and in virtually every post I make on this subject): very few people want or need the sort of relationship I had. Why should they be pushed into it? Why would I want them pushed into it, lol assuming a post of mine could do anything of that sort, and for them to be miserable? If you resent the fact that I have had the experiences I have had and that I dare to talk about them openly and honestly as my own experiences and to intimate that I am friendly with and know of other couples who experience very similar things, well then, just what sort of person does that make you? Sounds like "any-way-but-yours-ism" to me. :/

Having experienced what you speak of in terms of interpreting what you speak of and why, I have come to the conclusion it just tends to rub some people the wrong way and they feel compelled to respond. Whether it challenges what they think is right or touches something deep inside they cannot or will not acknowledge, I do not know....all I can do is speak of my choices which were not made lightly or because I was not really sure about what I was getting myself into....I suspect it is the same for you.

Catalina

 

[TaintedB]

Having experienced what you speak of in terms of interpreting what you speak of and why, I have come to the conclusion it just tends to rub some people the wrong way and they feel compelled to respond. Whether it challenges what they think is right or touches something deep inside they cannot or will not acknowledge, I do not know....all I can do is speak of my choices which were not made lightly or because I was not really sure about what I was getting myself into....I suspect it is the same for you.

Catalina

Yep. Same old shit experienced here. I was in a vanilla-relationship-turned-marriage for 12 years. 12 long years despite the sexual and emotional aspects being mostly really bad. I tried very hard, obviously, to make it work, as the person and I clicked on a few very good levels (like in creativity and intelligence). A vanilla gay relationship for two years. Tried less hard to make that one work--we were clearly incompatible and I quickly got too hurt to care. Numerous shorter termed affairs, all vanilla, before during and after those two. And miserable in all of them. Then, after all of that extensive experience with long-term relationships, short-term relationships, one night stands, one week flings, and so on that did nothing for me, I live 16 years with my master, absolutely loving it, feeling the deepest fulfilment and contentment even during the very very rough times we went through, 16 years of this damn it!, and after all of this I _still_ don't know my own mind? Oh PLEASE! (I've noticed that usually this phrase about one's not knowing oneself is spoken to you by someone half one's age, lol, rather suspect for projection qualities, I think.) And I didn't just spend my time dumbly experiencing, either. I wrote about it all, all the time, reams upon reams of writing, I analyzed it my head, I analyzed it with others, I questioned myself over and over, went through crises of spirit during every point in those years, and _came through them_. All I have to say is, if you don't know your own mind after over three decades of all of that, you ain't never going to know it.

 

[curiousjen]

Yep. Same old shit experienced here. I was in a vanilla-relationship-turned-marriage for 12 years. 12 long years despite the sexual and emotional aspects being mostly really bad. I tried very hard, obviously, to make it work, as the person and I clicked on a few very good levels (like in creativity and intelligence). A vanilla gay relationship for two years. Tried less hard to make that one work--we were clearly incompatible and I quickly got too hurt to care. Numerous shorter termed affairs, all vanilla, before during and after those two. And miserable in all of them. Then, after all of that extensive experience with long-term relationships, short-term relationships, one night stands, one week flings, and so on that did nothing for me, I live 16 years with my master, absolutely loving it, feeling the deepest fulfilment and contentment even during the very very rough times we went through, 16 years of this damn it!, and after all of this I _still_ don't know my own mind? Oh PLEASE! (I've noticed that usually this phrase about one's not knowing oneself is spoken to you by someone half one's age, lol, rather suspect for projection qualities, I think.) And I didn't just spend my time dumbly experiencing, either. I wrote about it all, all the time, reams upon reams of writing, I analyzed it my head, I analyzed it with others, I questioned myself over and over, went through crises of spirit during every point in those years, and _came through them_. All I have to say is, if you don't know your own mind after over three decades of all of that, you ain't never going to know it.

This post reminded me that I am at the start of a very long journey.

Just thought I'd share.

 

[catalina_francisco]

All I have to say is, if you don't know your own mind after over three decades of all of that, you ain't never going to know it.

LOL, sadly some people never now themselves or what they need to be happy and fulfilled in the ways that count.....but even sadder are those who think finding that place means everything is perfect and if you dare admit to having difficulty somewhere or feeling anything less than like Cinderella after moving into her fairytale castle, you still are deluding yourself.....ugh, give me reality anyday, even those days when it stinks.

Catalina

 

[TaintedB]

This post reminded me that I am at the start of a very long journey.

Just thought I'd share.

Maybe, but everything you write here suggests you're well into the "know your own mind" camp, so I expect you're going to be able to relax and enjoy the sights along the way more than some people can.

 

[TaintedB]

LOL, sadly some people never now themselves or what they need to be happy and fulfilled in the ways that count.....but even sadder are those who think finding that place means everything is perfect and if you dare admit to having difficulty somewhere or feeling anything less than like Cinderella after moving into her fairytale castle, you still are deluding yourself.....ugh, give me reality anyday, even those days when it stinks.

Catalina

Uh oh! You're getting me started on one of my pet peeves: this insistance in certain parts of the bdsm culture that you are not a good submissive if you ever suggest to the dom that things are less than perfect. :/ I see this one a lot in the personal-ad culture: subs are "instructed" that they are not good submissives if they question the dom or express honestly that something is bothering them. So everything with their master is "always perfect" and new submissives see this and get unrealistic expectations about their own future relationships. Their "slave training" often consists of teaching them to censor themselves and be dishonest and less than open so that they don't give the dominant training them any trouble. grrrrrr! Talk about a really stupid recepie for relationship disaster!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Uh oh! You're getting me started on one of my pet peeves: this insistance in certain parts of the bdsm culture that you are not a good submissive if you ever suggest to the dom that things are less than perfect. :/ I see this one a lot in the personal-ad culture: subs are "instructed" that they are not good submissives if they question the dom or express honestly that something is bothering them. So everything with their master is "always perfect" and new submissives see this and get unrealistic expectations about their own future relationships. Their "slave training" often consists of teaching them to censor themselves and be dishonest and less than open so that they don't give the dominant training them any trouble. grrrrrr! Talk about a really stupid recepie for relationship disaster!

LOL, yes, I fail miserably on that model....don't have to say what is on my mind, it just seems to scream from every pore of my being no matter how much I keep eyes downcast in subly fashion (unlike me) and emotions veiled....hmmm, well emotional veiling is usually like a red flag sign something is going on because neither of us is perfect at keeping an emotionless facade going...too much fire and passion to keep it harnessed. Mind you, I know he does wish at times I was just a tad less emotional and I don't blame him, but he also loves that about me....poor man.

Catalina

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

Ok, this might sound stupid, but I'm new to all this, so I don't know better. I'm simply wondering: does it exist? I mean I've met a lot of women but none of them would (I'm pretty sure) put their life in the hands of someone else. Are there actually women out there who do? I mean really, not just as a game that you can end at any moment. Women who actually feel sorry when they've upset their master/mistress, honestly sorry, do they exist?

If they do I'd like sure to meet them.

//AGfS

It does exist. i am slave to a wonderful Master, and have been serving Him for a year now. i trust Him with everything, and i am in His care...my life in His hands. i do not have a safeword as i am His slave and as such i would not deny Him. Yes it exists. It is not easy, but for the first time in my life i am complete.

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

Ok, at the risk of making an ass of myself (seeing how everyone seems to agree), I'll try to meet your arguments.




Ok, so you're on board as long as you're extremely happy, but I'm talking about unconditional love. I mean women who hold everything their master says for truth, who would do anything, anything. Not because they want to, but because they have to, because it's who they are.

AGfS

PS. I know I'm probably wrong, but I wanna keep the discussion goin', so what the hell. DS

Yes unconditional love exists. Sometimes Master uses me in ways that i may not particularly like better than others, and sometimes He makes decisions that i find hard to process but i still love Him. i surrendered to Him...i am His slave not loves slave. He has the final word on all things whether i like it or not. Even in the end i still find pleasure out of knowing that i pleased Master even if it was in a way that i may not have chosen. To know that i have displeased Him is the most upsetting to me as i never want to displease nor disappoint Master.

 

[anotherguyfromsweden]

If I got what he's asking right the answer is no.

Think about it, if they really were just looking for someone to devote themselves to without getting anything back, why would they choose you?

Are you that fucking cool?

No, I ain't that fuckin' cool, but like pretty much all other dudes out there (I assume) I wouldn't give nothin' back. I thought we'd already established the fact that I'm not some assshole who's out to get a maid or a cook, if I was wrong; consider it established!

Let me ask the question a little differently:
Are there women who would put their life in the hands of someone, after maybe livin' with the guy for some time to make sure he's not a complete nutjob?

Not give him their life for the promise of gettin' something in return, but for the possibility of gettin' somethin'.

Not like "I'll give myself to you if you do this and that", more like "I'll give myself to you if and you can do anything you wish with me", and then hope that the guy's not an idiot.

Are there women who'd give up their free will and mind for nothing but the possibilty of gettin' something in return, should the dominant part of the relationship choose to give somethin' back?