Does/should motivation for a partner's kink matter?

[Homburg]

Obviously you have a broken family.

My family was straight, thankyouverymuch. Our baker was a freak though. Exposed me to all sorts of shameful baked goods at an impressionable age. I still have strong responses to cheesecake and *shudder* creamhorns.

I'm so ashamed.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[Homburg]

:grouphug: It's OK, Homburg. We're here for you.

And I didn't even get to the part where I want to share my sammiches with everyone!

Netzach, sometimes I want bologna and american on white. I think it's the food version of pissplay. Ohhh it's soooo bad but sometimes I just gotta have it.

And I was trying SO hard not to make a pervy coment about want to try a bit of your sandwich...

 

[EmpressFi]

ok.. you evil sadist, (Homburg)....

now you've gone and done it.. I've made me crave the only whole grain wheat or white bread that's made me weak in the knees... ask Malin.. in Scotland, we bought whole grain wheat bread and this white bread that was so soft.. and so rich and so thick.. man.. it was almost a work of art....

*sigh*

you finally broke me..and made me admit you're evil...

as far as the OP.. or what it evolved in to. The husband and I.. (despite the evidence found in my AV) have a fairly vanilla sex life.. even though we're both submissive to our lovers.

But I dont sit and ponder why I have this urge to submit or why being struck by a flogger makes me wet... makes me fly. I dont really care why, all I know, is that I really like it. I also dont sit and ponder why Master loves to dominate or have me submit.. It's just something I accept.

As far as my childhood.. I had a completely normal.. except for the death of my father when I was 12. My parents were evangelical Christians. My mother though that that french kissing was gross.. or at least that's what she tried to tell me when boys started coming around. Maybe it was that I slept in their room in my toddler bed until I was 5. Or maybe, my father's illnesss, combined with me being the youngest of 8, AND that my dad was 55 when I was born turned me into a "daddy's girl"..and that I brought that into my adulthood, seeking the approval from a male father figure...

I dont really care. As long as his motive isnt to inflict bodily harm (the abusive kind) or to scar me emotionally... as long as he treats me as if I were the most treasured possession he has.. I dont really care if his mother's Auntie teased him into dominance...

 

[Homburg]

ok.. you evil sadist, (Homburg)....

now you've gone and done it.. I've made me crave the only whole grain wheat or white bread that's made me weak in the knees... ask Malin.. in Scotland, we bought whole grain wheat bread and this white bread that was so soft.. and so rich and so thick.. man.. it was almost a work of art....

*sigh*

you finally broke me..and made me admit you're evil...

Glad to see that you are finally accepting the truth of the situation.

Though I do agree. I really miss European baked goods. I'd kill for a bag of fresh brotchen, real Black Forest ham, and good swiss cheese. Seriously. Kill.

And don't get me started on how freaky much I'd like a rindwurst and pomme frites wrapped in a paper plate, still hot and greasy, and slathered with the mustard that I've only ever found at cheap roadside places in Germany.

*drool*

 

[FungiUg]

My partner is gluten-intolerant and can't eat any wheat products. That includes most bread. I'm trying to work out how that fits into this conversation.

 

[DeservingBitch]

My partner is gluten-intolerant and can't eat any wheat products. That includes most bread. I'm trying to work out how that fits into this conversation.

You're a sadistic abuser who prey on fragile people.

 

[FungiUg]

You're a sadistic abuser who prey on fragile people.

Ah. Yeah, I guess that could be it.

 

[intothewoods]

forced sandwich scene...hawt.

 

[half_full]

Only if it's this perfume!

I think this thread is brilliant. I could have spared myself so many years of frustration if I had just understood what yall are saying from the get-go: namely, that I enjoy what I enjoy and that's OK. I tried to overanalyze it at the beginning, and it led to lots of bad sex. Glad that phase is over with and I can get on with thinking less and sexing more!

I'm running a little behind the curve here because I've been offine for a couple of days and now have to play catch up with this thread. But, I am glad you said this. You see, it really isn't about sex or specific acts of sex. The question in the OP was much broader than that. You would be completely correct if one's goal was just to have great sex and lots of it. Don't think about it, just do. But what if one's goal was to enter a long-term committed realtionship based on an unequal power exchange - HOH, Dom/Sub, Master/Slave? How about a service oriented realtionship with no sexual component? I did state in the OP that I knew the answers would be different for people just looking to 'scene' vs people in/looking for long term relationships. The focus of so much of this thread has been on questioning why people get aroused, why they like to hug, kiss, touch, why they react to certain stimuli, etc. But that was never the original question.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[unfoundiamond]

Is this an example of that?

I once worked as a "phone personality" as they called it, I was a phone sex operator to be honest. I had to play many characters, whatever they wanted you did when the red light came on. This time I had to be a Domme, I took a stern no nonsence attitude and proceeded checking a reffrence book and feeding lines. I ended up roleplaying with him, He wanted me to put nice heels, and boots and walk on his body. He wanted me to talk shit about his body, make him lay down and walk on his extremities, I did everything he wanted, and then some... making him feel good and almost hearing the smile in his voice. I enjoyed his calls and we spoke a few times. Eventually being the kind of person I am, I got him to tell me the "motivation behind his kink" and boy was I sorry. I am a caring person, and I think it is called empathy when you can feel someones pain, Well I felt his.
He told me he was a quadripalegic, it happened in a accident. He said he hated his body, it confined him and he despised it. I felt so bad for him after he told me, and I knew I had imaginarily been the one walking on it... It made me feel like I was bad...

He told me I had helped him by giving him something to fantiasize about, help him to get off since he obviously couldnt masterbate... I was shocked... I understood him but his motivation was sad to me... I had a overhwelming sad feeling which I feel now as I write this, He was such a nice man, the most polite, sweet... and I talked to plenty that wherent...

Isn't this a real life case of a persons motivation making you question if you should be involved in their fantasy?
Just thought of this when I read your post...

 

[FurryFury]

My thoughts haven't changed on this. It doesn't matter if you call it sex or not, it's all the same to me.

 

[Netzach]

I once worked as a "phone personality" as they called it, I was a phone sex operator to be honest. I had to play many characters, whatever they wanted you did when the red light came on. This time I had to be a Domme, I took a stern no nonsence attitude and proceeded checking a reffrence book and feeding lines. I ended up roleplaying with him, He wanted me to put nice heels, and boots and walk on his body. He wanted me to talk shit about his body, make him lay down and walk on his extremities, I did everything he wanted, and then some... making him feel good and almost hearing the smile in his voice. I enjoyed his calls and we spoke a few times. Eventually being the kind of person I am, I got him to tell me the "motivation behind his kink" and boy was I sorry. I am a caring person, and I think it is called empathy when you can feel someones pain, Well I felt his.
He told me he was a quadripalegic, it happened in a accident. He said he hated his body, it confined him and he despised it. I felt so bad for him after he told me, and I knew I had imaginarily been the one walking on it... It made me feel like I was bad...

He told me I had helped him by giving him something to fantiasize about, help him to get off since he obviously couldnt masterbate... I was shocked... I understood him but his motivation was sad to me... I had a overhwelming sad feeling which I feel now as I write this, He was such a nice man, the most polite, sweet... and I talked to plenty that wherent...

Isn't this a real life case of a persons motivation making you question if you should be involved in their fantasy?
Just thought of this when I read your post...

I think someone who rarely has a chance to get off with someone else did.

How is that bad?

 

[DeservingBitch]

I think someone who rarely has a chance to get off with someone else did.

How is that bad?

What she said.

Or, how is that much different from me for instance, who's always been told how fucking smart and brilliant I am, who's over-educated, and who sometime gets off on having a ButchTop call me a 'stupid little cunt' and make me do stupid, idiotic stuff? It's fucking liberating if you ask me. No I don't go there often. But the times I did, I loved it. And so did she.

 

[half_full]

First, unless you are able to believe that there can be a neat, clear, and simple explanation for sexual desires, needs, and interests, I think that you are setting up yourself for failure in asking the questions you ask. Myself - along with most specialists and scholars on the issue - I think that a complex, fluid, and interrelated combination of socialization, social and familial context, personal history, personal subjectivity, and a touch of this magical 'je-ne-sais-quoi' all contribute in the making of a person's sexuality. Which is to say that there's no way to know for sure. But like a lot of other things in life, this desire for 'pure knowledge' that you seem to present often comes from a lack of faith and trust in oneself: because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if you can 'know' for sure what the other person is about. What matters is that you trust that you can make the best decisions for yourself, and that you trust that you'll be OK, even when things turns shitty.

This is a very important point and I'm glad you made it. I have given this more thought than you can possibly know. It's not 'pure knowledge' of my sexual needs and desires that I seek. I know who I am, and what I am, and why I am, and for the most part I have accepted it. It is the consequences of this knowledge that can be a little scary and intimidating. I have too much life experience and wisdom to not consider consequences and implications of my actions. As I've gotten older I've become risk averse, especially when it comes to relationships. I prefer due-dilligence and knowledge to faith. So you are right, in a sense - I lack faith. When someone is 25, of course they'll be OK when things turn shitty. Few mistakes we ever make at 25ish adversely affect the rest of our lives. At my age and station in life it is a whole different story. Who, before the age 30-35, ever really thinks about risk, consequence, implications, disappointment, starting over, or anything else that is life? No, they are too busy living, learning, discovering, trying and trying again. At 42 I am discovering myself in a way I should have done 15-20 yrs ago when I had absolutely nothing to lose. I find myself in a unique position where after years of religious and social brainwashing I have a clean slate to redefine right and wrong, moral and immoral, good and bad, ethical and unethical. Any dominant man I accept in to my life will have the opportunity to help define those things for me. The implications of that go far beyond just sex. When I desire, more than anything, to be in a relationship where obedience is expected and I want to give it, where his will becomes my own with little room for negotiation, can I afford to fuck this up? Let me ask everyone over 40 in the forum reading this, who is active and established in the lifestyle, if you had to take all of your accumulated knowledge and experiences from the moment of your first desires and urges until now - all the shame, guilt, discovery, pain, failed relationships, mistakes - and relive it all from the beginning starting at 40, would you do it?
Only those people who think BDSM is just about sex could come to the conclusion that those things which could do me greatest harm include a little candle wax or a paddle.
So now I can answer your question on motivation.

Finally, I'll just repeat a question I've asked you in my first (and so far only) comment in this thread: why do you focus on motivations for BDSM? why not focusing on your 'vanilla' needs/desires (such as being hugged or gently kissed by a partner)? From where i'm sitting, you seem to be assuming that non-BDSM (or more generally non-kinky) sexuality is 'unmotivated' and/or that the motivations for non-BDSM sexuality are somehow necessarily healthy, normal, and 'sane' and therefore do not require questioning.

Since we clearly have two different understandings of the intent of the question, the best way for me to answer this is to explain what I was thinking when I asked it and give a couple of examples. If I were going to consider a vanilla relationship, there would be certain 'behaviors,' sexual and other, that for me would raise red flags or concern of some underlying or unresolved issues - things such as divorced twice and working on a third, multiple children from unwed partners, habitual unfaithfulness, no relationships with immediate or extended family, career/employment situation unstable, etc. Any one of these things would not necessarily be a deal breaker, but I would certainly ask questions, such as why. As I started learning about D/s based relationships, I began asking myself, beyond the kinds of things mentioned above, what would be those red flags for me? After all, many of the activities in the lifestyle would be considered unethical at best, illegal at most in a vanilla relationship. So where would I draw the line? How would I know what was acceptable?
I considered things such as consent, need, hapiness, enjoyment. But all of those fell short for a variety of reasons. For me, personally, it came down to intent. I could allow someone to punish me, humiliate me, embarrass me, lie to me, get angry with me, use me sexually, require my service, demand my obedience, as long as their behavior was not borne of misogyny or other anger, deception, or narcissism. I made a connection, right or wrong, between motivation and intent. I started wondering if I would know the difference between a dominant man who demanded obedience because he was narcissistic, or because he required control to satisfy some carnal desire. Further, I wondered whether there was a difference between the misogynistic vanilla man who slaps his wife because she disrespected him and the misogynistic Dom who punishes his sub because she deserved it. In my mind, there was no difference because motivation was the same, not because consent was or was not given. I was also curious about the broader implications of this. Does it matter if a woman's submissive tendencies are a result of upbringing or low self esteem? Is a sadist more dangerous if his urges are fueled by repressed anger rather than a hormone imbalance? So I asked the question in the OP thinking that people experienced in the lifestyle could offer their insite and opinions to serve as a litmus test of sorts for identifying negative motivations. This is not the kind of thing that I wanted to spend years figuring out through trial and error. As I've said before, I am convinced that it was a valid question, but I asked it for the wrong reasons, thus many of the responses were not at all what I expected. This thread quickly deteriorated into accusations of yet another 'outsider' thinking everyone in the lifestyle suffered abused during childhood, and further that every sexual behavior, such as arousal, kissing, touching, and reactions to various stimuli required introspection and motivation. I hope this answered your question and maybe cleared things up a bit.

 

[Quint]

.............

 

[half_full]

Not my style either, and I'm not suggesting you start doing volunteer work as a greeter for your local munch or anything... I'm saying making a commitment to sitting down, having a diet coke, and staying 30 minutes won't kill you, and might actually be benificial in some way... another thing to consider, BTW, is that as a sumbissive - you often get the "pleasure" of doing things that aren't your style, aren't your thing, and make you horribly uncomfortable...

Don't think I haven't considered this as well. The thought crosses my mind often. As I have gotten older I have become settled in my ways, with very defined comfort zones. Shit, I have become my grandmother. This is another one of those huge implications that I will have to consider when choosing a partner. I know that there is no greater test of submission than being told to do something which makes you feel uncomfortable. I am well aware that the right wickedly evil Dom could have a field day with me.

Ah hah! I finally think I understand where the disconnect may be. Punishment is a totally different animal than discipline/sadism/masochism/submission. A Top/Dom/Master SHOULD be able to explain EXACTLY why he's punishing his slave. It is corrective behaviour, it is punishment... to not be able to articulate why would be akin to a parent deciding to spank a child without telling the child what the infraction was, or a teacher sending a student to detention without commenting on what rule had been broken, or an officer grabbing you off the street and throwing you in jail without explaining what law was broken. "I can punish her when/where/how I want, just because I can" leads down the path to abuse... "I can crop/flog discipline her because I can and she consents to it" does not.

Actually, not quite. I do agree with everything you said here, but this was not my interpretation of JMohegan's conversation. My interpretation was closer to Homburg's as he described it in his response to my post. I am going to respond to him on this matter if you care to read my thoughts there.

One is a very specific act; the other is a broad umbrella. You find out the quality of person who hangs out under the broad umbrella by getting to know them (recognizing there are very few neat and tidy answers to why people enjoy the kinks they do), and through that process find out if they are competent and capable of being trusted to do things like not run about punishing willy nilly with no regard to you as a person.

So I think this gets to the heart of the fatal flaw in the OP. As I stated to DeservingBitch, I think in the answers to the question I was looking for a litmus test to be able to identify the quality of the people under that umbrella. And maybe the answer is "There is none."

 

[_kiana_]

But what if one's goal was to enter a long-term committed realtionship based on an unequal power exchange - HOH, Dom/Sub, Master/Slave? How about a service oriented realtionship with no sexual component? I did state in the OP that I knew the answers would be different for people just looking to 'scene' vs people in/looking for long term relationships. The focus of so much of this thread has been on questioning why people get aroused, why they like to hug, kiss, touch, why they react to certain stimuli, etc. But that was never the original question.

First of all, if you wanted answers pertaining to relationships, you should have made that clear in the OP. I just reread it, and it certainly reads as you were asking for opinions on mainly activities that occur with in a relationship, not on the broader topic of the relationship itself

Let me ask everyone over 40 in the forum reading this, who is active and established in the lifestyle, if you had to take all of your accumulated knowledge and experiences from the moment of your first desires and urges until now - all the shame, guilt, discovery, pain, failed relationships, mistakes - and relive it all from the beginning starting at 40, would you do it?

You'll find that the majority of people who are into BDSM and over 40, most likely found out about or finally accepted their inclinations in their 30's and 40's.

When someone is 25, of course they'll be OK when things turn shitty. Few mistakes we ever make at 25ish adversely affect the rest of our lives.

You are making a mighty judgment there. Most of the people into BDSM at a young age who are serious about it do realize just how much it could affect/effect them adversely in the future. There are several regulars I can think of off hand (having only been here a few months) that are young and single, and are being very picky about who they get into a relationship with.

what would be those red flags for me? After all, many of the activities in the lifestyle would be considered unethical at best, illegal at most in a vanilla relationship. So where would I draw the line? How would I know what was acceptable?

But I will try to give you an honest answer here.

It's pretty much the same as with choosing a vanilla partner.

When looking to go into a D/s relationship, it's still just a relationship. You need to do all the 'normal' looking into the person as before. If their motivation for kink is because of misogyny, that would very likely become apparent just by getting to know them and being a very good observer. You don't go from strangers to an M/s contract where the slave's only choice is leaving the relationship in a few days. I think you can get my point there.

Obvious things? It's good if they are involved in the local 'scene'. Attending munches, educational things, etc. Then they will very likely have friends who can 'vouch' for their motives and character. (That's another reason to think about it for yourself.) How are their other relationships, with family and friends. Do they admit that they do not know everything and are willing to learn about new things? Or do they act like they can't be wrong?

In general, it does really end up being like going into any other intimate relationship. You need to learn about their personality and judge for yourself. I understand your question better now. Because of the obvious inequality it's much easier for the people you don't want to get involved with to find someone who will take the crap.

One of the biggest pieces of advice I'd give you? Make friends who know about the lifestyle (even just online!) and stay in contact with them, always. (Forcing a submissive to cut off contact is one of those big red flags, btw.) And listen to their advice. If they smell something wrong with what might be happening in a new relationship you've gone into, they will probably be right because we all get blind to the red flags when we're having fun with the new relationship.

 

[Homburg]

At 42 I am discovering myself in a way I should have done 15-20 yrs ago when I had absolutely nothing to lose. I find myself in a unique position where after years of religious and social brainwashing I have a clean slate to redefine right and wrong, moral and immoral, good and bad, ethical and unethical.

I completely, totally, and unequivocably disagree with this entire concept.

You should consider yourself FORTUNATE. You should thank your lucky stars that you have come to this realisation, and awakening, at an age where you have the unique combination of maturity, self-awareness, and personal control over your own life-s circumstances to be able to fully explore your desires.

I frequently cringe when I see some young person walking into this scene with starry eyes, a desire to kneel, and not enough sense to know who not to kneel before. It scares me. Sure, there are those that are beautifully self-aware and mature beyond their years. (I correspond with one young lady in particular that never fails to impress me with how possessed she is of well-defined self-knowledge.) Far too many young people wander into this without the emotional resources to handle it IMO.

You are a mature, intelligent, successful woman that can honestly afford to make a jump such as this. You are not a single mom trying to feed three kids on a Walmart paycheck. You are not a starry-eyed 23 year old who has found her heart's desire holding a flogger and a hank of rope.

You speak as if you are fraught with disadvantage when, in reality, many new submissives would envy your position.

 

[Netzach]

When you have an illness that calls into question whether you get to see fifty let alone see fifty without being completely physically destroyed, you cut the bullshit, and LIVE your life and stop pondering your own navel. So you might make a horrible mistake and regret what you did. Or you can regret all the shit you never did. I've already had to rebuild large chunks of my life, I certainly would have no qualms about doing it again at 40, as it beats the other options.

The notion that someone has nothing to lose because they're younger than you are and don't have what you value in life, is laughable.

So you might bend your will and open yourself to someone who doesn't deserve it and isn't right. You might put everything in and get fucked over. And at an older age.

It's happened to better people than you AND me. It's life, it's the risk and the price.

I think that's a pretty good insight for a 34 year old. Sucks how I got it.

I think kiana pretty much expressed how it works. There is no road map for vetting the OK ness of another person - you have to as I said above - take risk. Not just blithely jump in like a moron, but accept that what you think may be on the surface may not be what's actually there. People make a constant stream of mistakes in relationships and sometimes win, and that's pretty much it. Whatever makes you like a person and decide to let them into your confidences is pretty much what you need to rely on and look for.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[DeservingBitch]

So where would I draw the line? How would I know what was acceptable?
I considered things such as consent, need, hapiness, enjoyment. But all of those fell short for a variety of reasons. For me, personally, it came down to intent. I could allow someone to punish me, humiliate me, embarrass me, lie to me, get angry with me, use me sexually, require my service, demand my obedience, as long as their behavior was not borne of misogyny or other anger, deception, or narcissism. I made a connection, right or wrong, between motivation and intent. I started wondering if I would know the difference between a dominant man who demanded obedience because he was narcissistic, or because he required control to satisfy some carnal desire. Further, I wondered whether there was a difference between the misogynistic vanilla man who slaps his wife because she disrespected him and the misogynistic Dom who punishes his sub because she deserved it. In my mind, there was no difference because motivation was the same, not because consent was or was not given. I was also curious about the broader implications of this. Does it matter if a woman's submissive tendencies are a result of upbringing or low self esteem? Is a sadist more dangerous if his urges are fueled by repressed anger rather than a hormone imbalance? So I asked the question in the OP thinking that people experienced in the lifestyle could offer their insite and opinions to serve as a litmus test of sorts for identifying negative motivations. This is not the kind of thing that I wanted to spend years figuring out through trial and error. As I've said before, I am convinced that it was a valid question, but I asked it for the wrong reasons, thus many of the responses were not at all what I expected. This thread quickly deteriorated into accusations of yet another 'outsider' thinking everyone in the lifestyle suffered abused during childhood, and further that every sexual behavior, such as arousal, kissing, touching, and reactions to various stimuli required introspection and motivation. I hope this answered your question and maybe cleared things up a bit.

A few things:

Yes, I agree with you that it is important for you and your safety to figure out, to a certain extent, whether a potential Dom partner is in the lifestyle as a venue to act out on his rage, anger, mysogyny, or general assholery. Yes, those people exist, and there's no reason to believe that they only exist in 'mainstream' society.

But, where I disagree with you, and where I think you're taking the wrong path, is when you ask about motivations rather than focusing on behavior. I'll take myself as an example.

I very much enjoy having grown up, successful, accomplished, masculine, white bourgeois men at my feet, begging me to pee on them, spit in their face, or bark for me just because it amuses me. Do I think that it has something to do with my being a queer woman, who's been objectified by men all my life, who lives in what is still a very sexist, elitist society, and who basically encounters white-bourgeois-male privilege on a daily basis? You bet I do. Of course my enjoying this power over those men has something to do with me lacking that very power in my daily life. But the important bit is this: I enjoy these moments ONLY because these men not only give me their consent to objectify and torture them, but also because they want it, need it, and beg me for it. In those moments we share, we are making each other happy and wet/hard. And in those moments, as much as I objectify them and treat them like shit, I also deeply 'love' them for that opportunity they give me. And importantly, I do not walk around in life being a bitch to every men who doesn't ask for it, nor do I hate men. As they say, some of my best friends are men! I very much believe in respect, honesty, and being responsible toward my others, and I work hard to live by those standards. That, the way I interact with and treat other people speaks to the person I am, and this is what matters. This is what makes it possible for those who bottom for me to believe that I won't kill them, and will do everything in my power to prevent them from being harmed.

So my point is, yes you need to be careful about who you are going to submit to. But it is not their 'motivations' for being in the lifestyle that is really important to make that jugement call. What matter is what kind of person they are, how they behave in 'normal' social settings, how they treat other people (both strangers and intimates), what their values and morals are, etc. In other words, behavior speak much more loudly about someone than any deep motivations or intends. Especially since we all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Netzach]

A few things:

Yes, I agree with you that it is important for you and your safety to figure out, to a certain extent, whether a potential Dom partner is in the lifestyle as a venue to act out on his rage, anger, mysogyny, or general assholery. Yes, those people exist, and there's no reason to believe that they only exist in 'mainstream' society.

But, where I disagree with you, and where I think you're taking the wrong path, is when you ask about motivations rather than focusing on behavior. I'll take myself as an example.

I very much enjoy having grown up, successful, accomplished, masculine, white bourgeois men at my feet, begging me to pee on them, spit in their face, or bark for me just because it amuses me. Do I think that it has something to do with my being a queer woman, who's been objectified by men all my life, who lives in what is still a very sexist, elitist society, and who basically encounters white-bourgeois-male privilege on a daily basis? You bet I do. Of course my enjoying this power over those men has something to do with me lacking that very power in my daily life. But the important bit is this: I enjoy these moments ONLY because these men not only give me their consent to objectify and torture them, but also because they want it, need it, and beg me for it. In those moments we share, we are making each other happy and wet/hard. And in those moments, as much as I objectify them and treat them like shit, I also deeply 'love' them for that opportunity they give me. And importantly, I do not walk around in life being a bitch to every men who doesn't ask for it, nor do I hate men. As they say, some of my best friends are men! I very much believe in respect, honesty, and being responsible toward my others, and I work hard to live by those standards. That, the way I interact with and treat other people speaks to the person I am, and this is what matters. This is what makes it possible for those who bottom for me to believe that I won't kill them, and will do everything in my power to prevent them from being harmed.

So my point is, yes you need to be careful about who you are going to submit to. But it is not their 'motivations' for being in the lifestyle that is really important to make that jugement call. What matter is what kind of person they are, how they behave in 'normal' social settings, how they treat other people (both strangers and intimates), what their values and morals are, etc. In other words, behavior speak much more loudly about someone than any deep motivations or intends. Especially since we all know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'd go one further, and suggest that this outlet may even prevent me from going out of my way to mistreat men outside the sphere of sexual deviance. I look at some of the women I know who would not consider themsevles kinked, just divorced and bitter and my hatred is a miniscule drop in the bucket by comparison.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I'd go one further, and suggest that this outlet may even prevent me from going out of my way to mistreat men outside the sphere of sexual deviance. I look at some of the women I know who would not consider themsevles kinked, just divorced and bitter and my hatred is a miniscule drop in the bucket by comparison.

Oh yes - that too.

I think that I am a much healthier, better, and more sane person BECAUSE I have this outlet than I would be without it.
And I think that the men I play with, who needs this objectification and ridicule to evade for one moment from the pressure of being 'masculine, strong, rational' and all that crap are also in a much better position than those who don't have that outlet.