Dom/mes; men-of either stripe, or switch.

[Sandia]

Green, Kes, thank you for posting.

I'd like to bring up the question of relating to subs (or subs relating to doms) again; do y'all think it's better to relate "in play" in the getting-to-know-you stage, or not? (seems like there's pratfalls either way.)

I guess the related question is, is there a difference? For you, I mean.

Sandia.

 

[cellis]

From a sub's perspective...

I chose Himself. We have discussed this many times, the two of us. I had many, many offers and some I considered... some I met and all but Himself, I found lacking or too much for me.

We talked and we talked and we talked, before we ever met. We knew each other well, our likes and dislikes, and knew a lot about who the other was as a person before we ever met.

And then he spent time getting to know me and my body before he ever took the ropes and bound my hands.

I know that it is not like this for everyone, but this is how it was for us. It was slow. He was in control, when I would have pushed harder and faster, he slowed things down. When I would have proceeded without caution, he took control. That is one of the main reason that I can trust him today. He would not let me get away topping from the bottom. He would not let me run the show.

It has been over nine months now and we are still learning from each other. I can look back and see where we started, and know that I could not imagine myself then where I am today.

I know this probably doesn't answer the questions you have posed, Sandia, however, I feel I must add, that before there was BDSM, there was a relationship with the two of us. The BDSM was there, we knew that is what we both wanted, but that was secondary to the relationship for us.

I also want to say that the relationship is not always easy. It is afterall a relationship with two people of different thoughts and opinions. And if BDSM ceased to exist, it would still be a relationship first. We have to live in the world we have. BDSM is the gravy that makes it oh so very much better.

 

[MLadyPain]

Communication is the key...for any and all aspects of a bdsm relationship. From the first acknowledgment of each others presence to negotiation to aftercare to ....y'all get the picture lol I've know so-called Doms/Masters who have forbidden their partners to express their opinions. There has to be some outlet, some method of communications that is open and honest, without retribution - or else it isn't a relationship.

MLP
known to refuse a gag so she can carry on a running commentary of scene LOL

 

[cymbidia]

I'd like to bring up the question of relating to subs (or subs relating to doms) again; do y'all think it's better to relate "in play" in the getting-to-know-you stage, or not? (seems like there's pratfalls either way.)

I guess the related question is, is there a difference? For you, I mean.

Normally, i want to spend non-sexual time talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, goddamn talking with the potential dominant, if i'm looking for a real D/s relationship. If i just want kinky sex, well, that's another story, right? If i just want your basic top/bottom kinda thing, why waste time talking after you've got the basics taken care of?

It depends on what you're looking for. Is it a casual play party situation? Get the basics out of the way and play, baby! Is it the potential mate of your lifetime? Talk, a lot, first. For a real D/s relationship, everything starts from the fact that you're both people before you're a dominant or a submissive. It seems to me that your interpersonal relationship has to work for your sexual relationship to be of lasting value.

I've know so-called Doms/Masters who have forbidden their partners to express their opinions.

I'd be so out of there if someone wasn't interested in listening to the truth from my heart, my soul, my thoughts, my feelings about what occured between us - whether it was in play or just as people. Out of there, i tell you. In a heartbeat.

Luckily, i've never run across anyone who tried to forbid me an opinion. Not for-real people, anyway. You weren't talking about online training-wheel doms, were you?

 

[BlackWolfe]

how do you decide on taking on a sub?

Seriously, Kestral makes the decision, but I get a veto right on it. She's more serious about the lifestyle than I am, quite frankly.

how do you make sure not to hurt one, especially emotionally?

Egshells. I am VEEEEEERY careful about what I say and/or do. Generally, though, the main concern is not to let a submissive or slave hurt Kestral, which is why I get veto rights.

what mistakes have you made?

I once looked at a corral tie in the equestrian section of PetSmart and wondered why their ankle spreaders were so flexible...&ltEDIT&gtIt's a corral tie, not a lead rope, sez Kestral. And she'd know.&lt/EDIT&gt

My biggest mistake has been not being more involved in my wife's relationships -- which is one of the reasons I joined this board.

and, this question is a little awkward, but, what do you get out of being dom?

Let's see...

• I'm not as easily embarrassed as I once was.
• I understand myself better.
• A sense of control, not only over others, but over myself.
• Revenge on a society that spurned me. Wait, no, that's what I'd get out of being a supervillain...

I am incapable of taking anything seriously, apparently...

 

[BlackWolfe]

"in play"?

I'd like to bring up the question of relating to subs (or subs relating to doms) again; do y'all think it's better to relate "in play" in the getting-to-know-you stage, or not? (seems like there's pratfalls either way.)

Kes and I are of one mind on this: OUT OF PLAY. BEFORE you play, you should get a good feel for the person you intend to build a relationship with.

How else can you know you can trust them and vice-versa?

 

[Sandia]

BlackWolfe

I apologize if you've already posted this somewhere before, but would you be willing to post more about your and Kestral's relationship?

And, I think I agree with you. I think maybe it's a mistake to so much as talk "in play" until you get to know someone. But I understand cym's point. It's something that's prolly different for everyone. Perhaps if someone were always in play - if they were always dom or sub - it'd be different for them.

Sandia.

 

[Dragon Dreamer]

Well, I guess I'll put in my 2 cents here.

I personally son't feel there is a big difference between picking a sub in a Dom/sub relationship and picking a partner in a regular relationship. You are looking for the same things, someone you can communicate with, care about, someone you are attracted to physically, mentally and emotionally. Those things need to be there just as much, if not more, in a D/s relationship just as they do in a more vanilla relationship.

I think it basically comes down to that you pick each other. D/s is just a little more complicated, as you have to add in the entire D/s aspects of limits, for both the Dom and the sub, (trust me, Doms have limits too), the safety aspects, etc.

I hope that answers the question on some level.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: BlackWolfe

I think maybe it's a mistake to so much as talk "in play" until you get to know someone. But I understand cym's point. It's something that's prolly different for everyone. Perhaps if someone were always in play - if they were always dom or sub - it'd be different for them.

Hmmm.

What do you mean by "in play", Sandia?

When i'm in a BDSM relationship - not just playing with someone i know (or don't really know) in casual way, such as at a public or private play party - then i talk. Constantly. In scene and out. In the shower and while i'm getting dressed. Just before i slip into a post-play sleep cuddled up next to him and when i awaken from that sleep. When he's flogging me and when he's atop me, holding me down, testing my strength against his (i'm a big fan of really rough sex) his teeth in my skin.

I'm a talker. I expect to be heard, to be listened to, for my opinions and feelings to matter. In or out of scene.

Actually, i'm not an incessant chatterbox. I really only talk when i have something to share, but i share openly and easily. anyone who knows me on a personal level will tell you that when i get nervous or upset or way emotional in some way, i begin to talk. (Ask Risia. Ask Muff. Heck, ask Wolf when he comes back from vacation.)

When people are new to each other and playing (by "play" i'm assuming you mean something kinda like "being sexual with each other in a BDSM sexuality manner"), they both havew to talk. They have to communicate what is good-bad sensation and what is bad-bad sensation. How can they begin to learn each other's needs and desires and responses if they don't both talk and both listen?

If it's just a casual play situation, something they may not ever repeat with each other, or something of value primarily from a sexual perspective, then they need to both talk and both hear limits and safewords and fears, at the very least, before the play begins.

In established and emotionally bonded BDSM relationships, sometimes the submissive partner is forbidden to speak for one reason or another. In these cases, though, an infinitely deep well of trust is already present - and that makes all the difference in the world, don't you think?

Howwever, in my opinion, when newer to each other, we can't do this forbidden-to-speak thing and be in any way safe.

 

[Sandia]

"in play:"

acting out dominant and submissive roles; either through explicitly sexual behavior or even just through styles of communication.

It seems to me there's a wide range on this. Some people have dominant or submissive personalities and interact with everyone on that basis. (Or at least to the extent possible without getting stepped on or getting into fights all the time.)

Some folks regard D/s as purely sexual activity; they don't regard being dominant or submissive as part of their personality except as a way of relating to their lover sexually.

Other folks simply enjoy the trappings of BDSM. They don't regard being spanked or tied up as emotional or spiritual expressions but purely as sexual kinks or physical sensations, without deeper meaning.

Anyway, I was curious if that makes sense to you.

It strikes me people coming from different places might have trouble relating to each other sometimes.

Sandia.

 

[SpectreT]

Have you ever seen someone as strong-willed and self-assured as a BDSM submissive? I haven't. When they have something to say, I, for one, listen.

Subs not allowed to have an opinion? Where my mother comes from, they sell that stuff by the waggonload as fertilizer.

That addressed, any relationship will sometimes feel like a Marx Brothers film, with the rest of the world getting most of the snazzy Groucho lines. Seriously, communication, self-knowledge, self-respect, and a massive truckload of trust and respect for one another are key before playtime in a serious, committed relationship. I personally don't care much for the "quick pick-up game", but that's just this fuzzy Beast.

 

[cellis]

We talk before and disect it piece by piece afterward, but I don't talk during. He talks to me... he tells me what he wants, he tells me what to do and how to do it.

I only talk during when he tells me to or asks me a question, and I prefer it that way.

I want and need the sound of his voice, but I don't want to have to think enough to do anything but answer in the most basic ways.

This is what works for us.

Afterward, we take it apart and disect it... looking at what worked and what did not. He is very interested in what works for me and why and I, being a the person I am, have to think about it for awhile. It takes me a little while to know what I felt about scene and why.

I guess this is different for others, but as i said this is what works for us.

 

[Sandia]

fuzzy Beast:

Have you ever seen someone as strong-willed and self-assured as a BDSM submissive? I haven't.

I've seen both troubled and submissive subs and strong-willed and assertive ones.

Sandia.

 

[SpectreT]

Re: fuzzy Beast:

I've seen both troubled and submissive subs and strong-willed and assertive ones.

Sandia.

<there's no rueful, slightly half-embarrassed smiley, so you get the descriptor instead.>

Uhm, I claim lesser experience on that one.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: fuzzy Beast:

I've seen both troubled and submissive subs and strong-willed and assertive ones.

I'm sometimes both, although not usually simultaneously.

Don't you feel sorry for my dominant?

 

[BlackWolfe]

Re: Re: fuzzy Beast:

I'm sometimes both, although not usually simultaneously.
Don't you feel sorry for my dominant?

I do. All I can say is, "it takes all kinds." Really, though, when I say that, I mean it, and not in the facetious way it's usually said...

 

[Sandia]

Puh - leaze..

<there's no rueful, slightly half-embarrassed smiley, so you get the descriptor instead.>

Uhm, I claim lesser experience on that one.

Mind you, I ain't claimin experience here..

"Seen," as in, uh, talked to, chatted with, met, etc..

Sandia.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Re: Re: fuzzy Beast:

I do. All I can say is, "it takes all kinds." Really, though, when I say that, I mean it, and not in the facetious way it's usually said...

...and i'm taking it as sincerely as you've meant it, too.

In all honesty, it requires a strong, centered, focused, aware, intuitive, and emotionally mature dominant to handle who i am in one of our kinds of relationships. Most simply can't meet the job requirements. I'm not high maintenence in the classic sense but i do ask a lot more of my partner - and need to give in equal proportion - then most neophytes can possibly handle.

It does, indeed, take all kinds. Some of us up here on the very experienced end of the spectrum get a little lonely at times, too, because of that. Were James around (instead of off having wildly heated summer fun), i think he could verify my feelings on this.

 

[BBD]

Re: Re: Dom/mes; men-of either stripe, or switch.

I will echo the others here. I do not pick my submissive, she chooses me. I am not a desperate thing, to go running around frantically searching through the gutters for anyone who professes submission. Neither am I pompous, or conceited, to snub a submissive of quality who seeks me out.

I wanted to echo your echo, even though I'm coming to the party late as usual. Even in my mostly v/t days, I didn't go trolling through chat rooms advertising an opening for a submissive. Truth be told, while I knew next-to-nothing I also knew that doing that sort of thing speaks volumes about the character of a person. I wouldn't want to associate with one who would submit to just anyone, and I wouldn't associate with one who feels they have a right to play master simply because they add an impressive lil capitalized title to their name. I always preferred to listen and learn what I could of those around me and how they interacted.

But maybe that's just me. Anyway, the things that catch my attention and make me want to know more about a person...seeming intelligence (one can be fooled on occasion), a sense of humor, a sense of honest communication. And I would be lying if I didn't mention a certain amount of physical attraction. That part, however, can differ from person to person as to what I find attractive.

How not to hurt someone emotionally? I can't answer that definitively because I can't always prevent it. I tend to be a bit reserved, hold back when I'm first getting to know someone, yet still be upfront about what I am and am not looking for if things were to get to a point where that's important. Sometimes no matter what you do, there can be pain involved...the best I can hope for is to minimize that as much as possible. Any other hurt, I think, is best avoided by plenty, plenty, plenty (did I say plenty yet?) of discussion before ever even getting near a point where it could become an issue. I want to know as much as possible about the other party well ahead of time so that I'll have a much better chance of reading them...where they're at, etc., and know what to ask and when to ask it.

Mistakes...hmmm. As much as I like to profess my seeming perfection... There's too many to really make an accurate list. The only mistake I truly worry about is not learning from previous ones.

What do I get out of all this? A sense of fulfillment, of satisfaction in myself because I'm embracing who and what I am...leading to a greater connection with others, something deeper that always seemed missing in my 'nilla relationships. I don't fancy myself as a talented enough writer to truly express it all in an understandable way.

 

[Sandia]

BBD

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it.

Do you mind if I ask what v/t stands for?

Sandia.

 

[BBD]

Re: BBD

Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it.

Do you mind if I ask what v/t stands for?

Sandia.

v/t = virtual time..******* stuff. As opposed to r/t, which is real time...another of those cyber-conventions.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

the submissive chooses the Dominant

the submissives chooses the Dominant


If I see a sub that melts My heart in their unique beauty I will watch them and enjoy every nuance about them. I may day dream about the possibilities. I may night dream with lust in My thoughts, but they will never see anything but My smile. I will not encourage them to desire Me in any way that does not come naturally just from seeing the person I am. They must create their own magic.

i have had the honor of knowing Mistress Shadowsdream since last September and am certain that i am but one of a long list of submissives who considers Her to be their unofficial mentor in their quest to realize their 24/7 destiny.

i live for Her smile and nothing warms my heart more than hearing Her say "good boy" to me when She is pleased with something i have either said or done.

while we have yet to meet in real life due to the distance we are presently from one another, i am continually amazed at the way She maintains consistency in Her typed words, and displays genuine concern and warmth while never wavering in the Dominance which She exudes with every fiber of Her being.

and i say all this with the full realization that i hardly REALLY know Her, because until i see the look in Her eyes while kneeling at Her feet, i will have experienced but a fraction of what She truly is.

::smiles......hoping he gets away with posting this, knowing full well that Mistress Shadowsdream doesn't need his validation, yet he relies upon Hers every day that he is privileged to interact with Her::

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Reactions...?

I found this on "Basic Protocols and Etiquette," on Ambrosio's BDSM website... (thanks, Cymbidia.)

Submission is a gift. The submissive chooses the Dom/me. (I'm from a school of thought that every thing the Top does should secretly be for the benefit of the submissive. I try to please my partners and reward their expectations. As Princess Krista is fond of saying "Topping is the ultimate act of submission.")

I was struck by the paragraph, particularly the last line, and was wondering if anyone had comments about it.

--Sandia.

I understand what you are referring to, Sandia, about the Dominant taking such care of the submissive in keeping him/her safe, secure and even fulfilled, that it almost seems that the Top/Dominant is submitting to the bottom/submissive!

I would like to offer an insight into a slight different aspect of that. I had the pleasure of attending a seminar given by the BDSM author Jack Rinella at Black Rose in DC last fall wherein the subject of the BDSM spectrum came up in the discussion.

The participants in the seminar were asked to name a type of Dominant and/or submissive and place them on the spectrum. I named two such persons: the Service Top and the pushy bottom, and proceeded to place the Service Top on the submissive side of the spectrum and the pushy bottom on the Dominant side!!

I explained to my confused co-participants that in my example, that Service Top receives such satisfaction by ensuring that the submissive/bottom is fulfilled, and basically ends up "doing all the work" in the relationship with a service mindset, and thus deserves to be placed on the submissive side of the ledger.

On the other hand, the pushy bottom dictates to the Top what he or she wants and will endure, and thus directs the scene from below, and deserves to be placed on the Dominant side of the ledger. That individual is easier to recognize. He or she is called one who tops from the bottom.

Of course, the purist will venture into the discussion and may be justified to claim that there is NO power exchange when one discusses topping and bottoming, because they are terms usually reserved for those who participate in BDSM for purely physical enjoyment and sensation as opposed to traditional D/s where the psychological aspect of Domination and submission IS accompanied by a serious exchange of power.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Well, I guess I'll put in my 2 cents here.

I personally son't feel there is a big difference between picking a sub in a Dom/sub relationship and picking a partner in a regular relationship. You are looking for the same things, someone you can communicate with, care about, someone you are attracted to physically, mentally and emotionally. Those things need to be there just as much, if not more, in a D/s relationship just as they do in a more vanilla relationship.

I think it basically comes down to that you pick each other. D/s is just a little more complicated, as you have to add in the entire D/s aspects of limits, for both the Dom and the sub, (trust me, Doms have limits too), the safety aspects, etc.

I hope that answers the question on some level.

I agree, mostly with the above statements. I used more care when I was looking for my 24/7 slave than I have for any other relationship I have had before. th9is is mainly because we are to be life partners AND Mistress & slave.

Now I have a part-time sub who is more a "friend with benefits". and love and romance does not enter the equation.

Ebony

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting bump?