Doms have it easy. (Or what’s a sub to do?)

[Netzach]

I think I allowed for that as well in my opening post.

I also think there are some that are so reckless they'll end up in a snuff flick. Not stupid, reckless. And impatient.

But let's launch off of that point. What has a Dom(mes) to teach one who's bought their way through everything the menu has to offer?

Ishmael

Subtlety.

And how, that's lovely you've been there done that, but you haven't done it with ME.

If they're remotely submissive it's a good opportunity to remind them that submission is defined by doing what I want, even if what I want is remarkably dull to you at the moment.

 

[Ishmael]

Subtlety.

And how, that's lovely you've been there done that, but you haven't done it with ME.

If they're remotely submissive it's a good opportunity to remind them that submission is defined by doing what I want, even if what I want is remarkably dull to you at the moment.

Ahhhhh, quite so. Doesn't work with the outcome driven though. They aren't listening, they're thinking of their next manipulation.

Ishmael

 

[Netzach]

Ahhhhh, quite so. Doesn't work with the outcome driven though. They aren't listening, they're thinking of their next manipulation.

Ishmael

Yep. Sounds like for you AND me they've self-selected out of the running by this point though, eh?

 

[Ishmael]

Yep. Sounds like for you AND me they've self-selected out of the running by this point though, eh?

Isn't that the way it goes? And isn't there a sub-point there. That being that as they are rejected by Dom(mes) that do know what they're doing they'll gravitate to those that don't know what they're doing just to get that fix?

Ishmael

 

[Netzach]

Isn't that the way it goes? And isn't there a sub-point there. That being that as they are rejected by Dom(mes) that do know what they're doing they'll gravitate to those that don't know what they're doing just to get that fix?

Ishmael

Maybe. Maybe they'll get really heavy tops though who play to the level and don't really want the control. Sometimes it's hot just to pound on a masochist. Only problem is even when I channel my "top" mindset, manipulation is still really gross. These are not the people stepping out saying "I'm a really heavy bottom and a fear junkie, please make this intense as you can for me" that would be too healthy...

 

[Ishmael]

Maybe. Maybe they'll get really heavy tops though who play to the level and don't really want the control. Sometimes it's hot just to pound on a masochist. Only problem is even when I channel my "top" mindset, manipulation is still really gross. These are not the people stepping out saying "I'm a really heavy bottom and a fear junkie, please make this intense as you can for me" that would be too healthy...

Right back to 'playing to the crowd.' The same people buy tickets to "Halloween 45." You become the movie.

True enough on the heavy tops. Throw out the rule book and take your chances there. Right back to 'snuff flick' fodder.

Ishmael

 

[Netzach]

Right back to 'playing to the crowd.' The same people buy tickets to "Halloween 45." You become the movie.

True enough on the heavy tops. Throw out the rule book and take your chances there. Right back to 'snuff flick' fodder.

Ishmael

I don't think I'd go that far. I've known some people who play on the freakish end of hard but when you talk anatomy and safety and technique they are the people who KNOW what's what.

Or I may have misread you, and you're just saying they're more likely to find rogue elements and get fucked, not fucked by "heavy tops" period.

 

[Ishmael]

I don't think I'd go that far. I've known some people who play on the freakish end of hard but when you talk anatomy and safety and technique they are the people who KNOW what's what.

Or I may have misread you, and you're just saying they're more likely to find rogue elements and get fucked, not fucked by "heavy tops" period.

And therein lies the problem with this discussion. You may have ethics and I may have ethics. But we are less than honest if we don't admit there are those out there that don't. And the perfect prey is the thrill seeker.

We're reluctant to go there because of what we do and how we do it. The serious predators of the scene are interested in nothing beyond their own excesses and those excesses include death.

I think that the thrill seekers are driven more by the phyiscal aspect than the mental. I believe that this leaves them far more open to exploitation. I suspect that this is even more so in the case of the manipulators who feel themselves to be in control. It is only my ethics that make me stop at the utterance of a 'safe word' when the sub is in total bondage. The contract looks good on paper, but it means nothing to someone that is determined to do what they want.

Ishmael

 

[Netzach]

And therein lies the problem with this discussion. You may have ethics and I may have ethics. But we are less than honest if we don't admit there are those out there that don't. And the perfect prey is the thrill seeker.

We're reluctant to go there because of what we do and how we do it. The serious predators of the scene are interested in nothing beyond their own excesses and those excesses include death.

I think that the thrill seekers are driven more by the phyiscal aspect than the mental. I believe that this leaves them far more open to exploitation. I suspect that this is even more so in the case of the manipulators who feel themselves to be in control. It is only my ethics that make me stop at the utterance of a 'safe word' when the sub is in total bondage. The contract looks good on paper, but it means nothing to someone that is determined to do what they want.

Ishmael

Oh definitely this can happen.

And psychopaths do fish in the scene for victims, as we've seen. But they also exist totally outside it, and find people into rough sex who aren't affiliated with the scene per se as doms or subs at all, people who don't really use vocabulary for a lot of what we do but just do it, and just are out there taking risks in sexuality.

 

[Ishmael]

Oh definitely this can happen.

And psychopaths do fish in the scene for victims, as we've seen. But they also exist totally outside it, and find people into rough sex who aren't affiliated with the scene per se as doms or subs at all, people who don't really use vocabulary for a lot of what we do but just do it, and just are out there taking risks in sexuality.

No argument there. In the end it makes little difference to the thrill seeker/victim.

In the public eye it makes for some damning press when it involves someone that is working within the scene. Don't you agree? I don't believe there are anymore within the scene than in the public at large. It's just the press coverage after the fact that makes makes the story.

Ishmael

 

[Netzach]

No argument there. In the end it makes little difference to the thrill seeker/victim.

In the public eye it makes for some damning press when it involves someone that is working within the scene. Don't you agree? I don't believe there are anymore within the scene than in the public at large. It's just the press coverage after the fact that makes makes the story.

Ishmael

Probably. I don't think enough is out there to really disconnect most of the scene mainstream from actual abuse, in a PR way, though people are beginning to open up some avenues of discussion.

 

[Ishmael]

Probably. I don't think enough is out there to really disconnect most of the scene mainstream from actual abuse, in a PR way, though people are beginning to open up some avenues of discussion.

I'm forced to agree in part. All of the 'stories' are out there. The press just hasn't fully connected the dots.

At this point I'd like to invite the subs to post their thoughts on the matter at hand if not outside the bounds they've been given.

I'd also be interested in Richards take on this matter. He's seen it from both sides.

Ishmael

 

[morninggirl5]

But what about the sub? Particularly the adventurous sub. Obviously he/she can shop Dom(mes) to satisfy any kink. The ‘hard limits’ become softer as the desire for the new and different take hold. It seems to me that it can (please note the use of that word. I’m not intimating that it always does.) lead to the same syndrome that effects adrenaline junkies. That the end of the line for these subs is either real damage, or real boredom. A Pavlovian search for faster, deeper, entry into sub-space. Instant gratification as it were.


Ishmael

adrenaline junkies and addictive personalities........ sounds all too familiar

more Skinner than Pavlov, i think

 

[Ishmael]

adrenaline junkies and addictive personalities........ sounds all too familiar

more Skinner than Pavlov, i think

Can't argue with that MG.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of posts from the subs on this matter.

Ishmael

 

[FungiUg]

Dom(mes), all Dom(mes), have a repertoire. Things they’ll do, things they won’t do.

That must be nice, to have a "repertoire". I find there are recurrent themes in my play, but really I am constantly learning new stuff, combining it old stuff, re-exploring interaction and so on. And there's so much to learn and experiment with, who has time to develop a "repertoire"?

That's me, failing to be one of the "all Dom(mes)" yet again.

 

[Ishmael]

That must be nice, to have a "repertoire". I find there are recurrent themes in my play, but really I am constantly learning new stuff, combining it old stuff, re-exploring interaction and so on. And there's so much to learn and experiment with, who has time to develop a "repertoire"?

That's me, failing to be one of the "all Dom(mes)" yet again.

Evolutionary, and understandable. What I was saying, and obviously not too well, is that Dom(mes) also have their 'hard limits.' Places we won't go even if the sub is not only willing, but requesting.

Ishmael

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of posts from the subs on this matter.

Ishmael

What was the question again?

 

[Ishmael]

What was the question again?

Something about Dom(mes) being easy. *chuckle*

How ya doing DR?

Ishmael

 

[morninggirl5]

I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of posts from the subs on this matter.

Ishmael

Really? I would have been shocked if the opposite had happened.

 

[Ishmael]

Really? I would have been shocked if the opposite had happened.

I promote and you emote.

I'm not shocked. Not even disappointed. Just the way it is MG.

It's the way it's always been here.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.

Ishmael

 

[A Desert Rose]

Something about Dom(mes) being easy. *chuckle*

How ya doing DR?

Ishmael

I'm good. It's nice to see you again.

I'd like to find an easy Dom. I think I will be able to use one in the very near future. I just need a bit longer to recover and then...

watch out, easy Doms, wherever you are!!!

Seriously, I have thoughts on this topic but I'm too tired right now to articulate them sensibly. I plan to come back to this sometime.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Pretty much everyone has limits, but I don't see them so much as safety orientated, but personal tastes. Doms have them too.

I also think everybody develops a repetoire, particularly Doms, because it's all about their wishes & desires, right? If you like something you do it, often. Nothing wrong with that.

There are untrustworthy fools, risk takers & predators in every walk of life. I don't feel sorry for the fools & the risk takers. It's their choice & often their preference. I do feel sorry for the oodles of desperate subs who let themselves get carried away to the point of taking risks, emotional & physical, with dangerous Doms just to say they have a Dom. We read their posts here every day. There is nothing we can do except give advice which is usually ignored.

My Master & I have recently had discussions redefining our D/s. Life has taken us to a point were we are much more free, financially & time wise, to explore. I have a few limits, medically based only, but he asked me to state what I want. I answered apparently with the few things about those limits & was told that he didn't want to know what I didn't want, but what I do. Hmmm. Difficult because what I do want is for him to use me as he sees fit & in line with his desires. Mine, I feel, have little to do with it. That's how my submission works & how I get off.

There are dangers involved for instance he could make a mistake during breath play. On a couple of occasions I have "gone" to what I call the talking place. No, it's not full of dead, welcoming relatives LOL, but rather a place full of strangers all talking at once, very interesting but probably a risky thing to do. Would I do this with someone I've only known online? Hell no, but he's my Master & my husband & we've been together for over 5 years so I feel I know & trust him.

LOL, that said, how many serial killers have had trusting wives & families? So it's calculated risk for anyone in any relationship, not just BDSM although perhaps we flirt with danger a bit more given our tastes.

 

[Noctame]

hmm....subs should be mouldable, and doms capable of moulding

 

[Ishmael]

I'm good. It's nice to see you again.

I'd like to find an easy Dom. I think I will be able to use one in the very near future. I just need a bit longer to recover and then...

watch out, easy Doms, wherever you are!!!

Seriously, I have thoughts on this topic but I'm too tired right now to articulate them sensibly. I plan to come back to this sometime.

Jump in when you find the time and energy DR.

PM me your phone # if you feel inclined.

Ishmael