Doms, issues, etc..

[Homburg]

i've had a similiar conversatio with A when he asked me what i wanted and i replied "use me"

he said "i AM using you, just how I want to use you, not how You want to be used"

I did the same thing with "w", and it got nowhere. She probably was trying to top from the bottom though...

 

[graceanne]

Laugh. Although I may be an argument for mattel - see what happens if you don't get your daughter a barbie?

Pooh. Suffice it to say that my barbies were tortured in the kinkiest way an 8 year old girl can think up.

 

[DeservingBitch]

It's somewher ebetween those. More of the former, not enough of the latter. Much like yourself, I want more of the latter. Probably time for me to take a bit Netzach's idea, sprinkle it with your choice offerings, and come up with something that will make me happy, and make her feel properly nasty.

There have been moments. I once 'paid' my gal for sex. After we were done, I tossed some pocket change at her, told her it was what the sex was worth. She positively melted. I don't get it, but she was happy, and it suited my twisted inner bastard. The infamous bed-wrecking incident occured during an "I don't care if you fucking come" moment. Sometimes I can find the proper headspace to balance the two impulses. Oddly enough, it is FAR easier to do with my gal than with play partners. Infinitely easier.

One way around it could also be to play on the prostitute theme that you have used before: 'use' her as a prostitute. In my book, this means that she gets to do what *you* want and are paying for. Which could well be lay there while you fuck the shit out of her, but which could also be her doing most of the 'work'. I'm sure there are guys who go to a sex-worker just to find a breathing-doll to fuck, but me, if I was to pay one, I would want *her* to show me the tricks she's got and do most of the work.

 

[graceanne]

One way around it could also be to play on the prostitute theme that you have used before: 'use' her as a prostitute. In my book, this means that she gets to do what *you* want and are paying for. Which could well be lay there while you fuck the shit out of her, but which could also be her doing most of the 'work'. I'm sure there are guys who go to a sex-worker just to find a breathing-doll to fuck, but me, if I was to pay one, I would want *her* to show me the tricks she's got and do most of the work.

That's clever and pretty hot.

 

[EmpressFi]

Pooh. Suffice it to say that my barbies were tortured in the kinkiest way an 8 year old girl can think up.

yeah.. my barbies always had a LOT of sex.. even when I was 8

 

[Homburg]

One way around it could also be to play on the prostitute theme that you have used before: 'use' her as a prostitute. In my book, this means that she gets to do what *you* want and are paying for. Which could well be lay there while you fuck the shit out of her, but which could also be her doing most of the 'work'. I'm sure there are guys who go to a sex-worker just to find a breathing-doll to fuck, but me, if I was to pay one, I would want *her* to show me the tricks she's got and do most of the work.

These are some good ideas. I wouldn't go for the sex worker thing around here though. *shudder* Scaaaary.

 

[graceanne]

yeah.. my barbies always had a LOT of sex.. even when I was 8

My barbies just spent a lot of time tied up.

 

[DeservingBitch]

These are some good ideas. I wouldn't go for the sex worker thing around here though. *shudder* Scaaaary.

Not sure I get your point (maybe something's getting lost in the translation): the fantasy play on the prostitute theme is scary? or do you mean that you wouldn't recommend the sex workers working in your area? or do you mean something else entirely?

 

[Homburg]

Not sure I get your point (maybe something's getting lost in the translation): the fantasy play on the prostitute theme is scary? or do you mean that you wouldn't recommend the sex workers working in your area? or do you mean something else entirely?

The local sex workers are scary. Very scary. "My dick ran off and took a bus for Spokane" scary.

 

[DeservingBitch]

The local sex workers are scary. Very scary. "My dick ran off and took a bus for Spokane" scary.

The more reasons to role-play it then!

 

[Homburg]

The more reasons to role-play it then!

Hmmm, gives me ideas...

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[Shankara20]

Well slap me and call me Susan.

ok Susan, put down that cheese and get your butt over here so I can reach you....


When I'm Topping I want to know bottoms interests, limits and restrictions, energy level at this moment and safeword. That is about it - I take it from there, work/play to keep it interesting for us both but make sure I'm full involved and engaged. When I'm done and when I stop, short of a safeword call, I know bottom will be rung out and finished. They may not have gotten exactly what they were wanting at the start, but so what? The event will have been an event.

Now, if I'm with a lover (might/might not be same person as bottom) for a lovemaking event, mutual passions and desires are taken into account for us both.

I do keep a BDSM event, in my mind, different then a lovemaking event - however aspects of each can and do mingle. If think this is confusing and difficult to grasp for you, try to imagine what it is like for me to have a mind (perverted thing that it is) like mine.


Shank

ps - please pass the cheese....

 

[Shankara20]

Oh. I want someone in my life purely to tie and dress up and photo too, but I never had any Barbies.

errr, if you want do those to me, you can call me "Barbie"

 

[Netzach]

I do keep a BDSM event, in my mind, different then a lovemaking event - however aspects of each can and do mingle. If think this is confusing and difficult to grasp for you, try to imagine what it is like for me to have a mind (perverted thing that it is) like mine.

I think this is often how my brain functions as well on this count. There's the sex I have to have sex, the sex I have as a bonding luvvvv thing, then the sex I have as a logical outcropping of an SM scene, which obviously I can do for its own sake without sex as well. And of course lots and lots of SM can also be a bonding intense connective thing too.

 

[Homburg]

ok Susan, put down that cheese and get your butt over here so I can reach you....

Cheeky monkey!

(I deserve for dropping a straight line like that, eh?)

When I'm Topping I want to know bottoms interests, limits and restrictions, energy level at this moment and safeword. That is about it - I take it from there, work/play to keep it interesting for us both but make sure I'm full involved and engaged. When I'm done and when I stop, short of a safeword call, I know bottom will be rung out and finished. They may not have gotten exactly what they were wanting at the start, but so what? The event will have been an event.

Particularly striking line. and one that truly suits my personality, style, and bloated ego. Thank you.

Now, if I'm with a lover (might/might not be same person as bottom) for a lovemaking event, mutual passions and desires are taken into account for us both.

I do keep a BDSM event, in my mind, different then a lovemaking event - however aspects of each can and do mingle. If think this is confusing and difficult to grasp for you, try to imagine what it is like for me to have a mind (perverted thing that it is) like mine.

And this is a particularly useful distinction, and one that makes perfect sense. There are times with my gal that it was solely about BDSM, as much as there are time when it is purely lovely softness. And times when it is somewhere in between. The issue, in this case, only really pops up with casual play partners. I really need to modify how I think on this. I've used the phrase "Return on Investment" when discussing casual play with a buddy of mine. I should've remember my own advice.

 

[Marquis]

Sounds like she just doesn't want to decide what's going to happen, and you're not entirely comfortable with that. I've been in this position before, it can be good or bad depending on your mood, but it sounds to me like you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

If you want to make her cum, tease her, etc. Do it. If she says "no, no, do what YOU want" you say "shut the fuck up bitch" and keep doing it. Now her guilt of accepting pleasure or feeling of being in control is eliminated and you can actually do what you want and not what she assumes you really want, deep down, under the shame and guilt she is projecting onto you.

 

[Homburg]

If you want to make her cum, tease her, etc. Do it. If she says "no, no, do what YOU want" you say "shut the fuck up bitch" and keep doing it. Now her guilt of accepting pleasure or feeling of being in control is eliminated and you can actually do what you want and not what she assumes you really want, deep down, under the shame and guilt she is projecting onto you.

The shame/guilt angle makes sense, especially in light of the idea of projection. In many ways, manipulating my subject's shame and guilt is core to the experience. It is certainly core to the idea of "use me". It isn't a matter of sensation, or style of intercourse, it is more a matter of how deeply ashamed she is to be handled in such a callous manner.

 

[mia_ow]

every woman I've played with recently, want to be "used". I have issues with that, plain and simple.

For me, sex has to be mutual,

And if I'm getting off on being used, how is that not mutual?

 

[JMohegan]

Unfortunately, it seems to be a recurring theme with the women I've been with. It is so prevalent that I've wound up deciding it is a mini-scene in itself. I put myself in a given mindset, put her in some uncomfortable position, growl "I don't fucking care if you come or not" and just hammer away. I tell myself that she wants it this way, and she is getting something from it, so it isn't reeeeally using her. But I still feel a bit bad about it. Yeah, I know, I'm a wuss.

It gets worse though. Haven't really orgnaised my thoughts well enough in that direction, but it ties into the theme of not wanting to use people. Part of it comes down to worrying about not being willing to do this, and thus feeling less than Domly. The next part is worrying what an asshole I'll turn into if I somehow stop worrying about using people. Ugh, circular and fucked up. Can't freakin win.

I've got a couple of big-picture reactions to this, the first on the subject of what it means to be "Domly", the second on the ethical issue presented here.

In the bedroom, the dominant party is the one who decides what happens and when. Capacity for, or interest in, what you've termed "drunken sailor sex" has no more to do with bedroom dominance than wax play or canes.

I know I'm not saying anything you haven't heard or thought of before, but I think it bears repeating in these moments of self-doubt. You are "less than Domly" when you set aside your own preferences, will, or needs in deference to someone else's preconceived notion of what your behavior should be. There are some who ID as Doms who seem, to me, to be de facto "slaves" to a script.

As for the general ethical issue involved in using people for your own pleasure, my own bouts of guilt on this subject have always been resolved with the following realization.

I am an infinitely better lover when permitted to go where the mood strikes me, and much *less* of an asshole as partner when I get my own way. Combine these truths with firm adherence to the post-feminist notion of equal responsibility and capacity for decision-making/consent on the part of the female, and over time ethical angst fades away.

 

[Homburg]

I know I'm not saying anything you haven't heard or thought of before, but I think it bears repeating in these moments of self-doubt. You are "less than Domly" when you set aside your own preferences, will, or needs in deference to someone else's preconceived notion of what your behavior should be. There are some who ID as Doms who seem, to me, to be de facto "slaves" to a script.

It is essentially self-doubt, and you are correct, I dislike the idea of adhering to someone else's idea of what I should be doing. The flip side of that is my own enjoyment of fantasy fulfillment, but, as I said in another thread, we balance many contradictions in this particular game, so what is one more?

As for the general ethical issue involved in using people for your own pleasure, my own bouts of guilt on this subject have always been resolved with the following realization.

I am an infinitely better lover when permitted to go where the mood strikes me, and much *less* of an asshole as partner when I get my own way. Combine these truths with firm adherence to the post-feminist notion of equal responsibility and capacity for decision-making/consent on the part of the female, and over time ethical angst fades away.

Thank you, well said and spot on for me.

In general, it is an internal conflict only. I was discussing it with my gal this morning, and realised that a major reason as to why the "use me" concept is so very much more comfortable with her is, simply put, she's mine, and she will be available tomorrow. It doesn't matter how she gets used, as I will be able to do it all over differently again later that day, the next day, etc. So I can, and do, use her however I wish sans guilt, because I know that I will leave her shuddering and out of her mind with pleasure the next go-around.

The guilt that arises with callow use of casual play partners is a different animal, and requires a whole new set of questions and introspection.

 

[rosco rathbone]

"You are "less than Domly" when you set aside your own preferences, will, or needs in deference to someone else's preconceived notion of what your behavior should be."

outstanding.

 

[FurryFury]

Sounds like she just doesn't want to decide what's going to happen, and you're not entirely comfortable with that. I've been in this position before, it can be good or bad depending on your mood, but it sounds to me like you might be misinterpreting it a bit.

If you want to make her cum, tease her, etc. Do it. If she says "no, no, do what YOU want" you say "shut the fuck up bitch" and keep doing it. Now her guilt of accepting pleasure or feeling of being in control is eliminated and you can actually do what you want and not what she assumes you really want, deep down, under the shame and guilt she is projecting onto you.

Great post M!

 

[JMohegan]

outstanding.

Thanks.

 

[Netzach]

Great post M!

"shhh" is more my guy's style, but this IS the secret, yes. Works remarkably well.