Eat Shit!

[Netzach]

Yes, there is, but then there is also a point in why I am boringly always repeating myself about thinking before leaping when the next keen slave/sub comes along and declares they want to be 'no limits' TPE and think it will be cool. Some on both sides of the whip are happy to be TPE and colour only between the lines they know exist, others like F expect to colour outside the lines if they so wish otherwise why enter into a TPE relationship? While VD's PYL may never intend to make her carry through with his suggested possibility, it does sound a lot to me like he wants to believe she would at least give it her best shot, and bring home the fact that she gave up the right to limits. Makes sense to me, just as it makes sense to me that if a person says they are in a D/s or any related type relationship I don't expect to find they are really vanilla but think it sounds cool to say they are D/s.

I also think that people have this unrealistic view of saying that if you are TPE you have to obey anything and everything even if you are ordered to pull stars out of the sky and lock them in the playroom...I also think a lot of this view comes from porn and fantasy as opposed to real life. While obeying 100% of the time is the intention, for those things which really present an impossible challenge on some level the PYL can relate to/appreciate/understand, the important point is in seeing their pyl accept the challenge instead of immediately refusing whenever it goes more than a little outside the expected comfort zone, and at least give it a valid attempt or agree to until excused. It comes back a little to the journey being as important as the destination point, and sometimes more so. We have had moments like this, and we have worked through it...I used to think it was unusual and I had failed majorly until I became involved with people who share the same type of relationship expectations and consequently the same struggles.

Catalina

I have to agree that I think the failure thing is something more people ought to reconsider. I think that if there aren't any failures at all then something isn't really working on my part. The bar is not high enough. Maybe not outright failures but certainly a good dose of "huh, that wasn't what I expected to happen at all."

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have to agree that I think the failure thing is something more people ought to reconsider. I think that if there aren't any failures at all then something isn't really working on my part. The bar is not high enough. Maybe not outright failures but certainly a good dose of "huh, that wasn't what I expected to happen at all."

It does keep things interesting and challenging instead of stagnating.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

I have to agree that I think the failure thing is something more people ought to reconsider. I think that if there aren't any failures at all then something isn't really working on my part. The bar is not high enough. Maybe not outright failures but certainly a good dose of "huh, that wasn't what I expected to happen at all."

Success is entirely overrated.

Struggle is where it's at.

 

[twysted73]

Thoughts?

In my connection to different kinds and types of people week to week, occasionally I meet a few who effect me.
Not necessarily bad or good.
I'm not to judge them as people.
Just what and how they effect me in regards to what I do and don't like/prefer.

This is how I came across a certain site.
I was directed to go to it, I am sure, to get a desired effect of repulsion.

Not going to say either way unless you really want my opinion. (if so, ask)

However...if your Dominant thinks feces and a woman's mouth might be hot,
test his mettle.
Send him looking for 2girls1cup.

If he still thinks it's what he wants....

Well....I don't know what to say.

 

[Desdemona]

It may seem boring to repeat it, but

Yes, there is, but then there is also a point in why I am boringly always repeating myself about thinking before leaping when the next keen slave/sub comes along and declares they want to be 'no limits' TPE and think it will be cool. Some on both sides of the whip are happy to be TPE and colour only between the lines they know exist, others like F expect to colour outside the lines if they so wish otherwise why enter into a TPE relationship?

Catalina

There's a HUGE difference between fantasy, reading about something and actually experiencing it or making it reality in your life. Keep telling future subs/slaves to look before they leap. Real life and the experience of getting limits stretched doesn't generally go the way it's described in porn stories. It can be painful, dirty, digusting, frustrating and emotionally wrenching. If it goes badly, the wounds can be far more serious and long lasting than the little purple/red welts some people crave. This is the deep end of the submission pool and it's not the right place for everybody to swim.

Personally, I'll stay in the shallower water where I know I won't drown. I like my limits. They might change over time, but they're mine and I'm comfy with them right now. I'm really, truly glad I don't have to stretch in terms of scat.

 

[Desdemona]

It differs for some of us.

Success is entirely overrated.

Struggle is where it's at.

I need to succeed. I hate the struggle.

 

[Netzach]

I think that sounded like I advocate setting slaves up to fail. No. I think that's super-shitty to do to a service oriented person. You set them up to succeed and if that doesn't happen that's OK, it's more information, it's a place to go.

 

[Desdemona]

Cool.

I think that sounded like I advocate setting slaves up to fail. No. I think that's super-shitty to do to a service oriented person. You set them up to succeed and if that doesn't happen that's OK, it's more information, it's a place to go.

This sounds more like what I've seen of your posts. It's how it works in our relationship.

 

[Recidiva]

I need to succeed. I hate the struggle.

To me success is a process involving struggle with issues along the way. At least that's my experience.

I didn't even learn how to tie my shoes without failing a few times, struggling with coordination and fine motor skills, and frustration.

Everything worth doing is worth doing badly at first.

I'm not at all saying you should be okay with failure or being set up to fail. Although learning to fail with grace and an eye toward improving the next effort is a valuable learning tool. If you dissolve into a humiliated heap at every failure, learning progresses more slowly. You become afraid of the learning process itself. It's counter productive. My son's autistic. When I tried to teach him to read...trembling and fear and horror. Dude, it's the alphabet. It doesn't bite. He was humiliated by not already being a master at something he never bothered to learn. Having it demonstrated that he was ignorant of something of value made him want to run away. It was a blow to his ego. Because he was great and self-taught at numbers. But as he gained confidence in mastering a few words, he could sit still and listen without wanting to flee. Started to grasp how words and language have value, are worth mastering. Now he can do his homework without tears and humiliation.

We might just be suffering here from a lack of clarity on how I'm using "struggle" in context.

It's a struggle to lose weight, to break an addiction, to master a craft, to follow a law. These are worthwhile struggles. Positive struggles, where you fight each day to counteract entropy and get better at what you do. Discovery and fine tuning. Willingness to admit you're not inherently perfect, there's more to learn, more to do each day.

Destructive struggles, I think are wastes of time and that's not what I'm trying to illustrate.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

There's a HUGE difference between fantasy, reading about something and actually experiencing it or making it reality in your life. Keep telling future subs/slaves to look before they leap. Real life and the experience of getting limits stretched doesn't generally go the way it's described in porn stories. It can be painful, dirty, digusting, frustrating and emotionally wrenching. If it goes badly, the wounds can be far more serious and long lasting than the little purple/red welts some people crave. This is the deep end of the submission pool and it's not the right place for everybody to swim.

Personally, I'll stay in the shallower water where I know I won't drown. I like my limits. They might change over time, but they're mine and I'm comfy with them right now. I'm really, truly glad I don't have to stretch in terms of scat.

I am so with you on this one! Thank you for saying it much better than I tried to earlier before I just closed out my window.

 

[rida]

I hate circular arguments with a purple passion. I'm not in a TPE but I've learned a sure fire method to end such an argument. (And may I say, I see this one as particularly dangerous if it continues? Cause what is Mr. Dom going to do to prove his point?)

Here is my no fail method to make the argument cease. Just sincerely say, "Yes, Dear, you are absolutely right."

LOL!

Amazing how simple things work so well

 

[rida]

Regarding the circular discussion, I think that Netzach and 00Syd have covered it pretty well.

I would like to talk about another issue that I think is involved in the conversation reported in the OP:

VD wanted to be truthfully to her Master in regard of scat and as such she could not say that she would do it.
Her Master rose the objection that as a TPE slave, her reply should have been "I'll do everything you ask".

My interpretation is that:
VD meant that if he asked to perform such a task, she would not be able to accomplish it and as such she would fail. Her focus is on the accomplishment of the task, on the success.
Her Master is in not focused on the task and even less on the successful completion of it. He is focused instead on the willingness to perform it.

The way I see it, is a conversation on two different level and on two different things.

I can understand how it might make you feel uneasy, VelvetDarkness. Perhaps instead of focusing on whether you could actually eat shit, you should focus on whether you are willing to try to do whatever your Master asks you to, as that is your position and agreed role.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Wow. So many lovely, insightful posts. I really do love you guys.

To clarify, Master and I never actually argued over this. It's never been our style and these days I simply cannot flat out argue with him over anything. It is a dereliction of my respect for him, my agreed place as his slave and my character as a service oriented TPE partner.

We talked and when it became clear that there was going to be no neat and tidy closure on this conversation, we put it aside. There will be more discussion in the near future, which is the main reason I wanted to pick the BDSM hive mind here before I tried again to articulate my feelings without contradicting Master's.

*wanders back through thread with basket, gathering pearls of wisdom*

 

[VelvetDarkness]

My first thought was this was one of the situations I suggested could happen in TPE in another thread we both participated in where I mentioned (to you I think) that to give up all limits can be brought to a point whereby a PYL may choose to include activities you didn't expect or felt were not acceptable...it is never safe to assume that because there were initially limits and things you believed would never come into consideration that it is how things will stay.

I knew when I gave myself to Master that he would push my boundaries for me and make use of me in ways that I could get no pleasure from outside of knowing I was serving him. He has extended the limits I had in place before we moved into TPE by quite a significant margin and I have every confidence that we're a long way from reaching the full extent of our repertoire as a M/s couple.

I think that Rida put it best (stunning AV btw, very Geisha) when she said that we weren't even on the same page with this. I knew we were approaching the conversation from different perspectives but on many levels, we weren't actually discussing the same things at all.

As to how to handle it, everyone differs and it is up to them to decide what is appropriate and what TPE means to them. F didn't accept my offer of TPE straight away as he wanted me to think long and hard and also with the knowledge that to remove limits meant he could introduce anything he wished at any time and I was not to lightly assume I knew what he would ask of me based on behaviour to that point. That was what I agreed to and understood. That being said, there are moments when things are introduced that I cannot just fall to my knees and obey, and something which has raised eyebrows here and gotten me read the 'you must obey' lecture from fellow posters. As you have found out, some things are not that easily accepted and to believe that the desire to obey wins out easily over all other emotions and abilities is hogwash and from the mouths of those who either have never faced it, are lost in fantasy, or have a PYL that just will not set them those challenges.

The bolded part really stands out with me. Our situation is different from D/s couples in that if Master did decide he wanted us to get into scat, I would have no option to refuse him. I know there are those who say that TPE is a state of mind and I can always refuse because M/s slavery isn't exactly legally defensible. Regardless of that, I take my contractually agreed place as his property very seriously. It is my day to day reality and I would never cry foul and claim I was being mistreated and abused because I didn't like how he was exercising the rights that I handed to him freely.

If he was serious about scat I would do my best to serve him and he knows that. Probably I would start out like LadyC's pyl, a little at a time. Master is quite good at letting me negotiate gradual introductions to new things. At the same time, he has absolutely no obligation to do so beyond a basic concern for my welfare. This is another thing that gives me butterflies. Whenever I've asked to move gradually into a new form of service, a large part of me has expected him to tell me to quit whining and do as I'm told without complaint. I'm sure it'll happen at some point.

So how do we handle it? We work on it. A lot of it is about me programming my head over time, trying and trying again, suggesting steps which might help me achieve what he wishes, and perseverance no matter how long it takes, or how difficult. Sometimes I acknowledge defeat and ask him to force me...sometimes he will use force, sometimes he will tell me he is pleased enough that I tried so hard and that it was the primary purpose of the whole exercise, not the successful outcome as was initially imagined by me. While I hate it at times, I would hate it even more if he presented me only with things he felt I could achieve simply because I would feel he was playing to my abilities at the expense of his needs/wants. It could very well be your Master is testing you to see what you do, it could be that he wants to make it a reality, it could be that he doesn't but will in the future, it could be that your resistance will make him even more interested in it than he would normally be.

Catalina

Another really good point. I have conflict here because I would not like to 'fail' at serving him. I know that at this moment in time I would be physically and psychologically incapable of eating his shit. To pretend otherwise feels dishonest to me. If Master is focused on my willingness, rather than the task, then I know that my desire to serve and obey is there. I will have to trust him to be sensible about the limits he sets for he and hope that scat remains one of them.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Send him looking for 2girls1cup.

Good grief Twysted, you could have given me a little more warning. I'm scarred for life now.

Will definitely show it to Master though. There may yet be a tiny sadist dwelling in the dark recesses of my warped little mind.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You know you could never eat shit, you know he might some day order you to but you just couldn't. Well, you also trust him to never make you eat shit and you believe that he has no interest whatsoever in making you do so.

So then this is a non-issue right?

I am in no way a slave, and have never been in a TPE relationship, but the way I see it, you have the lovely knowledge of knowing that you are totally his and that he could make you do anything (except killing anyone, etc.) but the only reason why you ever went into this TPE relationship is because you trust him completely, and that includes trusting him to not make you do anything like eat shit. So you know he won't, but you still know that he could, which is nice. So yeah, this isn't even an argument so much as a circular "you could but you won't but you could" discussion that has no tidy resolution and just seems like a pain in the ass to think about. I don't mean to belittle your feelings on this issue at all, thats just my (admittedly uninformed) opinion of it.

Yeah. On a basic level, this should and probably will be how I rationalise and resolve things. There will always be that little voice in my head though, muttering 'but what if he really makes you do this one day?' because in our agreed dynamic, he can. I never presume to know what he will and will not ask of me. Master loves springing new things on me without warning or preamble. It's a large part of how he tests my obedience, trust and endurance. I wouldn't have it any other way but regardless of how convinced I am today, this morning, that he has no interest in scat, I can never assume that it won't happen in the future.

Like I said before, scat is just a random hypothetical here. This could be a discussion over any task I'd have serious trouble performing. This kind of task would utterly disgust me. It would damage me fundamentally as a person and fall well within what would be considered abusive in a relationship that wasn't TPE.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I also think that people have this unrealistic view of saying that if you are TPE you have to obey anything and everything even if you are ordered to pull stars out of the sky and lock them in the playroom...I also think a lot of this view comes from porn and fantasy as opposed to real life. While obeying 100% of the time is the intention, for those things which really present an impossible challenge on some level the PYL can relate to/appreciate/understand, the important point is in seeing their pyl accept the challenge instead of immediately refusing whenever it goes more than a little outside the expected comfort zone, and at least give it a valid attempt or agree to until excused. It comes back a little to the journey being as important as the destination point, and sometimes more so. We have had moments like this, and we have worked through it...I used to think it was unusual and I had failed majorly until I became involved with people who share the same type of relationship expectations and consequently the same struggles.

Catalina

Another really insightful post Cat.

See, this is the flipside of the coin. While I can say that I couldn't eat shit, it would disgust me too much, my body would void it and I would fail. I also know that if Master seriously commanded me to do it I simply couldn't fold my arms across my chest and flat refuse him. That's where I start to doubt myself. I may feel I can trust him not to test my resolve but it also scares me when I think about how far I would truly push myself in service to him. Now that these things are no longer my decision I have to have a lot of faith in Master when it comes to knowing what tasks would would be damaging to me psychologically. This is currently one of them but the decision as to whether it is too damaging for me to even attempt rests with Master, not with me. This is where I start to wonder just how much faith I truly have, both in him and in myself.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I have to agree that I think the failure thing is something more people ought to reconsider. I think that if there aren't any failures at all then something isn't really working on my part. The bar is not high enough. Maybe not outright failures but certainly a good dose of "huh, that wasn't what I expected to happen at all."

This is very true. I think I am too focused on success here. So far I haven't really 'failed' in anything and the stubborn sammy in me always want to doggedly keep going until I accomplish whatever he has asked of me. The tasks he sets me aren't always about the tasks and I do often forget that.

 

[catalina_francisco]

While I can say that I couldn't eat shit, it would disgust me too much, my body would void it and I would fail.

Hmm, see there is another way of looking at what you have said here. Also where you said physically and psychologically you could not do it, I agree psychologically you may not be able to handle it well, but physically it is possible just not welcomed. In the above statement you say your body would void it which I took to mean you would throw up after doing it, so in essence you would have eaten shit, you just might not have managed to keep it within. In that instance failure is not complete, and may not be failure at all if his desire is just to see/have you do it, not necessarily digest it without a worry. Once again it would come back to what the focus of the order is, not the outcome. Make sense?

Catalina

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hmm, see there is another way of looking at what you have said here. Also where you said physically and psychologically you could not do it, I agree psychologically you may not be able to handle it well, but physically it is possible just not welcomed. In the above statement you say your body would void it which I took to mean you would throw up after doing it, so in essence you would have eaten shit, you just might not have managed to keep it within. In that instance failure is not complete, and may not be failure at all if his desire is just to see/have you do it, not necessarily digest it without a worry. Once again it would come back to what the focus of the order is, not the outcome. Make sense?

Catalina

Oh yes, that makes perfect sense and I am aware that I probably wouldn't have to be completely successful at ingesting faeces i he ever demanded it of me. These things do have a gradient. Ooh, here I go again, gradually normalising something that was totally and completely taboo only yesterday. I do often wonder where things like this will end with us. The destination is largely unimportant, but it'll be Master who decides where it is and when (if ever) we get there.

 

[00Syd]

Yeah. On a basic level, this should and probably will be how I rationalise and resolve things. There will always be that little voice in my head though, muttering 'but what if he really makes you do this one day?' because in our agreed dynamic, he can. I never presume to know what he will and will not ask of me. Master loves springing new things on me without warning or preamble. It's a large part of how he tests my obedience, trust and endurance. I wouldn't have it any other way but regardless of how convinced I am today, this morning, that he has no interest in scat, I can never assume that it won't happen in the future.

Like I said before, scat is just a random hypothetical here. This could be a discussion over any task I'd have serious trouble performing. This kind of task would utterly disgust me. It would damage me fundamentally as a person and fall well within what would be considered abusive in a relationship that wasn't TPE.

That little voice that says "but what if..." is the voice that deliciously reminds you that he could.

But then you trust him. You trust him to never set you the kind of task that would "damage you fundamentally as a person and fall well within what would be considered abusive" in a non TPE relationship. I doubt that he's stupid, and so knows that if he ever did something like that it would break that trust and break something in the relationship. Maybe you.

So yes, I'm sure he loves reminding you about all the possibilities, but I'm also sure that you can rest assured in that he would never do anything truly harmful (or make you eat shit).

Isn't this just part of the whole dynamic, anyway? Some fundamental thing?

 

[Etoile]

This just sounds like a mindfuck to me, not an actual attempt to make you question your slavery. You would do anything for him, and he would never make you do that. He is just using "but I might" as a mindfuck, not actually expecting you to be willing to do it. Just my perspective.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Oh yes, that makes perfect sense and I am aware that I probably wouldn't have to be completely successful at ingesting faeces i he ever demanded it of me. These things do have a gradient. Ooh, here I go again, gradually normalising something that was totally and completely taboo only yesterday. I do often wonder where things like this will end with us. The destination is largely unimportant, but it'll be Master who decides where it is and when (if ever) we get there.

This does tend to happen, and as times moves on it seems to happen quicker most times. Something else worth noting is the idea of trust and abuse. Not sure how to put it into easily understood words, but in TPE I find that what once would have been considered abusive, and sometimes can still be in the moment and shortly afterward, can take a shift to a place where it is no longer abuse as you realise that thinking of it as abuse is thinking in mainstream terms we have been conditioned and raised to think in, not TPE. Sometimes you realise that even the things you did not enjoy, you actually enjoyed for just that reason...can it still be thought of as abusive then?

As for trusting a PYL in TPE to not take you beyond what you are capable of, I also think it is tricky area in terms of applying general ideas of trust. For us, part of why he made me think so hard about it before offering it a second time was because to give up limits and become TPE meant that I no longer had the right to evaluate anything that was ordered in terms of whether it was fair, acceptable, within what I expected, and more importantly then link that back to trust. It sounds difficult, and at times it is, but that is in essence what giving up limits is about, totally accepting that the PYL no longer has to conform to what is seen by others as OK.

For us that does not mean murder or any other act which harms another as consent is recognised as the right of others, but it does mean it is not appreciated to accuse him of not being fair, of harming me in ways I do not see as appropriate, or taking back trust. I am not always successful at keeping it in mind, but acknowledge that is my issue, not his...and before people start declaring him an ogre, he does sometimes take it into account and work with me to get me past it, but he doesn't have to. It also comes down to him not being perfect. He may underestimate the effect of something he chooses to do or demand...it happens, no-one is infallible.

It may also be that he makes an informed choice to continue and risk damage. I know for many that is a no-no, but then once again, if you are giving up all control/limits, there is no magic rule book saying he cannot decide that damaging me is acceptable to him. Does it mean I want it, not particularly, but then I have a good imagination and so took all these things into account and anticipated some he may probably never decide to pull, though he has mentioned under what conditions he would employ some of them, and I do not have any reason to doubt he would keep his word on that.

Catalina

 

[Recidiva]

This does tend to happen, and as times moves on it seems to happen quicker most times. Something else worth noting is the idea of trust and abuse. Not sure how to put it into easily understood words, but in TPE I find that what once would have been considered abusive, and sometimes can still be in the moment and shortly afterward, can take a shift to a place where it is no longer abuse as you realise that thinking of it as abuse is thinking in mainstream terms we have been conditioned and raised to think in, not TPE. Sometimes you realise that even the things you did not enjoy, you actually enjoyed for just that reason...can it still be thought of as abusive then?

As for trusting a PYL in TPE to not take you beyond what you are capable of, I also think it is tricky area in terms of applying general ideas of trust. For us, part of why he made me think so hard about it before offering it a second time was because to give up limits and become TPE meant that I no longer had the right to evaluate anything that was ordered in terms of whether it was fair, acceptable, within what I expected, and more importantly then link that back to trust. It sounds difficult, and at times it is, but that is in essence what giving up limits is about, totally accepting that the PYL no longer has to conform to what is seen by others as OK.

For us that does not mean murder or any other act which harms another as consent is recognised as the right of others, but it does mean it is not appreciated to accuse him of not being fair, of harming me in ways I do not see as appropriate, or taking back trust. I am not always successful at keeping it in mind, but acknowledge that is my issue, not his...and before people start declaring him an ogre, he does sometimes take it into account and work with me to get me past it, but he doesn't have to. It also comes down to him not being perfect. He may underestimate the effect of something he chooses to do or demand...it happens, no-one is infallible.

It may also be that he makes an informed choice to continue and risk damage. I know for many that is a no-no, but then once again, if you are giving up all control/limits, there is no magic rule book saying he cannot decide that damaging me is acceptable to him. Does it mean I want it, not particularly, but then I have a good imagination and so took all these things into account and anticipated some he may probably never decide to pull, though he has mentioned under what conditions he would employ some of them, and I do not have any reason to doubt he would keep his word on that.

Catalina

Learning certain lessons, gaining certain skills, growing as an individual, involves admitting I am wrong or misinformed about something. When I want to learn math, I can open a book. When I want to learn more abstract things, trust, patience, faith, strength, wisdom...there's no book. There are steps I take along the path to trust, patience, faith, strength and wisdom that may not be understood or even understandable at the outset.

Explaining to someone what they are going to learn isn't always helpful. Wanting someone to learn patience when they think that's the lesson, they can fake patience and pretend to learn. Telling someone they are going to learn manual labor or loneliness or discomfort, they can focus on that, but they have the opportunity to learn patience on their own or just acquire that ability through time and experience. I think some things are only gained through doing. Not through thinking about it. In fact, the thinking is often the part you have to unlearn in order to get to some truths you can touch and feel and not just have as an idea. If life gives me lemons, I'm going to try to perfect the recipe for lemonade in the meantime. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy on my part, because even someone who locks me in a dungeon and tortures me is probably just going to give me an opportunity to study the mindset of those who believe in torture, and also increase my pain tolerance. I have faith I will find a positive application from every negative experience given to me. I used to be a lot more reckless about the risk I placed myself in, gambling my life on this bet over and over. I'm a bit more conservative now, but I know the mechanics are solid.

There are some awful, horrendous, difficult and painful times in my past that I wouldn't do without, because to me, these moments provided me with a burning gift. If I could hold my hands steady enough to unwrap it, what's inside is worth the scars. I have faith in this process a lot more now than I used to. I'm not necessarily saying that every human perfectly wraps a burning gift and presents it with wisdom. But life does. Being fascinated by something to me means there's something in there I don't understand yet, but that I need to learn. I throw myself into every fascination or the fascination of those I love to learn more about it. Somewhere along the line of every major life lesson, I have to just give up what I think and just try it in the faith that it will bear fruit. I just can't decide ahead of time what that fruit will be. I have to be open to what will happen and not try to force it.

 

[Netzach]

I also think that risk is something that's more and less attractive to certain people, and as a couple, if you are interested in slavery, this really should be a value you view the same way if you're going to do TPE or there are going to be some serious problems. Maybe not totally identically, but at least somewhere in the same neighborhood.

I don't think a risk-averse slave and a risk junkie owner are a good idea, JMO. Or the opposite.