Endurance vs. pleasure

[ownedsubgal]

hmmm, I get what you are saying ownedsubgal, as much as I can, but I personally could never even begin to fully grasp the slave mentality. I could never imaigne doing something not because it was pleasureable, but because i had no choice. Even when i do do somethign I don't exactly adore because my partner likes it a lot, I am still getting somethign out of it...and pain does make me all wet and tingly...

well i "get something" from it too hurtme...i get the peace of mind and joy of heart of having pleased my Master, or whoever else it is i am serving at that moment. and that's something that as a submissive, i need in order to be content.

 

[erotic4play]

Re:

I guess the question is, when does pain become pleasure? I think it is up to the individual. It is a frame of mind. If you percive the pain as pain then it will be, but if yo prceive the pain as pleasure you will gain the pleasure. Erotic pain is pleasure. os so it is intended. As my submissive has said to me, boundaries change as relationships depens. Do you endure the pain because he wants you to or do you enjoy it because it pleases him, or do you enyoy it?

 

[s'lara]

i think it should be clear that osg is not representative of all slaves. she is a slave that is different than say ... catalina. i think the two women are very different and don't necessarily believe both to be representative of only two types of slaves in this BDSM culture.

Nice thing about diversity ... you get to see all shades of the spectrum.

On endurance vs. pleasure, there is satisfaction to be had on all levels. If one does not obtain satisfaction from pain itself, there is satisfaction in having served a Dominant by enduring an unpleasurable act and making sure that the Dominant's pleasure is paramount. That doesn't mean the end result has to equate to pleasure for the submissive. Our needs don't come first and it is our serving the Dominant in this capacity that ensures our needs are met ... the need to serve another. To me, that was bottom line important.

lara

 

[hurtme]

I wasn't being critical of her (osg), i was just saying, it is not a mindset that I personally hold, and it is not something I could probably ever fully understand, so it makes it a bit more difficult for me to relate to her...no big deal, I do enjoy all the diversity here.

 

[s'lara]

hurtme, please don't misinterpret my post ... my style is dry and without lots of emoticons so it does come across a bit snappy.

i don't think you were critical, just honest, but i thought it should be clear that osg isn't the template of all slaves. she happens to be who she is and it is a departure from what some are accustomed to ...even for slaves. i could never be osg, just as she could never be me. i think there are times when others read her posts and think it represents the mentality of all slaves and i am sure that isn't the case. she is also very clear to say she is a different type of slave/masochist and that's all cool with me. i do enjoy seeing different types of submissives put out their thoughts and that includes your postings hurtme. Knowing your own limits is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that at all.

lara

 

[cellis]

hmmm, I kind of like enduring pain. My current dom really enjoys biting me...and I don't mean pansy bites, I mean the kind that leave enormus bruises and tingle for days. He has broken skin, but only on accident, in the heat of the moment, cause I was writhing around. the thing is, he likes to find a part of my body I might not find erotic, and then bite HARD and hold on, 30 seconds, a minute...jus tot see what my reaction will be. Some of the places he does it, I like a lot, some others (like the back of my shoulder, right above the bottom of my shoulder blade, they werent so much FUN for me, as they were for him, for me, it was a lesson of endurance, cause it hurt...but I know he enjoys it, and rather than giving out my safeword, I like to see how long I can endure it, and if I make it until he lets go (even if i am begging by that time) I am proud of myself. Plus he always rewards me with nice sweet kisses afterwords...

Himself does this to me.... I can feel myself getting wet at the thought of His teeth on me... Does it hurt... yes it does very much so... but there is something that happens when I allow myself to sink into to pain... I transcend... I move beyond... I don't know if this makes much sense to others... He will grab my hair, pull my head back and expose my throat... and then suddenly He will bite...

For me... I am not a pain slut... I require a certain amount and have found that as He lays the layers down I am able to move beyond myself and take more and more... He has told me that He has to be careful of me...

I never see what we do as endurance... for me it is about transcendence in the most spiritual of manners.

 

[hurtme]

ok, long as we all understand each other....lol


I understand completely cellis, after a lovely incident where I almost lost a body part to his teeth because I was in the zone, he has told me that he has to be careful...he had pulled my body up to his and my breasts up to his mouth and was biting my nipple while we were having sex, and suddenly stopped...I wasn't really paying attention, but afterwards he said he had stopped when he tasted blood...let me tell you, it was pretty painful after the fact, not to mention it looked pretty bad, I actually thought I might need stitches or something...but during, i didn't even notice...the funniest part of the whole thing is, its not the first time something like that has happened, and usually he will stop because he is afraid of either breaking something or causing permanent damage...but I have always thought I was a complete wuss to pain, that almost everyone has higher pain tolerance than I do, in fact, it is a sore spot with me (no pun intended) guess I am wrong...

 

[catalina_francisco]

i think it should be clear that osg is not representative of all slaves. she is a slave that is different than say ... catalina. i think the two women are very different and don't necessarily believe both to be representative of only two types of slaves in this BDSM culture.

Nice thing about diversity ... you get to see all shades of the spectrum.

lara

Don't know if osg and myself are all that different in most ways. We certainly share the same view in that we submitted meaning our limits do not exist, we are totally owned and as such property to be done with what our Dominant decides he desires, or is best for us. I would say she is far more advanced on accepting that, or maybe submitting to that than I am, but the mindset remains much the same, as does the intention to submit to whatever task we are given. I guess the biggest difference is as osg explains, she has a submissiveness which is her personality in all places with all people, whereas mine is submissiveness only to Master and no-one else can draw me from that, and watch out to anyone who mistakenly thinks they can push the point. But yes, I do not think we are representative of áll slaves, and admit as many have suggested, we are on the extreme end.

As to the endurance vs pleasure.....I think for me I sometimes endure, but more often than not I do it out of my own pleasure. That pleasure can have different origins though. I am a pain slut so crave the pain he can give me often, though he does not always give the type pain I am craving. I sometimes want more than he is prepared to give, just as he sometimes expects me to accept more than I may want to at that particular mooment. I also can derive pleasure from the pain simply because I know I am serving his need, irrespective of mine. Is often the same principle as I feel with humiliation etc., the more I hate it, the more I derive pleasure from it....which then makes it difficult to say I either endure or do so out of pleasure as the two are so closely entwined they become one.

Catalina

 

[randy1]

Interesting topic..

As I was reading through, I'm reminded of several psychological concepts. Does one 'endure' being put under hypnosis in order to achieve that mental state? Does one 'endure' entering a meditative state? Often the beginnings of some mental process has an element that isn't as pleasurable that one waits through to achieve a goal. Same thing here. If all BDSM involved endurance rather than pleasure, it would be a sport rather than pastime! Since there's the goal of achieving 'subspace' or some other variety of pleasure, endurance I believe is simply part of the experience.

Additionally, as Dr. Phil mentioned on a show recently, researchers found folks could endure 5 times the level of pain if they knew there was an 'out'. A button that would immediately release it. Stubbing a toe and the like weren't expected--therefore extremely painful. Also, there body couldn't prepare with endorphins as it would if it knew pain was coming (via conditioning).

Then there's the aspect of sensation. Different nerve endings provide different sensations (heat, pressure, etc.) Overwhelming the mind with a sensation (or lots of varying ones) can break it free from the conscious mode.

Lastly, part of this process is to change the mental perspective. Just like an individual is taught that certain smells are good/bad, enduring sensations at one moment allows them to be pleasurable in another, or, as has already been expressed, pleasure is derived from knowing someone else appreciates your endurance, etc.

Have fun,

randy

 

[X6QvQ9X]

Interesting topic..

Does one 'endure' being put under hypnosis in order to achieve that mental state?

Does one 'endure' entering a meditative state?

If all BDSM involved endurance rather than pleasure, it would be a sport rather than pastime!

Lastly, part of this process is to change the mental perspective.

Have fun,
randy

As a rigid non-believer in hypnosis I find the the discussion of a comparison to sub-space here very interesting as well. Though some of the same techniques are used, for me, sub-space is going within oneself mentally in reflection rather than from performance.

In other words, it is the sub who reaches for it, a sub whom chooses to percieve the thoughts that pass within an act. A sub who can say alone that there was a lesson learned and what. A dominant may try, but it is the sub who creates these thoughts regardless of the words heard consciously.

Rituals are an important part as well, to me, the creativity used by a dominant to enact some feeling is a sign of his true faith and study of the way. A master, to me, one who believes it a spiritual choice as opposed to a pastime!

Both Endurance & Pleasure are sacred for almost everyone, regardless of the view from your side of the fence on issssues.

 

[cellis]

After some more thought on this subject, I really believe that it is the submissives ability to disassociate or move into another place inside themselves that allows them to transcend.

 

[Kajira Callista]

subspace= supernormal perceptual state or siddhis. A form of self hypnosis. http://calmness.com/siddhis.htm As for endure...if you dont like it you dont have to do it, what is there you are enduring?

 

[ownedsubgal]

subspace= supernormal perceptual state or siddhis. A form of self hypnosis. http://calmness.com/siddhis.htm As for endure...if you dont like it you dont have to do it...

that doesn't quite hold true for most of those who are slaves.

 

[catalina_francisco]

that doesn't quite hold true for most of those who are slaves.

So true, no limits, no refusal....as for subspace, I am not allowed there even if I was going to take the journey....he likes me to submit consciously at all times so I accept responsibility for what I do, and enjoy the multitude of emotions it may bring.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

hmmm, actually I do have limits, and there are things I refuse...but *shrug* everyone has there own way...IMHO there is *good* enduring, and *bad* enduring...enduring osmething because even though I many not like it all that much, but I know the benefits (my partner likes it, the pain will be rewarding, just knowing I can stand it, etc.) is to me a good thing, somethign I don't mind doing in the least...enduring somethign becuase you are afriad to speak up, beucase you dont want to seem like a wuss, or whatever, even if you are *really* uncomfortable or in a LOT of pain (the bad kind)...well, that is entirely different...

 

[catalina_francisco]

enduring somethign becuase you are afriad to speak up, beucase you dont want to seem like a wuss, or whatever, even if you are *really* uncomfortable or in a LOT of pain (the bad kind)...well, that is entirely different...

LOL...most people who know me and what my life has been would never suggest I might do anything out of fear of speaking up for myself, or because I fear I will be seen as a wuss. My Master would never bother with me if I fit that personality type as he would be bored and disgusted. I submit because I went in search of the type relationship I have knowing full well what I was seeking. It demanded a certain ability to chose one I knew was not psycho or likely to get carried away with his ego to the point of endangering me and pushing me beyond what I was capable of at the time. He is human and open to mistakes the same as the rest of us, but I never submit and endure because I feel I have no choice, but yes, I did submit to a no limits agreement which initially gave me the time to adjust, but which I recently submitted fully to despite his warnings to think carefully before crossing that final threshold of self protection. It is not for many, but it is what I wanted and the only way I felt I could commit.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

Slave sub or other...there is always a way out if you dont like it. Its called the door lol

 

[ownedsubgal]

Slave sub or other...there is always a way out if you dont like it. Its called the door lol

there is no "way out" of my relationship with my Master, save him terminating the relationship. i can't just walk out the door, or run away. He's my Owner, free will is something that went out the window when i agreed to become his slave and mate. if i were to lose my mind and decide to just get up and hit the road...um well i don't like to imagine the consequences.


edited to repeat lara's and Catalina's point that i am definitely not representative of all slaves (or submissives for that matter), and my union with Daddy not representative of all M/s unions.

 

[Kajira Callista]

The post was supposed to be funny...see the lil green guy sticking out his tongue at you? You ppl need to lighten up...all this uptight serious crap is not what this stuff is all about. Just for the record...i was a slave for six years, completly and totally owned...i know the deal.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The post was supposed to be funny...see the lil green guy sticking out his tongue at you? You ppl need to lighten up...all this uptight serious crap is not what this stuff is all about. Just for the record...i was a slave for six years, completly and totally owned...i know the deal.

i'm the first to admit that i tend to be overly serious at times and am always the last one to get a joke. sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Kajira Callista]

s'ok

 

[catalina_francisco]

The post was supposed to be funny...see the lil green guy sticking out his tongue at you? You ppl need to lighten up...all this uptight serious crap is not what this stuff is all about. Just for the record...i was a slave for six years, completly and totally owned...i know the deal.

I guess that is where we may differ.....yes I take this life seriously, though I am known to have a joke as much as anyone....but there is a time and place and nothing wrong with serious discussion of any issue and is in fact desired by many as the forum shows.....balance is the key, not one persons desire dominating all others.

As for being a slave for 6 years, that is good for you, but in no ways means you know the deal in the instance of my life as I live it as there is as osg says no door, and there never will be. This is why diversity is good, but needs to be appreciated that just because I like pain, all sub/slaves should like pain etc. It was taken as a lifetime commitment and as has been pointed out to me often, if I ever decide I am tired of it he will take whatever precautions he feels necessary to help me remain true to my word to be his property for life. Is what I want and committed to in honesty.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

*shaking my head* I will never pretend to get you guys....am I am not saying that a bad thing...just saying that I could never in a million years imagine submitting that fully, to the point where there wasn't a door, my insticts for paranoia are to acute...not to mention, I could never trust someone as fully as you trust...it is beyond me to do so now, if ever...but (though you didn't ask for it) I applaud your ability to do so...I would be too worried to devote myself, becuase when the relationship ends, or goes bad...then I'm screwed, mentally, emotionally, and so on....


just my two cents

 

[Kajira Callista]

Ya know...i just dont get ppl who cant laugh at a joke or understand when someone knows where you are coming from and types something a little light because she knows.One thing it seems that alot of ppl around here have yet to learn is that if you arent having fun and you lose your abilty to laugh with others who are the same as you, you are not getting the whole picture here. I post and have posted that i am here to have fun and meet some ppl into the lifestlye for real. And ya know what...as joking as my post was...if it came down to that (which we all hope it doesnt for anyone ever) you can leave, and anyone who tells you that you cant is wrong...you gave up control by choice not force and you can leave the same way. It is a beautiful thing to be devoted to a Master/Mistress this way and to feel you belong to him and could never go....but in reality, if you had to, the door would be unlocked.Remember a Master/Mistress who owns you is supposed to know and do whats best for you at all times. I will go so far as to venture to ask Masters/Mistresses who post here; if your sub/slave was truly unhappy in the relationship, would you let her go? Im pretty sure the answers would be yes all around.

 

[catalina_francisco]

*shaking my head* I will never pretend to get you guys....am I am not saying that a bad thing...just saying that I could never in a million years imagine submitting that fully, to the point where there wasn't a door, my insticts for paranoia are to acute...not to mention, I could never trust someone as fully as you trust...it is beyond me to do so now, if ever...but (though you didn't ask for it) I applaud your ability to do so...I would be too worried to devote myself, becuase when the relationship ends, or goes bad...then I'm screwed, mentally, emotionally, and so on....


just my two cents

Sorry if you feel misunderstod hurtme, and I sincerely apologise if I or anyone gave that impression. It is a fact here though that there is a certain often unspoken expected behaviour level, which while broade than some places, for those who are outside that bracket on either end, there is not always loving embraces for their levels and often disbelief for the more extreme. I have no problem with where people feel comfortable for whatever reason, but have at times I and others have been questioned as to where we are at and why. It is all about growing and knowing what is right for you at the time in question.

Catalina