Endurance vs. pleasure

[catalina_francisco]

And all slaves are not submissive? If you werent submissive you wouldnt be a slave, and that creed was not about rules for anyone...there are no rules.

Wow now I am confused. I have said in my previous post and several places on other threads slaves are submissives, but submissives not necessarily slaves....for clarification, my words from the recent post why they are slaves first, submissives second.

And I did not mention rules anywhere I remember, just that there are a variety of relationship models, and because you live by one and point me in the direction of the creed, does not mean that is what fits mine. If it fits you by all means enjoy it as much as I do mine, but don't insist my relationship is not as it is and has a way out when I live the reality it doesn't and is why I went into this type relationship, in fact searching the world for it in the first place. Accept we are different modes of slave with different terms, and thik ouside the square enough to appreciate there are a variety of models people live in, not just the ones you relate or I relate to respectively.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

And here is a slaves prayer...im sorry but if you are thinking a slave is not allowed pleasure then something is wrong...you pleasure should come from pleasing your Master and serving him. Thats what its all about.

As I have said in many places ( and those who have met or know me personally can verify) I get more than enough pleasure from my choice of relationship, but if I find tomorrow I don't, I will still be here as it is what I agreed to and despite you feeling it should be all about my pleasure, I disagree in that in my realtionship, it is about his pleasure. If I find pleasure in serving him that is a plus, but there are many things asked of me and some slaves which are not pleasureable, but it is not about then stamping my foot and saying 'no fair, I'm leaving'...it is about serving no matter what.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

wow, its like a freaking tennis match in here, I really almost hate to break it up...but I am going to anyway, at least momentarily.
I don't presume to understand anyone elses decisions in their life, but I am goin to try and make some sense... Kajira, we share some things in common...if I was consistantly not happy in a relationship, I would leave, simple as that...yes, I do it for more than the sex, I submit because it fulfills me in a deeply spiritual way, but i am not a slave, its not a life I could ever live, i think about more than pleasing someone else...I do not live to serve anyone all the time...and I am not saying that its wrong to do so, if I haven't made it clear before catalina I very much respect your decisions. But I also think I get where catalina in coming from that no relationship is roses all the time...I think the point she is trying to make...and I get this (I hope, or I could be ocmpletely off course) is that sometimes relationships aren't easy, nilla or otherwise, and a lot of people take easy outs, divorce, etc...not having the option to leave means that she is secure in the knowledge that yes, there may be bad days, yes, sometimes things are unhappy (cause in reality, no one can be happy all the time without some really good drugs) but instead of having the option to run, she has to ride it out...no matter what...because she has made that commitment...and its not something I could do, and as she has said, its not something a lot fo people could do...although it must be a nice thing, to know even if you are having a bad week, or year, you have that commitment...even those that are married don't often have that...but it works for her just like what i do works for me and what you do works for you...so everyone smile dammit!

 

[Kajira Callista]

im pretty sure if catalina was being abused or was completely unhappy in her relationship she wouldnt be there, and would find an out. I dont want to argue a point that is obvious anymore either.

 

[catalina_francisco]

wow, its like a freaking tennis match in here, I really almost hate to break it up...but I am going to anyway, at least momentarily.
I don't presume to understand anyone elses decisions in their life, but I am goin to try and make some sense... Kajira, we share some things in common...if I was consistantly not happy in a relationship, I would leave, simple as that...yes, I do it for more than the sex, I submit because it fulfills me in a deeply spiritual way, but i am not a slave, its not a life I could ever live, i think about more than pleasing someone else...I do not live to serve anyone all the time...and I am not saying that its wrong to do so, if I haven't made it clear before catalina I very much respect your decisions. But I also think I get where catalina in coming from that no relationship is roses all the time...I think the point she is trying to make...and I get this (I hope, or I could be ocmpletely off course) is that sometimes relationships aren't easy, nilla or otherwise, and a lot of people take easy outs, divorce, etc...not having the option to leave means that she is secure in the knowledge that yes, there may be bad days, yes, sometimes things are unhappy (cause in reality, no one can be happy all the time without some really good drugs) but instead of having the option to run, she has to ride it out...no matter what...because she has made that commitment...and its not something I could do, and as she has said, its not something a lot fo people could do...although it must be a nice thing, to know even if you are having a bad week, or year, you have that commitment...even those that are married don't often have that...but it works for her just like what i do works for me and what you do works for you...so everyone smile dammit!

Thank you hurtme

...thought maybe I was losing my marbles...LOL...I am sure Master thinks that regularly but he puts up with me as although we are married and could get divorced legally (though we don't see us wanting to), we made this commitment based on our belief of what we both saw as the ultimate M/s dynamic for us. Luckily we have a deep love, spiritual connection, and a belief in communication at all times which gets us through the bad times and into the good again.

The D/s relationship is far above the marriage one and is what sets the guidelines for our connection. Divorce would not mean I was free, just I was no longer his wife, only his slave. I understand the difficulty some may have with the concept as I do not believe it is an easy one to imagine, similar to trying to imagine infinity...you know of the concept but the reality is harder to visualise. Think it comes down to as I have siad, thinking outside the square of one's reality to appreciate there are other ways, other concepts, which are just as valid, just different.

Catalina in bliss

 

[catalina_francisco]

im pretty sure if catalina was being abused or was completely unhappy in her relationship she wouldnt be there, and would find an out. I dont want to argue a point that is obvious anymore either.

You seem to have missed the obvious part I'm afraid. As to abuse, that exists as a possibility only in a relationship where I have rights and limits of my own, neither of which I have as I have surrendered them completely to his power....TPE for us, service for me.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

catalina, I think that is the dirtiest smiley I have ever seen...I love it!

 

[catalina_francisco]

catalina, I think that is the dirtiest smiley I have ever seen...I love it!

What can I say except there are more every day, and a certain Master has some of the best and won't share. LOL. Of course some are more cheeky than others.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

You seem to have missed the obvious part I'm afraid. As to abuse, that exists as a possibility only in a relationship where I have rights and limits of my own, neither of which I have as I have surrendered them completely to his power....TPE for us, service for me.

Catalina

i've been following this exchange carefully and with great interest, and there were quite a few times i've felt compelled to some comments of Kajira's which i think COMPLETELY disregard the reality of many M/s unions, but then i find that Callista has expressed very much what i wish to express only much more clearly and beautifully. this lifestyle is not about pleasure for me. being my Master's slave, as wonderful and awesome as it can be, is not about my pleasure. my LIFE is about serving and pleasing my Master. fulfilling his needs and desires. and yes, it pleases me to please him, but that may not always be so. forget normal ups and downs that everyone, in the lifestyle and out, face within a serious committed relationship. as a slave things may at times (or forever, if the Master chooses) be almost impossibly difficult...painful...even cruel. that is the reality when you place your life in the hands of another. they can do with that life what they will. it is not my right as property to say, oh, i've had enough, i can't suffer here anymore, i'm leaving. because it's not about me. it's about HIM. He is who and what i live for. nothing else. including, and especially, me.

as for the issue of abuse, as Callista pointed out, it's rather a moot issue in a total property relationship. in order to abuse me, my Master would have to do something to me which he has no right to do...and there is no such thing, as he has full and complete rights over me. and as for the submissive's creed, i couldn't relate to that even as an unowned submissive. they make the assumption of power and choice over one's submissive nature, which is not reality for us all. the slave's prayer sounds like a nice lil credo for one particular slave in one particular M/s union, but definitely not something that addresses the sort of union i have with Daddy at all.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Well ya know im sitting here thinking...you dont know where i come from, nor do you choose to know, and you are making the assumptions. But anyway its good to know ya all post about preditors to newbies and then pretty much say....if my master decides he doesnt want me to breathe anymore...thats ok. I understand the devotion and the ownership, i know you dont walk away when the going is rough, you all need to stop assuming and read all the words i type instead of the ones you can turn around to sound how you want them to...the sub creed was to show it is a sisters responsibilty to help educate another...but you missed that point, because you wanted to. Im done arguing, its not my thing and hopefully someone reading this got the point. *shrugs*

 

[ownedsubgal]

Well ya know im sitting here thinking...you dont know where i come from, nor do you choose to know, and you are making the assumptions. But anyway its good to know ya all post about preditors to newbies and then pretty much say....if my master decides he doesnt want me to breathe anymore...thats ok. I understand the devotion and the ownership, i know you dont walk away when the going is rough, you all need to stop assuming and read all the words i type instead of the ones you can turn around to sound how you want them to...the sub creed was to show it is a sisters responsibilty to help educate another...but you missed that point, because you wanted to. Im done arguing, its not my thing and hopefully someone reading this got the point. *shrugs*

Kajira, first, i'm not one to make post warning newbies about potential predators. i've seen that thread and have not taken part in it, for various reasons. second, i didn't miss your point about a "responsibility" to other submissives, namely new submissives. i just do not agree with that thinking, because something it leaves out, is the fact that there are indeed submissives out there like myself, only newly discovering their submission, who are not able to say no, who are naturally submissive to all, who cannot relate to the idea of safewords and putting onself above another and all of that which is the politically correct submissive way to be these days. when i was first exploring the D/s lifestyle, i never ever saw or heard anything online or in a book or while visiting lifestyle gatherings that said it was okay to be a submissive like me. that it was okay not to have all this power and control even when not owned. that it was okay to desire a relationship where you had no rights and where you give yourself COMPLETELY to another...with zero conditions. i never saw any submissive or "slave" educating others about that, unless it was to say that the type of sub i am is not a "real" submissive, is a "doormat", etc. so to me telling newfound submissives that they should have this right and that, should know this and that, should do this and that, is guiding them towards one particular kind of submission that may be completely against their nature, and which leaves submissives like myself...completely alone and in the dark.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I too learned by doing not reading. I find online could be a dangerous scary place for someone trying to understand themselves as submissives. They cant see expressions or body language,the words they read are interpreted the way they want them to be. I dunno, its a soft spot for me, i dont wanna see a submissive just learning about herself harmed emotionally or physically because she misinterpreted something she read online.Im a very soft kind person who will always offer what i know to anyone, if it can help them. And i still stand behind what i said before...if its not right for you or catalina, that doesnt bother me at all. But for whom ever reads this that is submissive....if it feels wrong in your gut, or you are afraid for your life, or its something too extreme to handle emotionally or physically; there is a way out, and it doesnt make you any less submissive because you needed to go. I would let you talk to my friend Tara about it ...but she died 13 years ago from 27 stab wounds...because she didnt think there was a way out and her Master felt like using her that night.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I too learned by doing not reading. I find online could be a dangerous scary place for someone trying to understand themselves as submissives. They cant see expressions or body language,the words they read are interpreted the way they want them to be. I dunno, its a soft spot for me, i dont wanna see a submissive just learning about herself harmed emotionally or physically because she misinterpreted something she read online.Im a very soft kind person who will always offer what i know to anyone, if it can help them. And i still stand behind what i said before...if its not right for you or catalina, that doesnt bother me at all. But for whom ever reads this that is submissive....if it feels wrong in your gut, or you are afraid for your life, or its something too extreme to handle emotionally or physically; there is a way out, and it doesnt make you any less submissive because you needed to go. I would let you talk to my friend Tara about it ...but she died 13 years ago from 27 stab wounds...because she didnt think there was a way out and her Master felt like using her that night.

i'm sorry you lost your friend Kajira, and it's always tragic to hear about someone cruelly losing their life. i didn't know your friend or her Master or the details of their relationships, so i can't comment further on that. but i will say this...my life is my Master's, and if he does not wish this heart of mine to continue ticking any longer? He has the right to end it. it's not something i could ever in a million years fathom him doing, but he retains the right nonetheless. i have no and never had a "way out". wouldn't it be a better message to new submissives to tell them that if within a relationship, they need that knowledge in their minds that if things become more bad than good, if they are unhappy, if they just can't deal for whatever reason...that there's a way out...that that's okay? and if within a union they need to know that there will NOT be a way out...that's okay too? isn't it better to acknowledge the fact that all submissives are not the same rather than ostracize?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm with osg in providing an all round education. If you hide the truth out of misguided kindness by telling novices there is always an out option, they can just as easily fall into a situation where they commit in ignorance to someone who says there isn't an out, and they think it is just talk to thrill them, finding out too late it isn't. I am a believer of if you choose this lifestyle you do it with eyes wide open and as much information at your fingertips as is possible so you can make an informed and mature choice as to what is right for you, not cry foul when you find you have just not understood what you were getting into. The lifestyle itself is based on the premise of taking responsibility and playing safe, part of that safety is knowing what all the roles possible are before signing your life away mindlessly.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

Okay.... I win!












hahahahaha.....

 

[A Desert Rose]

I have just what this thread needs:

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have just what this thread needs:

Yes, a female who can deal extraordinarily with any situation, even untimely pregnancy, and also knows when to submit to the right male....tend to like them Domly.

C

 

[landcruisergal]

Pain is not always connected to my sexuality, I enjoy needleplay for the pure sensation of it. Like a walk on the beach at sunset or a recreational drug.I adore that feeling of a precious moment in time. " I am here.I am alive. This is me right now" I love being absorbed into the physical.Its like an affirmation of my being.
Pain augments my sexual desires by heightening my awareness of my body and its reactions.The counting like a mantra, the carress, the stroke, the sting, the ache...Focus and flow.
Endurance. I had a tattoo on my lowerback that took 4 hours and that wasnt pleasurable but I endured it. I dont have to 'endure' any pain in my bdsm life as I am in the right head space to receive it willingly and as a participant. He likes to inflict, I like to please him and this too is a precious moment in time.

And kangaroos only have to give birth to an inch long joey, and have the ability to store fertized eggs so they can procreate in the absence of a male. Damn, where did we go wrong?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pain is not always connected to my sexuality, I enjoy needleplay for the pure sensation of it. Like a walk on the beach at sunset or a recreational drug.I adore that feeling of a precious moment in time. " I am here.I am alive. This is me right now" I love being absorbed into the physical.Its like an affirmation of my being.
Pain augments my sexual desires by heightening my awareness of my body and its reactions.The counting like a mantra, the carress, the stroke, the sting, the ache...Focus and flow.
Endurance. I had a tattoo on my lowerback that took 4 hours and that wasnt pleasurable but I endured it. I dont have to 'endure' any pain in my bdsm life as I am in the right head space to receive it willingly and as a participant. He likes to inflict, I like to please him and this too is a precious moment in time.

And kangaroos only have to give birth to an inch long joey, and have the ability to store fertized eggs so they can procreate in the absence of a male. Damn, where did we go wrong?

I think that feeling of being alive may be a driving force behind much of what some of us do. Contemporary life has sort of dulled a lot of that survival experience which once was a daily occurrance.

And yes, kangas are extraordinary animals. I know at least the one species female can halt a pregnancy at any stage if there is a threat to her required near perfect conditions, such as a drought, then when the rains come, or needed circumstances change for the better, resume where she left off as if nothing had happened, giving birth to a joey in a place in time which will maximise survival chances. Australian animals do seem to have a code of their own in the evolutionary stakes.

Catalina

 

[landcruisergal]

I think that feeling of being alive may be a driving force behind much of what some of us do. Contemporary life has sort of dulled a lot of that survival experience which once was a daily occurrance.

And yes, kangas are extraordinary animals. I know at least the one species female can halt a pregnancy at any stage if there is a threat to her required near perfect conditions, such as a drought, then when the rains come, or needed circumstances change for the better, resume where she left off as if nothing had happened, giving birth to a joey in a place in time which will maximise survival chances. Australian animals do seem to have a code of their own in the evolutionary stakes.

Catalina

Catalina, you touched a raw nerve.Pain used to be an accepted part of life, indigenous australians used to be considered as having a higher threshold for pain but now its understood that pain is such a common event in their struggle to live, they endure it without a fuss, not suffer any less as "white medicine" saw it.Broke your leg. No big deal.And they walk to the clinic on it. Power of mind over matter.
Pain has a place in rights of passage. We in our pain free, raising kids in cotton wool safety have forgotten that pain is a neccesary part of growth, of learning and if it hurts it is teaching you something, be it to take more care, in what you do or to care for your body. As kids, we used to love showing off scars and wounds to others in the schoolyard.You live to tell the tale.You have survived.You are living!
I am learning to embrace my mortality also***** as just a series of moments.Sorry, off the subject I know.
And as I look at the overcast sky here in perth, I am a happy australian animal waiting for the rain.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Catalina, you touched a raw nerve.Pain used to be an accepted part of life, indigenous australians used to be considered as having a higher threshold for pain but now its understood that pain is such a common event in their struggle to live, they endure it without a fuss, not suffer any less as "white medicine" saw it.Broke your leg. No big deal.And they walk to the clinic on it. Power of mind over matter.
Pain has a place in rights of passage. We in our pain free, raising kids in cotton wool safety have forgotten that pain is a neccesary part of growth, of learning and if it hurts it is teaching you something, be it to take more care, in what you do or to care for your body. As kids, we used to love showing off scars and wounds to others in the schoolyard.You live to tell the tale.You have survived.You are living!
I am learning to embrace my mortality also***** as just a series of moments.Sorry, off the subject I know.
And as I look at the overcast sky here in perth, I am a happy australian animal waiting for the rain.

Nice to meet another Aussie who knows the real history of our land and people. I love the enduring spirit and 'she'll be right mate' attitude of Australia and the stereotypical Australian which is slowly dying to some extent. It is more than a crying shame our people still live in appalling conditions in places against their will and yet it still gets swept under the carpet and excused away under a myriad of excuses and denials from the powers that be...ugh, better not get me started on my soapbox.

LOL...people here think I am crazy as I am loving so much rain here and the gray skies like we are enjoying this morning. Have tried to explain I come from the Land Down Under where it is acknowledged and reality we are the driest continent on earth, but it is a bit difficult for many to understand. Miss those wonderful Queensland summer storms something shocking...just are not the same here.....far too quiet and civilised!!!

Catalina

 

[landcruisergal]

Nice to meet another Aussie who knows the real history of our land and people. I love the enduring spirit and 'she'll be right mate' attitude of Australia and the stereotypical Australian which is slowly dying to some extent. It is more than a crying shame our people still live in appalling conditions in places against their will and yet it still gets swept under the carpet and excused away under a myriad of excuses and denials from the powers that be...ugh, better not get me started on my soapbox.

LOL...people here think I am crazy as I am loving so much rain here and the gray skies like we are enjoying this morning. Have tried to explain I come from the Land Down Under where it is acknowledged and reality we are the driest continent on earth, but it is a bit difficult for many to understand. Miss those wonderful Queensland summer storms something shocking...just are not the same here.....far too quiet and civilised!!!

Catalina

The steriotypical aussie isnt dying out Cat, My b/f drops 'no worries and cobber and mate' into his conversations with gay abandon.(cringe, now thats painful) Theres a lot of ockers still out at minesites, properties and fishing towns around the country. The B&S's and rodeos still go on. The Gympie Muster is bigger than ever. And a country lad would never let his mates down, or snog another mates missus (quote from a mate heard last week no less)...No wuckers Cat. Theres a lot of yobbo's left, alas. Sorry for the highjack.. running away..........LCG

 

[catalina_francisco]

The steriotypical aussie isnt dying out Cat, My b/f drops 'no worries and cobber and mate' into his conversations with gay abandon.(cringe, now thats painful) Theres a lot of ockers still out at minesites, properties and fishing towns around the country. The B&S's and rodeos still go on. The Gympie Muster is bigger than ever. And a country lad would never let his mates down, or snog another mates missus (quote from a mate heard last week no less)...No wuckers Cat. Theres a lot of yobbo's left, alas. Sorry for the highjack.. running away..........LCG

Oh, Gympie is where I am from originally and one of the fam were one of the original organisers of the Muster. Yes, it still exists, but I find it is being infiltrated more by other concepts, most especially in the big towns and cities, to a point where people will criticise Australianisms as bad ad attempt to wipe them out. Stone the crows it gets on my wick something shocking. Lucky we can 'endure'. LOL

Back on topic...In my original post about awareness of being alive and the loss of that element to a degree in our ordinary lives, thus maybe being exercised through pain etc., I was more thinking in general in that we have so many more modern conveniences which make our lives sometimes border on mundane. Where once, even taking a bat was a luxury, now all we do is turn on a tap and it is ready. Those times past exercised the body fully, making our existnce easily felt, whereas now many of us never have to barely move to keep breathing. Pain may be a way of replacing those physical and mental tribulations of old.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

People wonder why I do somethings, they wonder why I suddenly have an overwhelming urge to go have a ring shoved through a part of my body, or my new love, something drawn on me with a tattoo gun...they wonder why when I cut myself I don't run around the house crying, they wonder why I enjoy pain...some days I can't remember what happened two hours ago, but I can always remember every sting of the needle, it firmly grounds me in reality, a place I don't normally visit, and it lets me know that I am not dead inside, that I can feel and hurt and exist. That pain can course through my body, I can feel it in my soul and it clenses me, because during really intense pain, that is all I can focus on, this throbbing ball of energy that wipes away everything else like flashfire, and makes nothign else matter, not the shitty things I have done, not the shitty things I will do...I can't worry, or feel guilty, or sad, or depressed, I can just feel...

 

[Kajira Callista]

Kinda puts you at peace....nothing better then that feeling of the weight being lifted and nothing else mattering