Endurance vs. pleasure

[catalina_francisco]

Ya know...i just dont get ppl who cant laugh at a joke or understand when someone knows where you are coming from and types something a little light because she knows.One thing it seems that alot of ppl around here have yet to learn is that if you arent having fun and you lose your abilty to laugh with others who are the same as you, you are not getting the whole picture here. I post and have posted that i am here to have fun and meet some ppl into the lifestlye for real. And ya know what...as joking as my post was...if it came down to that (which we all hope it doesnt for anyone ever) you can leave, and anyone who tells you that you cant is wrong...you gave up control by choice not force and you can leave the same way. It is a beautiful thing to be devoted to a Master/Mistress this way and to feel you belong to him and could never go....but in reality, if you had to, the door would be unlocked.Remember a Master/Mistress who owns you is supposed to know and do whats best for you at all times. I will go so far as to venture to ask Masters/Mistresses who post here; if your sub/slave was truly unhappy in the relationship, would you let her go? Im pretty sure the answers would be yes all around.

KC, it seems I and others do not have as much problem with humour as you have accepting another's reality because you see it only from where you stand. I have numerous postings on this forum which show I have more of a sense of humour than you seem to wish to acknowledge. That being said though, I initially gave you the benefit of the doubt as you once again felt your humour had not been appreciated. I revert to my initial thought that it was not humour, but feined humour to give you an out when challenged for judging and/or ridiculing another's choice of lifestyle.

I have spoken in truth about the boundaries of my relationship, as has osg, and we both acknowledge it does not fit everyone who wishes to enter a Master/slave relationship. It is not for you to tell Master or I that I can leave anytime I want, and if you know the ins and outs of being slave as you say, you would realise it is not only not your place, but bad manners to continue pushing your point.

The board is a good place to have fun and meet people, but it is also a place to participate in serious discussion for those who wish, and as I said before it is about balance, not me saying I want it all serious, or you feeling it is a place for fun only, which makes it what it is and a rarity in the land of discussion boards. As has been pointed out often, it is why we have BDSM Talk, and Cafe so there is freedom to participate in both or one, whichever is to your taste. I choose to participate in both as it balances my life here, and try to respect other's rights to continue play or serious discussion in respective threads.

Catalina

 

[hurtme]

nah, I don't feel misunderstood

 

[catalina_francisco]

nah, I don't feel misunderstood

That's good.

Catalina

 

[spankableBelle]

i don't know if this will make any sense, but...

if one goes into the D/s or M/s relationship with the mindset of 'i'm submitting of my own free will and saying that i am giving Him control over me, that i am slave to Him, and that i belong to Him, however, i still maintain that there is always the door if it becomes too hard and i cease enjoying it at some point...'

Isn't that one holding onto her own will, holding control over herself, instead of having surrendered it as she had led Him to believe? Somehow to me that diminshes the whole point of surrender...

If one is going to hold onto the option of 'walking out the door', why bother in the first place with a power exchange relationship? Personally, i can't see doing that or wanting that. i don't want to hold onto that option, i'd be too tempted to use it, too tempted to walk away when challenged, when made uncomfortable in a situation, when frustrated to the point of tears, when any number of things occur.

i don't have 6 or 10 or 15 years experience of being slave. i don't even have 1 year experience of being slave. i have just begun exploring this path, but i have spent considerable time over the last 4 years studying the lifestyle, people in it, etc...and most don't know the 'whole deal' and admit that they never will know it all. i hope that for myself, that i never do, that i will always keep learning, keep striving for more knowledge, keep being pushed through my own limits, keep challenging myself and exploring that deeper level of surrender, and that that door will be locked, the key thrown away...that i am unable to get out when the going gets tough or when i simply don't want to do it anymore. That's not the essence of my definition of being slave.

Just my opinions and 1/2 cent worth...

belle

 

[ownedsubgal]

i don't know if this will make any sense, but...

if one goes into the D/s or M/s relationship with the mindset of 'i'm submitting of my own free will and saying that i am giving Him control over me, that i am slave to Him, and that i belong to Him, however, i still maintain that there is always the door if it becomes too hard and i cease enjoying it at some point...'

Isn't that one holding onto her own will, holding control over herself, instead of having surrendered it as she had led Him to believe? Somehow to me that diminshes the whole point of surrender...

i agree Belle...i myself have never understood the, "i'm a slave, i belong to my Master/Mistress completely, but..." and the buts include everything from having the "right" to refuse their Owner when they please to the right to walk away from the relationship when they please. in my mind i am thinking, is that truly this person's idea of slavery? i strive hard not to be narrow minded and limited in my thinking, and acknowledge the fact that there are many different kinds of submission and submissives...but slavery to me is not this broad thing that can be defined any which way as it suits someone. a chicken and a turkey, while both birds, are not one and the same and i can't smile and pretend that they are.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Maybe my post wasnt clear...i will try to clarify what i said. If your Master found you to be unhappy in any way...im pretty sure he would release you. This is not about being unhappy was what ive been trying to say all along.

 

[catalina_francisco]

i don't know if this will make any sense, but...

if one goes into the D/s or M/s relationship with the mindset of 'i'm submitting of my own free will and saying that i am giving Him control over me, that i am slave to Him, and that i belong to Him, however, i still maintain that there is always the door if it becomes too hard and i cease enjoying it at some point...'

Isn't that one holding onto her own will, holding control over herself, instead of having surrendered it as she had led Him to believe? Somehow to me that diminshes the whole point of surrender...

If one is going to hold onto the option of 'walking out the door', why bother in the first place with a power exchange relationship? Just my opinions and 1/2 cent worth...

belle

Is how I see it too Belle. There are so many variations which offer a variety of options to suit everyone. The difficulty is making sure you make the right one for you based on informed options. For me I wanted that commitment and power exchange where I could not keep thinking, 'well I can always go if it doesn't work the way I want or expect', I wanted to know once I committed to it, it was where I was expected to be always whether it was good or bad. Thankfully it has been mostly good and gives me the challenges I need to keep me occupied and growing.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Maybe my post wasnt clear...i will try to clarify what i said. If your Master found you to be unhappy in any way...im pretty sure he would release you. This is not about being unhappy was what ive been trying to say all along.

And as I pointed out in my other posts, he continues to make it clear he will not....we both knew the commitment we wanted and made before jumping in thoughtlessly and backstepping later when times got tough. No, it is not about being unhappy, but it also is not about safety nets which give easy outs like in vanilla with the divorce option. We did not want vanilla, nor did we expect it to be a breeze, though I am happy to say most days it seems as natural as breathing. As you would appreciate, I would not be stupid enough to have his initial cut permanently into my butt if I thought it was an option to end the relationship someday. Being the sadist he is, I daresay keeping me were we not happy would appeal to him heaps.

Catalina

 

[spankableBelle]

Maybe my post wasnt clear...i will try to clarify what i said. If your Master found you to be unhappy in any way...im pretty sure he would release you. This is not about being unhappy was what ive been trying to say all along.

But it's not always about being happy? Is it? If it was all wine and roses all the time, where's the growth? Where's the challenge? Where's the stimulus beyond boredom? Isn't it instead about service to One? Surrender and submission even when things aren't all peachy and sunny? Even when we're backed into a corner that we don't like, pushed to the point of breaking?

If i had a Master that at the first sign of my being unhappy released me... well, He wouldn't be right for me in the first place. i personally need One a lot stronger than that, One that will work through that unhappiness with me...

That's the other 1/2 cent worth...

belle

 

[catalina_francisco]

But it's not always about being happy? Is it? If it was all wine and roses all the time, where's the growth? Where's the challenge? Where's the stimulus beyond boredom? Isn't it instead about service to One? Surrender and submission even when things aren't all peachy and sunny? Even when we're backed into a corner that we don't like, pushed to the point of breaking?

If i had a Master that at the first sign of my being unhappy released me... well, He wouldn't be right for me in the first place. i personally need One a lot stronger than that, One that will work through that unhappiness with me...

That's the other 1/2 cent worth...

belle

LOL...at this rate you will be rich in no time Belle.

C

 

[ownedsubgal]

Maybe my post wasnt clear...i will try to clarify what i said. If your Master found you to be unhappy in any way...im pretty sure he would release you. This is not about being unhappy was what ive been trying to say all along.

as Belle and Catalina have beautifully put and i agree, a M/s union is not all about happiness. the purpose of me being my Master's property is not my own happiness. there have been many, many hard times...much pain (variety), much difficult, tedious learning and growth and knocks on the head all along the way. this is not an easy path to follow and every day will not be a happy one for me as a slave. there was a period about a year or so back when i was at the very depths of unhappiness and hopelessness...and took actions that went against all rights of a slave (don't think i need to spell it out here)...was i released? obviously, not. if anything, it only proved to my Master just how much he was/is needed and how he can never, ever let me go.

 

[hurtme]

keeping in mind there there are MANY different types of submission, and not all will appeal to everyone, I appreciate the candor with everyone sharing their viewpoints. I myself cherish a part of me that does no belong to anyone, except myself, I cherish the freedom I have to say no to something...and for me, it makes my submission more of a gift, it is a gift when I know I have the right to say no to something, and don't...to give a quick example of how my messed up mind works...a couple years ago I wanted to quit smoking for an altheltic event (a marathon)...so I carried a pack of cigarettes with me...and I told myself, they are right there if I want one. Somehow just knowing that, knowing that if I wanted it that bad, it was right there...no one would hate me for it...made it easier for me to not have one. Knowing that I can say no, and I can walk out the door if I am unhappy makes me stay (even when things are rough), if that makes any sense...

 

[catalina_francisco]

keeping in mind there there are MANY different types of submission, and not all will appeal to everyone, I appreciate the candor with everyone sharing their viewpoints. I myself cherish a part of me that does no belong to anyone, except myself, I cherish the freedom I have to say no to something...and for me, it makes my submission more of a gift, it is a gift when I know I have the right to say no to something, and don't...to give a quick example of how my messed up mind works...a couple years ago I wanted to quit smoking for an altheltic event (a marathon)...so I carried a pack of cigarettes with me...and I told myself, they are right there if I want one. Somehow just knowing that, knowing that if I wanted it that bad, it was right there...no one would hate me for it...made it easier for me to not have one. Knowing that I can say no, and I can walk out the door if I am unhappy makes me stay (even when things are rough), if that makes any sense...

Makes perfect sense to me. I think perhaps if I were younger and had not lived the life I have I would feel a need to have a choice. For me though, I have gone through a life which has had many ups and downs and not only survived, but done it on my terms and mostly through my own efforts and against the odds more than once. That now gives me the strength to submit in every way and never question or second guess myself as to my ability to manage alone, or whether my submission is coloured by something else.

It also makes it a challenge for me, and an honour for Master, for me to go from being an individual with a career, home, and freedom to do as I want, to now live solely for my Master's needs and not have the right to make decisions about my life direction. It is the opposite end of the spectrum and unfamiliar territory which I love.

Catalina

 

[X6QvQ9X]

Failure vs. Pain

First may I bow to all those most worthy wordsmyths within.

As Master's wife, bought and paid for over a decade ago, his chosen first to have and hold, better or worse, blah blah blah. I knew even then of his need to know that we would have no end, that together we would grow and create in our life eternal here and beyond. This basic viewpoint led us to the lifestyle we now both lead.

I am mommy/sub and he is Daddy/Dom, "BUT" reality is the state/country we live in does always allow freedom of choice to stay or go. And if ever it would needs be end it could indeed by their law, "HOWEVER" the idea and mere thought truly makes me teary. My dearest love is a child of divorce, and has spoken openly of the pain and confusion it gives a child.

So, while it is true as was said here I could indeed leave, by law, my heart and soul could never look at this as reality. I am a the child of an intact nuclear family, and I know well that stability and endurance gives itself a form of pleasure and pride. I do so love my man more than words can speak. I may not hold the same type of life my parents do, nor expect that all should.

But submission/marriage is a calling that is spiritual and sacred to me. When I chose to serve my lord, as I do now, it actually seemed natural and easy. Each step has been without thought to more than his pleasure, and the road he follows. He wanted me then and now, and I pray always. To me, the loss of his love in my life is the only torture I could not endure.

 

[Kajira Callista]

That was beautifully said, ty for that. That was the point i was trying to make all along. Your words just said it a whole lot more clearly

 

[catalina_francisco]

Clearly or not, reality for me is not reality for you. As to the law, it also prohibits many of the things we do in your part of the world, but does that mean you adhere to it? I haven't noticed. The reality for me and others who are in the same lifestyle choice is, we make a commitment based on trust and honesty, not just what is comfy today and see what happens tomorrow. That is not an option. Slavery in general is not usually thought to be accompanied by limits and 'but if's'.....it is a full commitment which has no out when your feelings are hurt or you are feeling a bit too tired, or you just get tired of the old man and fancy a change of bed partner....it is a lifetime state of service and a challenge. That is why there are variations and submissive states where you are allowed safewords and limits, all a matter of choice for what suits you.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

i don't know if this will make any sense, but...

If one is going to hold onto the option of 'walking out the door', why bother in the first place with a power exchange relationship? Personally, i can't see doing that or wanting that. i don't want to hold onto that option, i'd be too tempted to use it, too tempted to walk away when challenged, when made uncomfortable in a situation, when frustrated to the point of tears, when any number of things occur.

belle

Although it is not a decision that I could ever make for me (being a slave) .... this is a great point.

Rock on ladies and all the stuff.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Im thinking that the point was missed again. We all totally understand that the reason we stay is a mental/emotional/submissive reason which X6QvQ9x stated in the post and that we all love and need, Doms and subs alike. And what i have tried to explain more then once is that the statement i made with the lil frog face attached to it was tongue and cheek. No one is or was trying to judge your choices. But if a situation was a bad one, whether we would chose it or not...there is always a way out. If things are horrible and a sub isnt able to endure them, i dont see that as a good thing. Our Masters choose these things for us because they know we can endure them whether we like them or not and that we do get pleasure from doing so. I have said this to many people before that are new to this and i would like to say it again. This is about pleasure, it could be the pleasure we get from serving Master or the pleasure from the crop or the pleasure from the humiliation or whatever it is you crave. If the pleasure is not there in some form, then you need to evalute your relationship and decide if this life is really for you. For those ppl....that is why there is always an out. I understand as do most here that we do not want the choice , but by posting that there is no choice we are telling the poor girl who recently discovered her submissiveness that her Master (could be a preditor or abuser) has complete control over her forever and there is no way out...and she must endure constant blatent abuse because she is his slave. Think about that for a second, of all who dont post and come seeking information. Part of this lifestlye is educating ppl and helping ppl learn. If i knew how to add an attachment to this i would post something all submissive (in my opinion only) should read...when i figure it out i will

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pleasure can be a part of it, but can also not. That is the point some of us have been trying to get through, it is not about pleasure and what pleases the slave, it is about servicing the Dominant. If I, as a slave find I am miserable, it really is neither here nor there as that is not part of the bargain nor the purpose of being a slave, serving is....so if I am miserable, he still needs to be served and I remain as slave. As has been said, it is not a role for everyone, or for the good times only, with an added security of knowing if it becomes unpleasant, we have options....we don't. Is also why not many choose this path. There are no safe words, no safety nets, no out clauses, no guarantee it will always and only be warm and fuzzy. Perhaps reading the slavespace articles will help define it better, and also this one on safewords http://www.bdsmu.com/page_essay_safeword.html.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

Read it carefully, then you will kno where im coming from

 

[Kajira Callista]

I dont need to read or learn about a life i live and have lived, once again i say i know where you are coming from, you seem to feel the need to overlook that and see what i am saying or the point i have attempted to make more then once. Once again i say, if you would like to know me instead of making assumtions there is a pm button at the bottom of every post i make.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Read it carefully, then you will kno where im coming from

Unfortunately it won't open for me though I think I know the article, but as it say it is a submissive's creed, where as we were speaking about the issue of slaves. That is the point I made earlier, safewords and walking out are acceptable for submissives and fairly understood as normal expectations, slaves roles differ and that is why they are slaves first, submnissives second...they choose to not have that element of movement in their relationships. Apart from that, what is said in one place on the internet, does not make my relationship. There are some who are slaves who do have limits, That is fine and acceptable for them but is not my reality or choice.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

And all slaves are not submissive? If you werent submissive you wouldnt be a slave, and that creed was not about rules for anyone...there are no rules.


A Submissive's Creed



i will communicate with complete honesty my needs, desires, limits, and experience.

i realize that failing to do so will not only prevent my Dom/me and i from having the best experience possible, but can also lead to physical and emotional harm.



i will not try to manipulate my Dom/me.

i will not push to make a scene go the way i feel it should.

In other words, i will not top from the bottom.



i will keep an open mind about trying things that i am not comfortable with and expanding my limits.

i will continue to grow as a submissive and as a human being.



i will accept the responsibility of discovering what pleases my Dom/me, and will do my best to fulfill their wishes and desires.



i will not allow myself to be harmed or abused.

i know that submissive does not equal doormat.



i will be courteous and helpful to my fellow submissives.

i will share my knowledge and experience with others in the hope that they will learn and benefit from where i have been.

i will take the time to help those new to the scene start out on the correct path.



i will be responsive to my Dom/me.

i will not try to hide what my mind and body are feeling so that i may assist them in their responsibilities as my authority.

i know that Dominants are not telepaths, and will not expect my Top to know thoughts or feelings which i do not share.



i will accept in the responsibility of a scene or relationship gone bad.

i will not place total blame on my Dom/me when it is not warranted simply because they are the Dominant.

i realize that things may not work out as they should at all times, and will do my best to put it behind me and move on.



i will give my gift of submission only to those that can responsibly accept and desire to receive.

i will not place anyone in the position of dominating me non-consensually,

nor will i give my respect to someone who has not earned it.



i will be obedient to my Dom/me even if i disagree with what they are requesting.

i realize they have my best interests at heart and often know better than i what i need in a particular situation.



i know that my actions reflect upon my Dom/me, and will do my best to help others see them in a positive way.

i will not intentionally embarrass or displease my Dominant.



Above all, i will wear my title of submissive with honor.

i will never cause others to think that being submissive means to be weak or sub-human.

i will take pride in who and what i am and will never show myself in a negative way.



~author unknown~

 

[catalina_francisco]

I dont need to read or learn about a life i live and have lived, once again i say i know where you are coming from, you seem to feel the need to overlook that and see what i am saying or the point i have attempted to make more then once. Once again i say, if you would like to know me instead of making assumtions there is a pm button at the bottom of every post i make.

I don't make assumptions, but you insist in every post that as you see it, at the end of the day if you are not happy, slave or not, there is an open door to walk out. All I and others have said is that is not my reality, or my choice to make....you just cannot understand it and revert to bringing in vanilla law protecting my rights. I did not enter this relationship to be told by vanilla law what I should follow and believe, what was abuse and what was acceptable, and shown the way out when I felt put out by my Master's demands, otherwise I would have been happy where I was, and I wasn't. Seems to defeat the purpose to go back to vanilla realities to build the parameters of my relationship on.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

And here is a slaves prayer...im sorry but if you are thinking a slave is not allowed pleasure then something is wrong...you pleasure should come from pleasing your Master and serving him. Thats what its all about.








The Slaves Prayer....



Allow me the strength to answer questions I can't fanthom...

Allow me the spirit to know his needs

Allow me the kindness to choke back retorts

Allow me the serenity to serve Him in peace..

Allow me the love to show Him in peace...

Allow me the tenderness to comfort Him...

Allow me the light to show us the way...

Allow me the wisdom to be an asset to Him...

Let me be able to show Him each day my love by my service to Him...

Let me open myself up to completely belong to him...

Let my eyes show Him each day my love by my service to Him...

Let me open myself up to completely belong to him...

Let my eyes show Him the same respect, rather I sit at his side, or kneel at his feet...

Let me accept my punishment with the grace of a woman...

Let me learn to please Him, beyond myself...

Grant me the power to give myself to Him completely...

Give me the strength to please us both...

Permitt me to love myself, in loving Him..

Allow me the peace of serving Him.

For it is my greatest wish, my highest power to make his life complete, as he makes mine