female circumcision (for subs)

[graceanne]

Double post, but you posted just before I did, and I had to say something. K. sounds exactly like B., the king of the overinflated ego. I swear, it's getting to where he and his ego can't even fit in the same room together anymore.

It doesn't help that he can make me an incoherent, drooling puddle in, like, 2.5 seconds.

Yep. I hear that. lol Quite a power trip for them, though.

 

[wenchhh]

I am. I want to be the best damned sub he's ever had, and according to him, he's had alot.
What can I say, I thrive on competition!

 

[EvelynTreemont]

I don't want to be inadvertently offensive, I mean, whatever people want to do is what they want to do, but I honestly cannot understand this. The dominant men that I have been with get most of their pleasure out of making me cum over and over. It's the kind of power they like to have. I can understand a desire to serve, but there is something about genital mutilation that disturbs me on a very fundemental level.

I guess it is one of those things that you REALLY need to research and think about before deciding though. It is a huge decision.

 

[Etoile]

*pouts*
I saw wenchhh's post in my email, and I was all set to come and reply, but then I see that CM has stolen what I was going to say!
So instead I'll look to this:

I don't want to be inadvertently offensive, I mean, whatever people want to do is what they want to do, but I honestly cannot understand this. The dominant men that I have been with get most of their pleasure out of making me cum over and over. It's the kind of power they like to have. I can understand a desire to serve, but there is something about genital mutilation that disturbs me on a very fundemental level.

I guess it is one of those things that you REALLY need to research and think about before deciding though. It is a huge decision.

You are absolutely right, it is a very, very personal decision. It is totally wrong for some people and it is absolutely beautiful for others.

We don't have to worry about "getting it" or understanding why someone would want this. The answer is just that it's right for some people. Whether somebody else cuts off their clit has no bearing on you personally; it's entirely up to them and affects only them. Personally, I couldn't ever do something like this either. And I think anybody who would do this might be a little silly, but I have no problem with them doing it. If somebody wants to cut off their own (or their sub's) clitoris and/or labia, that's their prerogative and I will support them as long as they make the choice wisely.

 

[softnsassy]

And honestly, I don't consider this FGM. In fact, I think putting it in the same category diminishes the gravity around FGM. What we are talking about here is a voluntary practice some consenting adults choose to undergo. FGM is involuntary and performed on babies and young girls for religious reasons. I would not say they are the same thing at all.

FGM is not always involuntary. It is often done voluntarily by one submissive to her cultural norms or her religion's rules. To voluntarily mutilate one's ability to experience sexual pleasure for one's Dom doesn't seem much different from voluntarily mutilating one's ability to experience sexual pleasure for one's religious belief's or culture.

On an aside, are there many male subs who undergo castration as part of their submission?

softnsassy

 

[Etoile]

FGM is not always involuntary. It is often done voluntarily by one submissive to her cultural norms or her religion's rules. To voluntarily mutilate one's ability to experience sexual pleasure for one's Dom doesn't seem much different from voluntarily mutilating one's ability to experience sexual pleasure for one's religious belief's or culture.

On an aside, are there many male subs who undergo castration as part of their submission?

softnsassy

I know there are a lot of guys who undergo castration and/or penis removal. A LOT of guys. I don't know how many are related to submission though.

 

[ownedsubgal]

*bumping this one because all the subbie orgasm topics of late have me longing to hear a voice from the other side...

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[Netzach]

I know there are a lot of guys who undergo castration and/or penis removal. A LOT of guys. I don't know how many are related to submission though.

A subset of a lot?

I think the people who do it FOR the Domme are less likely to be pleased with the outcome than people who are submissive and also want to be eunuchs. I'm just going by what I read from eunuchs.

(My partner is in a very liminal phase over gender and identity and has always been fascinated and on the periphery of the eunuch community thinking about it.) If he does it it will be with my blessing and because I believe it would be right for him, but not because I made him do it. But it would, I think, increase the submissive response and his submissiveness to me, and that may be part of the appeal for him. I just don't want it to be the only appeal. I don't want to be part of any regret.

(no rush on this, chemical castration would be part of the testing out phases)

So I think the most likely scenario for satisfaction in a relationship where there's that level of alteration is from people who have a fetish for the alteration AND view it as submission - just because of the duration. It's not the only way - I just think that banking on the sense of submission to always be able to sublimate any regret or issues thereafter is a bigger gamble.

 

[Homburg]

Wow, squicked, I am.

I love the clit. There is nothing pure in removing my gal's bark button. Wow that would make things way less fun.

Note: Not judging those that do, just saying that I would not in any way, shape, or form, want that particular item removed or modified. It's way too damned much entertainment lost for me if it goes away.

 

[Quint]

...........

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wow, squicked, I am.

I love the clit. There is nothing pure in removing my gal's bark button. Wow that would make things way less fun.

Note: Not judging those that do, just saying that I would not in any way, shape, or form, want that particular item removed or modified. It's way too damned much entertainment lost for me if it goes away.

but what if the submissive woman you were with was totally non-orgasmic, and had no desire to be orgasmic? what if her clitoris was not a "bark button" to begin with, but just a rather useless appendage?

 

[FurryFury]

but what if the submissive woman you were with was totally non-orgasmic, and had no desire to be orgasmic? what if her clitoris was not a "bark button" to begin with, but just a rather useless appendage?

Mutilation isn't my kink regardless. If it is yours and the person you are with, fine, I guess. Still, I'd hate to get rid of something I might want back someday.

 

[catalina_francisco]

but what if the submissive woman you were with was totally non-orgasmic, and had no desire to be orgasmic? what if her clitoris was not a "bark button" to begin with, but just a rather useless appendage?

LOL, if I were a PYL with such a pyl (just imagining, OK?), I would expect them to over ride their own personal desires about whether they wished to be or not to be orgasmic in favour of my own desire. If it was something they seemed to wilfully withhold, especially on the basis it was not their desire to surrender themselves to orgasm for me or anyone, they likely would not last long as my pyl unless they set about reprogramming their mind and priorities to a point I believed it was not possible (which I really do not believe to be the case for anyone who is psychologically willing to work at it), or they succeeded in pleasing me with their success.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I just had a neat mental picture. Female dominant undergoes her own castration because she is above the weakness of sexual desire. Her energy is focused exclusively on the infliction of suffering onto her victims, no distraction by thoughts of her own physical pleasure. I see her becoming almost asexual (definitely not masculine), pure sadism. Edged.

Does that trip anyone else's mind? I think it's hawt.

Yes.

And then I think about my clit and it's suddenly so not. In the abstract love it. I want my own chastity belt to wear in scene sometimes. If parts were removable I would try it out sometimes. I think the sadism would be exquisite.

 

[Netzach]

LOL, if I were a PYL with such a pyl (just imagining, OK?), I would expect them to over ride their own personal desires about whether they wished to be or not to be orgasmic in favour of my own desire. If it was something they seemed to wilfully withhold, especially on the basis it was not their desire to surrender themselves to orgasm for me or anyone, they likely would not last long as my pyl unless they set about reprogramming their mind and priorities to a point I believed it was not possible (which I really do not believe to be the case for anyone who is psychologically willing to work at it), or they succeeded in pleasing me with their success.

Catalina

Yeah, I have to agree. The idea that someone's pleasure is my pleasure works well in a slave - the idea that someone's pleasure is what they think my pleasure ought to be is another kind of relationship. I don't know that I'd get off on forcing someone who prefers/fancies self being a-orgasmic to come though. I don't have a lot of that perverse oppositional in me. I'd have no problem with a non-orgasmic or even excised slave.

But if I think she's a-orgasmic because she thinks that it's too selfish for a slave or it's not something I *should* want for her, that's another issue. If she just IS and is ok with that, I don't really care one way or the other if she quivers and clenches up and makes little squeaking sounds or not. *shrug* I am so much more interested in what she plans on doing for my pussy or for my sadistic drives or for my entertainment than in that.

I've had guys who are willing to be caged for me, no prob. I like that. And then I have guys who say things like "a slave should be caged as often as possible" and that gets my dander up. Hell, castration is a better example:

"I would be castrated for you Mistress!" *ecstatic*

versus

"I think I may be happier a eunuch, Mistress."

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yeah, I have to agree. The idea that someone's pleasure is my pleasure works well in a slave - the idea that someone's pleasure is what they think my pleasure ought to be is another kind of relationship. I don't know that I'd get off on forcing someone who prefers/fancies self being a-orgasmic to come though. I don't have a lot of that perverse oppositional in me. I'd have no problem with a non-orgasmic or even excised slave.

But if I think she's a-orgasmic because she thinks that it's too selfish for a slave or it's not something I *should* want for her, that's another issue. If she just IS and is ok with that, I don't really care one way or the other if she quivers and clenches up and makes little squeaking sounds or not. *shrug* I am so much more interested in what she plans on doing for my pussy or for my sadistic drives or for my entertainment than in that.

I've had guys who are willing to be caged for me, no prob. I like that. And then I have guys who say things like "a slave should be caged as often as possible" and that gets my dander up. Hell, castration is a better example:

"I would be castrated for you Mistress!" *ecstatic*

versus

"I think I may be happier a eunuch, Mistress."

LOL, I wouldn't go out of my way to make them orgasm, especially when there are so many who would without the need for such effort to be applied, but it is good to know you can have that power over another if you are a PYL..not to mention if I was involved with someone who made it clear they really weren't that into sexual pleasure it would be doomed to fizzle out not too far along.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

LOL, if I were a PYL with such a pyl (just imagining, OK?), I would expect them to over ride their own personal desires about whether they wished to be or not to be orgasmic in favour of my own desire. If it was something they seemed to wilfully withhold, especially on the basis it was not their desire to surrender themselves to orgasm for me or anyone, they likely would not last long as my pyl unless they set about reprogramming their mind and priorities to a point I believed it was not possible (which I really do not believe to be the case for anyone who is psychologically willing to work at it), or they succeeded in pleasing me with their success.

Catalina

well obviously there's a big difference between a submissive who willfully withheld their orgasm or whatever else from their Dominant, and one who simply was not orgasmic and didn't have some aching self-absorbed desire to be so. yes, perhaps with the right training, conditioning and de-progamming such a submissive could be made orgasmic in order to fulfill a desire or demand of the Dominant's, but the reality is that with some submissives it will just never happen, and increased pressure to make it happen is only going to lead to a frustrated Dom and a severely damaged, emotionally wrecked submissive.

 

[Netzach]

well obviously there's a big difference between a submissive who willfully withheld their orgasm or whatever else from their Dominant, and one who simply was not orgasmic and didn't have some aching self-absorbed desire to be so. yes, perhaps with the right training, conditioning and de-progamming such a submissive could be made orgasmic in order to fulfill a desire or demand of the Dominant's, but the reality is that with some submissives it will just never happen, and increased pressure to make it happen is only going to lead to a frustrated Dom and a severely damaged, emotionally wrecked submissive.

Totally valid. You don't get a dog and expect purring.

 

[catalina_francisco]

well obviously there's a big difference between a submissive who willfully withheld their orgasm or whatever else from their Dominant, and one who simply was not orgasmic and didn't have some aching self-absorbed desire to be so. yes, perhaps with the right training, conditioning and de-progamming such a submissive could be made orgasmic in order to fulfill a desire or demand of the Dominant's, but the reality is that with some submissives it will just never happen, and increased pressure to make it happen is only going to lead to a frustrated Dom and a severely damaged, emotionally wrecked submissive.

That can be so, though I was likely more thinking of your saying at other times that you have had a couple of orgasms (so it must be possible), but you prefer not to.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

That can be so, though I was likely more thinking of your saying at other times that you have had a couple of orgasms (so it must be possible), but you prefer not to.

Catalina

oh yes, speaking of myself personally, i am obviously somewhat capable of orgasm because it's something that has happened before. but it's a very rare occurence and not something i desire, you are correct. at the same time i do not consider it my place to tell my Master what i will or will not do, or do or do not think is right or proper. if he were the sort to want a regularly or highly orgasmic slave i would do all i could to try and make that happen for his pleasure, but it's certainly not something i could succeed at given the combination of my low drive/response/sensitivity and the immense pressure such a situation would create.

 

[BiBunny]

So it's self-absorbed to want an orgasm? *Arches eyebrow*

 

[Etoile]

but what if the submissive woman you were with was totally non-orgasmic, and had no desire to be orgasmic? what if her clitoris was not a "bark button" to begin with, but just a rather useless appendage?

If it is a useless appendage, why cut it off? Just because the appendix has no purpose doesn't mean you should rush out and have it removed. What would the purpose be of removing the clitoris if it served no purpose to begin with?

just playing devil's advocate

 

[HottieMama]

If it is a useless appendage, why cut it off? Just because the appendix has no purpose doesn't mean you should rush out and have it removed. What would the purpose be of removing the clitoris if it served no purpose to begin with?

just playing devil's advocate

That's the argument i use for my anti-circumcision stance for my sons.


That said...reading some of these posts has made me realize what guys feel when someone talks about kicking them in the nuts.

i my "bark button." **Thanks Homburg**

 

[ownedsubgal]

If it is a useless appendage, why cut it off? Just because the appendix has no purpose doesn't mean you should rush out and have it removed. What would the purpose be of removing the clitoris if it served no purpose to begin with?

just playing devil's advocate

not a bad question. in such a situation, with a non or only mildly sexually responsive submissive, i would view a circumcision as a mostly symbolic act of control. much like the example i used of myself early in this thread, where i talked about being locked in when left by myself for extended periods, even though i would never leave the house anyway due to a combination of being ordered not to do so and having no particular desire to do so. likewise, a submissive may not orgasm, may have no desire to orgasm or may be ordered not to orgasm (and comply without trouble). the circumcision can serve as a tangible symbol of the irrelevance of the submissive's/slave's sexual response and of the Master's power.