Female-Led Relationships

[eroticspank]

There are a lot of good comments from women on this thread on how they do their FLRs. lady_jennaxx and policywank to name a few.

I think something that I have not seen mentioned enough is the need for approval and acceptance by the sub of the Domme in the FLR. I did not come up with the theory, I just stumbled upon it from your great comments.

People see the tasks and chores the men are put through and that is seen as the women being mean by the outside world. But in reality, each task is a chance for us to get approval and acceptance from our Domme. The clapping of her hands, the nod of approval, and an affectionate touch in recognition of what we have done.

Even in the bedroom, if I am assigned a task whatever it may be, I do it to my best ability with love, caring, and my best technique. The result may be awesome for my Domme, but the effort on my part is the most important and is felt by her. She gives her approval/acceptance of my efforts and I find that is more fulfilling than my own orgasm. It is something I feel deep inside and makes we want to do more, for her and us.

ES

 

[liv2srv]

There are a lot of good comments from women on this thread on how they do their FLRs. lady_jennaxx and policywank to name a few.

I think something that I have not seen mentioned enough is the need for approval and acceptance by the sub of the Domme in the FLR. I did not come up with the theory, I just stumbled upon it from your great comments.

People see the tasks and chores the men are put through and that is seen as the women being mean by the outside world. But in reality, each task is a chance for us to get approval and acceptance from our Domme. The clapping of her hands, the nod of approval, and an affectionate touch in recognition of what we have done.

Even in the bedroom, if I am assigned a task whatever it may be, I do it to my best ability with love, caring, and my best technique. The result may be awesome for my Domme, but the effort on my part is the most important and is felt by her. She gives her approval/acceptance of my efforts and I find that is more fulfilling than my own orgasm. It is something I feel deep inside and makes we want to do more, for her and us.

ES

My theory about this isn't fully fleshed out yet, but I do think a HUGE reason men are attracted to dominant Women has to do with approval of all sorts.

That's a big part of the reason i often see a dominant Woman as more of a facilitator/guide for the man than simply an aggressive figure of abuse.

 

[Justplatonic]

There are a lot of good comments from women on this thread on how they do their FLRs. lady_jennaxx and policywank to name a few.

I think something that I have not seen mentioned enough is the need for approval and acceptance by the sub of the Domme in the FLR. I did not come up with the theory, I just stumbled upon it from your great comments.

People see the tasks and chores the men are put through and that is seen as the women being mean by the outside world. But in reality, each task is a chance for us to get approval and acceptance from our Domme. The clapping of her hands, the nod of approval, and an affectionate touch in recognition of what we have done.

Even in the bedroom, if I am assigned a task whatever it may be, I do it to my best ability with love, caring, and my best technique. The result may be awesome for my Domme, but the effort on my part is the most important and is felt by her. She gives her approval/acceptance of my efforts and I find that is more fulfilling than my own orgasm. It is something I feel deep inside and makes we want to do more, for her and us.

ES

That's lovely, eroticspank. Very romantic...

 

[Justplatonic]

My theory about this isn't fully fleshed out yet, but I do think a HUGE reason men are attracted to dominant Women has to do with approval of all sorts.

That's a big part of the reason i often see a dominant Woman as more of a facilitator/guide for the man than simply an aggressive figure of abuse.

Agreed, definitely... We all seek approval by default, and certainly in the context you detailed above. But approval, and what that entails we've discussed before. It may, or may not (it's a Woman's prerogative) follow your unconditional kindness/service, as you well know... Approval can come in many forms, even simply a nod of the head...

My guide feeds into a sub's unconditional kindness/service quite a lot... IMHO, I believe it's the only way for true happiness to proliferate a FLR...

 

[eroticspank]

My theory about this isn't fully fleshed out yet, but I do think a HUGE reason men are attracted to dominant Women has to do with approval of all sorts.

That's a big part of the reason i often see a dominant Woman as more of a facilitator/guide for the man than simply an aggressive figure of abuse.

Agreed, definitely... We all seek approval by default, and certainly in the context you detailed above. But approval, and what that entails we've discussed before. It may, or may not (it's a Woman's prerogative) follow your unconditional kindness/service, as you well know... Approval can come in many forms, even simply a nod of the head...

My guide feeds into a sub's unconditional kindness/service quite a lot... IMHO, I believe it's the only way for true happiness to proliferate an FLR...

I completely agree. I wonder how many men out there have been in a relationship where initially you were not concerned or needed the approval of your partner? But as time passed and you experienced her approval, it became something you enjoyed, sought out, even craved. It began to filter into the bedroom and your relationship slowly changed.

ES

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Good question ES

 

[Kitschshaman]

My theory about this isn't fully fleshed out yet, but I do think a HUGE reason men are attracted to dominant Women has to do with approval of all sorts.

That's a big part of the reason i often see a dominant Woman as more of a facilitator/guide for the man than simply an aggressive figure of abuse.

If I might be able to contribute to this line of inquiry...I think that men who are attracted to a FLR, whether in part time or full time, is not so much 'approval' as it is true acceptance. If a woman is a true caring facilitator/guide, it means that they are willingly participating in the relationship and actually give a damn. I hate to put it so crudely, but there is a beautiful honesty to any relationship that is Dom/Domme/sub in that both people truly want to be there, the sub wants to be bound and the Dom/Domme observes/listens/cares for his/her sub in a way that the sub is seeking.

It's a beautiful thing...

 

[CuttingEdge]

I completely agree. I wonder how many men out there have been in a relationship where initially you were not concerned or needed the approval of your partner? But as time passed and you experienced her approval, it became something you enjoyed, sought out, even craved. It began to filter into the bedroom and your relationship slowly changed.

I am in that situation now.

My situation is a little different in that my girlfriend has been hurt so many times by men in her life that she does not convey emotion well, in fact almost at all. It is odd in that, with the emotional feed back loop broken, the only way to know for certain I am doing the right thing, is to just presume since we are so much alike in other areas of our lives, that she is feeling the same way as me. The workaround emotional feedback loop is thus; she would never convey that she appreciates the chocolates I bought for her, but rather she would tell me if she did not like it. In a strange way, by no getting a negative response, I can conclude that it was a positive one.

I do not always get that right, however she has developed a trait about her that makes all this work: she is very forgiving. Most of the time I can gauge her emotions by assuming they mirror mine, but when they don't, she is very forgiving because she understands I am constantly guessing at how she feels.

This trait has been damaging to her because she feels she needs to change otherwise the revolving door of abusive boyfriends will continue. But this has caused two things: her to want to change something she cannot change, and boyfriends in the past that only half-loved her.

Can you imagine the torment within from years of that?

Over time though, by working around her lack of emotional response, I can show her that she does not have to change, and that she can be unconditionally loved.

 

[liv2srv]

If I might be able to contribute to this line of inquiry...I think that men who are attracted to a FLR, whether in part time or full time, is not so much 'approval' as it is true acceptance. If a woman is a true caring facilitator/guide, it means that they are willingly participating in the relationship and actually give a damn. I hate to put it so crudely, but there is a beautiful honesty to any relationship that is Dom/Domme/sub in that both people truly want to be there, the sub wants to be bound and the Dom/Domme observes/listens/cares for his/her sub in a way that the sub is seeking.

It's a beautiful thing...

I agree completely. I think my decision to use the word "approval" over the the word "acceptance" was, to a certain degree, a minor semantic one.

But i will also concede that it is slightly telling that i did use the word "approval". i think it might be down to the fact that i'm still fairly new to D/s relationships in particular and BDSM in general. Like many noobs in these situations, i come to kink from a fairly vanilla (read: fairly uptight and self-conscious) mind-set, and as such, i think i'm still a little insecure about my explorations.

In the strictest semantic sense, one might argue that "acceptance" brings with it a deeper level of caring and understanding in a relationship than simple "approval" might (again, sort of splitting semantic hairs here), and maybe i'm still worried/nervous about simple "approval" to enough of an extent that i haven't been seeing the deeper connection developing. Or how extraordinary it is that i've found Someone who is willing to "accept" me on that level.

Haha, i think you just 'ejjicated' me, Kitschshaman.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

I do appreciate and enjoy all the experiences and thoughts being shared here

 

[Kitschshaman]

I do appreciate and enjoy all the experiences and thoughts being shared here

And we thank you, for opening the space for discussion beyond and deeper than the usual simplistic 'porn' presentations of cartoon BDSM. The folks involved (not in 'the industry) are real people with deep desires and you have made expressing that possible.

You are deeply appreciated, to say the least.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Many thanks Kitschshaman

 

[Justplatonic]

I am in that situation now.

My situation is a little different in that my girlfriend has been hurt so many times by men in her life that she does not convey emotion well, in fact almost at all. It is odd in that, with the emotional feed back loop broken, the only way to know for certain I am doing the right thing, is to just presume since we are so much alike in other areas of our lives, that she is feeling the same way as me. The workaround emotional feedback loop is thus; she would never convey that she appreciates the chocolates I bought for her, but rather she would tell me if she did not like it. In a strange way, by no getting a negative response, I can conclude that it was a positive one.

I do not always get that right, however she has developed a trait about her that makes all this work: she is very forgiving. Most of the time I can gauge her emotions by assuming they mirror mine, but when they don't, she is very forgiving because she understands I am constantly guessing at how she feels.

This trait has been damaging to her because she feels she needs to change otherwise the revolving door of abusive boyfriends will continue. But this has caused two things: her to want to change something she cannot change, and boyfriends in the past that only half-loved her.

Can you imagine the torment within from years of that?

Over time though, by working around her lack of emotional response, I can show her that she does not have to change, and that she can be unconditionally loved.

Kudos, CuttingEdge... Try to point out a person past middle age who doesn't have some kind of emotional challenge, and I'll eat my hat! Everyone does... What's important is how they/or together with a partner manage it moving forward. Looks like you've nailed it!

We all have to live with our past as a legacy for our future. My Wife has had a similar past, and though she often leads our relationship, there are other times when she just crumbles... I'm there to pick up the pieces, to be the strong one, to support her as best as I can. No judgements, no criticisms, no sarcasm... Just (agreed) unconditional love...

 

[Justplatonic]

I agree completely. I think my decision to use the word "approval" over the the word "acceptance" was, to a certain degree, a minor semantic one.

But i will also concede that it is slightly telling that i did use the word "approval". i think it might be down to the fact that i'm still fairly new to D/s relationships in particular and BDSM in general. Like many noobs in these situations, i come to kink from a fairly vanilla (read: fairly uptight and self-conscious) mind-set, and as such, i think i'm still a little insecure about my explorations.

In the strictest semantic sense, one might argue that "acceptance" brings with it a deeper level of caring and understanding in a relationship than simple "approval" might (again, sort of splitting semantic hairs here), and maybe i'm still worried/nervous about simple "approval" to enough of an extent that i haven't been seeing the deeper connection developing. Or how extraordinary it is that i've found Someone who is willing to "accept" me on that level.

Haha, i think you just 'ejjicated' me, Kitschshaman.

Agreed... It's a bit like tomato, and tomatoe...

 

[eroticspank]

I think along the approval discussion goes approval and acceptance of oneself. I think a big part of being with a Dominant woman is that usually, she is accepting of her own desires, wants, and needs. That self-assured tone can transfer to the sub to be more accepting of himself and even explore areas he never thought possible because of feeling safe and accepted with his Domme. (At the same time before you get into any relationship you need some self-esteem and confidence.)

That is one of the reasons I enjoy this thread. Talking to women in these types of relationships you get that tone in the responses here. We read comments and get to see a little bit of what a FLR is like.

ES

 

[Justplatonic]

I think along the approval discussion goes approval and acceptance of oneself. I think a big part of being with a Dominant woman is that usually, she is accepting of her own desires, wants, and needs. That self-assured tone can transfer to the sub to be more accepting of himself and even explore areas he never thought possible because of feeling safe and accepted with his Domme. (At the same time before you get into any relationship you need some self-esteem and confidence.)

That is one of the reasons I enjoy this thread. Talking to women in these types of relationships you get that tone in the responses here. We read comments and get to see a little bit of what a FLR is like.

ES

Too right... It's really interesting reading all the different takes on FLRs, especially from Women's POV, and how they interact with the people/person around them. I sometimes go back to the start of this thread and reread some of their comments, only because I notice something else I didn't before!

It's a great thread... Thanks Lady Jenna.

 

[naughtymind]

I think along the approval discussion goes approval and acceptance of oneself. I think a big part of being with a Dominant woman is that usually, she is accepting of her own desires, wants, and needs. That self-assured tone can transfer to the sub to be more accepting of himself and even explore areas he never thought possible because of feeling safe and accepted with his Domme. (At the same time before you get into any relationship you need some self-esteem and confidence.)

That is one of the reasons I enjoy this thread. Talking to women in these types of relationships you get that tone in the responses here. We read comments and get to see a little bit of what a FLR is like.

ES

That's a very good point you make. I agree too that talking with dominant, or even just self assured and assertive women, is special. They usually bring out perspectives that aren't just your standard cliches, and command a more honest and thoughtful conversation. I quite appreciate that.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Thoughtful and honest conversation is always a 'win' in my book

 

[naughtymind]

Thoughtful and honest conversation is always a 'win' in my book

Absolutely!

 

[Justplatonic]

That's a very good point you make. I agree too that talking with dominant, or even just self assured and assertive women, is special. They usually bring out perspectives that aren't just your standard cliches, and command a more honest and thoughtful conversation. I quite appreciate that.

Agreed... It's liberating (when with a Woman) to just be yourself... To come as you are... No pretenses, no deception. It especially works well when you're both on the same page.

Honest and thoughtful conversations are the basis of any solid relationship... Without that, you've got diddly squat!

 

[Justplatonic]

I thought I'd throw another hat in the ring... Can a sub be too honest in an FLR?

Many years ago, my ex epitomised the perfect Woman from POV. I wasn't as self aware back then, but I knew I thrived in the company of a Dominant Woman. She was all that and a whole lot more (razor-sharp intelligence a massive turn on for me), and kinky too.

So maybe you're thinking, why did she become my ex? Ultimately for reasons which extend beyond this thread, albeit this forum... But my honesty and it's implications extended further than I first thought.

After dumping me (after almost a year), she was so remorseful, weeks later she got in touch and convinced me to give her another chance.

Can you guess how she reeled me in for another six months only to repeat history? She exploited the very kinks I entrusted her with. I admit I'm as much to blame if not more, as I could've walked away...

Just saying, I do believe its a very fine line between enough and too much honesty... Or perhaps the level of honesty is tempered by your expectations of the FLR you're in...

 

[Kitschshaman]

I thought I'd throw another hat in the ring... Can a sub be too honest in an FLR?

Many years ago, my ex epitomised the perfect Woman from POV. I wasn't as self aware back then, but I knew I thrived in the company of a Dominant Woman. She was all that and a whole lot more (razor-sharp intelligence a massive turn on for me), and kinky too.

So maybe you're thinking, why did she become my ex? Ultimately for reasons which extend beyond this thread, albeit this forum... But my honesty and it's implications extended further than I first thought.

After dumping me (after almost a year), she was so remorseful, weeks later she got in touch and convinced me to give her another chance.

Can you guess how she reeled me in for another six months only to repeat history? She exploited the very kinks I entrusted her with. I admit I'm as much to blame if not more, as I could've walked away...

Just saying, I do believe its a very fine line between enough and too much honesty... Or perhaps the level of honesty is tempered by your expectations of the FLR you're in...

Just my two cents...

I don't think that's a matter of too much honesty, but who you were honest with. It is a difficult thing (and I speak from hard experience) to truly ascertain when a person you care about is a sociopath. Those people can and will do anything to achieve their ends, which in my past experience is to control and abuse where they can. The foundation of any real relationship, BDSM, FLR, or strictly vanilla, is respect and respect for boundaries. The Beatles were WRONG, 'All You Need Is Love' is bullshit. A real relationship (as opposed to abuse, whether mental or physical or both) has at its core a true regard for the other person and what is best for them. To determine that's what you have can be a delicate process because it involves the development of trust. Many people don't know what trust is. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. There are all kinds of trust. The neighbor that you trust to return your tools unbroken or if they are they will make it good. There is the trust of the soldier in the foxhole who knows that buddy will have their back no matter what. There is the trust of a lover, who knows that when they are at their most vulnerable both emotionally and physically, that their partner will not intentionally hurt them. But all of these trusts have at their core the knowledge of what that other person will do. Trust is never immediate. Like a flower, it takes time to develop from a seed to the final shape and scent.
Let me say this: what happened to you was not your fault. That bears repeating. What happened was not your fault. I feel your pain, I do. For a long time and even now from time to time because of my experiences with her, I doubted my instincts because she fooled me completely. It's not a matter of being honest. It is a matter of taking the time to know a person well enough to know that when you are honest, that you can trust that person not to hurt you. That takes time.
If this doesn't make sense to you, just remember this: You don't find your worth in someone else. You find your worth within yourself and then find who is worthy of you. And that applies no matter if the relationship is vanilla or if it's within the magic of an FLR.
Please pardon the epistle...
take care,

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Thank you Kitschshaman for your thoughts, which I feel are spot on, as far as my expectations would be. Very powerful

 

[naughtymind]

I thought I'd throw another hat in the ring... Can a sub be too honest in an FLR?

Many years ago, my ex epitomised the perfect Woman from POV. I wasn't as self aware back then, but I knew I thrived in the company of a Dominant Woman. She was all that and a whole lot more (razor-sharp intelligence a massive turn on for me), and kinky too.

So maybe you're thinking, why did she become my ex? Ultimately for reasons which extend beyond this thread, albeit this forum... But my honesty and it's implications extended further than I first thought.

After dumping me (after almost a year), she was so remorseful, weeks later she got in touch and convinced me to give her another chance.

Can you guess how she reeled me in for another six months only to repeat history? She exploited the very kinks I entrusted her with. I admit I'm as much to blame if not more, as I could've walked away...

Just saying, I do believe its a very fine line between enough and too much honesty... Or perhaps the level of honesty is tempered by your expectations of the FLR you're in...

I have also been there, and done that. It's hard not to be reeled back in, especially if you really are in love with a woman. In my case, in hindsight, she had a definite thrill about how much power she had to seduce. It was extremely dysfunctional, but we were both young and foolish. We both ended up suffering because of it, but we also both healed our wounds, learned from them and moved on to find better partners and deeper loving relationships. I would never forego honesty, or openness to protect against the risks of being hurt... that would only end up "protecting" you from ever experiencing the full depth and pleasure of a meaningful relationship

my 2cents

 

[Justplatonic]

Just my two cents...

I don't think that's a matter of too much honesty, but who you were honest with. It is a difficult thing (and I speak from hard experience) to truly ascertain when a person you care about is a sociopath. Those people can and will do anything to achieve their ends, which in my past experience is to control and abuse where they can. The foundation of any real relationship, BDSM, FLR, or strictly vanilla, is respect and respect for boundaries. The Beatles were WRONG, 'All You Need Is Love' is bullshit. A real relationship (as opposed to abuse, whether mental or physical or both) has at its core a true regard for the other person and what is best for them. To determine that's what you have can be a delicate process because it involves the development of trust. Many people don't know what trust is. Trust is the ability to predict behavior. There are all kinds of trust. The neighbor that you trust to return your tools unbroken or if they are they will make it good. There is the trust of the soldier in the foxhole who knows that buddy will have their back no matter what. There is the trust of a lover, who knows that when they are at their most vulnerable both emotionally and physically, that their partner will not intentionally hurt them. But all of these trusts have at their core the knowledge of what that other person will do. Trust is never immediate. Like a flower, it takes time to develop from a seed to the final shape and scent.
Let me say this: what happened to you was not your fault. That bears repeating. What happened was not your fault. I feel your pain, I do. For a long time and even now from time to time because of my experiences with her, I doubted my instincts because she fooled me completely. It's not a matter of being honest. It is a matter of taking the time to know a person well enough to know that when you are honest, that you can trust that person not to hurt you. That takes time.
If this doesn't make sense to you, just remember this: You don't find your worth in someone else. You find your worth within yourself and then find who is worthy of you. And that applies no matter if the relationship is vanilla or if it's within the magic of an FLR.
Please pardon the epistle...
take care,

With most of my posts, I aim to encourage conversation... It's always my belief a thread like this approximates a chat in a pub (as it was before the pandemic), chewing the fat, having a drink, with friendly company.

Hence I more than welcome a very thoughtful, inspired, and supportive reply... Thank you Kitschshaman.

It was many years ago... But I do concur with your sentiments... I took a long hard look at myself afterwards... I realised I hated myself... So I stopped dating... A time out... I reconnected with my friends and family (as my time with her was so encompassing/immersive). Eventually I loved my life again, and I valued it. I came to terms my ex and I weren't meant to be.

I did my best to learn from my past... A couple of years later I met my Wife (with the right state of mind), and that was the best day of my life...

I have also been there, and done that. It's hard not to be reeled back in, especially if you really are in love with a woman. In my case, in hindsight, she had a definite thrill about how much power she had to seduce. It was extremely dysfunctional, but we were both young and foolish. We both ended up suffering because of it, but we also both healed our wounds, learned from them and moved on to find better partners and deeper loving relationships. I would never forego honesty, or openness to protect against the risks of being hurt... that would only end up "protecting" you from ever experiencing the full depth and pleasure of a meaningful relationship

my 2cents

I appreciate your support, and points as well naughtymind... Thank you... I suppose we all have that particular (reeled back in) T-shirt... I expect its always going to happen to a submissive person IMHO. I felt like I was her emotional punch bag. I'd feel so emotionally depleted (at it's worst after being with her) when I wasn't with her. And I really didn't know which way was up when I was with her... Fun times!

When I met my Wife it was with an open mind, and no pretexts. It took quite while for both of us (as my Wife had a crappy time previous to me too), but things are really good between us now...