Feminization

[Shadowsdream]

Re: New ideas for reading...

Interesting subject...I wonder have any of you read the book Matriarchy Freedom in Bondage by Malcolm McKesson. It relates so well dealing with the transformation of boy "learning to curb his manly nature." It is supposed to be a semi-autobiography and I found it to be very enlightening on some of the thought process that those interested in feminization go through.

I have not read the book. Would You be interested in discussing one of the thought processes that interested You?
Welcome to the forum and the conversation!

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: New ideas for reading...

i would think dealing with the "manly nature" would be difficult for both parties even if it something the male wants to do. The stretch for control and the release of control would seem, i think, to be a battle.

i've often wondered what it would be like, but between my body type and most photos i've seen, it leaves me hoping for more. The fantasy for me is that i would easily pass. In addition, it seems to me that it is more than clothing and makeup, but mannerisms to include walking, sitting, eating, talking, even lighting a cigarette.

I have never had a battle with the transformations. But have enjoyed watching the freedom of acceptance be the catalyst of a manly nature gladly and fairly easily being shed.
A total transformation (sans a sex change) begins in the mind.

 

[lark sparrow]

I am reading with interest.

I have wondered with ways I have sometimes seen it done if it is somehow thought that it is lower to be a woman - to be truly slutty and degraded. I suppose it can be more freeing for a man to be "sensual" and "soft" presenting a female image, but to consider the extent of being a woman wearing high heels, panties, a wig, make up, painting fingernails and acting out exaggerated "feminine" movements, occasionally makes me wonder how "being a woman" is seen. Is it role play like pony play with a tail and a bit? Parody for humiliation? Freeing the "woman" within? All of these things and more?

I am sure there are many men who cross dress that do indeed revere women, but I must confess to these wonderings at times when the characterization seems so blantantly stereotypical and concerned with the most obvious and fethishized outer layers. Sometimes they appear clownish, as if it's a parody on the "feminine ideal". lol of course I do think Barbie deserves a little ridicule from either sex, but I don't think this is always the desired outcome in cross dressing.

I am enjoying your take on it, Shadowsdream.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: New ideas for reading...

i would think dealing with the "manly nature" would be difficult for both parties even if it something the male wants to do. The stretch for control and the release of control would seem, i think, to be a battle.

I have never experienced a battle either.

Eb

 

[NemoAlia]

I am sure there are many men who cross dress that do indeed revere women, but I must confess to these wonderings at times when the characterization seems so blantantly stereotypical and concerned with the most obvious and fethishized outer layers. Sometimes they appear clownish, as if it's a parody on the "feminine ideal". lol of course I do think Barbie deserves a little ridicule from either sex, but I don't think this is always the desired outcome in cross dressing.

One of my cross-dressing friends has said things about his experiences that make me wonder whether it's a question of 'taking' as much as you can. I mean, most cross-dressers that I know started small, and then built up layers of makeup, underwear, prosthetics, clothes, wigs, and shoes as a way of achieving an increasingly difficult-to-achieve satisfaction.

I don't mean to suggest that cross-dressing is like a drug addiction -- once you start you always want more, More, MORE -- but it does sometimes seem like an issue of pride and experience.

 

[WynEternal]

I am reading with interest.

I have wondered with ways I have sometimes seen it done if it is somehow thought that it is lower to be a woman - to be truly slutty and degraded. I suppose it can be more freeing for a man to be "sensual" and "soft" presenting a female image, but to consider the extent of being a woman wearing high heels, panties, a wig, make up, painting fingernails and acting out exaggerated "feminine" movements, occasionally makes me wonder how "being a woman" is seen. Is it role play like pony play with a tail and a bit? Parody for humiliation? Freeing the "woman" within? All of these things and more?

I am sure there are many men who cross dress that do indeed revere women, but I must confess to these wonderings at times when the characterization seems so blantantly stereotypical and concerned with the most obvious and fethishized outer layers. Sometimes they appear clownish, as if it's a parody on the "feminine ideal". lol of course I do think Barbie deserves a little ridicule from either sex, but I don't think this is always the desired outcome in cross dressing.

I am enjoying your take on it, Shadowsdream.

Interesting perspective. I'm wondering if more males would step up and elaborate on this some.

Having grown up a tomboy, feminine and weak went hand in hand. That, and males having more priveleges.

With Mistress, I never did anything exaggeratingly feminine, but I was feminine none the less. Now, I can actually embrace my femininity without worrying about the ghosts of the past.

Sorry for the ramble...

 

[Shadowsdream]

I am reading with interest.

I have wondered with ways I have sometimes seen it done if it is somehow thought that it is lower to be a woman - to be truly slutty and degraded. I suppose it can be more freeing for a man to be "sensual" and "soft" presenting a female image, but to consider the extent of being a woman wearing high heels, panties, a wig, make up, painting fingernails and acting out exaggerated "feminine" movements, occasionally makes me wonder how "being a woman" is seen. Is it role play like pony play with a tail and a bit? Parody for humiliation? Freeing the "woman" within? All of these things and more?

I am sure there are many men who cross dress that do indeed revere women, but I must confess to these wonderings at times when the characterization seems so blantantly stereotypical and concerned with the most obvious and fethishized outer layers. Sometimes they appear clownish, as if it's a parody on the "feminine ideal". lol of course I do think Barbie deserves a little ridicule from either sex, but I don't think this is always the desired outcome in cross dressing.

I am enjoying your take on it, Shadowsdream.

Feminization when taken past just scening or role play should be done with class and sensitivity. There is no value in creating a clown or a carricature of reality. That is simply degrading which holds no place out of role play.
It should be about sensuality, beauty and deportment with class.
Respectfuly creative and freeing emotionally.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Feminization when taken past just scening or role play should be done with class and sensitivity. There is no value in creating a clown or a carricature of reality. That is simply degrading which holds no place out of role play.
It should be about sensuality, beauty and deportment with class.
Respectfuly creative and freeing emotionally.

What she said.

Eb

 

[Shadowsdream]

One of my cross-dressing friends has said things about his experiences that make me wonder whether it's a question of 'taking' as much as you can. I mean, most cross-dressers that I know started small, and then built up layers of makeup, underwear, prosthetics, clothes, wigs, and shoes as a way of achieving an increasingly difficult-to-achieve satisfaction.

I don't mean to suggest that cross-dressing is like a drug addiction -- once you start you always want more, More, MORE -- but it does sometimes seem like an issue of pride and experience.

It is often that they are not getting the right kind of feedback and help to see how understatement can be so incredibly sexy.
I have many crossdressing friends but one that stands out the most in My mind is a singer who dresses with so much subtle class he could pass for a woman as easily as I can.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Style

I too know one crossdresser, who dresses with beautifully. Also, my sissy dresses well, cause when he is with Me he knows he has to look good!

I pick out sissies attire, and I do his makeup.

 

[Shadowsdream]

The Domme called him Her sheboy.
She loved to walk with him down crowded streets, both knowing his garters could be seen plainly beneath his slacks with each step he took. She loved the way his silk clad ankles shone in the sunlight as they became exposed walking at Her side. The way he would blush when She took him into a lingerie store and discussed panties and bras with him. The smile they shared in crowded restaurants when She had him remove his panties and hand them to Her. Even his slight discomfort sitting at Her side with that unfamiliar naked feeling beneath his slacks gave the Mistress pleasure.

I always adored the cross dressing needs of My ex American sub. I wrote this piece during one of O/Our trips to Chicago.

 

[Goddess Candy]

WynEternal its an older book, published I believe in 96 and Barnes and Noble currently does not carry it, but their webpage did say you could click on a link to see if one of their used book store affiliates carried it.

Thank you Shadowsdream for the warm welcome Well as I stated its a book that is somewhat of an autobiography and the first encounter of his was more or less a kidnapping where he struggles with mixed emotions on how to deal with his desire to please and serve and him seeing the situation as "wrong" basically I presume because of social restraints...

 

[amsubone]

Re: Re: Re: New ideas for reading...

I have never had a battle with the transformations. But have enjoyed watching the freedom of acceptance be the catalyst of a manly nature gladly and fairly easily being shed.
A total transformation (sans a sex change) begins in the mind.

Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry. i was thinking about the learning process, dealing with societal stigmas, and past, learned behaviors and applying that to myself. Even with the desire to experiment i feel a "How could you?" sort of startle on the occasions i've experimented.

 

[lark sparrow]

Feminization when taken past just scening or role play should be done with class and sensitivity. There is no value in creating a clown or a carricature of reality. That is simply degrading which holds no place out of role play.
It should be about sensuality, beauty and deportment with class.
Respectfuly creative and freeing emotionally.

Yes, thank you, that makes sense and sounds almost like a make-over in that it is a transformation with respectful, creative and emotionally freeing intention.

But it also seems a fair amount of humiliation and force is a part of cross dressing for some men. I guess I am trying to understand this part.

If I were put in boxers, a suit and tie, made to carry a breifcase, wear a drawn on moustache, and made to sit with my legs open, drink a beer and belch I don't think I would be humiliated - I would still be me/female, and might even find it amusing for a short time. I'll keep reading.

 

[lark sparrow]

Interesting perspective. I'm wondering if more males would step up and elaborate on this some.

Having grown up a tomboy, feminine and weak went hand in hand. That, and males having more priveleges.

With Mistress, I never did anything exaggeratingly feminine, but I was feminine none the less. Now, I can actually embrace my femininity without worrying about the ghosts of the past.

Sorry for the ramble...

Yes, although I have never been a tomboy persay, I think I had some of the same avoidance of overtly feminine/weak too. Interesting topic, but probably not quite on target to the spirit of the thread. I'd like to hear from the guys too.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I am reading with interest.

I have wondered with ways I have sometimes seen it done if it is somehow thought that it is lower to be a woman - to be truly slutty and degraded. I suppose it can be more freeing for a man to be "sensual" and "soft" presenting a female image, but to consider the extent of being a woman wearing high heels, panties, a wig, make up, painting fingernails and acting out exaggerated "feminine" movements, occasionally makes me wonder how "being a woman" is seen. Is it role play like pony play with a tail and a bit? Parody for humiliation? Freeing the "woman" within? All of these things and more?

I am sure there are many men who cross dress that do indeed revere women, but I must confess to these wonderings at times when the characterization seems so blantantly stereotypical and concerned with the most obvious and fethishized outer layers. Sometimes they appear clownish, as if it's a parody on the "feminine ideal". lol of course I do think Barbie deserves a little ridicule from either sex, but I don't think this is always the desired outcome in cross dressing.

I am enjoying your take on it, Shadowsdream.

I've always been fascinated by the misogyny of drag queens.

 

[Shadowsdream]

WynEternal its an older book, published I believe in 96 and Barnes and Noble currently does not carry it, but their webpage did say you could click on a link to see if one of their used book store affiliates carried it.

Thank you Shadowsdream for the warm welcome Well as I stated its a book that is somewhat of an autobiography and the first encounter of his was more or less a kidnapping where he struggles with mixed emotions on how to deal with his desire to please and serve and him seeing the situation as "wrong" basically I presume because of social restraints...

It is a shame that there is not a larger market to keep the interesting books available in new additions. I have also become intrigued with this volume and will of course keep My eye open for it.
Thank You for the info..it is usually the more commonly known titles that are metioned.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Re: New ideas for reading...

Poor choice of words on my part. Sorry. i was thinking about the learning process, dealing with societal stigmas, and past, learned behaviors and applying that to myself. Even with the desire to experiment i feel a "How could you?" sort of startle on the occasions i've experimented.

Very often the uncertainty is magnified when you try to fullfill your fantasy behind your closed door alone. With no positive feedback or guidance the guilt takes on a furtive magnitude and amplifies each emotion in a semi negative way.
This is ONE of the reasons males with the feminization need turn to Dominants. To have the responsibility for their desires taken from them and they become *forced* to conform.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Yes, thank you, that makes sense and sounds almost like a make-over in that it is a transformation with respectful, creative and emotionally freeing intention.

But it also seems a fair amount of humiliation and force is a part of cross dressing for some men. I guess I am trying to understand this part.

If I were put in boxers, a suit and tie, made to carry a breifcase, wear a drawn on moustache, and made to sit with my legs open, drink a beer and belch I don't think I would be humiliated - I would still be me/female, and might even find it amusing for a short time. I'll keep reading.

A woman being dressed and behaving as a male (sans mustache) would most likely been seen as cute. The attention garnered would be light hearted as she would be treated for her brave silliness. It is unlikely she would notice the texture of the cloth rubbing her body in any sensuos or binding way.

Crossdressing in a D/s mindset is about the entire package that crosses thin lines back and forth. The underlying basis built upon the knowledge that both parties do have a respect and appreciation for the beauty of the desire and the *role playing* cemented with the forcing and humiliation that must flow easily up and down the edge of the sword.
Crossdressing without the D/s, which is very common as well, is generally done in confidence and has no need or desire to stroke it with humilation or force but to have the beauty confirmed and appreciated publically.

 

[rosco rathbone]

One thing I've always fantasized about is the feminization of tomboy females and the tomboyization of femme females. It must have something to do with the act of control rather than the end result.

 

[rosco rathbone]

This is a fascinating book, by famous feminist Andrea Dworkin's "companion" John Stoltenberg, containing his ideas for a new "construction of masculinity". Thinking people interested in feminization will definitely want to check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...3/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-8420303-5015341?v=glance

rizzco =l;{)

 

[Shadowsdream]

One thing I've always fantasized about is the feminization of tomboy females and the tomboyization of femme females. It must have something to do with the act of control rather than the end result.

I find the concepts erotically stimulating Myself.

 

[Shadowsdream]

This is a fascinating book, by famous feminist Andrea Dworkin's "companion" John Stoltenberg, containing his ideas for a new "construction of masculinity". Thinking people interested in feminization will definitely want to check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...3/ref=cm_lm_asin/102-8420303-5015341?v=glance

rizzco =l;{)

Thanks for the additional reading ideas...it is nice to see some new books to delve into rather than the expected recommendations..which are very good to remind people of as well though.
Welcome to the conversation...

 

[rosco rathbone]

I find the concepts erotically stimulating Myself.

Is that you in your "av"?

"You look like a stressed goddess", as the Mickey Rourke character said to the Faye Dunaway character in Barfly.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Is that you in your "av"?

"You look like a stressed goddess", as the Mickey Rourke character said to the Faye Dunaway character in Barfly.

~~grin~~ I probably was stressed..it was a long day of shooting and tormenting the slave who was trying to keep up with both the sun and Myself.
My avs are all of Myself..I tend to change them by mood.
I was feeling reflective when this one was chosen.