ecstaticsub
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Maybe but in my experience carefully worded dirty talk can influence that reaction greatly.
First post - how can man compete with my imagination?
- Thread starter RoseLeaf
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Maybe but in my experience carefully worded dirty talk can influence that reaction greatly.
whisperinginthegrass
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let me first apologize for the response you received from your husband. Respect is not yes dear I do love you. Respect could be in the form or wanting to please the woman you love... not advocating divorce or arguments but He is wrong. you should not be 'happy' with that!
Primalex
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What kind of reaction would you prefer when you don't accept his advances?
What kind of reaction do you offer when he doesn't accept your advances?
Thanks for your response - I am upset at his comment, but I feel lucky to have anyone, so thats where i am ... and isn't the sub ultimately in control? That's what my shrink said, but we didn't get very far on that - guess she wasn't interested in that problem and I don't go anymore ... sorry, I'm boring myself suddenly and don't mean to take up space ...
Thats the response I was waiting for ... and although I love your Avatar, I'm not fond of your comment. Do you have any idea of ... oh, its not important ... besides, i'm confused - verbal abuse vs. dirty talk ... one and the same?
I'm enjoying the reactions via PM - didn't know I would get any at all ...
ecstaticsub
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Verbal abuse and dirty talk one in the same??? WTF? Hell no
Dirty talk goes something like this:
Him- I've been thinking of your sweet pussy all day long
Her- Your hard dick throbbing inside me has kept this sweet pussy wet all day long
Him- Show me..now
Her--Take me, please. I need you, I need your big dick fucking me like no other man can
etc, etc. It sounds a little corny written out but with the right body language and tone of voice, you get the idea. Nothing abusive about that.
And don't even get me started on the "submissives have all the power" topic. (It's total bullshit)
ok, well thats why i'm writing here, to understand ... and sorry about the sub comment ... i don't know ... after almost 24 years of marriage, i find that reading or watching submissive women is what i enjoy and want to be, and can continue to do in my mind ... as i said before, my imagination creates more pleasure than any man ... and not that I haven't thought about women, my desire is to be taken by a man ... my time has come and gone for real life ...
IrisAlthea
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If you have been married for a good while and only just started to talk to him about these fantasies, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels surprised, afraid that your sex life together hasn't been satisfying for you and thus feeling a bit inadequate.
If so, I don't think it's strange if he is sensitive about advances being turned down and wants to point out that he's happy with you, not needing any fantasies and still finding you attractive in a somewhat insensitive way.
These things are hard to talk about without anyone getting defensive and it's easy to think that someone else would be better at living up to your fantasies.
There are often a lot of people offering to live up to those fantasies but real people are always going to have their own fantasies and limits so I don't think there is any way around those difficult talks in need of lots of both tact and honesty if you want a real and close relationship.
Stella_Omega
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That's something people say a lot, but it isn't quite true. A sub is someone who is NOT in control. Who doesn't want to be in control. This might be within certain parameters, and once the person steps outside those parameters they are in control again-- but while they are being submissive they are not the boss.
What your shrink meant, even though she didn't say it right, is the bottom is ultimately in control-- sometimes. When we bottom, we are done unto. by the top, who is the doer. It's possible although not universal, to get done unto in the way we want, not in the way someone else wants, and we are in no way submissive.
Even when we ask to be taken rough and shown no mercy and all of that-- it isn't necessarily submission, it's him doing what you want.
So, one big problem women have while they explore these new ideas and desires, is that they totally feel that all of these ideas have to come from the other partner, or else it's not real.
But that isn't true, either. Him being a service top can be a very good thing for both of you. Nothing to make you feel less, or him either for that matter. Many men are very proud of how good they can make their partner feel. And they should be.
Ahaha, welcome to literotica forums!
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BiBunny
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This will probably not be a popular opinion, but that's never stopped me before.
We don't know the whole story here. And what I am about to say may not apply, but then again, it might.
Let's suppose for a moment that the OP has shared her fantasies with her husband. From the things she's said, I'm going to assume that this is probably the case. I'm also going to assume that he's probably around the same age as or older than she is, so if we're going to give her the benefit of the "middle-aged insecurity" doubt, then we need to give it to him, too.
So maybe what we've got here is an older guy with a declining sex drive who's feeling a little (or a lot) defensive about it. And here's his wife, who's talking to him about all these things and perhaps making him feel even more insecure about his own sexual prowess. Maybe she's even got him feeling like all she ever wants to talk about is sex and her fantasies. (Let me tell you something, folks, that is a shitty feeling when you're in a relationship with someone you love.)
Then, when he tries to initiate sex because he wants it, because he thinks she wants it, or a combination of both, she "doesn't accept his advances," which might make him feel even worse. So he lashes out in childish ways because he's feeling hurt and rejected, which only serves to broaden the gap between the two of them. (Having someone bitch at you about the quantity or quality of sex in your relationship and then flat-out reject you when you attempt to initiate is about the fastest way I can think of to train that person never to try anything new or initiate sex in any way again. This I also know from experience.)
Due to a combination of his own insecurities and what seems to him to be her selfishness, he's not willing to share his own fantasies because he's probably telling himself "Well, they're nothing like her fantasies, and since all she does nowadays is harp on what she wants and blow me off when I try to make a move, then what's the point of telling her what turns me on? She's not going to try it, so why bother?"
Now, I'm not saying this is what happens, nor am I saying that if it is happening that this reaction on his part is ok. I'm just saying it's understandable if that is the case.
Sex is one of those things that people can be extremely sensitive about, and any time one party gets to be too self-centered in their own fantasies and desires, then trouble's a-comin'.
We don't know the whole story here. And what I am about to say may not apply, but then again, it might.
Let's suppose for a moment that the OP has shared her fantasies with her husband. From the things she's said, I'm going to assume that this is probably the case. I'm also going to assume that he's probably around the same age as or older than she is, so if we're going to give her the benefit of the "middle-aged insecurity" doubt, then we need to give it to him, too.
So maybe what we've got here is an older guy with a declining sex drive who's feeling a little (or a lot) defensive about it. And here's his wife, who's talking to him about all these things and perhaps making him feel even more insecure about his own sexual prowess. Maybe she's even got him feeling like all she ever wants to talk about is sex and her fantasies. (Let me tell you something, folks, that is a shitty feeling when you're in a relationship with someone you love.)
Then, when he tries to initiate sex because he wants it, because he thinks she wants it, or a combination of both, she "doesn't accept his advances," which might make him feel even worse. So he lashes out in childish ways because he's feeling hurt and rejected, which only serves to broaden the gap between the two of them. (Having someone bitch at you about the quantity or quality of sex in your relationship and then flat-out reject you when you attempt to initiate is about the fastest way I can think of to train that person never to try anything new or initiate sex in any way again. This I also know from experience.)
Due to a combination of his own insecurities and what seems to him to be her selfishness, he's not willing to share his own fantasies because he's probably telling himself "Well, they're nothing like her fantasies, and since all she does nowadays is harp on what she wants and blow me off when I try to make a move, then what's the point of telling her what turns me on? She's not going to try it, so why bother?"
Now, I'm not saying this is what happens, nor am I saying that if it is happening that this reaction on his part is ok. I'm just saying it's understandable if that is the case.
Sex is one of those things that people can be extremely sensitive about, and any time one party gets to be too self-centered in their own fantasies and desires, then trouble's a-comin'.
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blulilacgrl
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Can I say something? I know that I am recent poster to these boards. And just a week or two ago I posted my own thread asking for help. But the thing that strikes out at me is that I don't think this poster really knows exactly what she wants. I am not saying this in a mean or belittling way. Trust me. Two weeks ago people, I think, were laughing at me for my need for specificity on language and terminology.
But that specificity helped a great deal when I finally did sit down and talk with my DH about what I wanted. I was able to approach him and say "Honey, while our sex life is great and I love you, I have reached a point in my life where I want to explore some new things. I want to do XYZ, and specifically. Now we don't have to do it all at once, but I would at least like to start with ABC and see where it takes us."
Believe it or not being able to sit down and calmly discuss it outside of the bedroom, without the demands or the tension of sex pervading the discussion, we were able to have a reasoned conversation about it. It may sound weird to discuss sex in this manner but when discussing a shift in the way two people have communicated for over 20 years (and yes sex is one of the ways couples communicate) you need to discuss it calmly and carefully. And be careful of the male ego much like the testicles it is a hairy and fragile thing!
Now onto a couple questions?
You want him to talk dirty to you in bed. Do you talk dirty to him? Even in a teasing and light manner?
Ex. mmm..baby do you like that? what do you want sugar? tell me.
Does he talk at all in bed?
Even getting him to start talking at all in bed would be a start. For the first 12 yrs of our marriage my DH didn't say anything, but man when he did begin talking in bed... after a while I was shocked at the things that started coming out of his mouth! Especially after a beer or two.
When he does something that is even remotely akin to what you want, do you respond?
Okay so you want him to manhandle you. When he grips you a little harder than normal, do you respond a little more? Sometimes, some men need to warm up to things. hopefully the more you respond the harder he will grip-- if you see what I mean.
Like I said I am not an expert, but one thing I do know from my own experience is that for some men things need to be slowly introduced. You may want to be tied up, called a slut and whipped until your ass bleeds (I really don't know) but he obviously is not going to get there or do that first time outta the gate.
This is just my opinion, take it, leave it, flush it. But I do understand to a point where you are coming from. I've been married for around 20 years and it took a while to explain how and why I needed our sex life to change. Not because of him, but because of me. That helped, to say that I needed him to help me explore this part of myself.
Good luck!
But that specificity helped a great deal when I finally did sit down and talk with my DH about what I wanted. I was able to approach him and say "Honey, while our sex life is great and I love you, I have reached a point in my life where I want to explore some new things. I want to do XYZ, and specifically. Now we don't have to do it all at once, but I would at least like to start with ABC and see where it takes us."
Believe it or not being able to sit down and calmly discuss it outside of the bedroom, without the demands or the tension of sex pervading the discussion, we were able to have a reasoned conversation about it. It may sound weird to discuss sex in this manner but when discussing a shift in the way two people have communicated for over 20 years (and yes sex is one of the ways couples communicate) you need to discuss it calmly and carefully. And be careful of the male ego much like the testicles it is a hairy and fragile thing!
Now onto a couple questions?
You want him to talk dirty to you in bed. Do you talk dirty to him? Even in a teasing and light manner?
Ex. mmm..baby do you like that? what do you want sugar? tell me.
Does he talk at all in bed?
Even getting him to start talking at all in bed would be a start. For the first 12 yrs of our marriage my DH didn't say anything, but man when he did begin talking in bed... after a while I was shocked at the things that started coming out of his mouth! Especially after a beer or two.
When he does something that is even remotely akin to what you want, do you respond?
Okay so you want him to manhandle you. When he grips you a little harder than normal, do you respond a little more? Sometimes, some men need to warm up to things. hopefully the more you respond the harder he will grip-- if you see what I mean.
Like I said I am not an expert, but one thing I do know from my own experience is that for some men things need to be slowly introduced. You may want to be tied up, called a slut and whipped until your ass bleeds (I really don't know) but he obviously is not going to get there or do that first time outta the gate.
This is just my opinion, take it, leave it, flush it. But I do understand to a point where you are coming from. I've been married for around 20 years and it took a while to explain how and why I needed our sex life to change. Not because of him, but because of me. That helped, to say that I needed him to help me explore this part of myself.
Good luck!
Maybe it's a generational thing.
Might be cultural, too. Working with people from all over the world it amazes me the difference in attitudes, and it is not just about age. Monty Python made a fortune lampooning british uptightness with sex and Indians tend to be very uptight as well (ironic for the culture that gave us the Kama Sutra; they blame the British for the puritanical nature of Indian culture). And of course in the US, we have those reared by certain religious groups, whose main tenet seems to be that sex is something dirty you do with the lights out. I find language like "I don't want to insult you by talking dirty" to be victorian to be honest, ti is the old women are dainty creatures who never have lusty thoughts, etc *sigh*. About the only group I ever saw with that attitude were members of groups like "women against Porn" back in the 80's, who promoted a similarly victorian view of women.....hopefully that is dying it, because fantasies are a great tool for a couple to communicate with and just get damn hot with each other
. Heck, 50 Shades of gray, as bad or good as it is, seems to have sparked some sort of conversation, adult boutiques and bookstores and neighborhood hardware stores are seeing a huge increase in foot traffic and sales because of that book, and it is women coming in mostly t share it with their mates.
Stella_Omega
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BB you could write that entire post switching the sexes, and it would be every bit as true;
So maybe what we've got here is an older gal with a rising sex drive who's feeling a little (or a lot) defensive about it. And here's her husband, who won't let her talk to him about all these things and perhaps making her feel even more insecure about her own sexual needs. Maybe he's even got her feeling like he never wants to talk about sex and fantasies. (Let me tell you something, folks, that is a shitty feeling when you're in a relationship with someone you love.)
Then, she's afraid to initiate sex when she wants it, because she thinks he might refuse her, which let me tell you is devastating-- so much so that most women my age would rather not ever risk the possibility. So she lashes out in childish ways because she's feeling hurt and rejected, which only serves to broaden the gap between the two of them. (Having someone flat-out ignore the quantity or quality of sex in your relationship so that you're pretty sure he'll reject you when you attempt to initiate is about the fastest way I can think of to train that person never to try anything new or initiate sex in any way again. This I also know from experience.)
Due to a combination of her own insecurities and what she knows looks like her own selfishness, she's not willing to share her own fantasies because she's probably telling herself "Well, if I cant communicate the nuances, because when I've tried this before he couldn't even listen till I get to the end of what I was going to say, and when I tried again he blew me off telling me I already told him, then what's the point of telling him what turns me on? He's not going to try it, so why bother?"
Now, I'm not saying this is what happens, nor am I saying that if it is happening that this reaction on her part is ok. I'm just saying it's understandable if that is the case.
Sex is one of those things that people can be extremely sensitive about, and any time one party is perceived to be changing their fantasies and desires when the other doesn't want change, then trouble's a-comin'.
And the one who won't change will usually say the other is being selfish without ever once understanding what they are being selfish about.
So you get put in the oh-so-lovely position of being blamed for committing sins that you actually never have the chance to commit.
You get told that you never talk about anything else, when you've never had the chance to talk at all.
So maybe what we've got here is an older gal with a rising sex drive who's feeling a little (or a lot) defensive about it. And here's her husband, who won't let her talk to him about all these things and perhaps making her feel even more insecure about her own sexual needs. Maybe he's even got her feeling like he never wants to talk about sex and fantasies. (Let me tell you something, folks, that is a shitty feeling when you're in a relationship with someone you love.)
Then, she's afraid to initiate sex when she wants it, because she thinks he might refuse her, which let me tell you is devastating-- so much so that most women my age would rather not ever risk the possibility. So she lashes out in childish ways because she's feeling hurt and rejected, which only serves to broaden the gap between the two of them. (Having someone flat-out ignore the quantity or quality of sex in your relationship so that you're pretty sure he'll reject you when you attempt to initiate is about the fastest way I can think of to train that person never to try anything new or initiate sex in any way again. This I also know from experience.)
Due to a combination of her own insecurities and what she knows looks like her own selfishness, she's not willing to share her own fantasies because she's probably telling herself "Well, if I cant communicate the nuances, because when I've tried this before he couldn't even listen till I get to the end of what I was going to say, and when I tried again he blew me off telling me I already told him, then what's the point of telling him what turns me on? He's not going to try it, so why bother?"
Now, I'm not saying this is what happens, nor am I saying that if it is happening that this reaction on her part is ok. I'm just saying it's understandable if that is the case.
Sex is one of those things that people can be extremely sensitive about, and any time one party is perceived to be changing their fantasies and desires when the other doesn't want change, then trouble's a-comin'.
And the one who won't change will usually say the other is being selfish without ever once understanding what they are being selfish about.
So you get put in the oh-so-lovely position of being blamed for committing sins that you actually never have the chance to commit.
You get told that you never talk about anything else, when you've never had the chance to talk at all.
Stella_Omega
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I like this post much more than mine. 
blulilacgrl
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Oh my god njlauren! I had to laugh at this. My grandmother was the seemingly most uptight "Christian" woman you have ever met and yet to this day every time I think about her I remember her saying...
"Blulilac, I don't understand why people are divorcing so much. I certainly knew how to keep my man happy and it wasn't with my cookin'!"
OMG! I wanted to go throw up and applaud all at the same time. And I don't even want to get into the times she would sit around with her best friend. I swear I have decided that when I get to be 70 I want to be just like her! My best friend agrees that when we are old we shall wear purple and sit around talking about sex!
I like this post much more than mine.
Wow. Thank you Stella. I have really benefited from your postings and find this to be extremely flattering.
BiBunny
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I was in a relationship with a man I loved more than life itself for 5 years. In that time, I learned every nuance of every fantasy he'd ever had throughout his entire life. I helped him live out the majority of them--the ones that were feasible, anyway. He talked about little else but his sexual obsessions to me, for five whole years.
I pointed out to him once near the end that even though I could quote everything that gets him off, verbatim, I couldn't say with certainty what his favorite color was and that I doubted he knew what mine was, either. He seemed...stunned.
I understand, Stella, that both of us are looking at this through lenses colored by our various experiences. I don't know the particulars of what you've been through, but I am sympathetic.
I'm not saying that this is what happened in your case, nor am I saying it's what's happening in the OP's case, but I assure you that it is possible to damage a relationship by focusing too much on the sexual aspects to the point that you alienate the other person by, yes, your own selfishness.
All of the responses have been interesting and thank you for taking the time to offer your opinions. I have to say some of it was hard to read, mostly way too serious, and put me in my place, yes? I started using my imagination as a little girl to survive, and I can continue to do so now, as times are difficult. Unfortunately, I have only the stories I've read describing BDSM to go by, which may or may not accurately describe it properly. I find it frightening and erotic at the same time. Any recommendations? Oh, and please no more invitations to watch you jerk off ... I do like to watch, but prefer interaction and tasteful restraint.
I can relate.
My hubs was never one to actually listen or be interested in what I had to say. He'd ask a question, pause for a nanosecond and then go off on his own tirade. Frustrated and annoyed I just finally said one day, "Do you *really* get off on asking me questions and then filling in your own answer? How much fun is it to have a full blown conversation with yourself? Do you enjoy the sound of your own voice that much? More importantly, are you actually interested in my POV, or are you attempting to teach me how you would like me to answer your question? If it's the latter, this marriage -is never- going to work. I do not function that way, and if you were looking to marry a '50's housewife', you have married the wrong fucking woman."
My own fault over the enitre situation was my obsession with manners, tact and respect. I would just ignore him, his behavior and go about my own business-- completely detached from his feelings. Every so often I'd murder him with the truth, and he'd either have a tantrum (which I found quite funny) or he'd sulk for an age.
He wasn't ready for real communication, and I was sick of trying--that stuff nearly destryoed us.
But the day he told me that he thought I only used him for sex was the feather that crumbled an old institution, and my sardonic laugh echoed through the ruin. Most ridiculous notion I'd ever heard; we've been rebulding ever since. Many of the scenes I am not proud of. Our confusion over the entire situation was relative to the way in which we were both culturally raised--pavlov style.
I do not blame the previous generation whatsoever. We are who we are, and we had to learn to interact in accordance with (using your phrasing) who we are underneath our skins. And we had to do it blind... without example.
We had to stop being impolite and start getting real.
What types of genre catch your interest? Bdsm elements can be found in different novel stylings.
Stella always gives good direction toward the how-to approach if that interests you. These types may just satisfy your inclination to watch.
You may be interested in taking a gander over at the bdsm cafe board, all sorts of goodies over there.
IrisAlthea
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I agree with the bolded part (and the rest of it).
I also think it's important to remember that there are two scared people in a situation like this. As far as we know, only one of them is here telling their story, so we don't get the chance to tell the other person that it is a scary thing to start talking about wants and need and that it's important to answer in a way that doesn't make it to hard on the other person even if you might feel less than positive about the question brought up.
I don't think anyone intended to put you in your place, but yes, people here will usually speak their mind when asked.
Take a look in the library here fore more discussions on different aspects of BDSM. I think there are tips on books to read too.
Stella_Omega
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I'll say we are. What you're talking about has NOTHING to do with the problems of a woman in RoseLeaf's position, living with an old school, controlling, man, unable to walk away and trying to make her situation better.
Matter of fact, the guy you were with sounds pretty controlling.
Primalex
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This.
The long version of the questions I asked her. Unfortunately, she didn't have the time or desire to think properly about my questions. I could have written a long story about what I call "The downward spiral", but with her not-reply I don't feel the obligation to. And as you've written down the core parts of this for her here, I guess it's not necessary for me anymore anyway.
Stella_Omega
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I so hear you. Sex was too important to me, too. I couldn't let it slide.
We need to be able to ask those questions before we commit. It's kind of not done-- we are supposed to think that a matchup in sex is the least important part of a marriage. Everything else should come first. For some people that works-- not for all of us.
desertslave
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I agree! To the point that I've instructed my kids (who are of an age to be thinking about this) that I emphatically expect them to live together with their chosen SO's for at least a year before they even think about considering marriage. I hope for them to have relationships that are so well-established and comfortable for them that marriage itself is almost an afterthought.
Primalex
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My personal recommendation would be 5 years.
The fact that there is no obligation for either one to stay makes you value the relationship when you hit the third year of troubles. If I would have been married at that time, I'm sure I wouldn't have backed down when it was actually necessary.
