FLR (Female Led Relationships)

[IrisAlthea]

Sometimes two people can't see eye to eye on money matters, but in most other things are compatible.

Yes, I can see how that can be the case but I just can’t wrap my head around how it would actually work if there is a big enough difference in perspective.

If they are really irresponsible with money, am I supposed to let them crash and burn if they get in real trouble?
Do we eat different things and take different kinds of vacation?
If they insist on living in a McMansion, do I refuse to pay more toward the living costs than I would have for the size house I found reasonable?
Being married I would still be responsible for their maintenance if they got themselves in financial trouble.

I recently read a question to the family law expert in the paper, where a couple had been separating and getting a divorce and then the husband had changed his mind. The wife had inherited a sum from a parent during the separation and now he wanted to use that for house renovations and a new car.
She was unsure if the money was the reason for his change of heart and wanted to know how she could protect her personal assets(the inheritance).
She got the advice to keep the money separate and requesting receipts and IOUs to keep her personal money from getting tainted by marriage rights.

I just can’t see myself feeling safe and fully committed in cases like that. I’d prefer not to marry and not officially living together, I think.

I realize that I might sound like manosphere blogger, but I promise that I’m not. I just tend to have an oldfashioned view on marriage and commitment in that I take it very seriously and when I start to care about someone, even on a rather casual level, I tend to keep caring, which is why I would find it difficult to impossible to keep things that separated.

This means that my husband gets involved in the amount of shoes and little black dresses needed in a womans life and I need to be aware of the construction of the brake discs of his motorcycle (forged by the dwarves in dragonfire, of rare metals with elven inscriptions as I understand it).
Totally worth it to me though.

 

[policywank]

Sorry. To add onto this, on a personal note do you also have similar incomes? For me personally what you describe is how I’ve always operated. In both of my marriages we just pooled everything although my first marriage was a lesson in making stupid mistakes (although I did learn a lot). In this marriage going on 18plus years my wife and I from the beginning pooled everything and we also have similar incomes, I tend to be the one making the decisions on the expenditures and investments but like you we‘re comfortably off so a lot of the day to day stuff doesn’t matter that much. I will tend to highlight an issue if I see a concerning trend, spending too much on eating out for example. She also tends to ask permission if she’s going to spend money on more luxury type items if its a few hundred, but there is no kink associated with it. I find this stuff very interesting because so many people do it differently, I’m always surprised when I hear from a friend who has been married for over 20 years talk about being it being just his/her money. I always talk about it as our money, irrespective of whose name was on the pay-slip, this was particularly helpful when she took a number of years off from “paid work” when we had children. She does like to refer to one of the cars as my car, which kind of bugs me, and I think she knows it . To be fair though I did want the car and drove the purchase of it (with her approval), and I don’t refer to her jewelry as ours, so I generally let it go. Also for the record she drives “the car“ when ever she wants so its not like it’s exclusively driven etc. Just one last note as I’ve said before I’m a fan of yours and inevitably on some of your posts, especially the more kinkier or sexual there will be a “your partner is so lucky” and absolutely he is, but for the record he sounds awesome and so you’re pretty lucky too. Although we’re just strangers to each other the fact you and your partner exist makes me happy.

I make more than he does but not by a large margin. Neither of us had a significant amount of money when we got married so everything we have we earned together and is treated as pooled. I couldn't really imagine it being any other way. So much of the things we enjoy are shared. I don't see how that would work if I always had the slightly better version of everything. Or had to explicitly subsidize him so he could share equally. Or should I squirrel away extra for luxuries that he doesn't get? Also if you go down that road doesn't that sort of compel you to place a value on all of the little extra things? If I make more but have to work late more often, does he get paid to prepare dinner for me?

I can't imagine that making a bit more would mean that I get to live a little bit better (financially) life while we are together. And at the other end of our relationship is either death or divorce anyway at which point it is all passed on to our heirs in equal measure or we go our separate ways and the court splits it 50/50.

It isn't my intent to criticize people who do split their income/assets. I just can't get my head around doing it and I feel like it is more of a psychological thing which I would find detrimental.

There are things that we refer to as mine or his, but that is driven by who uses that item or has an attachment to it. Again I just can't see saying 'that is mine because I paid for it so you can't have it.' My ski equipment is mine because it is sized for me, but hey if he wants to stuff himself into a ladies size 7 ski boot and strap on skis that are too short for him he is welcome to it, lol.

Thank you for the complement. Yes my husband is a wonderful man and I am lucky to have him. I like to think that I know what he likes so I try to make sure he feels the same way.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

Yes, I can see how that can be the case but I just can’t wrap my head around how it would actually work if there is a big enough difference in perspective.

If they are really irresponsible with money, am I supposed to let them crash and burn if they get in real trouble?
Do we eat different things and take different kinds of vacation?
If they insist on living in a McMansion, do I refuse to pay more toward the living costs than I would have for the size house I found reasonable?
Being married I would still be responsible for their maintenance if they got themselves in financial trouble.

I recently read a question to the family law expert in the paper, where a couple had been separating and getting a divorce and then the husband had changed his mind. The wife had inherited a sum from a parent during the separation and now he wanted to use that for house renovations and a new car.
She was unsure if the money was the reason for his change of heart and wanted to know how she could protect her personal assets(the inheritance).
She got the advice to keep the money separate and requesting receipts and IOUs to keep her personal money from getting tainted by marriage rights.

I just can’t see myself feeling safe and fully committed in cases like that. I’d prefer not to marry and not officially living together, I think.

I realize that I might sound like manosphere blogger, but I promise that I’m not. I just tend to have an oldfashioned view on marriage and commitment in that I take it very seriously and when I start to care about someone, even on a rather casual level, I tend to keep caring, which is why I would find it difficult to impossible to keep things that separated.

This means that my husband gets involved in the amount of shoes and little black dresses needed in a womans life and I need to be aware of the construction of the brake discs of his motorcycle (forged by the dwarves in dragonfire, of rare metals with elven inscriptions as I understand it).
Totally worth it to me though.

Is there a defined amount of women shoes, if so I haven’t seen it. My wife did conclude she had enough bags, but I think this is a temporary pause. All joking aside I love being the encourager or better still the initiator for those things for my wife, she gets so much enjoyment from them.

 

[policywank]

Is there a defined amount of women shoes, if so I haven’t seen it. My wife did conclude she had enough bags, but I think this is a temporary pause. All joking aside I love being the encourager or better still the initiator for those things for my wife, she gets so much enjoyment from them.

Personal interests are so different as well. Even with pooled funds, should the value of shoes I buy match the value of his motorcycle? I can't imagine wanting to calculate that. Within broad parameters we try to maintain a roughly equivalent level of material indulgence that feels "fair", but that is pretty loose.

And how should financial things interact non-financial things. My husband spent a day last weekend entertaining one of my relatives that he really doesn't like (with good reason). It was just one of those things you get stuck doing now and then and he did it (without complaint) so that I could carry on with more enjoyable plans I had with a friend. Out of appreciation I ordered the $800 motorcycle helmet I know he has been coveting. It would be unfair to tick off $800 as his material indulgence and disregard the fact that he took on a burden to allow me an indulgence that didn't cost anything. But then I don't want to start putting a price tag on every positive or negative experience.

I do know a couple who don't share their money. Both people are on their 2nd marriage and a bit wary of the other's preferences and spending habits. They keep a tally of everything, which seems to work for them but seems cold and impersonal to me. It is also a frequent source of disagreement. Eventually one of them started asking the other to pick up a bit more of the household cost because their funds were a bit short. It turned out that the partner picking up extra costs actually had less money than the other partner, but they didn't know that because they keep that information from one another. The other partner who thought they were being generous through their partner's rough patch ended up feeling completely taken advantage of. Basically the partner with more money was the one more likely to splurge on excess, didn't want the other partner trying to constrain that then ended up hoarding their assets to the detriment of the other. It wasn't even that they had spent themselves into a problem, but rather they misled their partner so that they could maintain the flexibility to keep splurging.

 

[Cuckwannabe111]

I have long ached for a FLR. I love my wife dearly, and she shares the sentiment, but has no desire to do a FLR. I guess it will only be a fantasy

 

[Purple_Fronds]

Personal interests are so different as well. Even with pooled funds, should the value of shoes I buy match the value of his motorcycle? I can't imagine wanting to calculate that. Within broad parameters we try to maintain a roughly equivalent level of material indulgence that feels "fair", but that is pretty loose.

And how should financial things interact non-financial things. My husband spent a day last weekend entertaining one of my relatives that he really doesn't like (with good reason). It was just one of those things you get stuck doing now and then and he did it (without complaint) so that I could carry on with more enjoyable plans I had with a friend. Out of appreciation I ordered the $800 motorcycle helmet I know he has been coveting. It would be unfair to tick off $800 as his material indulgence and disregard the fact that he took on a burden to allow me an indulgence that didn't cost anything. But then I don't want to start putting a price tag on every positive or negative experience.

I do know a couple who don't share their money. Both people are on their 2nd marriage and a bit wary of the other's preferences and spending habits. They keep a tally of everything, which seems to work for them but seems cold and impersonal to me. It is also a frequent source of disagreement. Eventually one of them started asking the other to pick up a bit more of the household cost because their funds were a bit short. It turned out that the partner picking up extra costs actually had less money than the other partner, but they didn't know that because they keep that information from one another. The other partner who thought they were being generous through their partner's rough patch ended up feeling completely taken advantage of. Basically the partner with more money was the one more likely to splurge on excess, didn't want the other partner trying to constrain that then ended up hoarding their assets to the detriment of the other. It wasn't even that they had spent themselves into a problem, but rather they misled their partner so that they could maintain the flexibility to keep splurging.

Agreed it doesn’t seem healthy to me, but like you I know lots that do it and it seems to work for them. There’s of course exceptions such as those that Iris points out, but then its more of a winding down exercise so it might make sense to protect yourself and that’s a different issue entirely.

We don’t tally at all, and I get a lot of pleasure in getting her something like an expensive handbag, that she wouldn’t buy herself. To stress though this is both our money so it’s not like I’m drawing just from my resources. Our issue is that neither of us provide much restraint on the other, we’re just both “do it” types. Which can be a problem. I personally don’t typically need anything which I realize makes it harder for my wife and therefore would never be even. We have an occasion coming up and the talk of getting each other presents came up. I can think of a few different things to get her but not much that she can get me, this is my fault though not hers.

I did have a little fit several years ago about getting a “fun” car, but this wasn’t really anything do with my wife so much as it was mostly about my frustration at myself and how hard we both worked and that the majority was spent on our kids. Anyway I bought the car, my wife was supportive and we both really enjoy it and now we just go on drives together, so it worked out well. What’s funny is I get quite a lot of remarks about this car mostly from the men in the couple friends we have. I find it amusing because they’re quite a bit wealthier than us, are obviously envious and clearly want the same but can’t bring themselves to do it. On the rare occasion that I respond and tell them to go and get one as they clearly want to, they like to imply it’s their wife but I think it’s a prison of their own making.

I like the helmet story it’s just nice to show appreciation for what our loved ones do for us.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Is there a defined amount of women shoes

I can’t fnd the infinity symbol on my phone keyboard and infinity is a tricky beast anyway when we are talking about
”defined”.
I just go with:
if amount of shoes finite
then add another pair of shoes

With age and space confinenents I’m beginning to think it should be approached more philosophically, to find the optimal number for rhe exact moment in time.

It’s complicated.

The other partner who thought they were being generous through their partner's rough patch ended up feeling completely taken advantage of. Basically the partner with more money was the one more likely to splurge on excess, didn't want the other partner trying to constrain that then ended up hoarding their assets to the detriment of the other. It wasn't even that they had spent themselves into a problem, but rather they misled their partner so that they could maintain the flexibility to keep splurging

I’ve had this happen with friends, where it turned out that their definition of broke was ”no money left after putting away our usual amounts in different savings”.
I for sure wouldn’t feed my kids exclusively on oatmeal while still putting away money for ”wants” rather than needs, so we tried to help as we could, definiteley foregoing putting anything away for ”wants”.
Live and learn I guess, but not a fun lesson.

 

[policywank]

I think that the independence thing is one matter - I don't quite relate but I understand. To each their own.

Equality is a bit of a different matter. Of course I believe that all people and partners are equal. But that doesn't necessarily mean that managing every aspect of ones life together should be done equally and in unison. Most groups or organizations are built around someone having a leadership role - not because they are better or superior but because someone has to lead the way.

This may sound surprising coming from me, but the traditional model of splitting responsibilities between husband and wife was highly functional. The problem lay in the pre-determination of male and female roles. As society moved away from that model there was a feminist rooted tendency to say each partner needs to be equal in all things. That makes no sense to me. I believe that we should find the equilibrium that suits our unique personalities without pre-determination.

An FLR like my marriage is a good example in my view. We play different roles based upon what suits us. That is way more functional than me getting involved in stuff I don't enjoy and creating friction with my husband to chart a path based upon equal input and vice versa.

Likewise equality in financial matters can be a wasteful. If my husband really wants that $800 helmet and I don't have any burning want at that time, we should just buy the helmet and leave it at that. Me buying something for which I don't have the same strong desire just to level up is silly. And by virtue of the FLR I am in a position to manage things in this rationale way without each of us needing to debate what is appropriate or equal.

Also to the extent that there is equality in a relationship it is - at best - something that averages out over time. But reality is that sometimes equality isn't there because we have different needs, aptitudes, capacity or desires. As long as we are not selfishly disregarding our partners perspective, always needing to balance the books so to speak is not necessary.

 

[StoneDiva]

I had never heard the term FLR until I saw this thread a month or so ago but it's exactly the relationship I have with my partner. We met after each had been divorced from spouses of over 20 years and have been together for four years now. A year into our relationship she purchased a second home in a warmer latitude and asked me to retire early from my job so that we could spend winters there together. I accepted her offer and now we are in our third winter as Snowbirds. I sold my house in the north because hers is newer and larger and she continues to work while I take care of cooking, cleaning, and maintaining both houses, and spending time pursuing my passions. She is 10 years younger than me and wants to retire but is unwilling to give up her income just yet. She was the first to use the term "sugar mama" and sometimes teasingly calls me her "boy toy". She has even called me her wife on occasion which honestly turns me on.

On our very first date she told me that she and her ex had been involved in the swinger lifestyle for over a decade and that she was still attending weekly parties with a group that had embraced her after her divorce. She was also seeing other men solo during the week. I was on a roll of my own and dating several different women. I had tried unsuccessfully to get my ex into the lifestyle for years so was immediately intrigued, but when I mentioned my willingness to swing with her she told me that she wanted to keep that as her own thing. I was disappointed, but sex with her was amazing from the start and as cuckolding was one of my fantasies I enjoyed hearing her wild stories about the men she had fucked the night before.

We continued to see each other on Saturday nights and even went on a few trips together, for about six months while we both continued to fuck other people on our own. There were some things that happened to her at parties that made her decide she wanted to leave the lifestyle and pursue a monogamous vanilla relationship with me and we have been exclusive ever since. She is the most amazing lover I've ever been with and she says that none of the 50 other men she's been with could make her come. I have been open about my kinks and fantasies with her. She knows that I'm bi and have had experiences with men and would again if she allowed it. She knows that I fantasize about her cuckolding me and exploring a D/s dynamic with her. She also knows that I have the desire to cross dress and have her peg me. She knows that I would try anything she wants, but she says that she only wants me and is not interested in dominating or cuckolding me, those are my kinks not hers. She does however occasionally tease me about pegging and spanking me after she's had a few drinks, which gives me a sli of hope, but I have resigned myself to being the best partner and lover to her that I can. That is how I ultimately submit to her desires.

 

[SlutAddicted]

I had never heard the term FLR until I saw this thread a month or so ago but it's exactly the relationship I have with my partner. We met after each had been divorced from spouses of over 20 years and have been together for four years now. A year into our relationship she purchased a second home in a warmer latitude and asked me to retire early from my job so that we could spend winters there together. I accepted her offer and now we are in our third winter as Snowbirds. I sold my house in the north because hers is newer and larger and she continues to work while I take care of cooking, cleaning, and maintaining both houses, and spending time pursuing my passions. She is 10 years younger than me and wants to retire but is unwilling to give up her income just yet. She was the first to use the term "sugar mama" and sometimes teasingly calls me her "boy toy". She has even called me her wife on occasion which honestly turns me on.

On our very first date she told me that she and her ex had been involved in the swinger lifestyle for over a decade and that she was still attending weekly parties with a group that had embraced her after her divorce. She was also seeing other men solo during the week. I was on a roll of my own and dating several different women. I had tried unsuccessfully to get my ex into the lifestyle for years so was immediately intrigued, but when I mentioned my willingness to swing with her she told me that she wanted to keep that as her own thing. I was disappointed, but sex with her was amazing from the start and as cuckolding was one of my fantasies I enjoyed hearing her wild stories about the men she had fucked the night before.

We continued to see each other on Saturday nights and even went on a few trips together, for about six months while we both continued to fuck other people on our own. There were some things that happened to her at parties that made her decide she wanted to leave the lifestyle and pursue a monogamous vanilla relationship with me and we have been exclusive ever since. She is the most amazing lover I've ever been with and she says that none of the 50 other men she's been with could make her come. I have been open about my kinks and fantasies with her. She knows that I'm bi and have had experiences with men and would again if she allowed it. She knows that I fantasize about her cuckolding me and exploring a D/s dynamic with her. She also knows that I have the desire to cross dress and have her peg me. She knows that I would try anything she wants, but she says that she only wants me and is not interested in dominating or cuckolding me, those are my kinks not hers. She does however occasionally tease me about pegging and spanking me after she's had a few drinks, which gives me a sli of hope, but I have resigned myself to being the best partner and lover to her that I can. That is how I ultimately submit to her desires.

That is a lovely story. It is great that you are able to be honest with her without being pushy all while enjoying and appreciating the best aspects of your relationship.

 

[StoneDiva]

That is a lovely story. It is great that you are able to be honest with her without being pushy all while enjoying and appreciating the best aspects of your relationship.

Thank you. I do like to gently push in a playful way. A few nights ago as we were getting ready for bed she noticed a blood spot on my pillow from a small cut on my cheek and commented that I must sleep with my face in the pillow. I replied, "My face will be in the pillow when you do me with a strap on!", to which she quickly countered with, "One of these days I'll get rowdy, and I know you'll be ready for me when I do." I simply said, "I can't wait.", and left it at that but inside I was celebrating. We have many playful exchanges like that which give me hope but I still try not to push too hard.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Thank you. I do like to gently push in a playful way. A few nights ago as we were getting ready for bed she noticed a blood spot on my pillow from a small cut on my cheek and commented that I must sleep with my face in the pillow. I replied, "My face will be in the pillow when you do me with a strap on!", to which she quickly countered with, "One of these days I'll get rowdy, and I know you'll be ready for me when I do." I simply said, "I can't wait.", and left it at that but inside I was celebrating. We have many playful exchanges like that which give me hope but I still try not to push too hard.

You seem to have found the right balance. Sometimes men will try to get at this sort of things by dropping hints or being passive aggressive in a way that is off putting - like they think their wife doesn't understand exactly what they are doing. Whereas you are being playful, she does know exactly what you are doing and she is playing along, so you aren't pushing her.

Presumably if you were pushing it too far she might start to get irritated by that and you would know that from her reaction. Sounds like if that was the case you would know to dial it back. A lot of guys just get frustrated and revert to "why won't she take the hint" or just start pushing harder. They fail to realize that their partner knows exactly what they are doing and just doesn't want to take the hint.

 

[Tayloroc]

You seem to have found the right balance. Sometimes men will try to get at this sort of things by dropping hints or being passive aggressive in a way that is off putting - like they think their wife doesn't understand exactly what they are doing. Whereas you are being playful, she does know exactly what you are doing and she is playing along, so you aren't pushing her.

Presumably if you were pushing it too far she might start to get irritated by that and you would know that from her reaction. Sounds like if that was the case you would know to dial it back. A lot of guys just get frustrated and revert to "why won't she take the hint" or just start pushing harder. They fail to realize that their partner knows exactly what they are doing and just doesn't want to take the hint.

Ah. That’s well put

 

[Will527]

I think an FLR is a perfect relationship for many of us men because we are willing to sacrifice control for the privilege of getting sex, or sexual treatment, as we desire. There are some things, such as financial decisions that should be shared and agreed upon, but otherwise, women have what we want and they should get what they want, often. Lafies - agree with me? Marry me and take me home. PM me and FL me?

 

[lisaharlot]

While these types of relationships can be as fetishized and campy, and certainly have as many varied ways of living them as there are people to imagine doing so, it seems strange/odd that they are so rarely discussed....

I think there are plenty of couples living FLR and not even getting it a name. It may not even have a BDSM component. If he’s got a high stress lifestyle and she’s facing sexism at work, it may be that she wants control in her life for her mental health and he needs less for his. She made not be turning him over her knee (poor guy) but I bet he’s got nail scratches down his back.

 

[shymalea]

i allways hated it when i heard friends&colleagues talking about their wife or other women like they were some things made for their personal pleasure,forced to do what they wanted.It,s a bit better now,more women are not affraid anymore to say what they like or want from their husband,i loved it to be obedient&submissive since my first girlfriend,to be a obedient submissive sissy in my personal life to my wife is the best that happened to me,and i love doing it,she wants i do it for every woman who would like it

 

[NancyPan]

I asked my wife to take control of the household and my orgasms several years ago. We have always had an active and fulfilling sex life, had role-played some Femdom scenes (especially while on vacation), and she knew that I was turned on by orgasm denial and submission. I found, edited to make it more personal, and gave her an article on The Psychology of The Submissive Male.

We had a couple long talks. She agreed to try it for a month.

At the end of the month she agreed to continue if I accepted two conditions: She would never again clean another toilet or bathroom, and she was done with PIV sex.

I was shocked by the second condition, and hurt when she told me her reasons, but I agreed. It has been several years and we both are much happier. We make all major decisions together, I handle money and investments like I always have, and she has taught me how to do housework to her standards.

Some days I feel like I am living a dream!

 

[NancyPan]

Yes. My friends would laugh, too, and be amazed — but, I bet I get more pussy than all of them do. Just that my face is buried in pussy very often.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I had not heard or at least wasn’t familiar with the term FLR before I came to Lit. I was recently speaking with a friend on here about his FLR and it piqued my interest.

On a recent trip with my wife I asked her if she was familiar with the term. She was like FLR? I said yes, Female Led Relationship.

She smirked then said, “what the hell you think we’ve been doing for 35 yrs!”

 

[NancyPan]

She smirked then said, “what the hell you think we’ve been doing for 35 yrs!”

Interesting point. And of course many women do lead without formalizing it as a FLR. My wife and I have talked about how we observe this in some couples we socialize with.

However, what separates us, and makes the relationship more intimate, is that she controls my orgasms, and most often sex includes her orgasm(s) and my denial. Plus, there are other rituals and rules, like starting each day with my kneeling to kiss her ass and others. There are benefits to formalizing it. Sounds like your wife might be amenable. Good luck! It’s wonderful!

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Interesting point. And of course many women do lead without formalizing it as a FLR. My wife and I have talked about how we observe this in some couples we socialize with.

However, what separates us, and makes the relationship more intimate, is that she controls my orgasms, and most often sex includes her orgasm(s) and my denial. Plus, there are other rituals and rules, like starting each day with my kneeling to kiss her ass and others. There are benefits to formalizing it. Sounds like your wife might be amenable. Good luck! It’s wonderful!

Having not been exposed to any formalized FLR rituals its interesting and something we’d have to do some research on.

I’m guessing we’re probably one of those couples that sort of do it without even knowing it. It’s funny as we continually jockey for positions of power in our relationship, with her coming out on top mostly!

 

[Goldenfinger]

Separating expectations from the fantasy is one of the big keys to success.

If you don’t then you set yourself up for failure and disappointment.

 

[NancyPan]

It’s funny as we continually jockey for positions of power in our relationship, with her coming out on top mostly!

I believe that if you ask her for a one month trial of starting each day by kissing her ass and pledging your submission to her, all jockeying for position will end. It will be clear that She is in charge! You both will be happier!

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I believe that if you ask her for a one month trial of starting each day by kissing her ass and pledging your submission to her, all jockeying for position will end. It will be clear that She is in charge! You both will be happier!

Hmmmm…

Might not even ask. Just start to do it, see how she reacts? As sexually liberated as she is, she’s quite naive about the fetish side of the world.

 

[NancyPan]

Suit yourself, but I am an advocate of putting cards on the table and being straightforward about what you want. If you want to submit, tell her. Why be “stealth” about it?