For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[RandyRebecca]

I've always wondered why people insist that NATO being next door to Russia was the issue

Really? How would you like military troops and bases from the Warsaw Pact in Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, Chinese war ships patrolling the west coast and Russian war ships patrolling the east coast? Do you think that would be "no issue"? NATO have surrounded Russia and China in all directions ever since Obama's "Pivot to Asia".

...yet why isn't the opposite also a legitimate complaint for NATO? If Russia takes over border countries, they would literally be putting themselves next to NATO.

Yes, but Ukraine is right next to Russia geographically (like Canada and Mexico is to the US), while the US is on the other side of the world. NATO is just a front for US imperialism into the European continent, initially a capitalist-imperialist front against the Soviet Union and communism, but now against capitalist Russia.

 

[ll74]

Really? How would you like military troops and bases from the Warsaw Pact in Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela, Chinese war ships patrolling the west coast and Russian war ships patrolling the east coast? Do you think that would be "no issue"? NATO have surrounded Russia and China in all directions ever since Obama's "Pivot to Asia".

Lol

Yes, but Ukraine is right next to Russia geographically (like Canada and Mexico is to the US), while the US is on the other side of the world. NATO is just a front for US imperialism into the European continent, initially a capitalist-imperialist front against the Soviet Union and communism, but now against capitalist Russia.

And Poland is next to Ukraine geographically. If you don't want NATO next to you...probably shouldn't take over a country next to NATO

 

[RandyRebecca]

Lol

Are you okay with them doing that, and would you see it as "no issue" for the US? Thought not. That is what NATO has been doing to Russia for years and years, after saying to Gorbachev over 30 years ago that they wouldn't advance further eastwards. Admittedly, Gorbachev was an idiot, and a traitor to his side, to believe such nonsense.

And Poland is next to Ukraine geographically. If you don't want NATO next to you...probably shouldn't take over a country next to NATO

Poland themselves have some imperialist designs on a part of western Ukraine. There's a prominent city currently in western Ukraine that has had many different names and spellings over the years, Lviv (Ukraine), Lvov (Soviet Union), Lwow (Poland) and Lemberg (Germany). Poland wouldn't mind seeing Lwow back in their country like in between the two world wars.

 

[ll74]

Are you okay with them doing that, and would you see it as "no issue" for the US? Thought not. That is what NATO has been doing to Russia for years and years, after saying to Gorbachev over 30 years ago that they wouldn't advance further eastwards. Admittedly, Gorbachev was an idiot, and a traitor to his side, to believe such nonsense.

I think Ukraine should join whatever alliance they want to. NATO is a defensive alliance. Of people wish to join it, then they should.

Poland themselves have some imperialist designs on a part of western Ukraine. There's a prominent city currently in western Ukraine that has had many different names and spellings over the years, Lviv (Ukraine), Lvov (Soviet Union), Lwow (Poland) and Lemberg (Germany). Poland wouldn't mind seeing Lwow back in their country like in between the two world wars.

Sovereign nations can interact how they see fit.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I think Ukraine should join whatever alliance they want to. NATO is a defensive alliance. Of people wish to join it, then they should.

Russia sent messages to NATO for a long time, that they wouldn't accept Ukraine going into NATO or doing EU trade deals ahead of Russian trade deals, at least not with the Black Sea coast and Crimea factor. It's a red line, just as the Monroe doctrine has long been for the US on the Americas continent. Russia's Black Sea naval fleet has always been based at Crimea. Crimea was a part of Russia until it was transferred to Ukraine in 1954. Both Russia and Ukraine were a part of the Soviet Union then, of course. Did you, the US authorities in Obama's time, or anyone else, honestly expect Russia to merely accept Crimea falling into the control of hostile anti-Russian forces from Kiev after the Euromaidan coup?

NATO was provoking Russia over Georgia too a while back (Georgia the former Soviet state, that is), resulting in the Russo-Georgian war of 2008.

 

[ll74]

Russia sent messages to NATO for a long time, that they wouldn't accept Ukraine going into NATO or doing EU trade deals ahead of Russian trade deals, at least not with the Black Sea coast and Crimea factor. It's a red line, just as the Monroe doctrine has long been for the US on the Americas continent. Russia's Black Sea naval fleet has always been based at Crimea. Crimea was a part of Russia until it was transferred to Ukraine in 1954. Both Russia and Ukraine were a part of the Soviet Union then, of course. Did you, the US authorities in Obama's time, or anyone else, honestly expect Russia to merely accept Crimea falling into the control of hostile anti-Russian forces from Kiev after the Euromaidan coup?

So Ukraine isn't a part of NATO, but it's cool if Russia takes over land close to NATO. Of course. What land has NATO taken over? None?

You consistently echo Russian talking points

NATO was provoking Russia over Georgia too a while back (Georgia the former Soviet state, that is), resulting in the Russo-Georgian war of 2008.

Russia took Georgia without any action from NATO. All that NATO did was support the Georgian people who wanted to be independent

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Who is better off today compared to February 2022?

You asked and I answered already.

Who is closer to their main goals?

Oh now a new question, so who is "their"? Russia, Ukraine, Botswana, there are 194 possible "their"s?

 

[Rightguide]

Lol..holy fuck reading is difficult for you (not to mention math)

You failed math word problems in school, obviously

So tell us why?

 

[Rightguide]

Meanwhile, that sentence parrots Russian talking points.

So tell us how Crooke is incorrect. Explain as well how he is a Russian tool.

 

[ll74]

So tell us why?

Tell you why you can't understand words? I'm guessing school

(Hint: there's no reason to tell you why when the premise of your statement is incorrect)

So why hasn't Ukraine achieved a victory when they allegedly only face 13% of the Russian Army?

 

[ll74]

So tell us how Crooke is incorrect. Explain as well how he is a Russian tool.

Talking of NATO failing at a war that NATO isn't fighting.

I never said he was a Russian tool....I said he is parroting Russian talking points. (And as an extension, so are you)

 

[Rightguide]

Talking of NATO failing at a war that NATO isn't fighting.

I never said he was a Russian tool....I said he is parroting Russian talking points. (And as an extension, so are you)

No, he isn't and neither am I. They are just facts on the ground. Reported by people who are there and who have contacts there. Keep listening to that Democrat press as they try their best to cover for the absolute failure you voted for.

 

[ll74]

No, he isn't and neither am I. They are just facts on the ground. Reported by people who are there and who have contacts there. Keep listening to that Democrat press as they try their best to cover for the absolute failure you voted for.

He is and so are you. I already pointed out the exact point that is being promoted by Russia which you posted.

The people who are there understand that Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is defending itself against those invaders. The analysis you posted was by a retired MI6 guy who is retired and at home.

Russia has said the only path to peace is for Ukraine to completely capitulate to Russia.

Your BDS isn't my issue.

And I certainly don't restrict news content to any ideology. I even read the shit you post.

 

[Rightguide]

He is and so are you. I already pointed out the exact point that is being promoted by Russia which you posted.

The people who are there understand that Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is defending itself against those invaders. The analysis you posted was by a retired MI6 guy who is retired and at home.

Russia has said the only path to peace is for Ukraine to completely capitulate to Russia.

Your BDS isn't my issue.

And I certainly don't restrict news content to any ideology. I even read the shit you post.

He's not just some "retired M16 guy" you dope. He's a former British diplomat and a highly respected voice on international affairs, foreign policy, and conflict. You can think what you want but he has a lot of foreign policy experience and knowledge. That doesn't mean you have to ween yourself off the delusions of the Deep State press. I just put it out there as an alternative viewpoint. I know you hate those but tough shit.

Alastair Crooke​

Home / Team / Alastair Crooke
Director “Conflicts Forum”
Director and Founder of Conflicts Forum based in Beirut. He was formerly advisor on Middle East issues to Javier Solana, the EU Foreign Policy Chief. He also was a staff member of Senator George Mitchell’s Fact Finding Committee that inquired into the causes of the Intifada (2000-2001) and was adviser to the International Quartet. He facilitated various ceasefires in the Occupied Territories and the withdrawal of occupying forces on 2 occasions. Alastair has had 20 years’ experience working with Islamist movements, and has extensive experience working with movements such as Hamas, Hezbollah and other Islamist movements in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Middle East. He is a member of the UN’s Alliance of Civilization’s Global Experts. His book, Resistance: The Essence of the Islamist Revolution was published in February 2009 and he is a frequent contributor in the international press, both writing articles and TV and radio commentary.

 

[ll74]

He's not just some "retired M16 guy" you dope. He's a former British diplomat and a highly respected voice on international affairs, foreign policy, and conflict. You can think what you want but he has a lot of foreign policy experience and knowledge. That doesn't mean you have to ween yourself off the delusions of the Deep State press. I just put it out there as an alternative viewpoint. I know you hate those but tough shit.

Alastair Crooke​

Home / Team / Alastair Crooke
Director “Conflicts Forum”
Director and Founder of Conflicts Forum based in Beirut. He was formerly advisor on Middle East issues to Javier Solana, the EU Foreign Policy Chief. He also was a staff member of Senator George Mitchell’s Fact Finding Committee that inquired into the causes of the Intifada (2000-2001) and was adviser to the International Quartet. He facilitated various ceasefires in the Occupied Territories and the withdrawal of occupying forces on 2 occasions. Alastair has had 20 years’ experience working with Islamist movements, and has extensive experience working with movements such as Hamas, Hezbollah and other Islamist movements in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Middle East. He is a member of the UN’s Alliance of Civilization’s Global Experts. His book, Resistance: The Essence of the Islamist Revolution was published in February 2009 and he is a frequent contributor in the international press, both writing articles and TV and radio commentary.

Yes, you already posted his bio. I see all the viewpoints, including the ones of Russia....which is why I see when you post shit that mirrors their statements.

Your bias is well documented.

 

[Rightguide]

Yes, you already posted his bio. I see all the viewpoints, including the ones of Russia....which is why I see when you post shit that mirrors their statements.

Your bias is well documented.

Your plugged ears to informed content are noted as well.

 

[ll74]

Your plugged ears to informed content are noted as well.

My ears are wide open...which is why I know Russian shit is coming from your analysts.

 

[Rightguide]

My ears are wide open...which is why I know Russian shit is coming from your analysts.

Your ears are open only to Deep State propaganda. They know they made a mistake but can't say so, especially in an election year. You are being lied to. Just as you were about Iran and Afghanistan

 

[ll74]

Your ears are open only to Deep State propaganda. They know they made a mistake but can't say so, especially in an election year. You are being lied to. Just as you were about Iran and Afghanistan

Rt.com posted about NATO today and Saturday.

Weird.

 

[Rightguide]

Rt.com posted about NATO today and Saturday.

Weird.

Putin issued a statement a day or so ago that went largely unreported. I saw it only on Newsmax. He said Biden was delusional about Russian intentions regarding NATO. Of course, our MSM can't trumpet anything that points to Joe's delusional mental condition.

 

[ll74]

Putin issued a statement a day or so ago that went largely unreported. I saw it only on Newsmax. He said Biden was delusional about Russian intentions regarding NATO. Of course, our MSM can't trumpet anything that points to Joe's delusional mental condition.

Putin is an autocratic dictator. He just filed to be king in another laughable excuse.for an election.

 

[Lazaran]

Putin issued a statement a day or so ago that went largely unreported. I saw it only on Newsmax. He said Biden was delusional about Russian intentions regarding NATO. Of course, our MSM can't trumpet anything that points to Joe's delusional mental condition.

^
(Quotes for posterity and stupidity)

Putin also issued a statement saying the U.S. was delusional about a planned Russian invasion of Ukraine.



Time to STFU RussiaGuide



RussiaGuide

 

[ShandyLeer]

US going to lose no end of military and diplomatic credibility if this turns into a Russian victory.

 

[ll74]

Estonia has a plan.

Estonia’s War Plan: Allied Unity - Kill Russians - Ensure Ukrainian Victory​

​

Tallin voices a simple war strategy: kill or wound Russia’s soldiers and destroy its military hardware faster than the Kremlin can mobilize replacements, and the war will end by 2026.

 

[Rightguide]

You know it's over when the WaPo removes its "Ukraine War" header on its home page. It used to be right next to "Opinions."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/