For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[RandyRebecca]

So Ukranians agreed with the decision not to proceed.

Democracy!

Zelensky was right.

The Euromaidan regime is in power precisely because of a contempt for democracy and illegalizing at least 11 opposition parties.

 

[ll74]

What's Russia Planning - The Dispatch https://thedispatch.com/podcast/remnant/whats-russia-planning/

Carolina Herd from - THE KREMLIN'S OCCUPATION PLAYBOOK: COERCED RUSSIFICATION AND ETHNIC CLEANSING IN OCCUPIED UKRAINE discussed her piece

 

[ll74]

The Euromaidan regime is in power precisely because of a contempt for democracy and illegalizing at least 11 opposition parties.

Incorrect

 

[RandyRebecca]

Incorrect

Your denial of reality is strong.

 

[ll74]

Your denial of reality is strong.

Incorrect.

Ukraine is defending their invaders.

Russia are the Invaders who have NO CLAIM to Ukraine.

Ukraine is a sovereign country who is not required to capitulate to their invaders.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Incorrect.

Ukraine is defending their invaders.

The current government regime/state in Ukraine got there by overthrowing democracy.

Russia are the Invaders who have NO CLAIM to Ukraine.

And the US/NATO?

Ukraine is a sovereign country who is not required to capitulate to their invaders.

71.48% of Ukrainian voters in 1991 voted to stay in the Soviet Union. Only the 3 provinces of Ukraine around the city of Lemberg/Lwow/Lvov/Lviv voted against. Guess what happened?

 

[ll74]

The current government regime/state in Ukraine got there by overthrowing democracy.

Zelensky was overwhelmingly elected into office.

And the US/NATO?

Aren't invading and replacing Ukranians. The forced deportations are fun as well

71.48% of Ukrainian voters in 1991 voted to stay in the Soviet Union. Only the 3 provinces of Ukraine around the city of Lemberg/Lwow/Lvov/Lviv voted against. Guess what happened?

92.3% of voters voted for independence. Whether a small portion didn't like it is irrelevant.

 

[ll74]

Adding to my previous comment:

The Forcible Transfer and Deportation of Ukrainian Children by Russia: Search for Solutions​

This is one of multiple independent sources on the topic.

For alternative views, you can read rt.com or listen to Putin

 

[RandyRebecca]

Zelensky was overwhelmingly elected into office.

The Euromaidan coup from 2014. Look it up. The pre-coup ruling party in Ukraine (Party of Regions) was suppressed and later banned, and the Communist Party of Ukraine was banned and its assets sequestered by the Ukrainian state. At least 11 parties banned. That is not "democracy", but destroying democracy.

92.3% of voters voted for independence. Whether a small portion didn't like it is irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum#In_participating_republics

 

[ll74]

The Euromaidan coup from 2014. Look it up. The pre-coup ruling party in Ukraine (Party of Regions) was suppressed and later banned, and the Communist Party of Ukraine was banned and its assets sequestered by the Ukrainian state. At least 11 parties banned. That is not "democracy", but destroying democracy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum#In_participating_republics

I get that you don't like the coup.

It happened. And then they had an election and Zelensky won.

 

[RandyRebecca]

I get that you don't like the coup.

It happened. And then they had an election and Zelensky won.

The coup destroyed democracy in Ukraine.

In 1991, 71.48% of Ukraine's voters voted in favour of a statement which asked:

"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"

And what is the state of Ukraine since the Euromaidan coup of 2014? Ultra-Ukrainian nationalism, neonazism, Russophobia, attacks on the Russian language, all sorts of sectarian violence and war. A sickening contempt for the democratic wishes from 1991, wouldn't you agree?

 

[ll74]

The coup destroyed democracy in Ukraine.

Which is why they held elections

In 1991, 71.48% of Ukraine's voters voted in favour of a statement which asked:

"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"

And what is the state of Ukraine since the Euromaidan coup of 2014? Ultra-Ukrainian nationalism, neonazism, Russophobia, attacks on the Russian language, all sorts of sectarian violence and war. A sickening contempt for the democratic wishes from 1991, wouldn't you agree?

In 1991 93% voted for independence.

Keep trying to make it something else... Just like Putin who blames Poland for Hitler.

Every single version of history you have is full of shit.

 

[ll74]

The coup destroyed democracy in Ukraine.

In 1991, 71.48% of Ukraine's voters voted in favour of a statement which asked:

"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"

And what is the state of Ukraine since the Euromaidan coup of 2014? Ultra-Ukrainian nationalism, neonazism, Russophobia, attacks on the Russian language, all sorts of sectarian violence and war. A sickening contempt for the democratic wishes from 1991, wouldn't you agree?

And besides all of your horseshit history, the plain truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine is defending itself against invaders.

Russia had no right to do so
And Ukraine has every right to do so

 

[Lazaran]

"Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of EQUAL SOVEREIGN REPUBLICS in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?"

^
(Quoted for posterity and stupidity)

"Becky" conveniently ignores the fact that Russia violated the bolded portion of that "statement" on day one.

Russia did NOT treat Ukraine as "equal" OR “sovereign" leading up to the revolution of dignity.

"Becky" is either being willfully ignorant and naive, or "Becky" is naturally ignorant and naive…or both.



"Becky"

 

[ll74]

What's Russia Planning - The Dispatch https://thedispatch.com/podcast/remnant/whats-russia-planning/

Carolina Herd from - THE KREMLIN'S OCCUPATION PLAYBOOK: COERCED RUSSIFICATION AND ETHNIC CLEANSING IN OCCUPIED UKRAINE discussed her piece

Jonah had a great point at the end of this podcast - for those saying Israel is attacking hospitals etc or involving occupation, etc and this is a bad thing - Russia is doing exactly that...without question.

 

[ll74]

Ukraine strikes may have hit 15% of Russian refinery capacity - NATO official​

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Ukraine strikes may have hit 15% of Russian refinery capacity - NATO official​

Ukraine has gotten very selective as well in what they are targeting. They are aiming for hard to replace without sanctioned western equipment refining equipment.

I give Ukraine a lot of credit, they are fast becoming world experts in Military drone technology. If they can survive this, I suspect they will become a major supplier of military drone technology for NATO.

 

[rgraham666]

"Becky" is either being willfully ignorant and naive, or "Becky" is naturally ignorant and naive…or both.

Another possibility: FSB asset.

There's a lot of those these days.

 

[Chernosoth]

NATO does not have the fuel, hardware, or soldiers to engage Russia in war. The fuel went into suburban sprawl, McMansions, SUVs, and all sorts of stupid shit. The hardware is overpriced shit like high tech tanks that are only as effective as Russia's much cheaper tanks, and the F35, which might as well be a suicide plane. If NATO insists on all out war, Russia might gain some European and American territory it didn't particularly want, but what the hell, it's there for the taking.

Turkiye is in NATO and makes drones, while the rest of NATO imports electronics from China. Turkiye might be the only part of NATO worth anything in a fight.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The hardware is overpriced shit like high tech tanks that are only as effective as Russia's much cheaper tanks, a

Russia's fielding T50/55 Tanks and some T-34's, so I guess your right. The're from the 1940's and 1950's and they are very cheap...

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

You can't provide what I asked for.
Got it.

None of that relates to Sachs or the response to him.

You're a broken record.

Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine has a right to defend itself.

No I don't, have a citation for that. Also ask me if I care what China said....

lol yes the Chinese are coming to take over America......

Again, not like I don't believe you, but do you have a citation?

Blinken is absolutely crazy.

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-video-remarks-at-the-crimea-platform-summit/

 

[Rightguide]

Incorrect.

Ukraine is defending their invaders.

Russia are the Invaders who have NO CLAIM to Ukraine.

Ukraine is a sovereign country who is not required to capitulate to their invaders.

How sovereign was Ukraine in 2014 when the US overthrew Ukraine's elected President and installed it's own puppet government?

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war​

The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
Seumas Milne Wed 30 Apr 2014 16.01 EDT


The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

"America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government.

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Just askin'.

 

[ll74]

How sovereign was Ukraine in 2014 when the US overthrew Ukraine's elected President and installed it's own puppet government?

It was sovereign. No territory was invaded and the people had the ability to elect Zelensky overwhelmingly.

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war

Russia literally invaded the country. Ukraine didn't get pushed to anything except defend itself against said invasion.

The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all
Seumas Milne Wed 30 Apr 2014 16.01 EDT


The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

"America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government.

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Just askin'.

This post is all over the place.

Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine did not force them to do so. Ukraine did not invade Russia.

 

[Rightguide]

It was sovereign. No territory was invaded and the people had the ability to elect Zelensky overwhelmingly.

The fact remains that in 2014 we installed a puppet government and overthrew the elected leader of the country.