For women in this lifestyle with children

[bruisedangel]

bruised - I think you and Simon have received some excellent advice. How old is your daughter? Perhaps I missed this before, but I didn't see it.

Wearing "sexy clothes" (depending on what that means) around a two year old is different than a 13 year old. The thirteen year old might be horrified and embarassed; the two year old will have no clue.

I personally have a sense of privacy. I don't share my every last thought with my child, sexual or not. There is a difference, however, between privacy and secrecy/shame. There are things that are personal to me, but I don't act like I've got some terrible bad thing I'm hiding.

She's six.

And I agree, totally, that there is a difference between privacy and shame. As a general rule, I keep my personal life to myself. However, anytime anyone has ever asked me a question, in regards to any aspect, I have little trouble sharing things

 

[SimonBrooke]

(guys, I'm responding to this one post because I'm away from home and don't have much time - it doesn't mean all your other posts haven't also been valuable. Also, no, of course the child isn't a 'nuisance'. But she is going to be a major readjustment in my life. And in saying I'm not going to become her father, all I'm saying is that she has a perfectly good father already whom I'm not going to try to usurp)

• Not if it's part of her everyday wear as well. I have a number of chokers that I occasionally wear, so when I wear the 'black ribbon', it's no different from when I wear 'the tight gemmed necklace'. Otherwise, you might want to consider picking up lookalike jewelry to swap around, so wearing 'tight necklaces' aren't a thing of concern.

• 
  
  Having read this thread, we've discussed it. Angel already does have several chokers she wears regularly, and I've suggested she wears them more of the time, now, so that by the time I impinge on the child's life (which won't be for some months yet) she's used to that.
  
  

  [*] Depends on what you consider sexy. My husband and I consider tasteful or elegant outfits as 'sexy', but I wouldn't walk around in my underwear, let alone something more revealing... I am not comfortable enough in my own nudity to do that (and I still have a horrid image burned in my head from seeing my grandmother naked... ew...). And on that note...

  
  I do NOT consider 'sluttish' to be sexy. Angel will certainly not be required to wear anything sluttish. Elegant and easily removed is more the style I want! And I'm not proposing that Angel be routinely naked around the house, just that it shouldn't be a big deal.
  
  Re: kids finding out their parents practice BDSM
  

  This is purely my opinion, but I don't think *any* age, while as a minor, is appropriate or wise, not yet anyway. Kids are influenced by the media of the traditional (or traditional single parent) family image... with BDSM being relegated to shock value, for humorous effect, and so on (much as GLBT were in the 90's and earlier), that notion will rub off as well... it could be damaging to her to know what her mom does. Growing up, I had a friend whose mom was lesbian, and he was essentially an outcast because of it. We currently reside in the same sort of niche as the GLBT community did ten or twenty years back- we are acknowledged, but not taken seriously, as there has been no real high-profile media figures to stand up for us.
  
  It's one thing to talk about it from a neutral position right along side the 'birds and the bees' talk, but until it's 'safe to come out of the closet' as individuals, something like that might best wait until adulthood (where it only bears an 'eww, too much info' factor, instead of a 'my life is over' factor).

  
  I very much agree with you that we're sort of twenty years behind the LBGT crowd, in terms of public acceptance. I also rather fear that things are slipping backwards - that high water has passed, the tide is going out, and western society as a whole (and Scottish society in particular) is getting more repressive. However, this one is tricky, because I do not want to live in a closet. If we're at all open about our practice, then it's inevitable the child must find out sooner or later. If the collected wisdom is that that's a must not happen, then that needs careful thought.
  
  

  • For example, instead of using the terms "Master" and "slave", using first names to represent "I command/I obey" whereas pet names like 'dear' or 'honey' identify "Do me a favor?/Sure!" (akin to the notion of using a child's first, middle, and last name to show you're being serious). Or, similarly, choose specific pet names ("My Dear/sweetheart" still has the M/s or D/s connotation there).

  
  Don't worry, theatricality like 'Master' and 'slave' just make both of us giggle. If that sort of nonsense ever becomes part of our practice it will be as a joke only.
  
  

  • Arrange the furniture in a way where if she "wants to sit next to you", sitting on the floor at your feet is more convenient than sitting in the nearby chair (say, the two are separated by an endtable covered in stuff that can be knocked over). Throw pillows also add to the 'natural' feel of sitting on the floor.

  
  That is a very nice suggestion; thank you, I may well act on that.
  
  

  • As to the screams and sobs... control and self-control from both parties, a high-quality pillow, and a TV. It is very possible to scream without allowing yourself to make much of a sound at all, but you have to 'relearn' to do it consistently. Sobs are a different story... I've not quite learned how to do that quietly... and that's where the pillow comes in. It also helps to have the TV on to provide background noise.

  
  This is the one which frankly is worrying me most.
  
  

  Finally, have a backup plan for everything. Make a logical explanation for anything. Kids have a 'sex radar'... either right after you start, or right before you finish, it 'goes off', and they need something to drink, or want to tell you something important about the show they watched earlier. "Wrestling" only works for so many years before you have to come up with new excuses as you try new things.

  
  Thanks for this - this is something which, of course, I didn't know. I'll think about it!

 

[sb2009]

The most interesting thing about this, is that no matter what the lifestyle is, anytime kids are put in the mix it all needs rearranging.

It's just the way it is, parenthood is great and terrible at the same time LOL

At our stage of the game (girls 12 and 7) we work hard to get thier sleepovers at friends houses on the same night. I've even honestly told a mom or two that one has a sleepover and "look, I'll take your kid next week, but this week, my husband and I really NEED some time alone together, so can you take the other one?." Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[rida]

The most interesting thing about this, is that no matter what the lifestyle is, anytime kids are put in the mix it all needs rearranging.

It's just the way it is, parenthood is great and terrible at the same time LOL

At our stage of the game (girls 12 and 7) we work hard to get thier sleepovers at friends houses on the same night. I've even honestly told a mom or two that one has a sleepover and "look, I'll take your kid next week, but this week, my husband and I really NEED some time alone together, so can you take the other one?." Desperate times call for desperate measures.

And the secret is out: sleepover are not for the kids ... they are for the parents!

 

[rida]

We have kids, still primary school.

Keeping the noise down is indeed the hardest part. I'm lucky that they are heavy sleepers and that Hubby does not necessarily want me to scream, but he likes to put in just enough stress were it is a challenge. However, if he is in the mood for something more elaborate, we arrange baby-sitting and go out (we have an exchange system with some friends so that we can go out at least once a month). Or take advantage of sleep-overs or of the rare morning where we are both off from work while the kids are at school.

Nudity is not an issue as I have always walked around in different stages of undress. The problem now is with the marks and bruises. So what is actually happening is that I am being more prudish than I used to. Little things I can get away with being clumsy. But a black and blue butt or hip, is more than I wish to explain.

No collar but I have a neck-less that has the same meaning to me.
And as for sexy dressing, well, sometime i do, sometime i don't, sometime I am naked and sometime in flannel pjs

I know that the day will come I'll be asked about the "strange noises" (cannot help moaning when I get fucked hard so the pillow is my friend, and sometime the sound of a hand-spank is just ... loud). The answer will be that it is private between mom and daddy. One of the kids will leave it at that and probably not even ask. The other one thou, I would not be surprised if she would just come out and say "I know you have sex, mom"
Hopefully we are at least a couple of years away ...

 

[ecstaticsub]

And the secret is out: sleepover are not for the kids ... they are for the parents!

Absolutely true! On more than one occasion I have arranged the kids sleep overs so hubby and I could have time alone. Or sent them to grandmom's huse because I had a "conference" to attend.

 

[jenniferbaby]

<snip> Finally, have a backup plan for everything. Make a logical explanation for anything. Kids have a 'sex radar'... either right after you start, or right before you finish, it 'goes off', and they need something to drink, or want to tell you something important about the show they watched earlier. "Wrestling" only works for so many years before you have to come up with new excuses as you try new things.

You give a lot of practical advice, Ravenwind, that I will keep in mind and may come in handy one day. Thank you.

I've used the pillow and background noise to muffle moaning and screaming myself. I read in 'S/M 101' that classical music works well for this purpose. I had already been using classical music for a while as background noise since I don't have a TV and wouldn't want to use it even if I did have one. The music can be very erotic, adding to the mood without detracting from it.

 

[graceanne]

At our stage of the game (girls 12 and 7) we work hard to get thier sleepovers at friends houses on the same night. I've even honestly told a mom or two that one has a sleepover and "look, I'll take your kid next week, but this week, my husband and I really NEED some time alone together, so can you take the other one?." Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I bet the mom laughed, nodded her head, and did it cause she's been there, too.

And the secret is out: sleepover are not for the kids ... they are for the parents!

That was a secret?

Actually, I can't wait until my son (6) and sleep at other people's houses successfully so I can get rid of kids without paying for day care.

 

[MisterSir]

That was a secret?

I certainly didn't connect the dots until now. What about mass sleepovers? Were they just excuses for all the suddenly-free parents to indulge in the occasional orgy?

 

[sb2009]

I never thought of that! I should start dropping hints, there is probably all kinds of action going on behind these seemingly bland front doors in my neighborhood...

OT, today my husband called from work and I was actually working on my resume and he said "don't like, I know you are on your kinky-sex online support group!" LOL

 

[graceanne]

I certainly didn't connect the dots until now. What about mass sleepovers? Were they just excuses for all the suddenly-free parents to indulge in the occasional orgy?

Not in my neck of the woods, but it has been known for some of us parents to go out and have a drink together. My sister and I used to trade off with the kids every other week so we could go do something or have an evening of couch sex (always having sex in the bedroom can get old, quick).

 

[ataxia.girl]

i have 4 kids and it is difficult for Hubby and i to find time\space to play. We mostly don't beyond rough sex. i can really only think of one time we have "played" in the past year and it was at a hotel on our anniversary. We do have a lot of rough sex which occasionally includes an abbreviated spanking, nothing we would need the toybag for though. It basically just collects dust.

Even with Daddy which is out of town away from the kids its become mostly rough reluctant sex or sexual service. i don't think i've been tied up for quite some time which is fine by me. i am not really "into" most of the BDSM activities for themselves. i'm not really even "into" the sex for its own sake. i do like being used. i like feeling powerless and of course i love being a pampered spoiled little girl who Daddy can't keep his hands off.

 

[mistressmaxine]

H'mmm...

This one's tricky. I have no children, never have had, never wanted them. However, my new toy, who may be invited to move in, has a (minor) child. It is not at all that I dislike children, but I really don't want the sort of relationship where sex is restricted to bedrooms at night. And I really don't the sort of relationship where my toy can't wear the things I find interesting around the house.

The child is not my child, of course. The child has a father, and I'm not seeking to usurp his position. So as far as the child is concerned, I am mummy's lover, nothing else. I may discipline the mother, but I shan't discipline the child.

However. Obviously, if she moves in, there are going to have to be compromises. But...

• Is it so bad if a child sees her mother wearing a collar (I'm thinking of one of the nice German industrial metal ones)?
• Is it so bad if a child sees her mother wearing sexy clothes?
• Is it so bad if a child sometimes sees her mother naked?
• Is it so bad if a child sees her mother being kissed, or cuddled?

And after those,

• At what age/stage of development is it OK for the child to know that her mother gets tied up?
• At what age/stage of development is it OK for the child to know that her mother gets spanked?
• At what age/stage of development is it OK for the child to know that her mother gets hit with things?

I mean, obviously, the child must never hear her mother scream or sob (although both my toy and I will want screams and tears more than sometimes). Obviously the child must never see her mother being hit. Obviously the child must grow up to know that women deserve to be treated with as much respect as men. But, surely it's not completely wrong for a school-age child to see any of those things in the first group, and not completely impossible for an adolescent child to know (but not see) those things in the second?

We're thinking about going into this relationship because we both want a fairly no-limits D/s relationship, tending towards M/s. If having a child around the house actually means that what we end up with is a 95% vanilla relationship, with all the BDSM aspects squeezed entirely into the interstices where the child is absent... that needs some very careful thought.

So help me here. How does one build aspects of BDSM practice into a family life with children? I'm either going to have to find a way to believe this is possible, or else to drop a relationship which looks extremely promising.

Like bruisedangel I wish I could learn the skill of breaking up threads to answer bits on an individual basis....I can't though so here goes for what it is worth!!

I have though about it a lot and read most of what has been written.

As a parent myself, and a step parent, I think I have the right to some opinions but in general this whole thing is really up to the two people involved.

If I had discovered this side of myself when the kids were young I would not have actively hidden it. I would proabably have been sensible and kept certain things out of the way but in general the younger kids are the more easily they accept what goes on around them as the norm so in hiding it you then demonise it which makes them do the same.

We, that is us "British" people, have really crap attitudes to sex. We hide it, we don't talk about it or if we do it's to make it "funny", we humiliate and ridicule that which is different. As our kids grow they do the same.

Make your relationship part of your daily life, make it natural and ordinary. Obviously you don't want to scare the wee one, but the more naturally you behave the more she will not think twice about it and accept it as what you do.

As to nudity etc....I am all for children seeing their parents nude. How the hell else are they going to learn about bodies and body parts if they don't?? And shows of affection should be natural and a part of any family or unit's life.

That is it....I've had my say.....Hope it's been of some kind of use, or at least some of it makes some sense.....

 

[rosco rathbone]

"This lifestyle" lol

 

[Kajira Callista]

"This lifestyle" lol

lol hi uncle rosco

 

[sb2009]

as far as the nudity goes, it seems like when kids themselves hit puberty or right before, they start getting sky about being naked/seeing parents naked. Mine were practically nudists, but around 8 or so my oldest started covering up more and by 11 she was saying "gross" if she walked in my room when I was changing...which she still does. Has not learned to knock, her fault!

 

[bruisedangel]

as far as the nudity goes, it seems like when kids themselves hit puberty or right before, they start getting sky about being naked/seeing parents naked. Mine were practically nudists, but around 8 or so my oldest started covering up more and by 11 she was saying "gross" if she walked in my room when I was changing...which she still does. Has not learned to knock, her fault!

If mine had her way, she would be naked all the time, or in the middle of playing dress up. Dress up seems to include rhinestones, sparkles, makeup and dirt. Mud apparently makes for great blush. At least, if you're going for queen of the mud baby tribe. Anyway, I'm not sure if I should be embarrassed, or proud, that she tells me all the time she can't wait to grow up and have boobies like mommy!

 

[graceanne]

as far as the nudity goes, it seems like when kids themselves hit puberty or right before, they start getting sky about being naked/seeing parents naked. Mine were practically nudists, but around 8 or so my oldest started covering up more and by 11 she was saying "gross" if she walked in my room when I was changing...which she still does. Has not learned to knock, her fault!

Depends on the child. My middle girl was showing signs of modesty at 4. My big girl (age 11) occasionally changes in the living room, and has no issues with walking in on me when I'm changing or talking to me in the bathtub. On the other hand, she screams at her sibs if they walk in on her in the shower. (Hey, I didn't say she was consistent! )

 

[sb2009]

consistancy from an 11 year old girl???? What's that?

I heard it get better around 15...my girls are five years apart to apparently when one calms down the other one will revv up...sigh

 

[graceanne]

consistancy from an 11 year old girl???? What's that?

I heard it get better around 15...my girls are five years apart to apparently when one calms down the other one will revv up...sigh

LOL My girls are almost exactly three years apart. I was remarking to K that my younger girl is the same age I was when I started getting puberty and how weird it would look if she gets boobs right now, cause she's really tiny (think as tall as a 5 year old, and she can still fit in her size T3 swimsuit.) Luckily, it doesn't look like she is. Thank God, cause my 11 year old is routinely annoying me with her crappy attitude, and I know it's gonna get worse. I demand at least three more years before I have to handle TWO teeny boppers!

 

[mistressmaxine]

"This lifestyle" lol

Glad my turn of phrase amused you

 

[StrayKat]

Make your relationship part of your daily life, make it natural and ordinary. Obviously you don't want to scare the wee one, but the more naturally you behave the more she will not think twice about it and accept it as what you do.

And what if she goes of and blurts all about those "natural things" to kids in the school and teachers?
The child might accept as ordinary whatever she sees her parents do, but society may have other opinions on ordinary things.

 

[Shadowann2]

And what if she goes of and blurts all about those "natural things" to kids in the school and teachers?
The child might accept as ordinary whatever she sees her parents do, but society may have other opinions on ordinary things.

This is very true. You'd be amazed about what kids talk about. She says one thing to one kid, that kid goes and tells mom/dad/teacher/whomever, and suddenly you have child services at your door. And the child has NO idea that anything is amiss, because she thinks that everyone's house is just like hers. I've seen it happen to more than one friend.

 

[intothewoods]

This is more of a general comment, but so often we project our own stuff onto our kids - whether it be our insecurities, our needs, our fears, etc. And sometimes we do it without even being aware of it.

As young kids try to figure out the world around them, they are curious and ask lots of questions. But their reasons for asking questions are different from that of an adult. They want to know how something impacts them, and how to define their world, with you as a part of their world.

 

[bruisedangel]

This is more of a general comment, but so often we project our own stuff onto our kids - whether it be our insecurities, our needs, our fears, etc. And sometimes we do it without even being aware of it.

As young kids try to figure out the world around them, they are curious and ask lots of questions. But their reasons for asking questions are different from that of an adult. They want to know how something impacts them, and how to define their world, with you as a part of their world.

So true!

Have any of you ever sat down and asked a small child to explain how the world works? Not in exactly those words, but, close there to. It's interesting, funny as hell, and amazingly intuitive. I fear the day that I'm no longer super-mom, where the sun doesn't rise and set on my just being mommy.