Formal Dom Training

[Richard49]

I actually think that bottoming/submitting is valuable training for Dominants/Tops and is written off far too quickly.

I don't think I'd be half what I am without it. Whether I got out of it a perfect understanding of what a submissive gets and total empathy with them isn't the point. The point is that I pushed myself into a growth situation of considerable difficulty. Was it fun for me? Sometimes very much so. More often than not, fuck, no! It was uncomfortable, not-me, infuriating, humiliating, and disappointing. And I don't regret a moment of it.

you seem to almost always impress me

 

[SweetDommes]

This is a far cry from "it isn't necessary"

Me thinks short term is a year

Where-as, I think short term is more like ... a week to a month, tops.

Even looking over a life-time, a year is a significant chunk of someone's adult life.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Not my thing. I prefer to not submit, even in a training context. After all, there are many different kinds of dominance.

 

[bridgeburner]

I actually think that bottoming/submitting is valuable training for Dominants/Tops and is written off far too quickly.

I don't think I'd be half what I am without it. Whether I got out of it a perfect understanding of what a submissive gets and total empathy with them isn't the point. The point is that I pushed myself into a growth situation of considerable difficulty. Was it fun for me? Sometimes very much so. More often than not, fuck, no! It was uncomfortable, not-me, infuriating, humiliating, and disappointing. And I don't regret a moment of it.

Now this makes sense to me, but I don't usually hear it described as such. It's the touchy-feely-ness of it that escapes me. I've never understood how submitting is supposed to put a Dominant in the headspace of a submissive because that doesn't seem like it can be done. If I think about it in the way I think about my belief that everyone should take a job waiting tables at least once, then it makes perfect sense to me......except that that does involve an empathetic exchange rather than a more removed self-discpline. Hmmmm.....must think some more.

-B

 

[bridgeburner]

I may be wrong
I was once
but my money is that you are one of those that says traing is not necsary

I take cash or credit only, no personal checks.

 

[Netzach]

Now this makes sense to me, but I don't usually hear it described as such. It's the touchy-feely-ness of it that escapes me. I've never understood how submitting is supposed to put a Dominant in the headspace of a submissive because that doesn't seem like it can be done. If I think about it in the way I think about my belief that everyone should take a job waiting tables at least once, then it makes perfect sense to me......except that that does involve an empathetic exchange rather than a more removed self-discpline. Hmmmm.....must think some more.

-B

Uh huh.

But I think the fact that I liked it enough to keep coming back a lot says something about my kind of masochism.

 

[bridgeburner]

Uh huh.

But I think the fact that I liked it enough to keep coming back a lot says something about my kind of masochism.

What do you think of the theory that the occasional Dominant might grow out of alpha-type bottoms who couldn't find satisfactory Doms? Since they can't find their perfect Dom, they become their perfect Dom?

-B

 

[Netzach]

What do you think of the theory that the occasional Dominant might grow out of alpha-type bottoms who couldn't find satisfactory Doms? Since they can't find their perfect Dom, they become their perfect Dom?

-B

Sure, I think that works. I think I was trying to fill a hole by being the sub I wanted, a complaint-free, low-maintenance, dedicated service boy. (which is actually one of the highest maintenance creatures out there)

I can see this working both ways as people figure themselves out. We're creatures given to projection.

 

[bridgeburner]

I think I was trying to fill a hole by being the sub I wanted, a complaint-free, low-maintenance, dedicated service boy. (which is actually one of the highest maintenance creatures out there)

Is it somewhat like having a freakishly smart dog? They're excellent pets and companions when they have enough tasks to keep them occupied but if they get bored you'd better watch the fuck out?

-B

 

[Netzach]

Is it somewhat like having a freakishly smart dog? They're excellent pets and companions when they have enough tasks to keep them occupied but if they get bored you'd better watch the fuck out?

-B

Yes, exactly.

Then you have a neurotic pee-er who will need doggie buspar and wonders if you still love it. And yet hates itself because it know's it's just a dog and should be ok being chained up outside for a while.

 

[bridgeburner]

Yes, exactly.

Then you have a neurotic pee-er who will need doggie buspar and wonders if you still love it. And yet hates itself because it know's it's just a dog and should be ok being chained up outside for a while.

Oh, god! My dog freaked out yesterday because I didn't scold her properly. She was trying to tell me she was sick and I just thought she was being warty and I was working and I ignored her and something "slipped out" and I was like "Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry! Let's go!" so she's shame-faced and hunched over and hurrying for the door and I'm feeling like the worst pet-owner ever and at least thankful that I don't have carpet and that was more than anyone wanted to know but I couldn't scold her because it was MY fault for being a dumbass but she was cringing and wouldn't stop because she kept expecting me to yell at her. I finally had to tell her "Bad Dog! No! No!" and point at the spot. So that two minutes later she could finally forget about it. I swear. She's a dog, fer chrissakes. They're not supposed to obsess like that.

So that was MY punishment for being a shitty "mom". I hurt my dog's feelings and then I had to scold her for something that was my fault and now I've broadcast it to the world. Ah, pennance. Who says my religious upbringing was a waste?

oops.

/hijack

Sorry.


-B

 

[Richard49]

Dog training/discipline
is it for the dog?
the owner?

 

[RJMasters]

When I first learn of D/s/BDSM, I did about a 3 month stint being a submissive. In my opinoin I was lied to, manipulated and then played with in a not so good way. I wasn't a bottom, I was a submissive...or I did my best to submit because that's what I was told to do.

Yes I learned....no I don't regret the experience(with two exceptions)...did I hate it? Well no, I didn't hate it, but I did hate Her. Maybe to some other male submissive she would have been a dream come true....to me she was an abusive bitch that needed to be knocked on her ass.

When I look back on it all now...I think what a shame...So many ways that experieince effected me badly. How much anger and resentment I had for women in general, how much that would later down the road effect the way I would express my dominance and treat female submissives...

I had a lot of bitterness to work through. And that little 3 month stint turned into years of working out of a hole someone else put me into mentally and emotionaly.

Is there value in a Dominant spending some time submitting/bottoming/whatever-the-heck-you-want-to-call-it? Yep. But its not for everyone, and if done wrong, a person can then carry alot of bitterness and anger inside them for a very long time, maybe even the rest of their life.

 

[Netzach]

It's a bad relationship.

Had it been a bad relationship with a sub and you as Dom you'd still have issues to hash out before your next time around. The worst relationship I got into was with a "perfectly compatible" switch --it took years to get over that.

 

[alice_underneath]

Is it something you would do, have done, or think all Doms should do?

I want to thank you for starting this thread, Kajira Callista. The responses have been fascinating.

I don't really consider it my place to define what a Dominant is, but I have seen two definitions that made sense to me.

I know plenty of people who are charismatic and wise and respectful and forceful and loyal and brave and nurturing and full of integrity and blah blah blah but that doesn't make them Dominants.

If someone gets a sexual charge out of telling other people what to do that person is a Dominant.

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=16356329&postcount=204

I will agree that the title of Dom or Domme is not something one takes for themselves, it is a title of respect for a dominant type person that is given to them by someone who respects them enough to call them their Sir or Maam. In fact, in my narrow definition of the title of Dom or Domme, a person cannot hold that title unless they currently are in a relationship with a submissive.

https://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=16385444&postcount=13

Neither of these definitions has anything to do with sadomasochistic play. Nor do they have anything to do with a specific set of rules or ideas (e.g., Gorean culture).

Taken together, the definitions mean just one thing. There is a man who wants to control, guide, or direct.... and he has found a woman who is willing to follow or obey him. (Play with the genders, the result is the same.)

Given these definitions, I don't see how formal Dom training could be considered necessary. That's how I voted: It isn't necessary. Meaning: formal training could be important (for example, if the Dom/me is a sadist), but is not necessarily so.

In fact, if you strip out the elements relating to sadomasochistic play or adherence to a specific set of rules, I don't even understand why formal Dom training is desirable. It seems to me that the way in which each individual exerts his or her dominance would be unique. Why would you try to fit them into a particular mold?

Sure, they can do some reading.... talk to others.... perhaps listen to a mentor with similar values or ideals. But can you really be taught how to be inspire respect in a submissive? Wouldn't that be sort of like teaching charisma?

These are not rhetorical questions. I honestly don't understand, and if someone believes that formal Dom training (unrelated to sadomasochistic play or adherence to particular rules) is necessary, I welcome the opportunity to learn why.

Alice

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

my two bits

Personnally Formal training I believe is an option for the most part. While it can allow you to learn some of the more difficult things ie, different knots, the use of certin punishment devices ext. I personnally believe that all in all most of the learning that a Dom has to do is with his/her sub. Reading your subs needs is what this is all about. And while doing that being able to satisfy your own needs as a Dom as well. Cause if one of you is not enjoying yourself then its no longer worth continueing. Personnally I couldn't be a sub to well so the babtism of fire idea aka 1 year as a sub. Wouldn't work to well for me, (suprisingly have a low threshold for pain and hate being restricted in my movement.). But I can totally understand why that is actually a very well thought out idea. It gives you a more inside idea of what is truely is that your willing to do. Aswell as giving the option of seeing if instead of Dom your "true" calling is as a sub instead. In my limited experience in this field, (trust me its very limited as of yet, unfortunatly,) I've found that the Dom is the one were all the pressure comes to bear. I am a firm believer that the relationship between Dom/Sub is a far deeper and more trusting one then most new commers believe. So if formal training becomes available to you I would say take it, but only if you believe that it can truely bring you and your sub closer, otherwise just try your absolute best to stay safe and creative.

I always loved to keep my ex-Sub wondering what was comming next. Blindfolds are a god send for that.

 

[Richard49]

When I first learn of D/s/BDSM, I did about a 3 month stint being a submissive. In my opinoin I was lied to, manipulated and then played with in a not so good way. I wasn't a bottom, I was a submissive...or I did my best to submit because that's what I was told to do.

Yes I learned....no I don't regret the experience(with two exceptions)...did I hate it? Well no, I didn't hate it, but I did hate Her. Maybe to some other male submissive she would have been a dream come true....to me she was an abusive bitch that needed to be knocked on her ass.

When I look back on it all now...I think what a shame...So many ways that experieince effected me badly. How much anger and resentment I had for women in general, how much that would later down the road effect the way I would express my dominance and treat female submissives...

I had a lot of bitterness to work through. And that little 3 month stint turned into years of working out of a hole someone else put me into mentally and emotionaly.

Is there value in a Dominant spending some time submitting/bottoming/whatever-the-heck-you-want-to-call-it? Yep. But its not for everyone, and if done wrong, a person can then carry alot of bitterness and anger inside them for a very long time, maybe even the rest of their life.

1) I thought you had NO RT experence
2) big difference between submissive and bottom
3) the down side of mentoring is why you take a long time to choose the mentor

 

[Richard49]

Personnally Formal training I believe is an option for the most part. While it can allow you to learn some of the more difficult things ie, different knots, the use of certin punishment devices ext.

this is training that a top may need and for some Doms never need

if for no other reason training is need for the language part
ggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wiz

 

[Richard49]

Given these definitions, I don't see how formal Dom training could be considered necessary. That's how I voted: It isn't necessary. Meaning: formal training could be important (for example, if the Dom/me is a sadist), but is not necessarily so.

In fact, if you strip out the elements relating to sadomasochistic play or adherence to a specific set of rules, I don't even understand why formal Dom training is desirable. It seems to me that the way in which each individual exerts his or her dominance would be unique. Why would you try to fit them into a particular mold?


Alice

and again we hear from the non RT audience

IMHO being a Dom is somethign I am
if that is true why did I go for the formal training
welp
for the most part I will answer this on my thread

but

It was highly suggested as I came up so that one would know
1) if for sure one was a Dom or a wnnabe or fantasier(sp)
2) what it was like to make a committment
3) what it physical felt like to be a submiisve with and without the BDSM
4) how Doms act/behave in social sisutations
5) how Doms handle being wrong

I could go on but

What I see here with the "it is not importnat" group is
1) a loss of language
2) ignorance

As I have said before "submissives if you have been hurt or fear being hurt ... look at the posts here and ask yourself ..."would I truly trust myself with these with no training even worse that feel they do not need any?"

Weather we are talking top/bottom dom/submissive sensualists
whatever
we are talking about a power exchange that requires some level of trust

now do you give your trust away like a street whore?

 

[catalina_francisco]

When I first learn of D/s/BDSM, I did about a 3 month stint being a submissive. In my opinoin I was lied to, manipulated and then played with in a not so good way. I wasn't a bottom, I was a submissive...or I did my best to submit because that's what I was told to do.

Yes I learned....no I don't regret the experience(with two exceptions)...did I hate it? Well no, I didn't hate it, but I did hate Her. Maybe to some other male submissive she would have been a dream come true....to me she was an abusive bitch that needed to be knocked on her ass.

When I look back on it all now...I think what a shame...So many ways that experieince effected me badly. How much anger and resentment I had for women in general, how much that would later down the road effect the way I would express my dominance and treat female submissives...

I had a lot of bitterness to work through. And that little 3 month stint turned into years of working out of a hole someone else put me into mentally and emotionaly.

Is there value in a Dominant spending some time submitting/bottoming/whatever-the-heck-you-want-to-call-it? Yep. But its not for everyone, and if done wrong, a person can then carry alot of bitterness and anger inside them for a very long time, maybe even the rest of their life.

This is part of the whole picture though of taking responsibility for your actions whether you are a submissive, Dominant, switch, bottom, or Top. You enter into an agreement with someone (and I am assuming this was also online), you assume some of the reponsibility for that agreement. As you say, for some it might have been all their dreams and then some, but that would be because it was what tweaked their buttons. I know personally, even if it was in no way full on, just a situation of someone topping in any form, Francisco would have a fairly negative reaction to the whole scene. Would he then go on to judge all women (or whichever gender) on that one person and react accordingly? I doubt it seriously. I also went through some bad moments face to face with Dominants which could have been classed as abusive because they either crossed the line, or planned to if I had stuck around, but I just went on to the next with a bit more wisdom and a fresh attitude. I put myself in that position, no-one forced me to, so I accept my part in it. Similarly, now I am topping male subs, I have communicated with some who have had a different view of what they expect to what I am willing to give...no problem, if they can't accept my terms and adjust, we part friendly and seek those who better match each of our needs. Knowing what you want, keeping your wits about you, and being responsible for where you walk in this journey can make a lot of difference to your overall experience.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

and again we hear from the non RT audience

IMHO being a Dom is somethign I am
if that is true why did I go for the formal training
welp
for the most part I will answer this on my thread

but

It was highly suggested as I came up so that one would know
1) if for sure one was a Dom or a wnnabe or fantasier(sp)
2) what it was like to make a committment
3) what it physical felt like to be a submiisve with and without the BDSM
4) how Doms act/behave in social sisutations
5) how Doms handle being wrong

I could go on but

What I see here with the "it is not importnat" group is
1) a loss of language
2) ignorance

As I have said before "submissives if you have been hurt or fear being hurt ... look at the posts here and ask yourself ..."would I truly trust myself with these with no training even worse that feel they do not need any?"

Weather we are talking top/bottom dom/submissive sensualists
whatever
we are talking about a power exchange that requires some level of trust

now do you give your trust away like a street whore?

Richard,

Unfortunately, I still have not received a response that assists my understanding of what you, personally, believe.

What I am trying to determine is this. How would you provide formal training for a Dom who is interested in neither sadomasochistic play nor adherence to the rules of a specific culture (e.g. Gor)?

Alice

 

[chris9]

I voted not necessary.
To me the word *training* contains learning what others tell you to learn/do what others tell you to do. Might be a misconception due to different use of words (e.g. here the coach of a sports team is called 'Trainer').
I expect a Dom who might be worth my submission (and this is only theory at present, so it might change) to have learnt and to still be learning a lot. But I would want him to learn it by seeing what's missing to make him better by self-reflection, and to then ask others, get information, practice, whatever it takes for that particular thing that's lacking. This, to me, includes before all communication, not only with other Doms who share about their side of the power exchange, but also with submissives. I think one might learn more about how the submissive head-set and dynamic and psychology works by talking to many submissives than by pretending to be one for any lenght of time.
And I'm not saying that any advice/input others give is wrong, that only sought-after information is valuable. It just should always be thought about and then taken if he believes it's right and worth it, not because the mentor says so.

The most important thing he would need to have is self-control, because I wouldn't feel safe letting someone control me who couldn't even control himself. I don't see how he could learn this when playing at being submissive as that entails learning to be controlled by someone else.

To me formal training means more the behaviour expected, some psychological inside into what's going on in a very regulated way, like school, or private 'tutoring' by others with a sort of schedule and an ending point. I don't feel that's necessary, because there are many ways to learn, different ways for different persons, something to suit everyone. On the other hand I do feel that especially more practical skills (inflicting pain in various ways, first aid maybe, tying knots...) should be taught somewhere. But more like evening classes or work-shops or something like it.

I don't get the argument that a Dom should experience the submissive part to make sure they are dominant. I've never heard that a submissive should be a Dominant for a certain amount of time to make sure they are really subs, or to understand where the Dominant comes from, what kind of responsibility they have, whatever.

 

[fenda]

this is so dumb are you all stupid cant you tie your own shoe laces

 

[chris9]

this is so dumb are you all stupid cant you tie your own shoe laces

Hello fenda! It's so nice to meet you

 

[catalina_francisco]

this is so dumb are you all stupid cant you tie your own shoe laces

LOL, well then that is interesting given a certain conversation I had a couple of days ago which looks as if I and at least one other person was right on the mark.

Catalina