Formal Dom Training

[RJMasters]

You know I didn't mean to come off sounding like a victum.

I shared a bad experience I had.
I explained what I thought happened.
I also explained that I spent a few years working through some consequences that I faced because of the experience.

I didn't stay there and moan and complain and say woe is me....I realized what happened was not right, and I set out to work through it in my life.

Did it cause me to have issues with women? Yes.
Did I wrongly blame or hold resentment towards most dominant women unfairly? Yes.

During those two years I realized how unfair this was...but a large part of that resent or bitterness I held also was merged into this whole hatred of the feminist movement.

It wasn't until after I (not wanting to remain a victum nor hang onto unfounded blame) set out to learn more about feminism. When I learned what the real meaning behind feminism was....that helped me to let go of a lot. I realized that not all women were extremists....and that a majority of women didn't really support the extremists agendas. As to the original message of feminism about equality and fairness, that was something I supported in my own beliefs and went a long way in removing some of the unfounded things I had believed wrongly.

So big deal. Way back when I went through a bad relationship that caused me a lot of issues with women. I feel for the most part I worked through a lot of it. I don't see myself as a victum. I think Richard is right, it is not about blame but accountability.

What I do find interesting though is if I was a woman, who shared the same experience of being new to D/s and a Male Dom would have done the same thing, there would have no doubt been post after post saying how that Dom was a jerk or a wanna be. I find it intersting no one cared to even suggested the possibility that this Domme was or could have been a wanna be.


As far as my comments on radical or militant feminism...I still think my points are valid, and the effect they have on mainstream society. I still think there is a connection and backlash. I still think is explains why alot of vanilla people are searching for D/s today.

Well all out of time for today...got work to do.

 

[Netzach]

But that doesn't change the fact that RJ's observations are correct. In mainstream American society today, if a dominant male openly expresses a desire for a mate who will defer to him and submit to his authority, it is not just his choice that will be criticized. He, himself - his fundamental nature - will be mocked and scorned.

The same thing holds true for submissive females.

Likewise, if I express such a desire to be deferred to based on authority, I will be seen as totally off my rocker. And likewise a male mate of mine will be seen as a vile spineless idiot for admitting to want to do this.

Are we really up against the individualist bootstraps mentality of the West, especially the US?

I think we're all backlash byproducts of that. A world which says there's something wrong if you don't want to go it all alone or if you find comfort in a sense of entitlement. We raise our kids with "who do you think YOU are?" as well as "stand up on your own two feet, for Chrissakes" as major messages.

 

[Netzach]

What I object to is that he blames it on women when I do not believe this is where the blame lies. Like his experience of submission etc., it keeps coming back to victim male, abusive female messages which to me is related more on a personal perception and reality, than a societal norm. Playing victim does not get anyone anywhere, nor is it often appealing to others. If I listen to the message, it comes down to as he says, shutting women up....that to me is oppression and a person who has an issue with assertiveness in women who presumably have overstepped their place and need to be reminded to get back wherer they belong and speak only when spoken to.

Catalina

I dont' understand why anyone is freaking out about separatists and radical feminists. So like, 300 academics who don't set policy and who have contributed little to the practical reality of how people live went off to THINK somewhere and concluded "we don't need no stinking male input." News flash -- fewer people care about it as much as you do.

The average american woman does NOT have a copy of Dworkin or MacKinnon in her purse. The average american self-proclaimed feminist doesn't either.

Oh my God, scary. These are the same people who can't STAND the idea of a Black Literary conference or a Cinco De Mayo party in their town square.

I don't feel the need to be stroked or agreed with or included in everything.

 

[SweetDommes]

Ok, I just have to put my $.02 in. Growing up where I did, I have seen far more masculine men who wanted to be the "head of the household" (their words ... my words would be more along the lines of "Dominant/Top") who were accepted as perfectly normal, than women who wanted to be the heads of the house. Perhaps it's just that there are more rednecks in my stretch of the woods, but there it is.

Not all of America has censured the "masculine male" - far far from it. Around here, any male who even hints that he might not be dominant (doesn't even have to admit submissive desires) is looked down on as "less manly." Any woman who wants to be in charge is seen as "un-feminine" ... hell, we have some around here that if a woman doesn't wear a dress and heels at least once a week, they aren't feminine enough (I believe one comment made on another board was "women all want to be men now").

And now, I've realized how far off of the original topic we are, and I'll step back out into the hall ... LOL

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL, I think the US and Oz would faint from shock if they were subjected to a woman or any other minority group member as leader...they just are not ready for that concept despite the discussions and debates on the possibility. Fortunately many other nations do not have the same problem.

Catalina

 

[alice_underneath]

Likewise, if I express such a desire to be deferred to based on authority, I will be seen as totally off my rocker. And likewise a male mate of mine will be seen as a vile spineless idiot for admitting to want to do this.

Are we really up against the individualist bootstraps mentality of the West, especially the US?

I think we're all backlash byproducts of that. A world which says there's something wrong if you don't want to go it all alone or if you find comfort in a sense of entitlement. We raise our kids with "who do you think YOU are?" as well as "stand up on your own two feet, for Chrissakes" as major messages.

It's hard for me to discount the role of the feminist movement in our shift away from the world of - Father Knows Best, I Love Lucy, men vow to 'love & honor' and women vow to 'love, honor & obey' - to the world in which we live today.

However, you've asked a very interesting question. I never thought about it that way before, but you're right - the "individualist bootstraps mentality" explains a lot about where are now.

Perhaps this is what RJ was alluding to in the conclusion of post #62 on this thread, when he wrote:

I wish this whole business was not merited based on gender but by accpeting that both male and female can be dominant or submissive.

 

[Richard49]

boy has this thread gotten off topic

 

[shy slave]

For Catalina

A few lines from my favourite poet who died in 1796

While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things, The fate of empires and the fall of kings; While quacks of State must each produce his plan, And even children lisp the Rights of Man; Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention, The Rights of Woman merit some attention. Robert Burns

 

[alice_underneath]

A few lines from my favourite poet who died in 1796

While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things, The fate of empires and the fall of kings; While quacks of State must each produce his plan, And even children lisp the Rights of Man; Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention, The Rights of Woman merit some attention. Robert Burns

That's an incredible quote, shy, and one I had not seen before. Thank you for posting it.

Here's a letter from an American woman, writing in the same century as Mr. Burns. I hope it makes you smile....


ABIGAIL ADAMS TO JOHN ADAMS
MARCH 31, 1776:

"I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors.

Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands.

Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.

That your sex are naturally tyrannical is a truth so thoroughly established as to admit of no dispute; but such of you as wish to be happy willingly give up -- the harsh tide of master for the more tender and endearing one of friend.

Why, then, not put it out of the power of the vicious and the lawless to use us with cruelty and indignity with impunity?

Men of sense in all ages abhor those customs which treat us only as the (servants) of your sex; regard us then as being placed by Providence under your protection, and in imitation of the Supreme Being make use of that power only for our happiness."

 

[shy slave]

That's an incredible quote, shy, and one I had not seen before. Thank you for posting it.

Here's a letter from an American woman, writing in the same century as Mr. Burns. I hope it makes you smile....


ABIGAIL ADAMS TO JOHN ADAMS
MARCH 31, 1776:

"I long to hear that you have declared an independency. And, by the way, in the new code of laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make, I desire you would remember the ladies and be more generous and favorable to them than your ancestors.

Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the husbands.

Remember, all men would be tyrants if they could. If particular care and attention is not paid to the ladies, we are determined to foment a rebellion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any laws in which we have no voice or representation.

That your sex are naturally tyrannical is a truth so thoroughly established as to admit of no dispute; but such of you as wish to be happy willingly give up -- the harsh tide of master for the more tender and endearing one of friend.

Why, then, not put it out of the power of the vicious and the lawless to use us with cruelty and indignity with impunity?

Men of sense in all ages abhor those customs which treat us only as the (servants) of your sex; regard us then as being placed by Providence under your protection, and in imitation of the Supreme Being make use of that power only for our happiness."

Yes it made me smile

over 300 yrs, we have had rebellion (individual women throughout time, the sufferage movement, going to war, equal pay etc) but sadly in some respects not alot has changed.
How brave of her to write such a letter at a time when women were not encouraged to have a voice.
Was that letter to her husband or father? They have the same surname.


As for Robert Burns I am a big fan, visit his birth place most years, celebrate Burns night on the 25 January with haggis (one day I will convince Andante to try it !) and named my eldest son after him and Robert The Bruce.
I particularly like one poem called the 'Hen Pecked Husband.' and when drunk I have been known to stand on tables and quote various poems depending on my mood

He loved women, all women, and saw real value in them which comes across in his writing. He clearly saw them as strong people, but he wasn't adverse to writing about how to put them in their place if and when necessary lol
I can almost bore for Scotland on him

 

[raven2]

Yes it made me smile

over 300 yrs, we have had rebellion (individual women throughout time, the sufferage movement, going to war, equal pay etc) but sadly in some respects not alot has changed.
How brave of her to write such a letter at a time when women were not encouraged to have a voice.
Was that letter to her husband or father? They have the same surname.


As for Robert Burns I am a big fan, visit his birth place most years, celebrate Burns night on the 25 January with haggis (one day I will convince Andante to try it !) and named my eldest son after him and Robert The Bruce.
I particularly like one poem called the 'Hen Pecked Husband.' and when drunk I have been known to stand on tables and quote various poems depending on my mood

He loved women, all women, and saw real value in them which comes across in his writing. He clearly saw them as strong people, but he wasn't adverse to writing about how to put them in their place if and when necessary lol
I can almost bore for Scotland on him

Hi shy,

I also am a big fan of Burns and of course, Robert the Bruce. Scottish ancestry. Was over there about 5 years ago and visited both Bannockburn and Burns birthplace in Ayr. Would love to go back again some time.

 

[Kajira Callista]

boy has this thread gotten off topic

lol i thought it was just me

 

[Richard49]

lol i thought it was just me

nope
it's both of us - again

 

[Kajira Callista]

nope
it's both of us - again

guess that makes us odd ones out.......or in a class all by ourselves

 

[raven2]

guess that makes us odd ones out.......or in a class all by ourselves

My guess is the latter.

 

[Richard49]

guess that makes us odd ones out.......or in a class all by ourselves

We are always in a class of our own

 

[SweetDommes]

lol i thought it was just me

Actually, I had posted that observation as well ... so you are definately not the only one.

 

[Kajira Callista]

now we killed the thread!

 

[PapaC1957]

I want to be a Dom how do I start........

Everytime I read about Domination it turns me on ! But how do I get started? Every since wife had hysterectomy has lost interest in sex so I only have Literotica as an outlet. I really need help along the way.

 

[Richard49]

Everytime I read about Domination it turns me on ! But how do I get started? Every since wife had hysterectomy has lost interest in sex so I only have Literotica as an outlet. I really need help along the way.

To start with
IMHO
either you are a Dom or your not

if your talking about being a top
find a top and have them share how to safely use the "toys"

if your sensoulist
start with soft things and build up

if your SO has lost interest
talk to her

 

[catalina_francisco]

A few lines from my favourite poet who died in 1796

While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things, The fate of empires and the fall of kings; While quacks of State must each produce his plan, And even children lisp the Rights of Man; Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention, The Rights of Woman merit some attention. Robert Burns

LOL, thanks....haven't been up to sitting much for the last week so missed this in my short visits.

Catalina

 

[WriterDom]

I would only do casual Dom training.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I would only do casual Dom training.

is that writer dom? *faints*

 

[catalina_francisco]

is that writer dom? *faints*

LOL, and I am joining you...was only thinking about WD a day or so ago...nice to see you again WD.

Catalina

 

[Richard49]

bump te bump