Free clue for dreamland candyass wannbe Doms

[Netzach]

I don't know about you, bro, but my Evil Stick is biiiiiig.

Some, agreed.

But for some, it *is* no?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I don't know about you, bro, but my Evil Stick is biiiiiig.

Some, agreed.

But for some, it *is* no?

Oh, I'm sure there are single Doms here trying to score points with the ladies...I've already got my share, my posting is just me.


Oh, and I went with the Evil Wand, myself...

 

[Mr Blonde]

I saw this thread before the weekend started and it has gone a predictable way.

I think Netzach has it right, honestly. I do not go to events or meetings, so this is a general and not a BDSM answer, but usually any "interference" or "protection" is unwelcome.

How many times have I seen a man accosting a woman in a grocery store parking lot? Cue the "Mighty Mouse" theme song. I run over to save her from this brute only for both of them to end up hurling obscenities at me. Yep, lesson finally learned!

Anyway, I think experienced fem-subs have more fully definied their boundaries than regular women. I would be surprised if many of them needed my assistance[SIZE=0.5]*[/SIZE] and the motivations to act as their protector would be transparently non-altruistic.

[SIZE=0.5]*okay, maybe if she is 5' 100 lbs and the would-be "dom" is 6'6" 350 lbs[/SIZE]

Honestly I just laugh at the misguided attempts by other men to approach women. Their clumsiness just makes me look all the more polished.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think what some people here who choose to attempt to turn this into a melodramatic, over acted out soap opera, minimising the initial thread topic in the process are missing or unaware of, is that from my observation and training, and personal experiences, there is an accepted code of behaviour by both male Dominants and female submissives in public arenas of the lifestyle. One of these is respecting the submissive of another unless invited otherwise....that is no touching, no suggestive talk, no courting. Another is for the submissive to allow her Dominant the right to protect her in a way he sees fit which does not necessarily mean beating of chests or Mighty Mouse costumes, nor does it mean a submissive is a doormat unable to protect herself when needed and in the correct environment.

Dignity and respect come in many forms, often silently and unnoticed...those who see it otherwise IMO I suspect have their own issues, possibly with being comfortable in their own skin or role. If someone wants to live in the vanilla world, fine, but don't try and bring those accepted norms into BDSM and pass them off as lifestyle norms and acceptable, even preferred behaviour, denigrating anyone who chooses to stick with the more traditional roles.

Catalina

 

[Mr Blonde]

Where is the line between helping people who need assistance and being a busybody who wants to get into everyone's business?

Helping someone who seems to be in physical danger or requests assistance = definitely a good thing

Protecting the dignity of your relationship and dealing with issues that are personal to your situation = handle it as you see fit

Assailing random strangers for not adopting your personal code of courtship behavior = crossing the line


I have not been involved with any weak submissives; each was ready to decline repeated unwelcome advances with either a laugh in the face or a punch in the nuts. It is eerie but right now I am remembering how many of them carried mace on their keyring. I am not a mindreader but most of them seemed proud (in a way) to let the would-be suitor know that they were taken or not interested.

And if there are so many undesirable characters at events you attend, it might be time to find a nicer venue or get a better class of associates who share your values and conventions. Seriously, that would be my first reaction to such situations.

Happy for the discussion.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Where is the line between helping people who need assistance and being a busybody who wants to get into everyone's business?

Helping someone who seems to be in physical danger or requests assistance = definitely a good thing

Protecting the dignity of your relationship and dealing with issues that are personal to your situation = handle it as you see fit

Assailing random strangers for not adopting your personal code of courtship behavior = crossing the line

I am not a mindreader but most of them seemed proud (in a way) to let the would-be suitor know that they were taken or not interested.

And if there are so many undesirable characters at events you attend, it might be time to find a nicer venue or get a better class of associates who share your values and conventions. Seriously, that would be my first reaction to such situations.

Happy for the discussion.

Mr. B I find your equations totally puzzling as I thought this was a BDSM forum, not a forum for discussing vanilla situations and how we all deal with them, but maybe it is the early hour and my brain not being in gear yet. As to events I attend, well apart from the recent GT of Lit which was a group of very authentic and class people, I do not attend events or venues. We live an authentic life 24/7 and as we are fairly reclusive we do not build it around the social scene, nor feel the need to validate who we are in that way. That being said, in my search for Master I met many Dominants from years to decades experience in the lifestyle and learnt through their discussions of experiences and preferences, the way things were accepted and not accepted by many 24/7 folk.

They did not push their views onto others, just as I was not, but I was saying don't put down people who live that way by labelling them as egomaniacs and/or weak submissives. It is obvious some people have an issue with female submissives and see them largely as weak and dithering fools...that to me is an ego judgement in itself based on limited knowledge or understanding. A submissive who respects her Dominant's right to protect her in such a situation and setting is neither weak, dithering, or scaredy cat, but is attempting to maintain her role in a difficult circumstance where I am sure most would gladly tell the intruder to shove his balls where the sun don't shine. In a vanilla setting I would and have done this, perhaps a bit more politely to start with, but I am no longer part of the vanilla world so I no longer try to live my life that way, as difficult as the temptation becomes at times.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

It is also worth noting that in my experience, most clubs have a set of rules/protocols which to date have all included not approaching/touching/harassing someone else's submissive/slave without permission. Some have expulsion as a deterrent for any who haven't got their ego's and genitals in check enough to respect the desires of Dominants. As to identifying those who are taken, it is usually obvious by a collar, or the close relationship the submissive exhibits in a variety of ways with the person they are with. Failing that, manners never cost anything so before launching into a suggestive tone of talk, it might be polite to check with the submissive first whether they are spoken for. Seems simple, and in that instance, even a little vanilla hangover of good manners. To me, as tedious as protocol can be, it exists everywhere, religion, courts, politics, and at times often helps deter complete chaos.

C

 

[Netzach]

Ohhh see, I've never been part of this great past of BDSM when everyone followed the same protocols. You know, like guys on the east coast putting keys on the right and guys on the west coast putting them on the left to say "I'm a bottom!" It was all very clear and there were no poseurs once upon a time, and certainly no assholes. Just ask Vi Johnson, a shrinking violet if ever a femsub was.

If a femsub and HER MASTER have worked out a protocol wherein she can't tell someone to fuck off and needs him to do it, mazel tov. Great. My reluctance to step in, however, is clearly my vanilla programming rather than respect for the woman and her ability to take care of herself or have her agreed-to parties do the same (and I don't really care who they are, it's the NON agreed to random third parties I question....) I suppose if I threw myself in harms way and said "leave the lil lady alone" I'd be a real Domme.

Of course, I have issues with femsubs and think they are weak. It's why I have two who adore me. And who don't need me to tell anyone to fuck off, but for whom I definitely would.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I think there is a little confusion here...


I think this thread was started in order for Ezarc to vent about wannabe Doms fucking with his sub, more than a call for all Doms to protect all subs.

 

[Netzach]

Yeah, I think you are right. I made the mistake of failing to just applaud and commiserate, I think that's where we took a wrong turn. My bad.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Yeah, I think you are right. I made the mistake of failing to just applaud and commiserate, I think that's where we took a wrong turn. My bad.

No biggie...I agree that a sub can anjd shoiuld take care of herself...but if the sub has a Dom, there are two people who are gonna be stomping some ass.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ohhh see, I've never been part of this great past of BDSM when everyone followed the same protocols. You know, like guys on the east coast putting keys on the right and guys on the west coast putting them on the left to say "I'm a bottom!" It was all very clear and there were no poseurs once upon a time, and certainly no assholes. Just ask Vi Johnson, a shrinking violet if ever a femsub was.

If a femsub and HER MASTER have worked out a protocol wherein she can't tell someone to fuck off and needs him to do it, mazel tov. Great. My reluctance to step in, however, is clearly my vanilla programming rather than respect for the woman and her ability to take care of herself or have her agreed-to parties do the same (and I don't really care who they are, it's the NON agreed to random third parties I question....) I suppose if I threw myself in harms way and said "leave the lil lady alone" I'd be a real Domme.

Of course, I have issues with femsubs and think they are weak. It's why I have two who adore me. And who don't need me to tell anyone to fuck off, but for whom I definitely would.

Well Netzach, I guess when you make many disparaging remarks about the weakness you see in femsubs just because that is the role they choose, and not all recent remarks either, you are going to create an impression you have little respect for them. Frankly, as to all the other sarcasm relating to tradition and protocol, I am more than pleased I had an all round education on my search which incorporated long term Dominants from the USA but also Australia, Hong Kong, and Europe and surprisingly all had the same things to say about it....don't know about keys, never really been that interested where they kept their keys. Come to think of it, I haven't met a D yet who feels it is necessary to display his keys. Geez, another important American facet of the lifestyle I've missed learning I guess!!! Guess sarcasm is a talent I am learning here, but to be honest I much prefer to discuss issues based on facts, reality, analysis and something resembling courtesy and adult behaviour, even if it means someone does not agree with all I have to say. Take it anyway you feel the need to.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

Well Netzach, I guess when you make many disparaging remarks about the weakness you see in femsubs just because that is the role they choose, and not all recent remarks either, you are going to create an impression you have little respect for them. Frankly, as to all the other sarcasm relating to tradition and protocol, I am more than pleased I had an all round education on my search which incorporated long term Dominants from the USA but also Australia, Hong Kong, and Europe and surprisingly all had the same things to say about it....don't know about keys, never really been that interested where they kept their keys. Come to think of it, I haven't met a D yet who feels it is necessary to display his keys. Geez, another important American facet of the lifestyle I've missed learning I guess!!! Guess sarcasm is a talent I am learning here, but to be honest I much prefer to discuss issues based on facts, reality, analysis and something resembling courtesy and adult behaviour, even if it means someone does not agree with all I have to say. Take it anyway you feel the need to.

Catalina

What the fuck is this about keys? I never have heard a thing about this until now. Someone enlighten me to this, please.

And I need to correct one thing you said Catalina, and I think you just mistyped, ... being a sub is not a role that most of us choose.

Just to be clear, to anyone who does not know me, for the kazillionth time, I am a sub only sexually and to only one Man at a time. I don't think that anyone who knows me or has read my posts would call me weak. Therefore, I don't take offense to statements made about femsubs being weak... those statements do not apply to me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

What the fuck is this about keys? I never have heard a thing about this until now. Someone enlighten me to this, please.

And I need to correct one thing you said Catalina, and I think you just mistyped, ... being a sub is not a role that most of us choose.

Just to be clear, to anyone who does not know me, for the kazillionth time, I am a sub only sexually and to only one Man at a time. I don't think that anyone who knows me or has read my posts would call me weak. Therefore, I don't take offense to statements made about femsubs being weak... those statements do not apply to me.

Think I am with you on all these points ADR...LOL. Submissive Lionheart and proud of it!!!

C

 

[Netzach]

Well Netzach, I guess when you make many disparaging remarks about the weakness you see in femsubs just because that is the role they choose, and not all recent remarks either, you are going to create an impression you have little respect for them.

Now I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Neither would anyone else who reads my comments regularly. I've never said any such thing and your interpretation, is quite frankly pulled from some orifice.

I take it you find vehement disagreement with your ideas and vehement rejection of their presentation as disrespect for your orientation. I abhor weakness in all individuals in which I encounter it, I frankly have no time for it. Fortunately for me, most female submissives I encounter don't display this trait at all. It takes a hell of a lot of guts, pluck, and inner strength to hand over control to another individual. You may think I'm not hip to this paradox, but I really have no clue where you got this impression.

Frankly, as to all the other sarcasm relating to tradition and protocol, I am more than pleased I had an all round education on my search which incorporated long term Dominants from the USA but also Australia, Hong Kong, and Europe and surprisingly all had the same things to say about it....don't know about keys, never really been that interested where they kept their keys. Come to think of it, I haven't met a D yet who feels it is necessary to display his keys. Geez, another important American facet of the lifestyle I've missed learning I guess!!! Guess sarcasm is a talent I am learning here, but to be honest I much prefer to discuss issues based on facts, reality, analysis and something resembling courtesy and adult behaviour, even if it means someone does not agree with all I have to say. Take it anyway you feel the need to.

I was pointing out what I believe to be an essential fallacy. That there is a uniform protocol for "BDSMers" as opposed to "vanilla" people. I don't buy it. I don't buy it because I hang with gay men who do cruise, display keys and hankies, and do all manner of things that would be unintelligible to the majority of "pansexuals" I know, and profoundly pointless to many.

Simply because someone's signals aren't alligned with yours doesn't make them vanilla. Sarcasm is warranted, I think when I see a perfectly rational viewpoint like Mr. Blonde's being dismissed as that of an "outsider." Either one agrees or one doesn't have any inside perspective, I see how it works.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well Netzach, I guess when you make many disparaging remarks about the weakness you see in femsubs just because that is the role they choose, and not all recent remarks either, you are going to create an impression you have little respect for them.

Now I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Neither would anyone else who reads my comments regularly. I've never said any such thing and your interpretation, is quite frankly pulled from some orifice.

Sorry, no...is one of the reasons I took some time off from reading your posts a couple of months back as I had found some of your comments about female subs prejudiced to say the least, but when I read one where you stated something along the lines they were subs because they couldn't make a decision for themselves, I just decided at that time you had some problem you needed to sort out. I am not going to go back 2-3 months of threads searching for it, but I do remember it well and did not mistake the wording which had a couple of more remarks attached about the shortcomings of female submissives. Perhaps it was meant to be directed at certain pockets of the submissive population, but that was not stated so I took the 'female submissive, tag as meaning just that. I apologise if it was meant as anything else, but my imagination can't fathom what that would be.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

Ok. Sure.

Seeing as you are the only one to ever have brought this to my attention or taken me to task for it. I'm sure no one else would have noticed had I said such a thing.

 

[incubus_dark]

About the only universal protocol I've ever seen in the serious BDSM community is that of politeness (most of the so called protocols are really no more than this). The wanna be doms that piss everybody off so much are usually easily identified by an absence of this. In fact, the absence of politeness is one of the most obvious ways to determine arsehole-ness of people in general. It's not infalable, there are polite arseholes (commonly pretentious and opinionated ones whom mistake their theories for laws of nature).

Within the BDSM cirles with which I mix, politeness is the norm. The arse hole who thinks their best chance of easy sex (or any sex at all) is to claim domliness and annoy people is usually dealt with by letting the subs rip them to shreds for fun, while the doms watch the entertainment and offer no more than potential reinforcement should things get out of hand, and perhaps genteel commentary regarding form and the placing of bets. There's nothing more humiliating to a faux-dom's delicate ego than a good display of public rejection by those it mistakenly sees as prey. This also applies to that complimentary class of arsehole that Netzach highlighted, the faux-sub. I also agree with Netzach in that arsehole-ness appears not to be at all gender specific. Can't seem to change it, so why not enjoy it; bring on the clowns and watch the floor show.

Do they give us a bad name? Only if you think that they somehow fit into the same catagory as us. Vanilla peeps might not make such fine distinctions, but then, we already have a bad name to most of the vanilla peeps whom might be inclined to make rash judgements anyway.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ok. Sure.

Seeing as you are the only one to ever have brought this to my attention or taken me to task for it. I'm sure no one else would have noticed had I said such a thing.

Perhaps like I felt at the time, they did not see it being worth their time. From memory it was not one of those out of the blue statements, it followed extensive postings. I actually contemplated starting a whole new thread at the time, and if I am lucky I saved the post so that will save me looking so far I guess if I have. If not, and I find the time I will try and find it if it makes you feel better, but it could take me a few weeks as I don't have much spare time, especially for researching threads I have left far behind.

As to the (I think) inferred questionability of my truthfulness in this posting memory, well I to date have always been able to prove my honesty. Now I just wish you had come to the GT so we all could have met and then you may have seen I am just as out there and honest as I seem to be on screen...what you see is what you get.

C

 

[rosco rathbone]

Is this mainly an online observation?

In person the pushiest males I've met have been "submissive" or up for anything, horny and wanting to be "taught" males.

This jives with what I've picked up from my discourse and intercourse with the subs on the front lines* as well as with regular women everywhere.


*tm nick stone, from a discourse about anal intercourse

 

[Netzach]

I do not have time for my local munches let alone things halfway across the country. I am certain you are exactly as you present here and you can be certain I am, as well. Neither of us should have time to monitor every utterance out of my mouth, I certainly don't but I do know what I do and do not think, and what I do and do not espouse.

The only "problem" or "issue" I have is in being patronized and spoken for. Maybe that's fine for some people, it's not for me.

Whatever I said, the opinions of those I cherish remain intact. I'm sure I can't walk through the world without causing anyone umbrage, particulary those looking for it. In general I think I articulate my stance pretty well. The only time I have disparaged femmes as a whole may be as a very frustrating and attractive set of sexual partners, I imagine those rants could easily be lifted out of context, and I'm sure they will be.

The femmes of the world will survive. Even if none of them will sleep with me and then go home.

 

[dragonhearted]

ok...neutral corners!

 

[Ezarc]

This jives with what I've picked up from my discourse and intercourse with the subs on the front lines* as well as with regular women everywhere.


*tm nick stone, from a discourse about anal intercourse

Nice AV. Can I just keep it to myself?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Nice AV. Can I just keep it to myself?

Ezarc, isn't it flattering to know another admires you so much they want to steal your image.....mmmmm, could have those scarry horror movie connotations too I guess.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I do not have time for my local munches let alone things halfway across the country. I am certain you are exactly as you present here and you can be certain I am, as well. Neither of us should have time to monitor every utterance out of my mouth, I certainly don't but I do know what I do and do not think, and what I do and do not espouse.

Perhaps coming from a land where your nearest neighbour can be a day's drive away has warped my sense of how far is too far, but for us the trip from our hotel in Manhattan to CT and back, was nowhere near across country or half as far as Holland. Would have been wonderful to have been able to meet you though, just as it was to meet the beautiful Lit posters we did....maybe next time

Catalina