God, god, or gawd

[sr71plt]

But a direct name substitute is not a name, and therefore not proper. To Christians, "God" is a name (somewhat altered through the ages, I'm sure. He was probably refered to as "El" some seven thousand year ago). Anything else would be a pronoun, which aren't capitalized.

Sorry, this off the beam. The same principle is in play as:

I said, Mother, we have fleas.

I told my mother she was crawling with fleas.

Ergo, direct name substitute.

You're trying to overcomplicate this. If you think otherwise, please start citing some authoritative sources.

 

[sr71plt]

This is turning out to be an interesting thread, if nothing else. I have been told that in Jewish writings the name God is so devout that early writings used "g*d" to express the name while not wholly spelling it out. Just what I've been told by a Jewish friend.

I initally asked the question in response to writers I've edited for who complained that my capitalizations were wrong. And when challenged, or just uncertain, I ask here.

Thanks for the varied input.

Not g*d, but YHVH, which is the most-used term for God in the Hebrew Tanakh, which is the same as the Christian Pentatuch, which is the same as the opening chapters of the Koran--which all are the unifying first five chapters of the Old Testament shared by Hebrews, Christians, and Muslims--under a shared God. YHVH is the pronunciation of the Hebrew word for God with the vowels taken out as the full name was never to be written out.

 

[CopperSkink]

"Mother" being the title by which the person is addressed. Do we capitalize when we say "my lord" "sir" or "sweety"? Is a nickname to be treated differently than a proper title?

Due to the laws of religious tolerance in this country, any person has a right to declare his- or herself the god of his or her religion, even if s/he is the only member. Do we, then, refer to that individual with a capitalized "God"?

When we, as Christians, say, "dear God," we're refering to a diety by name, the same diety of the Bible. However, religions such as Islam have no such word, as the religion and its text are all mandated to remain untranslated within their original language, where "god" is not a word. The Muslims, along with the Jews and the Catholics and the Mormans, make the same claim that their god is the god of the Bible, whose name is capitalized. However, despite their claims, they've refuted the bible for its simple statment that says, "The whole Bible and nothing but the Bible." Therefore, by definition, the other religions who supposedly worship the same god refute this god by rejecting the Scripture to which He is particular.

Saying it's the same god and it being the same god are two very different things. One thing about this country, as long as we're talking about proper US American English, "God" is a word that only maintains its proper status by refering to the Christian diety to which the country is so partial. Whatever anyone else calls their own private gods or whatever claims they make to be allied with the Christian one, different is different, and therefore no capitalization.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Anything else would be a pronoun, which aren't capitalized.

But they often are, especially by Christians, as in "hallowed be Thy name".

... Due to the laws of religious tolerance in this country, any person has a right to declare his- or herself the god of his or her religion, even if s/he is the only member. Do we, then, refer to that individual with a capitalized "God"?

When we, as Christians, say, "dear God," we're refering to a diety by name, the same diety of the Bible. However, religions such as Islam have no such word, as the religion and its text are all mandated to remain untranslated within their original language, where "god" is not a word. The Muslims, along with the Jews and the Catholics and the Mormans, make the same claim that their god is the god of the Bible, whose name is capitalized. However, despite their claims, they've refuted the bible for its simple statment that says, "The whole Bible and nothing but the Bible." Therefore, by definition, the other religions who supposedly worship the same god refute this god by rejecting the Scripture to which He is particular. ...

And yet there is much evidence of translation and transcription errors in the Christian bible over the years, ignoring the fact that different sects have different contents in their bibles.

... Saying it's the same god and it being the same god are two very different things. One thing about this country, as long as we're talking about proper US American English, "God" is a word that only maintains its proper status by refering to the Christian diety to which the country is so partial. Whatever anyone else calls their own private gods or whatever claims they make to be allied with the Christian one, different is different, and therefore no capitalization.

All these superstitions claim to be the truth and that all the others are wrong, and they all lay down different rules for behaviour, claiming them to be Holy Writ and essential for arrival after death in paradise. Even the newest of all the "religions" (climate change) is the same. And none of them can produce a shred of evidence for any form of "life after death".

 

[sr71plt]

CopperSkink:

If you are going to hang out an editor's shingle here, why don't you buy a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style and use it? This is all covered there. No need (or justification even) for you to fly by the seat of your pants in working with other people's manuscripts.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

A Simple Recap

All of the posts have been interesting indeed, and educational. But, at the end of the day, I think I understand that a writer using "Oh god" is okay, as is writing, "Oh God". Neither is wrong given the writer's intent, and since I can't know, as an editor, what that intent is, then I should accept either one "as long as" the consistency remains.

True?

 

[DearEmma]

All of the posts have been interesting indeed, and educational. But, at the end of the day, I think I understand that a writer using "Oh god" is okay, as is writing, "Oh God". Neither is wrong given the writer's intent, and since I can't know, as an editor, what that intent is, then I should accept either one "as long as" the consistency remains.

True?

Yes..

 

[sr71plt]

All of the posts have been interesting indeed, and educational. But, at the end of the day, I think I understand that a writer using "Oh god" is okay, as is writing, "Oh God". Neither is wrong given the writer's intent, and since I can't know, as an editor, what that intent is, then I should accept either one "as long as" the consistency remains.

True?

I think a reader (and therefore an editor) can tell most of the time whether a common interjection is being used in context rather than a direct reference to God.

 

[_Lynn_]

All of the posts have been interesting indeed, and educational. But, at the end of the day, I think I understand that a writer using "Oh god" is okay, as is writing, "Oh God". Neither is wrong given the writer's intent, and since I can't know, as an editor, what that intent is, then I should accept either one "as long as" the consistency remains.

True?

False.

If an editor can't tell the intent from the context, they maybe shouldn't be editing.

How difficult is it to figure out if its used as a direct reference to God or not?

 

[Over_Lord]

We must hang around with different Americans. Haven't heard the "gaad" pronunciation outside of Boston. And America covers a really, r e a l l y big area beyond Boston.

Then you must 'hang around' with the 2 or three Americans who are heavily influenced by the correct British sounding of the 'o' while the other 300million do indeed say 'gaad'.

Whether you personally can hear that is another matter. It is quite stark to us Brits.

Americans pray to gaad.

Just like there are no 'men' in America, only 'min'.

Just like they have a hard time telling 'ride' from 'wrang'...

 

[sr71plt]

Then you must 'hang around' with the 2 or three Americans who are heavily influenced by the correct British sounding of the 'o' while the other 300million do indeed say 'gaad'.

Whether you personally can hear that is another matter. It is quite stark to us Brits.

Americans pray to gaad.

Just like there are no 'men' in America, only 'min'.

Just like they have a hard time telling 'ride' from 'wrang'...

Umm, no. I've lived in various parts of the states and all over the world (including British-speaking areas), and the only place I heard it pronounced "gaad" is in parts of New England.

But then I watch BBC TV programs with Brits playing American characters, and they uniformily can't get a tone down that anyone in the States uses.

So, I guess it's just you Brits having a tin ear on American pronunciation--as, no doubt, Americans have on the various British dialects. I've found we're not quite so smug about it as the Brits tend to be though.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

False.

If an editor can't tell the intent from the context, they maybe shouldn't be editing.

How difficult is it to figure out if its used as a direct reference to God or not?

Yes, I have no business editing. Pehaps the best advice. More time to write. Liking this. And I didn't even ask her to express this.

 

[_Lynn_]

Yes, I have no business editing. Pehaps the best advice. More time to write. Liking this. And I didn't even ask her to express this.

Of course you didn't. I state my own thoughts and opinions.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Yes, and she agrees. Once I clear my plate I'll be done with such drivel. On to new things.

 

[driphoney]

Then you must 'hang around' with the 2 or three Americans who are heavily influenced by the correct British sounding of the 'o' while the other 300million do indeed say 'gaad'.

Whether you personally can hear that is another matter. It is quite stark to us Brits.

Americans pray to gaad.

Just like there are no 'men' in America, only 'min'.

Just like they have a hard time telling 'ride' from 'wrang'...

Why you have us all figured out, by golly! We certainly don't speak correct British.

 

[auslit]

'gawd' or 'gawwwd' irritates me so much, because it always makes me pause longer than i would like to imagine how exactly they are saying it and the character always turns into a jewish boston girl or a teeny bopper.

god is just simpler or if they are extending the word gooood. *shrugs*

 

[CopperSkink]

I think there's a lesson for us all here: Every time you want to write "god" in your work, it's an opportunity to get creative. Sure, I have characters that like to praise God's name when they come or curse, but there are just some opportunities that are too good to pass up on. I've got some people that prefer, "Holy mother of muck mildew every one of them," (so that was The Dark Crystal; bite me) or "What the jeeping jump-Jesus flip-backwords-flop fuckhead fucktard bitch-wong barkarse faq-faq jerk." Make your audience laugh (at least at you if nothing else) and don't piss anybody off with whatever incarnation of "god" you may have used in its place. Money.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Then you must 'hang around' with the 2 or three Americans who are heavily influenced by the correct British sounding of the 'o' while the other 300million do indeed say 'gaad'.

Whether you personally can hear that is another matter. It is quite stark to us Brits.

Americans pray to gaad.

Just like there are no 'men' in America, only 'min'.

Just like they have a hard time telling 'ride' from 'wrang'...

Why you have us all figured out, by golly! We certainly don't speak correct British.

Which particular UK accent is the correct British sounding of the 'o'?

Is it the flat short 'o' of Yorkshire?
Is it the plum-in-mouth longer 'o' of Oxford?
Is it the rounded long 'o' of South Wales?

Remember that three people, a Cornishman, a rural Yorkshireman, and a man from Larne in Ulster, having a conversation in broad local accents and dialects could hardly understand a word each other says (and that ignores Scots and Welsh accents and dialects).

 

[sr71plt]

I think there's a lesson for us all here: Every time you want to write "god" in your work, it's an opportunity to get creative.

Well, no, that's not the lesson for an editor, CopperSkink. The industry has standardized such terms in order not to disrupt the flow and understanding for the reader.

The lesson for an editor is to buy the Chicago Manual of Style and use it.

As has been posted before, I think it is rarely a problem to determine in context whether "god" is being used as an interjection or as a direct reference to God, the diety.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Okay, I'll bite. I can afford to buy (I think) a CMS, and if it will answer my many questions I may very well do so verse waiting for replies to my questions here. Editors are very good about helping me, but perhaps if I had the "bible" (lowercase okay here?) then this might help me. Is the CMS available at Walmart? Prolly not, so how does one come into possession of this?

I know this post sounds mocking, but I really want to do the right thing when I edit, and also when I write, SR. You've earned my respect, and I hope I have done the same in your mind.

 

[sr71plt]

You should be able to find it at any of the big box book stores (e.g., B&N, Borders) or at Amazon.com in print. I think you can buy an online version too, although I haven't done that.

 

[driphoney]

Chicago Manual of Style Online

There's a free trial, too. You can also do a one year subscription and download the parts that concern you.

Nods to MistressLynn for the heads up on this.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Thanks. Got the "Hard" cover editon for $30.

http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Manual-Style-University-Press/dp/0226104036

 

[oldlover40]

As a Newbie, forgive my gall...

WTF? Started out as a reasonable question about language usage and became a lecture on morals, the U.S. Constitution, and even an assertion that the largest Christian denomination isn't Christian. The question fortunately received a lot of carefully considered answers that may actually help the asker, but the rest of it? Come on people , let's write some smut!

 

[driphoney]

WTF? Started out as a reasonable question about language usage and became a lecture on morals, the U.S. Constitution, and even an assertion that the largest Christian denomination isn't Christian. The question fortunately received a lot of carefully considered answers that may actually help the asker, but the rest of it? Come on people , let's write some smut!

Um, guess you haven't been around long, huh?

I thought it stayed on-topic rather well for this place.