Going from online to in the flesh...

[kayte]

Re: one more thing...

My Sir occassionally posts here on Lit...he has been very supportive of me seeking input from others who have been through this experience...so thanks in advance for being my support group...the BDSM community here in r/l is very small (or I just havent discovered it yet ;p)...

Hi ~ I also initially met my Master online and we have moved to real life. As far as possible as you can being geographically challenged. I do understand that. I do wish the both of you luck.

We met in one of the chat rooms here on Lit. We moved to voice chat and the telephone. Thanks heavens for phone cards.

I traveled to see Him. I have family in the area. That was good, but also created its own challenges.

Our first meeting was for dinner, we had another person with us that we both knew from chat. The three of us had a good time at dinner. That and a good night kiss was as far as it went that night.

I knew when He walked in the place, I had gotten there first, that this was it. So, not only can your little voice warn you, it can confirm things for you.

I had safe calls, I knew His address, all that stuff.

We did get together privately a couple days later. Again I had safe calls. I felt so silly about it. But I did it. And you should too. He made sure that I kept them as He understands.

We have known each other now since 2001. It has been a long time and it is work. But it is worth it.

In time when I can find a job down where He is I will be relocating.

We now see each other when we can, and use the phone often.

I hope some of that helps.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad if my post helps you and it probably helps me to write about it as well. I will probably have more to say later....but let me focus on deceptions (some of which relate to the BDSM aspect).

Her deceptions
1. Misrepresented the extent of her online experience. I was a complete n00b but she had been doing her own version of online dating for five years. She concealed that 95% of her social life consisted of online interaction. I can forgive most of it because she was probably just embarrassed. She did create a "friend" and would attribute certain events to the friend that were in fact her own experiences. (Her friend was experienced with online dating, her friend had once dated out of her race, etc.) I honestly did not care and was sort of concerned that she would think such things would bother me. In her own way she was probably trying to be honest, but if BDSM is built on trust....there ya go!

2. Misrepresented her level of intelligence and sophistication. Very easy to fabricate over the internet. If you usually read Danielle Steele but are talking to a guy who reads Sartre, you can run down to the bookstore and fake it with Cliffs Notes. If you are chatting with someone and they mention a word, you can Google to find the context or look it up with a dictionary. If someone asks if you are familiar with Vivaldi, you can download 100 mb of music at work the next day and have a passing familiarity with his work by the next night. If someone is doing such things, how can you know if you are soooooooooo compatible or not? Some people are curious and always in the mood for exposure to new things, but at what point is it synchronicity for the purpose of seeming more appealing?

3. Misrepresented current status and future goals. I am not saying blatant lies, perhaps just deception by omission. If I volunteer the fact that "I am with a law firm" would you assume I am an attorney? I didn't even ask for details of how she earned a living! I was not expecting wealth or a fabulous career, but when you fantasize about fancy/expensive vacations and don't have money to pay your cell phone....does that hurt the fantasy element of BDSM? We can't go backpacking across Europe if (1) you don't have a passport and (2) you had to borrow money from your mom just to buy the plane ticket to visit me. If you are taking things from online to real life, don't you need to sort of stay in reality and talk about things that can conceivably happen?

In summary, I think all of these deceptions were to hide her own embarrassment about her shortcomings and to make herself more appealing to me. She never completely lied, and even inventing the friend could be a legitimate tool to "feel out my reaction" to controversial things, but at some point it would be better to make everything plain.

My deceptions
1. I hid the fact that I have an ongoing problem with impotence. I never faked a phonesex orgasm with her. I never pretended to be the ultimate stud. But amidst all of our discussions, and based on the fact that I shared several more trivial secrets, I probably should have told her I suffer from impotence 25-50% of the time.

2. I hid my own experience levels with BDSM and anal sex. I see talk on Literotica of dominants pretending to be more experienced....well, I pretended to be less experienced. That was a decision I made because I didn't want to let things get too heavy before we met. It was just a way to delay things a bit. Also, she was very experienced/proficient with anal sex and had done it a thousand times with one of her ex-boyfriends. She asked me my exact experience level. I did not want to lie, but I reduced my stats (five different girls, a total of about 25 times) down to two girls and a total of three failed attempts. She clearly enjoyed the idea that she would be "teaching" me something new. Again, a deception in the level of experience.

3. I hid the fact that I was gathering background information for a fictional story. She knew I did a lot of writing, but I originally replied to her email because I wanted to get a sense of how online dating worked. It was foreign territory to me. I did let her proofread a story I wrote that was about two strangers meeting and having a very positive experience. She liked that story! She probably would not appreciate the other two stories I wrote: a neutral/balanced short story where the female character is based on her personality; and a human frailty story about the anxiety and insecurities two people feel when meeting for the first time through the internet.

In summary, I was just "dabbling" in online dating where she was trying to find a partner. I downplayed my experiences to make her feel more comfortable (which I guess is trying to make her feel better about meeting me). And the impotency....eh, can go either way. But if we were being so honest about other things over the phone, I probably should have revealed this secret about myself.

What does this mean to InnerDarkness? I don't know. I consider the relationship I described to be "successful" even though it had its problems. We did have fun together. People conceal parts of themselves in real life, too. People have different expectations when interacting with others. Are relationships that begin face to face any more honest? Not sure! But starting online with a BDSM aspect, you can create an elaborate fantasy world that is 100x easier to maintain than in real life.

 

[InnerDarkness]

Mr Blonde...I just wanted to let you know that I truly appreciate the time and thought and effort that you put into the post you made.

I have actually done this sort of thing only once before...in college...and I ended up marrying the man!!! Aside from that time and this time (which was totally unexpected LOL) I have always been a "traditional" real life dater.

This situation was completely different and unexpected and came from a friendship based on other things....he wasn't even really interested in issues of BDSM until we began to discuss it. And...fortunately for me....we havent done much yet except actually discuss it. All our sex talk and phone play revolve around very normal sex LOL But he is slowly beginning to assert himself over me in other ways. Ways that I find very acceptable and agreeable. We are taking this slow, because i fully admit i am "less experienced" and he is in the same boat.

We really do view this as a journey that we are taking together. We do a lot of reading together and on our own...thinking and talking about the things we like...or dont like...it is very comforting to be doing this with someone that I had a vanilla relationship with first.

as far as deception or hiding...i have been pretty damn honest from the beginning...which is new for me. Dont get me wrong...i had nothing to ever hide from anyone, but when I would have casual conversation with people before...I never offered up certain things about myself, because why would I? But with my Sir...I feel like there is no reason to hide anything. Hiding things at this point would be futile, because we are meeting in 6 days anyway LOL

I also feel that honesty and openness is the ONLY way to have a D/s relationship, and for me...that honesty started way back when I first met him. We have both shared things with each other that are deeply personal, perhaps even embarassing, but we do it because we want to KNOW each other. We want to make sure we understand how we came to be the people that we are. And...I have shown him every flaw that I have (literally LOL) and he has never once rejected any part of me, which makes me so comfortable that I dont see how I would want to hide anything from him at any point. And....I doubt he would hide anything from me either.

I do think there are times, though, when one can and should gaurd little aspects about themselves...until the time is right...or when it really becomes an issues, but anything that is an out and out lie or is fundamentally wrong in terms of situation-changing deception...well then, I dont play that game

Thanks again so much for your post!! I hope it has helped you as much as it has helped me!!!

 

[Croctden]

Re: Re: Just had a thought

Too late for me??

*blink* *blink*

Do go on...?

He's coming in a few days I thought.

 

[le_kinklet]

Hi Inner Darkness,
Ufortunately my first f2f with my Dommes was not all it was cracked up to be, and it has now ended leaving a bitter taste in my mouth. This person is one thing on the net and another all together in real life.
I could happily and easily submit to Her while it was still an online relationship, but it became clear once we met a couple of times, that she was not who she said she was, and a real disappointment.

At the same time i have met others that i will always love and cherish, the latest being a Mistress from Sydney, but again i am not into cyber so other than talking and a few naughty icons on yahoo messenger that amuse us from time to time, but it is now a friendship more than any thing, and i love her just as much as b4, so i guess there is the good and the bad, i just hope works out for you!!!
Goodluck
~*HuGs*~


PS: i also have a male Minder now so thins lil subby never goes out alone!!!!!!!!

 

[Native Alien]

I will repeat here what I have posted on both the GB and the Playground when this came up.

1.) No matter how silly it seems, and no matter how much of a bother it is, a SAFE CALL is a must do. I don't care how much information you have on a person, it is quite possible to forge a online persona. Make sure that you have a phone number that your safe call can call you back at.

2.) A good self defense course can be priceless if you ever have to use it. Women especially pay heed, men if you have daughters, regardless of their ages, insist on it. The local YMCA here in smallsburg offers them for a small fee. It is time and money well spent.

Okay rave over now.

 

[James G 5]

2.) A good self defense course can be priceless if you ever have to use it. Women especially pay heed, men if you have daughters, regardless of their ages, insist on it. The local YMCA here in smallsburg offers them for a small fee. It is time and money well spent.

Okay rave over now.[/COLOR]

Good points but I will hammer once more what I ALWAYS say for the guys as well....
The guys MUST be careful too! Being bigger/stronger (and you may not be!) than the woman does you NO good if you're sound asleep and she comes at you with a butcher knife (luckily I am a light sleeper), forges an accusation of rape against you (with marks & semen in/on her) to back it up, has a social diesease she lied about (ladies, that one's for you too) or any number of other things. The male/dominant is at risk too!
Safety first folks, playing safe=playing HAPPY!

 

[Native Alien]

James, how sadly but true your statements are. I would think that my post could actually serve us all in good stead to take a heed of. So many places now sell gift certificates for the self defense courses which I have given to all my sister-in-laws at one time or another.

For a man perhaps a gift certificate to a private detective to find out about the woman would be a good thing. You know, to be used like a prepaid calling card only you would be prepaying the amount of time that the detective would use to check out the woman.

 

[Daedalus77]

So now what?

I don't know how many times I've seen this advice asked for and mostly ignored. I've known of first meetings that were wonderful and ones that were harmful. Now that you asked for advice are you going to do anything different than you planned?

D.

 

[InnerDarkness]

Re: So now what?

I don't know how many times I've seen this advice asked for and mostly ignored. I've known of first meetings that were wonderful and ones that were harmful. Now that you asked for advice are you going to do anything different than you planned?

D.

Well, I am definately glad that I had seen the thread that someone else had started about safe calls...I honestly didn't even know what one was, even thought I kind of had some sort of inkling in the back of my mind that I needed to take a similar precaution.

Everything is set as planned. I have made arrangements for him to stay elsewhere rather than my home, just in case...and if things go well, then of course my home is where we will end up staying LOL

I am working on setting up my safe call, and He is setting His up too.

Pretty much everything is in order...I just really appreciated all the thoughts and insights everyone had about everything from safety and safecalls down to the reality of emotion and feeling that can actually exist in online relationships. It gave me a lot to think about and was great conversation fodder for Him and I

Thanks everyone...4 days left!!!

 

[Daedalus77]

I am glad to hear you decided to move the first meet away from your home. As you said you can change your mind about it later.

Best of luck and I hope it turns out to be just what you were waiting for.

D.

 

[Native Alien]

It should continue to be great conversation fodder for you both. There is alot of very sage advice here, and most of it applies in one way or another to the ongoing relationship as well as the one just starting out.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Good points but I will hammer once more what I ALWAYS say for the guys as well....
The guys MUST be careful too! Being bigger/stronger (and you may not be!) than the woman does you NO good if you're sound asleep and she comes at you with a butcher knife (luckily I am a light sleeper), forges an accusation of rape against you (with marks & semen in/on her) to back it up, has a social diesease she lied about (ladies, that one's for you too) or any number of other things. The male/dominant is at risk too!
Safety first folks, playing safe=playing HAPPY!

James I have had to counsel many male subs in that they have been brutally beaten by so called Dommes.

No matter how big and strong you are, if you are incapacitated and/or bound securely, you can be hurt badly.

I have never met one who pressed charges either. They are too ashamed.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Dangerous Dates

Most women are beaten by men they know quite well rather than men they meet online.

Remember, if a guy is an abuser or a psycho, he is probably that way whether he is a good upstanding church going man, or whether he is a computer geek.

Many women and men will set up elaborate networks to meet people online, yet will go home with someone they meet in a bar without blinking. If you are going to be cautious, be cautious all the time.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Dangerous Dates

Remember, if a guy is an abuser or a psycho, he is probably that way whether he is a good upstanding church going man, or whether he is a computer geek.

Many women and men will set up elaborate networks to meet people online, yet will go home with someone they meet in a bar without blinking. If you are going to be cautious, be cautious all the time.

Have to agree here. Has been my argument for a long time when lectured about meeting people on the net instead of a bar etc. Had an interesting discussion with a group of work colleagues over lunch one day just as they were giving me another talk on the dangers because I had coffee with 2 different men in a week in broad daylight and public place...they felt even though the guys were not who I wanted I should continue to date them for a few more dates just as a measure of good manners!!?

They too were dating so I asked a few questions about what they knew about their dates as in full names, addresses, workplace, belief systems, kinks, etc. Turned out they couldn't answer any of the questions about the so called safe dates they had found in bars and slept with, whereas I could answer all on every one of the men I had and hadn't met as yet through online. Unfortunately, but perhaps predictably, they still maintained their way was safer and more logical, and of course more likely to find a suitable and respectable partner. Mmmm...well I never found anything respectable in the first alcoholic husband I had so figured I wouldn't in any others who shared that tendency, so bars already held no interest for me. LOL

C

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Dangerous Dates

Have to agree here. Has been my argument for a long time when lectured about meeting people on the net instead of a bar etc. Had an interesting discussion with a group of work colleagues over lunch one day just as they were giving me another talk on the dangers because I had coffee with 2 different men in a week in broad daylight and public place...they felt even though the guys were not who I wanted I should continue to date them for a few more dates just as a measure of good manners!!?

They too were dating so I asked a few questions about what they knew about their dates as in full names, addresses, workplace, belief systems, kinks, etc. Turned out they couldn't answer any of the questions about the so called safe dates they had found in bars and slept with, whereas I could answer all on every one of the men I had and hadn't met as yet through online. Unfortunately, but perhaps predictably, they still maintained their way was safer and more logical, and of course more likely to find a suitable and respectable partner. Mmmm...well I never found anything respectable in the first alcoholic husband I had so figured I wouldn't in any others who shared that tendency, so bars already held no interest for me. LOL

C

I have heard the same arguments. I had a coworker who is a very religious catholic and she met this guy in choir and they flirted back and forth. After a few dates, she found out (by accident) he was married. Hmm, I wonder when he was gonna let her in on this very important chestnut of information?

Yet, he was not only a liar, but a religious liar.

Somehow lying face to face is more credible that truth over the computer.

Go figure.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Okay, as I sit here at my computer ripping CD's with my trial version of Acoustica 2.998....

My last post gave a very harsh assessment of my sole online to real life experience. Deception might not have been the right word. I believe both of us were trying to be 100% honest. At the time, I kept thinking "I have never been this honest before"....because I was telling her things I had never told anyone else. But laying out all your flaws....admitting past mistakes....trying to share your deepest fantasies....does that really build quality interaction for an actual relationship?

Both people enjoy this feeling of intimacy and it can become addictive. But (as James G5 asked) is it real? In normal life you have to buy groceries, go to work, pay bills, file paperwork when someone steals your car, etc. Real life couples don't have time/energy for non-stop intimacy and soulful revelations on a daily basis. At some point you run out of history to disclose or fantasies to shares, and it comes time to deal with negative issues or grind your way through daily hassles without annoying each other.

I think most of us want to find a person (or persons) with whom we feel compatible. Once you get past the issues of physical safety, then (as has been shown in the replies in this thread) you have to sort out exactly what you have: someone to share your life with (including BDSM?), a very good plutonic friend, a good friend to share good times with (can include sex and BDSM), a great chat buddy...or nothing. I managed to find a good friend to share good times and I don't regret a thing. It was a positive experience that was educational and fun for both of us.

I managed to burn four CD's while thinking/typing....not bad! Anyway, InnerDarkness, good luck when you meet your Sir next week. I hope that sharing outside interests and having a basis for friendship will ensure that both of you enjoy his visit!

 

[Native Alien]

Mr. Blonde, I tend to disagree with your statement that a couple cannot share a revelation everyday. If that be true then that means that they are not learning something new everyday. No matter how trivial that it might be.

This is exactly the kind of thing that most couples need to do everyday. Make the time for the intimacy, not necessarily sex, but the touching and soft talk. In the couples that I have seen do this, it makes a serious difference in the relationship.

 

[James G 5]

James I have had to counsel many male subs in that they have been brutally beaten by so called Dommes.

No matter how big and strong you are, if you are incapacitated and/or bound securely, you can be hurt badly.

I have never met one who pressed charges either. They are too ashamed.

Point taken, I didn't mean to imply ONLY female submissives needed to take care
obviously ANYONE who's put in the vunerable position as a sub is at risk
I've heard male horror stories on that end too
My point was that Top safety is often neglected....there again that goes for either gender, I spoke of it on the male side because I have the experience there and male Doms with female subs seem to feel the least vunerable

 

[Ebonyfire]

Point taken, I didn't mean to imply ONLY female submissives needed to take care
obviously ANYONE who's put in the vunerable position as a sub is at risk
I've heard male horror stories on that end too
My point was that Top safety is often neglected....there again that goes for either gender, I spoke of it on the male side because I have the experience there and male Doms with female subs seem to feel the least vunerable

I personally have not felt vulnerable with any male, sub or vanilla. I always tell them that if they think they want to hit me make it a killing blow or be prepared to die. They just may catch me on a day where I want to do time.

However, it is common sense (I would think) for males and females to protect themselves as they see fit.

I never go anywhere without having at least one person who knows exactly where I am going. It was served Me well these 53 years.

Secrets can be the death of you.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Mr. Blonde, I tend to disagree with your statement that a couple cannot share a revelation everyday. If that be true then that means that they are not learning something new everyday. No matter how trivial that it might be.

This is exactly the kind of thing that most couples need to do everyday. Make the time for the intimacy, not necessarily sex, but the touching and soft talk. In the couples that I have seen do this, it makes a serious difference in the relationship.

Ditto....communication is the key to a great relationship. I have to be attracted to someone on an intellectual level before anything else for it to last, then they have to e the type of person to use that intellect to keep growing as a person which of course means that even after 50 years there will be new views and thoughts to discuss on subjects you have talked about a million times. That interaction to me is one of the most effective aphrodesiacs I have ever known. Thankfully Master is the first man to ever be able to successfully match with this for me, and finds it equally as important to him also.

Catalina

 

[Native Alien]

I feel that if we don't learn then we stagnate, to stagnate is to become complacent, to become complacent is to unbecome. We all need to keep stretching the mental limits as well as the physical. If we can do that and then have a truly interested partner to share that with, we have a relationship that will not grow old, grow feeble, grow tired. Relationships like anything else can become stale. We can begin to take the other person for granted.

This is probably not making any sense to anyone other than me, but I tried to express what I use as a major life rule for me. I want to learn at least one new thing everyday, I make it a point to do just that. So that the mind is as fit as the body is getting to be.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I feel that if we don't learn then we stagnate, to stagnate is to become complacent, to become complacent is to unbecome. We all need to keep stretching the mental limits as well as the physical. If we can do that and then have a truly interested partner to share that with, we have a relationship that will not grow old, grow feeble, grow tired. Relationships like anything else can become stale. We can begin to take the other person for granted.

This is probably not making any sense to anyone other than me, but I tried to express what I use as a major life rule for me. I want to learn at least one new thing everyday, I make it a point to do just that. So that the mind is as fit as the body is getting to be.

I can relate. Always get strange looks when I say not only do I want to learn, crave learning, but I WILL continue learning even when on my deathbed.

Catalina

 

[InnerDarkness]

about learning...

One of the reasons I chose to work in an environment of Higher Education is just for that reason....the constant ability to learn more and new things...and not just "class" type learning, but just the chance to interact with different kinds of people. I enjoy meeting people, learning about their differences and seeing what I can do to better myself as a result of knowing them.

Unfortunately I do not often go much beyond getting to know someone on an acquaintance basis all that often, but when I do, it is special. And that is how I feel about my friend, my lover and my Sir (even if it is just online for now )...he had stimulated me intellectually long before any of this "other stuff" came into the picture.

I have always said that knowledge is power....

 

[James G 5]

The day I stop learning is the day I die