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" Hair Metal" vs Grunge

Grunge or Hair Metal?

  • Hair Metal

    Votes: 9 42.9%

  • Grunge

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Marla1977 said:
People act like in retrospect "Hair Metal" was this cringeworthy, horrid thing that NEEDED to die.

But I grew up on "Hair Metal". I was a metalhead as a teenage girl. From early 1989 until early 1994. My favorite bands were Cinderella, Poison,Guns N Roses, Warrant, Winger, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Slaughter, Skid Row, Ratt, FireHouse, Motley Crue and Aerosmith. My older sister( 4 years older than me) was into hard rock and Heavy Metal so i always heard things around the house like Ratt , Motley Crue , Def Leppard, Quiet Riot , Dokken , Judas Priest , W.A.S.P., etc. .

.
Click to expand...

Slightly off-topic, but last summer my ex-gf's 20-something daughter rented a large beach house in Santa Monica from AirBnB with a large group of friends.

Asked her if she liked the place, she said she did, but the game room in the place had two gold records on the wall by someone she'd never heard of, "Dokken".

Landlord's name was Don Dokken.
 
Dribble said:
Anyone that looks at one musical genre and says....this is the reason why another musical genre disappeared, is an idiot. Look at the other genres that started topping the charts. You didnt like them? Tough...others did obviously. And the industry is about one thing...making money. Real music, and popular music, are not always one of the same.

I saw Aerosmith during the Rocks, Toys in the Attic heyday. Several times. They sucked.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that it wasn't just grunge that killed hair metal, the 90's opened the gates for music that influenced the alternative scene and alternative rock. Then there was the electronic and hip hop scenes that exploded too, and huge solo artists like Tori Amos, Bjork, Beck. So how could hair metal or even traditional rock could compete with all that?

But personally, I cannot stand Grunge and my music life was hell for about 3 or 4 years in the early to mid 90's when that stuff was all over the place. 1993 through 1996 seemed like a three-year funeral to me. I think the reason so many non hair metal fans hate bands such as Motley Crue, Bon Jovi and Def Leppard is because they were such phenoms and have enjoyed HUGE success. They (non hair metal fans) didn't like the music to begin with, and then had to watch the aforemetioned bands sell 10 million albums (or more) each, and get non-stop play for a full decade on most radio stations and MTV. I'm sure it was frustrating.
 
Marla1977 said:
Nirvana ruined rock & roll.
Click to expand...

Tha fuck?? They killed glam bands.

Not rock and roll, which is better off today than at any other point in history....thanks internet. :cool:

We've got better 70's rock than the 70's did.



Hal9000_ said:
Also, how did Nirvana ruin anything? Metallica "black album" was the true demise.

:p
Click to expand...

LOL...it didn't.

Ehh, I love the guys but the band was never the same post Cliff.

Hal9000_ said:
How can we forget the classic?

Slayer..of course. Sepultura?

Can't forget some Cannibal Corpse. Nuclear Assault?

There's always room for Voivod.

But one of my favs...

Celtic Frost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41PxFzoqULU
Click to expand...

All classics...

You left out the King though :cool:

 
I tried to like hair bands, but I was in middle school, impressionable. The first time I heard 'Bleach' in my buddies basement... It changed my life. That one album spurred my tastes and opinions. It still is part of me to this day. It opened up a whole new world of music that had been closed off by wigs, makeup, squealing vocals, annoyingly long guitar solos. I don't dis those dudes tho, they were very musically talented, products of their time. Plus, I Iove depressing music! It helps when I'm not doing so well. Feeling down? Pop on Elliott Smiths 'Basement on the hill' album. That shit will cheer you right the fuck up!
 
juttjaw said:
I tried to like hair bands, but I was in middle school, impressionable. The first time I heard 'Bleach' in my buddies basement... It changed my life. That one album spurred my tastes and opinions. It still is part of me to this day. It opened up a whole new world of music that had been closed off by wigs, makeup, squealing vocals, annoyingly long guitar solos. I don't dis those dudes tho, they were very musically talented, products of their time. Plus, I Iove depressing music! It helps when I'm not doing so well. Feeling down? Pop on Elliott Smiths 'Basement on the hill' album. That shit will cheer you right the fuck up!
Click to expand...

Depressing music, huh?
Listen to Cemetary - By my own hand. It’s out there.
https://youtu.be/gOUa0o2joF0
🐾Kant
 
Dribble said:
Not even close. I grew up between Detroit and Cleveland. Every band toured here. I am older than you. I saw all the pre-MTV bands. Zep, Black Sabbath, Rainbow, BOC, Grand Funk, Foghat, Tull, J Geils, Seger, Who...each a niche of their own. But they commanded their audience and they were musicians first and foremost. I also saw most of the bands you mentioned. Not...even...on...a...good...day did they compete. If you had never seen what came before...how can you compare?

Grunge was the antithesis of the bands you talked about. I was in Portland....I saw the movement before it was. Why was it a success? If you had seen a show, you would understand. It was never about money. Those that sold out...were ostracized.

Music...is alive. Pop changes from whatever it was to something different every 5 years. There are some truly amazing new musicians out there now. Music is in good hands
Click to expand...

My god I miss my youth. I guess i am emotionally hurt by what happened in the 90's. 80's/early 90' were such fun times to be alive and a fan of Heavy Metal music. Musicians playing real instruments, there was a sense of family and community in the scene, people went to these shows to have fun actually enjoy the music, no one had stupid smartphones pointed at the stage. Compare the gutter shit that is popular today to " hair metal" bands, mumble rappers, boy bands and a bunch of social media personalities pretending to be Mariah Carey. All because Nirvana managed to dethrone heavy metal and rock.
 
Marla1977 said:
My god I miss my youth. All because Nirvana managed to dethrone heavy metal and rock.
Click to expand...

I think you’re missing the point here. Music evolves over time going through trends. Good music will always be good music. I was too young to experience Pink Floyd, but they’re one of the most iconic, influential bands of all time. Nirvana came along in the early 90’s when the music scene was tired and looking for something different. Grunge wasn’t the only shift in music at that time. Those of us that abandoned hair bands didn’t all latch onto grunge bands. I was a bigger fan of Alice In Chains over Nirvana, but in the early 90’s, I branched out, listening to Pantera and the underground Death Metal scenes in Florida and Sweden with bands like Death, Obituary, Deicide, Sepultura, Entombed, Tiamat and Hypocrisy, etc.
🐾Kant
 
Grunge was the ugly red-headed stepchild of stagflation...


;) ;)


Then the economy turned around, the musicians got rich and it just died.
 
Kantarii said:
I think you’re missing the point here. Music evolves over time going through trends. Good music will always be good music. I was too young to experience Pink Floyd, but they’re one of the most iconic, influential bands of all time. Nirvana came along in the early 90’s when the music scene was tired and looking for something different. Grunge wasn’t the only shift in music at that time. Those of us that abandoned hair bands didn’t all latch onto grunge bands. I was a bigger fan of Alice In Chains over Nirvana, but in the early 90’s, I branched out, listening to Pantera and the underground Death Metal scenes in Florida and Sweden with bands like Death, Obituary, Deicide, Sepultura, Entombed, Tiamat and Hypocrisy, etc.
🐾Kant
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In reality back in 1992 there was very little difference between a band like Skid Row and a band like Alice in Chains (esp. given AIC's roots). And Pearl Jam's guitarists were avowed Aerosmith fanatics. MAN IN THE BOX is my favorite Alice in Chains song.
They make it seem like once Nirvana's Nevermind was released it literally shattered the glam/sunset strip sound which is complete bullshit. Guns N Roses' Use your illusions were released around the same time as Nevermind and they shitted on Nirvana. It wasn't until early in 1993 when it Grunge started to outrun the Glam L.A sound. Def Leppard released Adrenalize in 1992 that was arguably selling more than Nirvana. I bought Adrenalize at a midnight sale on it's release day. It debuted at # 1 in the states and sold over 3 million. Let's Get Rocked is an earworm that was in my head probably all of 1992 as it was everywhere. Tonight, Stand Up, and Tear It Down are my favorites on the album. I've always loved it, even if not as much as some of their other albums. Given they were dealing with the loss of one of their founding guitarists, the pressure to compete with the success of Hysteria, and that it came out at the height of the grunge movement, it's speaks volumes that the album came out as well as it did - both artistically, and commercially. I was 15 in 1992 and in high school, and it was very popular. Nirvana and the like came across as very amateurish at that time. Something any kid in school could do in their garage. My high school was all about the Use Your Illusions and the Black Album at the time, but Soundgarden and AIC were getting up there. I really liked Adrenalize when it came out, I still like it, but obviously it doesn't measure up to the standard set by Pyromania and even more so, Hysteria. It did sound like Hysteria part II, but without the refinement and finesse of its predecessor.

I actually think it had been regarded a bit higher (and sold better), had it come out a year earlier before Metallica, Use Your Illusion and Nirvana and what have you. Still, it spent 5 weeks atop the Billboard Top 200, shipped triple platinum in two months or so, spawned five Top 100 hit singles and saw the band's longest ever tour (241 dates playing to over two Million people). Ended up selling 3 million in the states and not all of that was in the month of April. I think it sounded current throughout the summer and fall. Make Love Like A Man got heavy rotation on Mtv that summer and Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad got a lot of radio play that Fall. Bon Jovi's Keep the Faith album came out in Nov and went double platinum into 1993. Of course these figures are far less than Leppard and Jovi had sold with previous outings and it was clear only their strongest fans were buying these but at least they still had that base. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=TAqZb52sgpU https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=aQSpNQznfRI
 
juttjaw said:
I tried to like hair bands, but I was in middle school, impressionable. The first time I heard 'Bleach' in my buddies basement... It changed my life. That one album spurred my tastes and opinions. It still is part of me to this day. It opened up a whole new world of music that had been closed off by wigs, makeup, squealing vocals, annoyingly long guitar solos. I don't dis those dudes tho, they were very musically talented, products of their time. Plus, I Iove depressing music! It helps when I'm not doing so well. Feeling down? Pop on Elliott Smiths 'Basement on the hill' album. That shit will cheer you right the fuck up!
Click to expand...

When grunge came in, rather than it being more about the music, it became even more about "the look". Musicianship and musicality went totally down the toilet. I admit that i miss the 80's/early90's with a passion! I was a teen in this era LATE80S/EARLY90S. Everyone was happy.....the music was happy and upbeat.....and the occasional power ballad to get over you first boyfriend. Great music not to remind you of your problems.....but to make you feel good, laugh, and enjoy life! Teen Spirit hit in the fall of 1991. It wasn't an overnight thing, but 1992 saw a quick rise in the grunge bands. I remember noticing how depressing music became around that time. Around 1994, I remember Korn, Wu Tang Clan, Dr Dre, Tool, and Nine Inch Nails on heavy rotation on MTV. The 90s became an angry time, and many of those grungies died of heroin overdoses. Go to a bar today and what do you hear? Poison, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue etc. Party songs. You won't be hearing Nirvana covers. And everyone wore flannels and wallowed in self pity back then.

How do we go from bands like Guns N Roses, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Motley Crue doing sold out stadium gigs of tens of thousands to not even finding a mention of metal in popular culture? A lot of modern metal has just gotten too radio unfriendly to get a lot of mainstream attention and air-time. Screaming vocals turn a lot of people off.
80's/early90's were golden age of metal? There were a ton of good metal bands in the 80's. Abundance of bands were releasing almost consistently awesome albums. The 80's/early 90's was the best time for metal because it was everywhere, the age was metal. Stadium tours, albums in the charts, the era of high sales, magazines, fan clubs. So many amazing underground bands were still out there. Iron Maiden, Motley Crue, Poison, Def Leppard, Guns n Roses, Metallica, Bon Jovi, Dio and Ozzy were kings! .

I resent that Nirvana were practically overnight anointed the teacher's pet of MTV and the music industry, at the expense of a lot of other Heavy Metal bands who were instantly blackballed. This was a major change from the 80's/early 90s where MTV catered to all different audiences a little bit with their programming and specialty shows like Yo MTV Raps and Headbangers Ball. Then MTV instantly threw that all away when they crowned Nirvana. God, they still make the emergence of Nirvana seem like the Beatles appearing on Ed Sullivan or some shit and sorry folks I just do not see it. I hated the way the situation was handled and the way the band was managed and propped up and I always will.And so many bands followed the Nirvana formula. Guitar starts off clean, the singer sounds like he just woke up and has a hangover, then the distortion kicks in and all you hear is screaming screaming and more screaming. The only guitar solo sounds like someone is castrating a bull, and you can't understand a word the singer is saying. Weird Al did a perfect video of smells like Nirvana. Even tho he has just joking around like he always does he was telling the truth in that video. After grunge exploded it carried over into post grunge then to nu metal. And because of that that's why we have rap,pop,and indie style of music are on the charts. Glam metal musicians were honest. At least they could play guitar. What's the last song that even resembles a Rock anthem?
 
juttjaw said:
I tried to like hair bands, but I was in middle school, impressionable. The first time I heard 'Bleach' in my buddies basement... It changed my life. That one album spurred my tastes and opinions. It still is part of me to this day. It opened up a whole new world of music that had been closed off by wigs, makeup, squealing vocals, annoyingly long guitar solos. I don't dis those dudes tho, they were very musically talented, products of their time. Plus, I Iove depressing music! It helps when I'm not doing so well. Feeling down? Pop on Elliott Smiths 'Basement on the hill' album. That shit will cheer you right the fuck up!
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmAY059TTY Since Kurt Cobain's death, Nirvana has attained a legendary sort of status that they definitely didn't have when KC was alive, and it has also eclipsed how big GnR were at their peak. Guns'n'roses were the bigger band. they had bigger concerts and the hype around Use Your Illusion albums was HUGE. At the time, GnR was treated as a superstar band. I was a teen in 1992 (the year both UYI1&2 and Nevermind had been out for a while) and in my class G'N R (as well as Def Leppard) was massive with a bunch of hits while Nirvana was a cool side-thing with one big hit that most people liked but not obsessed over. That's how I remember the moment of the releases. A couple of years later G N' R was no longer cool and Nirvana was the ultimate cool. During the time period, 1991-1994, Guns N' Roses sold more records and sold more tickets than Nirvana. And that's even with GnR being dormant from 1994 on. GnR headlined stadiums on their own, Nirvana played stadiums at a few festivals with 25 other bands. GnR played 4 sold out nights at the Forum in 1991, Nirvana was playing clubs at the time. Even at Nirvana's height I don't think they sold half as many tickets as Guns N' Roses. Nirvana played clubs, 3,000-5,000 seat venues, and some arenas on their last tour. GnR were playing huge arenas and stadiums at the same time, with many multiple dates in big cities. And I'm just using GnR as an example, there were other bands at the time that were just as big. GNR were bigger back then, no doubt. GNR sold more records and I think had a more worldwide appeal than Nirvana. Going on that alone Guns N' Roses was the bigger band and much more larger than life than Nirvana. Anyway, the "Illusion" period was positively huge for Guns N Roses - much, much bigger than even the Appetite era.

GnR were playing stadiums while Nirvana played arenas and large theatres. They fronted every magazine , every time you put MTV on it was G n R. Guns' songs, musicianship, diversity and raw talent were superior to Nirvana, plus they appealed to a wider audience. They were rooted in Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith, so many older generation classic rocks fans also loved them, not just the kids. Back in 1992, GNR was the biggest band in the world, period. Nirvana was just the quintesential hipster band and after Kurt comitted suicide they obtained immortal status. After '94 GNR stopped being relevant, while Nirvana was still talked about a lot. But GNR sold more records and tickets and were more "mainstream" .
 
Hair bands weren't bad, but they were susceptible to over indulgent ballads and guitar solos. Grunge itself was a marketing word for independent music and the marketing and money making off of those Seattle bands. Music in 1990 wasn't diverse. By 1992, it was incredibly diverse.
 
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