Historical persons challenge -- the discussion

[legerdemer]

Congratulations, all!

My own votes went to Estlin and Radium Girls (despite that last line). The Librarian, Paracosm, and Blues for #25 all seriously vied for my vote.

This was a very interesting challenge. And particularly challenging (at least for me).

 

[butters]

It's riddled with clues. William McKinley was the 25th president. He kept in place the brilliant policies of Lincoln (the Emancipator) and like Lincoln, took a bullet for his trouble. The assassination of McKinley ushered in an era of bad presidents.

McKinley was an advocate of the Pan-American Railway, which would have connected the US with every nation of south and central American by rail ("an iron embrace"). It was part of the excitement for infrastructure building around the US Centennial celebrations in Philadelphia 1876. General Joshua T. Owen proposed an alliance of the US and Russia for "girdling the globe with a tramway of iron", which inspired the "lovely girdle." After McKinley's assassination, the plan was abandoned.

The reference to the mountain is, of course, Mt. McKinley, which was recently re-named Denali.

I called the poem a "blues" because of the bitter-sweet quality. The man's place in history is assured, even if no one knows or cares. I do, of course.

been working 2 people's jobs since june with barely a day off, so it is regretful but not surprising i didn't have time to delve into any of entries' histories. so i'm really glad you put it here for me to read, because it illustrates exactly how and why it all tied together. congratulations

 

[Piscator]

Congrats to all scribblers and Ah for hosting the challenge. I apologize for my virtual inconsistency but travel and work have limited my 'spare' time.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Thank you AlwaysHungry, this has been a very interesting challenge and the huge variety of subject and style proves that. Thank you too, to all the participants for such great work, it was truly hard to make choices.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

GM, hear my plea: please explain "Unkulunkulu".

 

[oggbashan]

GM, hear my plea: please explain "Unkulunkulu".

Unkulunkulu (isiZulu: the very great/high one) is the Supreme Creator in the language of the Zulu people.

In classical, pre-colonial Zulu myth, uNkulunkulu brought human beings and cattle from an area of reeds. He created everything, from land and water to man and the animals. He is considered the first man as well as the parent of all Zulu. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unkulunkulu

My understanding of the poem is that the Zulu will eventually have revenge on the Africaners for apartheid...

 

[greenmountaineer]

It's riddled with clues. William McKinley was the 25th president. He kept in place the brilliant policies of Lincoln (the Emancipator) and like Lincoln, took a bullet for his trouble. The assassination of McKinley ushered in an era of bad presidents.

McKinley was an advocate of the Pan-American Railway, which would have connected the US with every nation of south and central American by rail ("an iron embrace"). It was part of the excitement for infrastructure building around the US Centennial celebrations in Philadelphia 1876. General Joshua T. Owen proposed an alliance of the US and Russia for "girdling the globe with a tramway of iron", which inspired the "lovely girdle." After McKinley's assassination, the plan was abandoned.

The reference to the mountain is, of course, Mt. McKinley, which was recently re-named Denali.

I called the poem a "blues" because of the bitter-sweet quality. The man's place in history is assured, even if no one knows or cares. I do, of course.

I really liked this because it was a guessing game, and, of course, the diction was good too. The clue was in the mountain for me.

I'm paraphrasing the well-known poet Robert Frost here who said something to the effect of: poetry ought to be delight in discovery.

It was more, however, than a mere puzzle. It made think how pop-culture will often make demons or heroes out of political leaders (or in this case pretty much a ho-hum president) when history often proves otherwise.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Unkulunkulu (isiZulu: the very great/high one) is the Supreme Creator in the language of the Zulu people.

In classical, pre-colonial Zulu myth, uNkulunkulu brought human beings and cattle from an area of reeds. He created everything, from land and water to man and the animals. He is considered the first man as well as the parent of all Zulu. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unkulunkulu

My understanding of the poem is that the Zulu will eventually have revenge on the Africaners for apartheid...

I did read the Wikipedia article -- it was first stop on my quest. But I would like GM to explain the poem by that name, not the eponymous deity. In particular, I would like to know who the historical person is.

 

[greenmountaineer]

GM, hear my plea: please explain "Unkulunkulu".

I admit to stretching the rules a bit here. The historical figure was the metaphorical Christ, not the false Jesus of the Trekboers mentioned in the poem. As you may know, the original settlers were Huguenots, followers of Calvinism, a tenet of which is that only a few are among the elected for heaven. It's easy for me to see how that was a rationalization for dominating the natives and implementing apartheid.

I did make one error which probably contributed to your confusion. "Bandele," the Christ figure being executed, is a familiar name north of the Transvaal in Nigeria. The Zulu equivalent is "Bandile" which one source incorrectly labeled as Zulu. I should have looked at other sources. They both, however, mean "Not from here."

Tod's comment earlier in this thread "hit the nail on the head."

 

[Seanathon]

seanathon, not sure if your subject was as influential as maybe some other written about, but i absolutely adore your poem. it feeds me, and there's not one word i'd change.

Kudos to all who took part, writing or commenting, and especially to AH for suggesting and organizing the challenge.

For some reason, Marie Curie was the first person who popped to mind when I read the line: Write a poem as a tribute to an historical personality, one who left an indelible mark on humanity, for better or for worse.

Radium Girls was the result and I appreciate the feedback left for it (particularly the comments regarding the last line).

At some point later in the challenge AH made a remark about expecting tributes to great poets. And for me, when I hear great poet, P.K. Page always comes to mind. Knowing there is no greater tribute than the work a poet leaves behind, I intended my poem to be a signpost to my favorite of her works: Autumn.

I tried to write it as a single-stanza glosa (if there is such a thing). As some guessed, I am Canadian and Pat was a well-known and well-loved local poet. I wasn't sure, even with her name in the title, how many here would know of her. I was pleased to see how many did.

 

[greenmountaineer]

Kudos to all who took part, writing or commenting, and especially to AH for suggesting and organizing the challenge.

For some reason, Marie Curie was the first person who popped to mind when I read the line: Write a poem as a tribute to an historical personality, one who left an indelible mark on humanity, for better or for worse.

Radium Girls was the result and I appreciate the feedback left for it (particularly the comments regarding the last line).

At some point later in the challenge AH made a remark about expecting tributes to great poets. And for me, when I hear great poet, P.K. Page always comes to mind. Knowing there is no greater tribute than the work a poet leaves behind, I intended my poem to be a signpost to my favorite of her works: Autumn.

I tried to write it as a single-stanza glosa (if there is such a thing). As some guessed, I am Canadian and Pat was a well-known and well-loved local poet. I wasn't sure, even with her name in the title, how many here would know of her. I was pleased to see how many did.

P.K. Page got me reading more of her poems, Sean. You're good. I hope we see more of your writing and commentary on PF&D.

 

[todski28]

I wish this challenge had illicited a response from me poetically but I just couldnt get into it. Seeings as history well anything educational related fails me

Thank you to all the entrants there was some very good writes and I learnt some history

 

[butters]

Unkulunkulu (isiZulu: the very great/high one) is the Supreme Creator in the language of the Zulu people.

In classical, pre-colonial Zulu myth, uNkulunkulu brought human beings and cattle from an area of reeds. He created everything, from land and water to man and the animals. He is considered the first man as well as the parent of all Zulu. He taught the Zulu how to hunt, how to make fire, and how to grow food.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unkulunkulu

My understanding of the poem is that the Zulu will eventually have revenge on the Africaners for apartheid...

ty oggs

I admit to stretching the rules a bit here. The historical figure was the metaphorical Christ, not the false Jesus of the Trekboers mentioned in the poem. As you may know, the original settlers were Huguenots, followers of Calvinism, a tenet of which is that only a few are among the elected for heaven. It's easy for me to see how that was a rationalization for dominating the natives and implementing apartheid.

I did make one error which probably contributed to your confusion. "Bandele," the Christ figure being executed, is a familiar name north of the Transvaal in Nigeria. The Zulu equivalent is "Bandile" which one source incorrectly labeled as Zulu. I should have looked at other sources. They both, however, mean "Not from here."

Tod's comment earlier in this thread "hit the nail on the head."

and now i like it even better as for tods' hitting the nail on the head, he has good instincts - and they, unlike book-lore, cannot be learned. honed, trusted, yep. it's all there in him and his comments are always worth considering.

ok, tods, you can send the dosh via paypal

Kudos to all who took part, writing or commenting, and especially to AH for suggesting and organizing the challenge.

For some reason, Marie Curie was the first person who popped to mind when I read the line: Write a poem as a tribute to an historical personality, one who left an indelible mark on humanity, for better or for worse.

Radium Girls was the result and I appreciate the feedback left for it (particularly the comments regarding the last line).

At some point later in the challenge AH made a remark about expecting tributes to great poets. And for me, when I hear great poet, P.K. Page always comes to mind. Knowing there is no greater tribute than the work a poet leaves behind, I intended my poem to be a signpost to my favorite of her works: Autumn.

I tried to write it as a single-stanza glosa (if there is such a thing). As some guessed, I am Canadian and Pat was a well-known and well-loved local poet. I wasn't sure, even with her name in the title, how many here would know of her. I was pleased to see how many did.

please, write here more often. i truly enjoyed both your entries.

 

[butters]

on a wheel and a prayer

before jesus was a twinkle
in some god's eye
a chinaman gave thanks
to whomever invented the wheel
meaning he could shift the loads
that otherwise broke his wife's back
and meant there was more chance
of hot rice with fish before bed

after all, as history notes,
so much depends
on the wheelbarrow


didn't have a clue what to write about, then briefly tinkered with the joan of arc theme before giving up on that since the phrase or two i had didn't do justice to the factual history. so, thought i'd write an homage to the generic 'guy who invented the wheel' but got sidetracked by the invention of the wheelbarrow - way before christianity was born. some chinese emperor is credited for its invention, but politics and human nature being what they are i'd like to think it was more likely someone in a rather more humble position that came up with the idea (necessity's the mother of invention), and was giving his own thanks from a muddy field to the inventor of the wheel. and, finally, how could i not chuck in a WCW allusion having googled 'wheelbarrow' and read how its use affected historical events!

so, yeah, that stuff - looks longer typed out than the more rapid ripple-spreading it was in my head. don't regret writing this one at all but i can entirely see why some far more interesting pieces earned the votes!

 

[pelegrino]

Congratulations to the winners and to all participants!
I enjoyed very much every entry and I learned quite a few facts that I didn't know!
Thanks to everyone and a big thanks to AH for organizing and making it all possible!

 

[Magnetron]

Butters was correct about Final Insight being about Nostrodamus. I actually wrote it 10 years ago, but was never satisfied with it. I'm still not. At least the challenge pushed me to work on it some more.

 

[greenmountaineer]

The Librarian is about Casanova. I don't believe many people know much about his life (e.g. his first name, Giacomo, and being a librarian for an aristocrat at one point), but just about everyone knows what a "Casanova" is.

 

[pelegrino]

I considered these three submissions to be going back in time by leaps of about 900-1000 years (for structural reasons).

From the Earl's Point of View


Lord Gavestone's homosexual relationship with Edward II of England is still disputed by a few (pathetic imo) historians, but still they don’t doubt that this relationship was very destructive for the country. Unfortunately after Gavestone's execution by the earls, Edward II pulled England through more vindictive civil wars and he adopted as a new lover an even more destructive influence in the face of Hugh le Despenser. These state of affairs was stopped with the invasion of England by Edwards's wife Isabella and her lover lord Mortimer.

Historical speculation/implication: If Edward II was more relaxed about his homosexuality and if he had not been married to Isabella perhaps England would not have lost so many lands to France during his reign, thus making it unnecessary for Edward III to claim the French crown and start the 100 war.

Excerpts from "The Fantastic Story of Saint Sergius & Saint Bacchus"

Although I started this poem as one of my "Brief Chronicle" series involving only the abbess incident, it grew into larger proportions and I want to do something different with it now:
No one knows the true story of Sergius and Bacchus, but the insinuation that they were gay is very recent historically, sounds pathetic (in a politically correct way) and it is invented only to give comfort to yet non relaxed gay Christians or gay military men.
Anyhow, it is by necessity a never ending story as these two personages were sanctified, therefore immortal.
My narrative (still vastly incomplete) follows the outline of a long immensely funny, yet seriously theological novel by Michael Karaghatsis. I am not aware of an English translation for this novel but its thread goes as follows:

Sergius and Bacchus as Roman commanders participate in the big persecution of Christians ordered by Eastern co-emperors Diocletian and Valerian. Sergius has an affair with the abbess which results in her loss of faith and suicide.
Sergius and Bacchus spare the lives of all captive Christians and return peacefully to Alexandria.
Sergius feels great remorse and loss about the abbess, Bacchus feels easy.
Sergius falls in love with a Christian girl and marries her. After a few years she dies and Sergius feels again great loss.
Eventually he adopts the Christian faith. Bacchus follows his lead as always out of friendship and comradeship. They both become celibate.(the time is probably ripe as the heathen emperors have been defeated and Constantine I is consolidating his rule over the total empire from England to Persia).
The two friends campaign eastwards where a princes falls in love with Sergius and tries to seduce him. After his rejection she too commits suicide.
After a while Sergius dies out of remorse and after a few hours Bacchus discovers his body and he too dies out of sorrow at his friend's loss.
They are immediately sanctified by the church and the archangel leads them to Heaven where they are welcomed by all saints. They also develop a very good working relationship with the Holy Trinity, but saint Paul is distrustful of them and they get involved in too many disagreements and theological arguments. The atmosphere becomes rather oppressive for them and they want to return to Earth to work for lost souls and for the general benefit of Christianity. At the same time Paradise becomes overpopulated due to the churches manic policy of ever creating more saints which God is forced to accept as He has given this right to the church. God solves the problem of overpopulation by sending saints back to Earth but only those in whose honor a church has been built on Earth. Unfortunately not such church exists as yet for Sergius and Bacchus.
They take their faith into their hands and come as a nightmare to emperor Justinian (roughly 200 years after their death) blackmailing him that if he doesn't built a church in their honor they will destroy him.
Justinian terrified builds for them a very beautiful church (its remains still stand in Constantinople), so now they are free to go and they return to Earth with God's blessings and with free hand to do as they please.
They take part in all major political events of the world and their interference and influence is generally beneficial for human kind. They are still with us and they will be forever (we should only maintain their churches in good condition so that they never leave us).

The implications of this tale are too many to mention, but as I said, this is the general outline that I intend to follow in my composition with the main aim of coming up with a libretto for an opera, so wish me good luck.

Triptych for Leaena


The "Triptych for Leaena" is about a hetaera of ancient Athens in the pre-democracy days with the same name (Greek for lioness).
The first part is from an actual letter of hers to one of her lovers which I translated from Attic into modern Greek in rhyming verse and then into English. This letter depicts her as she was in her ordinary every day life, with all the pettiness, cheekiness and glamour of a courtesan and if that was all we knew about her it would not be very much.
After the charismatic tyrant of Athens Peisistratus died in 527 BC he was succeeded by his two sons Hippias and Hipparchus who were quite oppressive as dictators.
The "underground" democratic movement had amongst its leading members the bisexual pair of Harmodius (yet another lover of Hipparchus) and Aristogeiton. This pair were also lovers of Leaena who was also part of this movement to overthrow tyranny.
These two murdered Hipparchus in 514 for personal and political reasons and Hippias went mad seeking revenge and taking very drastic measures by torturing and killing people to find out his brother's murderers.
When Leaena's turn came for "questioning" although she knew very well she did not betray the two killers and to make sure that she will not speak under torture she bit very hard into her own tongue and cut it, eventually dying from hemorrhage. Hippias never found out the two killers. The tyranny was weakened after these events and after four years (510 BC) Athenian Democracy was finally established in certainty.
Later on the state honored Leaena by erecting the status of a lioness with its tongue cut in the propylaea of Acropolis.

Implications of the tale: If the democratic movement had not finally succeeded in those crucial years the world today would be a different place, rather worse, I reckon.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

An opera sounds like just the ticket for Sergius and Bacchus.

 

[Minervous]

My thanks to AH for the challenge, which was fun and thoughtfully worked out. My own poem was based on my interest in Emily Brontë, of course, a writer I think of as undervalued, despite the prominence of her novel Wuthering Heights. Ms. Brontë's poetry is, I think, under appreciated, and part of the thrust of my poem was to, I suppose ineptly, indicate that.

Yes. Well.

Whether it worked or not is neither here nor there, I suppose. The poem I wrote was basically an exercise in meter. Fun to write. At least entertaining, I hope, to read.

My darling Tzara wishes me to say that his poem, "estlin," was inspired by his reading Susan Cheever's biography of E. E. Cummings and his desire, as he puts it: "somewhat pathological," to frame a poem about that poet in the rondeau form.

I know. He's a Nut, but I adore him.

 

[greenmountaineer]

My thanks to AH for the challenge, which was fun and thoughtfully worked out. My own poem was based on my interest in Emily Brontë, of course, a writer I think of as undervalued, despite the prominence of her novel Wuthering Heights. Ms. Brontë's poetry is, I think, under appreciated, and part of the thrust of my poem was to, I suppose ineptly, indicate that.

Yes. Well.

Whether it worked or not is neither here nor there, I suppose. The poem I wrote was basically an exercise in meter. Fun to write. At least entertaining, I hope, to read.

My darling Tzara wishes me to say that his poem, "estlin," was inspired by his reading Susan Cheever's biography of E. E. Cummings and his desire, as he puts it: "somewhat pathological," to frame a poem about that poet in the rondeau form.

I know. He's a Nut, but I adore him.

I liked this poem, Minerva. In fact, it was my favorite by the slimmest of margins over "Springtime in the Ark." That's ironic because I'm not usually a big fan of highly structured meter and rhyme. At first blush that was my inkling when I read your poem: "Oh no, here comes another one, every stanza a quatrain ending the sentence, every line iambic, ending with masculine syllables, but the narrative intrigued me enough for a second reading.

I cracked a smile at line three with its feminine ending word, "Lovers," that was, well, feminine. I'm not sure if you intended that or not, but that got me curious to start parsing the poem. I also noticed later "Catherine," which, if elided, is two syllables, not three, and feminine. In Brontë's time, I'm guessing elision would have been used to force meter as you did with "o'er."

The more I read the poem, the more I saw subtle variations, more evident in the last two stanzas where S6 spills over to S7, the use of near rhyme in "love" and "prove," and the absence of the rhyme pattern in S8.

After my fourth and final reading, the sound in my mind's ear was very different than it was after the first.