Holding poems up to the light, then beating them senseless.

[REDWAVE]

Just don't call me late for the orgy

Rewave? Was that just a typo, KissaMuff, or did you do that on purpose? I think on purpose. O well, people have done all kinds of different variants of my screen name: Redweave, Redwag, Red, Redwang, etc. I guess I'll have to live with it. And I've played around with KillerMuffin's name at times too. Anyway, I hear daughter will take over and subject me to the "third degree." To quote Hannibal Lector (my roomie's hero): "Oh, goody, goody!" Fire away, daughter, I'm ready.

 

[daughter]

He's here: REDWAVE

Daughter:Tell me about your interest in BDSM? Am I correctly seeing that influence in this piece? Why this setting, the analogy of a royal court set in a modern cafe?

RED:The first line of the poem is a deliberate echo of Eliot-- in fact, it's the first line of part 2 of "The Waste Land": "A Game of Chess." Part of what I'm doing there is making fun of the ornate and (I think) rather boring lengthy description at the beginning of "A Game of Chess," before they start talking. The suggestion of a royal court is meant to be ironic.

I do take some interest in BDSM, mainly the idea of dominance/submission and the whole psychology of that. However, I don't see this poem as having anything particularly to do with BDSM, despite the title. It's written from the perspective of an older, unattractive man who's having all this rampant sexuality paraded in front of him, knowing full well he's not going to get any himself. That's the refined torment. And I might add, it's a torment which is not totally unalloyed with pleasure. Despite the frustration, he enjoys looking at their fresh young beauty and watching their flirtations and sex-related game-playing.

Daughter: These lines don't fit well for me:

"Many with low self-esteem
In the last days before the burning"

Why this political/social snippet in an analogy that is centered around sexuality and narcissism? There's nothing that supports or introduces this concept nor is it followed up with a social statement.


RED:The two lines you mentioned actually weren't meant as social/political commentary. The point of the remark about low self-esteem is that women with low self-esteem are usually easier to seduce than ones with good self-esteem. They appreciate the attention more, are more easily flattered, manipulated, etc. The line about the last days before the burning is kind of interesting. This was influenced by a real experience.

There’s a coffeehouse here in Vegas, called Cafe Copioh, which was a hangout for young people, many of them "Goths,", and also held a weekly poetry reading. It had burned down shortly before I wrote this-- in a suspicious fire some think was set by the owner to collect the insurance-- so this was a reference to the last days of that cafe before it burned down. However, given what happened not long after I wrote this poem (i.e., 9/11), it could be interpreted now as a foreshadowing of that. 9/11 wasn't literally a "burning," but it was a spectacular and catastrophic event (like a burning), and metaphorically it set this country, and the entire world, on fire. So "the last days before the burning" could be viewed as the last days before Sept. 11. Obviously, I didn't have that in mind when I wrote the poem, but I don't mind taking credit for it now, if someone wants to read that in.

What I consider the key phrase of the poem, and really what the whole rest of the poem is building up to, is "fuckable beauty." There are many things that are beautiful: flowers, sunsets, landscapes, etc. But most of them aren't fuckable; you can't have sex with them. An attractive woman (or man, for that matter; anyone who's a potential sex partner), on the other hand, is not only beautiful, but also fuckable, which puts her in a whole special subcategory of beauty, the very best kind of beauty.

daughter: Red, some would say your political stance is pretty radical. Tell me what shaped your views and how do they affect your poetry?

RED:Glad you asked. I've always been pretty liberal, but the experience that radicalized me was the "Persian Gulf War," or First Oil War as I like to call it. (Now we're in the midst of the Second Oil War.) I was sickened and appalled by the cowardly terror bombing of Iraq. I was attending law school in L.A. at the time, and I went over to Westwood every weekend for the antiwar demonstrations there. At those demonstrations, I came into contact with several members of the Spartacist League, and started reading their paper, the Workers Vanguard. After examining their views and analyses, I became convinced they were right. I've been a revolutionary Trotskyist ever since. For me, the strongest single argument for communism is that the capitalist ruling class, in order to maintain its rule, has to stir up nationalist rivalries, leading eventually to imperialist war. It is the horror and abomination of war, which leads me to advocate worldwide socialist revolution.


daughter: We're all influenced to some degree by the era into which we were born. Tell me briefly how your formative years were affected by the times.

RED: Another excellent question, daughter. I was born in 1952, which means I grew up in the '60's. I vividly remember 1968, the turning point year. It began very hopefully with George McGovern's surprisingly strong showing in the New Hampshire primary, leading to LBJ's bowing out of the Presidential race. For a short while, it looked like the racism, militarism, and social injustice of this system were going to be peacefully and democratically reversed. Then came the twin assassinations of MLK and RFK, and instead of Bobby Kennedy becoming President, ol' Tricky Dick got in the White House instead, and the post-'60's reaction began. As an idealistic 16-year-old boy, and great believer in everything Martin and Bobby stood for, I felt like everything that meant most to me had been ripped apart, trampled upon, and then pissed on right in front of me. I fell into a deep funk and depression from which it took me many years to emerge.

daughter: Tell me about the authors have impacted your writing most.

RED: Allen Ginsberg, Walt Whitman, and William Blake are all big influences on my poetry. Although I'm a great admirer of the writings of William S. Burroughs, I'm probably more influenced by the naturalistic writers, especially Emile Zola (Germinal), Frank Norris (The Octopus & McTeague), Theodore Dreiser (Sister Carrie), Jack London (Martin Eden & The Sea Wolf), and John Steinbeck (The Grapes of Wrath and other works). I'd also like to mention that underrated and often overlooked masterpiece by Erskine Caldwell, Tobacco Road.

daughter: Tell me about one of your favorite poems. What do you like most and least about it?

RED:It's somewhat arbitrary to pick just one, of course. But if I had to pick just one, it would be "Invictus" by William Ernest Henley. I like best about it the closing two lines:

I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul

What do I like least about it? I suppose some of the rhymes are a bit cliché. That's the problem with writing rhyming poetry, today especially: all the easy rhymes have already been done-- to death.


daughter: If you were the critic, how would you define your style and skill?

RED:OK, I'll play critic here. REDWAVE's style is gritty, racy, realistic, packing the maximum punch into the minimum number of words. His poetry eschews the traditional flowery, even archaic lingo of poetry for a contemporary style of poetry that captures the flow of everyday speech and heightens it into poetic intensity. His stories at their best rip aside the curtain to reveal reality naked and bleeding, as in the defining moment when Sylvia turns the tables on Duane, who has kidnapped and sexually abused her: 'Who's the slave NOW, motherfucker?'

His skill is to reveal that which we are all aware of, but of which we are afraid to speak.


daughter: Pick two Lit poets you like. Briefly explain what you appreciate most in the artist’s
work.

You mean other than myself? I guess I'd pick WickedEve and SA Storm. (Sorry, daughter, I like your poetry too, but I rate you #3). I like WickedEve's stuff because she, too, is unafraid to tackle subjects most people shy away from, and she does a damn good job at her best. If only I could have gotten her to buy my "swollen belly"! Inside joke. Storm, I pick because of his crystalline and opaque use of language, much more sophisticated than the run of the mill Lit. poetry. (Not that it has no merit: there is a time and a place for a light-hearted playful erotic romp, or even a "down and dirty" pornographic poem.)


daughter: RED, it was grand interviewing you. Loved chatting with you.

RED: Well, daughter, you sure ask a lot of damn questions. Can I have my piece of candy now?

 

[WickedEve]

REDWAVE's Interview--Incredible!

I read Refined Torment, and then I read Red's explanation of the poem, and I had to read the poem again. The poem was so much more than I had originally thought it was. And so is Red. The line "In the last days before the burning" appealed to me (I'm probably a firebug.) and I'm glad to now know what it means.

REDWAVE, you're a fascinating man. I'm glad that daughter was the one to interview you. I don't think many of us could have done you justice. And your life has given you some interesting material to work with.

Keep up the good work, or I'll poke your swollen belly!

to REDWAVE

WICKED EE

 

[Unmasked Poet]

WickedEve, Everyone don't let him fool you!

Sure he seems nice but it is a ruse, a RED ruse. He’s an anarchist and trying to institute a “new world order”, and I’m sure I’m being tailed by his communist minions. Not since Stalin’s purge have we seen such a depraved egomaniac. I urge you to save yourselves lock up the kids and the jewelry. The redwave is coming to redistribute the wealth and make us eat borscht and drink vodka. Party now because soon we will be the USSA (Union of Socialist States of America). If you doubt me check out his website: http://burnitalldown.org
There are pictures of him with Castro, and the Chinese premier. Arm yourselves people! The REDWAVE IS COMING!

Throw down Redwave, "American Imperial Capitalism" is ready!

U.P.
Supreme leader of AIC

Relocated to a secret militia compound in the middle of Montana or is it one the Dakotas? Yeah that’s where it is.
Can someone turn up the TV? And go warm up my gas guzzling luxury car filled with the decandent over priced knick knacks. Oh and a pizza somebody order me a pizza...

 

[WickedEve]

OHHHH U.P.

You and SWEETWAVE are such silly boys. I could cuddle you both right now!

Don't you feel the ?

WCKED EVE

 

[Whispersecret]

AHA!

Red is the Russian Judge! Right? Right?

 

[REDWAVE]

UP & WE

I promise that the first thing I will do after the revolution is tear the mask off UP's face, and expose him to all the world. I just hope it won't be indecent!


WickedEve, I'll take you up on that offer of cuddling!


Thanks to daughter for doing the interview, and I enjoyed the piece of candy, too.

 

[KatPurrs]

Fascinating Interview

daughter and REDWAVE,

*smiling and curtseying to you* Excellent job!
Intriguing interview!

daughter, You obviously did your homework, girl. Your questions were awesome! I think REDWAVE enjoyed them as much as we did! It was clear this wasn't your first interview. You should do more of them!

REDWAVE, I know what you mean about getting in a funk back in the 60's. I did the same thing! I remember watching missles go down our main st. heading for Key West to aim at Cuba and I thought, "We're all gonna die!" Then the assassinations..

Anyway, RED, loved your responses. It was nice to get to know you a little better. I've enjoyed your posts and your poems. Now I'm off to check out your websites......

Kat~ One for each of you.

 

[Maid of Marvels]

daughter...

Thank you for giving us a chance to look into the esoterically inscrutable mind of the King of Kink.

Fascinating. Or is that fantasizing?

Please sir, may I have some more?

 

[daughter]

Thank you, MoM

Yes, I have done this before. My interview of fame was the Waynan Brothers for the "Scary Movie".

Who was more entertaining them or RED is toss up. Actually, RED is funnier.

Glad you enjoy it.

Peace,

daughter

 

[REDWAVE]

LOOK OUT! WickedEve is cumming!

Get your towels out, guys-- WickedEve is cumming. That's right: the one, the only, the lovely, the lascivious WickedEve is coming to a bulletin board near you. I know you shiver with antici-- pation. I will be ogling and feeling up her poem, "The Tree Bears Heavy Fruit."

Stay tuned, folks-- same butt-time, same butt-channel.

 

[REDWAVE]

The Tree Bears Heavy Fruit

I don't know about you, but the image of Eve sitting naked in front of her computer gets me hot. Now if only I had a two-way screen . . .

Anyway, here's the poem:


THE TREE BEARS HEAVY FRUIT, BY WickedEve

What do you believe
has happened to our Eve?
She's been gone for a day.
By now, she's far away.

Her every move I could see
as she went toward the tree.
I saw where innocence lies,
behind her familiar eyes.

And yes, He was there,
ready to coil in her hair.
And he could not hide
his intentions inside.

Without hesitation,
he offered temptation.
With his charming smile,
she was easy to beguile.

When she made up her mind,
I wished to be blind.
I did not want to see
what she took from that tree.

I wandered for a day in dark light,
beholding my creation called night.
But in my mind I could still see
Eve writhing naked in that dead tree.

And now that my sight is restored,
I find that her deed severed the cord.
I cannot find her anywhere,
and I've searched almost everywhere.

I shall now journey to a place most dreaded,
and pray that our Eve has not yet been wedded--
once lost, the path back it long and twisted.
I do this for you, Adam, though you never insisted.


Mull that over for a while, kiddies. I'll be back later with my take on the poem, without benefit of talking to Eve about it. Finally, the interview. Sparks will fly.

 

[REDWAVE]

Interview techniques

I don't think just sending E-mails or PM's back and forth will do it in this case, Eve. I need to meet with you in person for an "in-depth" interview, so I can probe all the depths of your psyche.


Loved your new story "Preacher Man"-- praise the Lord and pass the condoms!

 

[WickedEve]

HEATWAVE

Are you going to do this thing or not?
You just love torturing me, don't you, REDWINE?!

WICKED EE

 

[REDWAVE]

Babe in Hyperdrive

Damn, you change fast, Wicked! I can't keep up with you! I don't even know what to think of your rum soaked cuticle thingie. I guess I'll just have to stick it in my swollen belly!


I'd love to torture you, honey-- your dungeon or mine?

I'll get around to the interview eventually-- tomorrow I'll have a go at figuring out your Garden of Eden poem.

 

[KatPurrs]

ANTICIPATION

Damn REDRUM! This is ------(gee, I wonder)

Where's my whip? lol

Kat~

 

[WickedEve]

REDWEIRD

Damn, you change fast, Wicked! I can't keep up with you! I don't even know what to think of your rum soaked cuticle thingie. I guess I'll just have to stick it in my swollen belly!

I'm trying new things to keep you confused.

KatPurrs, if you find the whip, let me use it. I want to change Red's name to REDRUMP!

WICKED EE

 

[REDWAVE]

Exegesis

Yeah, yeah, promises, promises-- you always say you're gonna spank & whip me, Eve, but then you never do!


Time to get serious, and plunge into "The Tree Bears Heavy Fruit." First, congratulations to Eve on winning the gold for her Jekyll & Hyde poem, "Irony: The Heavy Element." However, in my not so humble opinion, this poem is much better.

First, on the level of mere mechanics, I have to chastise Eve severely for the one glaring typo: "the path back it [sic] long and twisted." Obviously, she meant "is" there. For a top poet like her to do such a sloppy job of proofreading, and in a poetry contest no less-- tsk, tsk. Hold out your hand for me to slap your wrist, Eve. Whack! There-- consider yourself duly punished.

The poem tells the story of the Garden of Eden myth, although the story is so well known that Eve doesn't so much tell it as allude to it here and there, and we fill in the rest. We learn Eve is innocent (well, at least at first!) in stanza 2. The "He" of stanza 3 is presumably Satan-- the Debble. Note how the speaker first says he wishes to be blind, then is apparently actually blinded.

Then we come to this remarkable stanza, the core and best part of the poem, which is positively Blakean in its simplicity of language combined with profundity of thought:

"I wandered for a day in dark light,
beholding my creation called night.
But in my mind I could still see
Eve writhing naked in that dead tree."

"Dark light" is an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms, and a very effective use of the technique here. Why is the light dark? Presumably because the speaker has been blinded by what he saw: i.e., the light is dark to him. But how is night his creation? We'll get back to that question later.
"Eve writhing naked in that dead tree" is a great line, but why is the tree dead? Perhaps not because it is dead itself, but because it brings death. In this context, the line by Byron (I think), the most cynical and nihilistic of the Romantic poets, comes to mind: "The Tree of Knowledge is not the Tree of Life."

We are told Eve's deed (discovering sexuality?) "severed the cord"-- between God and man, presumably. In the last paragraph, the identity of the speaker is revealed by implication. He says he is about to journey to a place most dreaded-- the mortal world? He hopes Eve has not yet been wedded-- to Satan? Yes, once humanity falls from grace (whatever that is), the path back IS long and twisted. The poem ends with: "I do this for you, Adam, though you never insisted." I take "Adam" as standing for humanity. The speaker is Jesus, who is taking mortal form to redeem humanity, despite humanity's seeming indifference to being redeemed.

Thus, the poem can be interpreted in an orthodox Christian way, but other interpretations, such as gnostic Christian or even "pagan" interpretations, are possible. For example, remember the line about "my creation called night." The implication is that God created evil, that evil is necessary to and a part of God's plan-- a somewhat subversive thought. Are God and the Devil really separate entities-- or just two faces of the same coin?

Anyway, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Next time, I will talk to Eve about the poem, among other things, and she can tell me if I'm full of shit.

 

[WickedEve]

typo

RED, I just took care of that typo. The correct version should be online tomorrow.
I knew I rushed that poem out too quickly!

Now when do I get to tell you that you're "full of shit?"

WE

 

[REDWAVE]

Box

Eve, check your box!
There's something in it.

 

[REDWAVE]

Stay tuned.

 

[REDWAVE]

Eve's swan song

What I thought would be a joyous occasion, with a lot of good-humored banter back and forth, has turned out to be a rather somber one. Here's my interview with WickedEve, her "swan song."

REDWAVE: I know you've read my interpretation of "The Tree Bears Heavy Fruit." Do you agree or disagree?
WickedEve: You are correct that the "He" in stanza 3 is the Hot Guy himself! lol And of course the story teller is God. As for the dead tree, I pictured her taking a bite of more than just the forbidden fruit. And that great sin killed the tree, where she was being very, very wicked. It also symbolized her eventual death, since that was her price for knowledge and sin. The severed cord: I feel that after that deed that the cord
between God and Eve/mankind was severed. There could never again be that connection between them. They were no longer his innocent children. His journey to the place most dreaded was Hell. He had to see if it was too late to bring Eve back to him. And Adam in the poem was Adam. I was picturing Adam as not really caring about Eve. That's why she was so easily tempted. But "my God" in the poem seemed to be more... interested. And the night he beheld was the darkness he was seeing for the first time. Everything until then had been light and good.

REDWAVE: You've described yourself as being sexually submissive. What does that mean to you, and how does it affect your writing?
WickedEve: I think everything in my life affects my writing. Submission is just part of it. Of course, my D/s relationship gives me interesting material to work with when I write.

REDWAVE: There's also a strong element of religion in your writing. How do you reconcile your sultry sensuality with that, or do you?
WickedEve: I don't think there is anything to reconcile. At least, not for me. I was exposed to a lot of "extreme" religion growing up. And my sultry sensuality seems to come naturally. So both
elements come out in my poetry.

REDWAVE: What writers (if any) have influenced you the most?
WickedEve: I read less now than I once did. I always enjoyed reading Shakespeare, Chaucer, Greek mythology, and classic poetry when I was younger.

REDWAVE: What would you say are your greatest strengths and weaknesses as a writer?
WickedEve: Ignorance is one weakness. I'm very aware of how much more I need to learn. I'm ignorant of many aspects of writing. When it comes to this poetry board, and the posts on the mechanics of writing good poetry, I spend a lot of time online researching what I just read. Of course, I've learned. My strength would be that I am able to interestingly express my imagination and my reality. I believe I have talent. I just
need to hone it.

REDWAVE: What are you trying to accomplish as a writer?
WickedEve: I like to entertain, and I write for the pleasure of it. At the moment, I'm not sure where my writing is taking me. I am hoping for more, and I believe I am capable of more. My next
step is to open my own poetry site, and to join some other sites that are more poetry oriented.

REDWAVE: Name two other poets at Literotica whose work you like, and briefly explain why.
WickedEve: daughter: She's a bundle of talent. Her poetry is just beautiful. She can describe something so simple and make it sound like the most exquisite thing in the world.
and... all literotica poets: every poet here has something special to share. I've learned from them all, and I've found something in everyone's poetry to enjoy.

REDWAVE: Let's get back to the submission thing. You say you're submissive, but you also come across as a strong, assertive, and intelligent person. Are you one of those pushy little subs
who really has her "master" wrapped around her finger?
WickedEve: I've tried but couldn't, so that's why he's still my Master. He's always one step ahead of me. Which isn't easy! But he's very intelligent. He says I'm high maintenance and that I cause him an abundance of work as a Master. But he's always up for the job. He has to be. He knows that if he shows any weakness, I'll eat him alive.

Farewell, Eve. We'll miss you.

 

[daughter]

Enjoyed the interview

Thanks, RED.

I'm glad we got an inside view before Eve left. I roam the net a bit so we'll hook up.

Peace,

daughter

 

[KatPurrs]

Who'll be the next in line...

Thanks REDWAVE. Great questions, very insightful! I'm especially glad you asked WE about the submissive part of her life. Her last sentence was a corker, true to her color all the way! We're going to miss that evil woman!

Kat~

 

[REDWAVE]

Drat that hussy!

Well, it seems like this thread has been dumped in my lap. Thanks a lot, Kat Purrs, you wanton hussy, you-- you owe me for this one. At least a blow job!


Anyway, that means I'm also stuck with the next interview. So I'll pick a fine poet who's been around Lit. a long time, WriterDom. (You know there'll be one or two questions about politics!) Then it will pass on to him to pick the next interview subject, and so on.

I'll get you for this, you evil woman, KP!