Hostility or Fear?

[EJFan]

My hubby's first thought was that it made no sense--until I told him who made the comment. Now he's trying to be loyal and say that it probably depends on context.
However, he and I can be listening at the same time and hear completely different things.

ok... the context was that it was spoken by a guy addicted to hillbilly heroin.

 

[Norajane]

Are Women Feminizing Men?

I hope you won't hold it against me , but my hubby is a huge Rush Limbaugh fan, which means that I've spent more time than I'd prefer listening to his program. The things one does for love!

One afternoon, the "feminization of men" was the topic of the hour. I don't even remember the specifics now, but I was loudly disagreeing with Rush--and then this woman called in. She was bitching about how upset she was that her sons allowed their wives to be entirely too bossy and in control.

At that point, I pretty much lost it and started screaming at the radio.

My hubby said, "Will you get a grip?!"

I said, "Just listen to her!" Then I left the room because I knew I was taking things entirely too seriously.

A few minutes later, my hubby turned off the radio and said, "You were right. That woman was a nut job."

That concept is so insulting to men and women. It rests on the presumption that men will do anything to get laid, and that women will use sex to manipulate men into being who they want them to be, i.e., a "feminized man" who communicates and expresses his feelings.

I'd have been screaming at the radio, too!

 

[Norajane]

all i can say is this:

i listed to rush limbaugh once... he said something to the effect that the reason there was so much child abuse in the US was because abortion is too accessible.

i guess there's a point in there somewhere but i don't speak republican and therefore can't figure out what it is.

how about something like:

The ease of getting an abortion cheapens the value of human life in society, or reflects how little we value life; therefore, there's more child abuse because children's lives aren't valued so it doesn't seem like an awful thing to do.

(I'm working off the "abortion is murder of an unborn child" message).

 

[Eilan]

ok... the context was that it was spoken by a guy addicted to hillbilly heroin.

LOL!

In these here hillbilly parts, meth is the new Oxy.

 

[human_male]

I think you've summed it all up in your posts here, Norajane.

Personally, I sometimes feel bitter toward women, but I put that down to the fact that none of them pay any attention to me and I have a penis like EJFan's AV.

 

[phoenix1224]

That concept is so insulting to men and women. It rests on the presumption that men will do anything to get laid, and that women will use sex to manipulate men into being who they want them to be, i.e., a "feminized man" who communicates and expresses his feelings.

You mean, that's NOT the way things are?

 

[TBKahuna123]

how about something like:

The ease of getting an abortion cheapens the value of human life in society, or reflects how little we value life; therefore, there's more child abuse because children's lives aren't valued so it doesn't seem like an awful thing to do.

(I'm working off the "abortion is murder of an unborn child" message).

I don't know if that puts it in context, but I can follow the logic there. While I may agree that abortion is too accessible and wrong, I'm not sure you can draw a connection between that and child abuse. Child abuse stems from a lot of other issues that have nothing to do with value of human life, I think.

As for this article, As much as I'd like to say it's crazy, I think in many cases it's not far off. I'm unique amongst my friends in that my wife rarely nags me about anything, she's supportive of every crazy thing I do and she has no restrictions on what I do or who I see. Hell I'm the only guy I know who's wife got pissed at him because he went ot a strip club and didn't get a lap dance! The only restriction she's ever put on me is a no touch/no fuck clause for going to a strip club.

Not so with my other friends. All their wives are very restrictive and very jealous of their time. They nag them all the time and generally treat them in a way I find very disrespectful and belittling. What's crazy is that it's not 1 or 2, it's ALL of my friends, and I can't figure out why. I know women aren't all like that, but it seems to be a stereotype that is self perpetuating. Could it be another of these vicious circles? The same can be said of men though, and their stereotypes.

I don't know, I just count myself lucky because my wife and I have a great understanding. My biggest problem is getting her to actually tell me when there is something she doesn't want me to do. She's almost too cool about things. I mean come on, how many women would let their 30 year old husband start playing hockey without first undergoing a psychiatric evaluation and requiring power of attorney?

 

[Norajane]

You mean, that's NOT the way things are?

 

[Norajane]

I mean come on, how many women would let their 30 year old husband start playing hockey without first undergoing a psychiatric evaluation and requiring power of attorney?

My SO, who will be 40 next month, plays football in fall, and then switches to softball in the spring/summer. I was the one who told him to keep playing when he was considering quitting softball cause he's too old and the injuries take longer than a week to heal for the next game.

I think he'd be miserable not playing something. Maybe I should encourage the taking up of golf?

 

[midwestyankee]

<snip>

I think he'd be miserable not playing something. Maybe I should encourage the taking up of golf?

Only if he is very, very good at laughing at himself.

 

[EJFan]

I think he'd be miserable not playing something. Maybe I should encourage the taking up of golf?

i just read that the word "golf" was originally an abbreviation for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden

 

[Norajane]

i just read that the word "golf" was originally an abbreviation for Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden

They just didn't want the ladies laughing at their strokes or their golf pants.

 

[SweetErika]

Speaking of feminization of men, are you guys familiar with this Litster's pro-male posts?

 

[Eilan]

Speaking of feminization of men, are you guys familiar with this Litster's pro-male posts?

Damn, you beat me to it!

Like this one?

 

[EJFan]

Speaking of feminization of men, are you guys familiar with this Litster's pro-male posts?

not i.

in his profile he speaks of "men's rights" which i wholly support. i'm not suggesting that demeaning women is appropriate but i can appreciate a supporter of men's rights as much as i can a supporter of women's rights.

sociolgoically speaking i think that men are less inclined to unite for the "male cause" the way women do for their issues. to have someone initiate that... errr... initiative... is fine by me. we tend to take things more as they come as opposed to women who'll create a forum or union to push for their own interests. things like breast cancer, abortion rights, fertility rights, child support, et al are all great causes. men rarely seek out resources to fight testicular cancer, prostate cancer, parental rights, "reverse" spousal abuse, and all the crap we have to contend with.

of course, i fall in with the masses with my "badges? we don't need no stinkin' badges" type of mentality. i detest interest groups. again, however, i think it's great that someone's presenting an opposing view.

 

[Eilan]

men rarely seek out resources to fight testicular cancer, prostate cancer, parental rights, "reverse" spousal abuse, and all the crap we have to contend with.

How about erectile dysfunction? There could be a "Million Limp-Dick March."

The issue that I have with this particular poster is the same issue that I'd have with a penis-hating, bra-burning radical feminist. Why not focus on the areas in which there's common ground instead of driving both sides farther apart with hostile rhetoric? The problem with seeing issues in terms of black-white is that there are lots of shades of gray that get discounted in the process.

I've posted about this elsewhere, but a lot of women are reluctant to identify themselves with feminism because of the negative connotations associated with it. My view of feminism would get me kicked out of NOW.

 

[EJFan]

How about erectile dysfunction? There could be a "Million Limp-Dick March."

LMAO!

i agree with what you say about radical feminists... nothing radical is ever functional to the real world. as long as there are radical feminists, i think there need to be radical masochists to balance everything out.

(spoonerism intentional)

 

[TBKahuna123]

Speaking of feminization of men, are you guys familiar with this Litster's pro-male posts?

This is the problem, I agree wiht about half of what guys like this say. I mean there are some double standards that torque my twinkie. For example, the lady who protested Augusta because it was a mens only club. Why is that unfair, yet I can't get a membership at the local Curves health club? Can you imagine if there was a men's only fitness gym?

On a serious note though, this mens' rights as applied to abortion is a serious issue. I have a very good friend who's girlfriend had an abortion without telling him she was pregnant. When he found out he was devestated because he would have taken full responsibility for that child on his own. As far as he was concerned she had killed his child, and that still haunts him to this day. This same friend also got screwed by paternity laws a few years later. He got married and adopted the woman's little boy. Let me say up front that this guy is an amazing father. At her request he sold his car, packed up his stuff and moved across the country so he could take care of the kid so she could join the military. However, after not even a year of marriage this woman started screwing around on him and filed for divorce. So here he is, no car, no job, nothing because he had given everything up to be Mr. Mom, and now even the kid is being taken away from him. So she packs up the kid and moves to EUROPE!!!!! So they go to court. The Decision? No you have no parental rights to stop her from leaving the country or to demand visitation with your adopted son because you aren't the birth father. You do however have to pay $1500 a month in child support, because you adopted the child. WTF?

Now that is a double standard that just pissed me off. Well eventually he fought enough that they got the child support overturned, but only after he new husband(now divorced I believe ) adopted the kid himself. Still it was hard for my friend to let go, because he had put everything he was into becoming this boy's father, only to have it all ripped away from him.

I often joke that I'm part of the last great oppressed majority in the world, the white male heterosexual, but in many ways it's true. There are a lot of injustices in this world and we are subject to a few of them. I think the biggest factor though is that it's only a small portion of us guys that are affected by these injustices, where as other groups may experience them on a wider basis. Still I think it's just enough to breed some hostility and resentment.

Who knows, all in all I think we got it pretty good and you certainly won't hear me complaining to loudly. Of course, like I've said before though, I've lead a charmed life, so maybe sometimes my view of the world is a tad to the rosey side.

 

[Eilan]

radical masochists

 

[EJFan]

TBK: torque your twinkie?

is there a diagram that goes with this... i might want to try it.

well... not YOUR twinkie, but my own. your twinkie gets enough abuse. you have that hockey cock syndrome goin' on.

 

[TBKahuna123]

How about erectile dysfunction? There could be a "Million Limp-Dick March."

The issue that I have with this particular poster is the same issue that I'd have with a penis-hating, bra-burning radical feminist. Why not focus on the areas in which there's common ground instead of driving both sides farther apart with hostile rhetoric? The problem with seeing issues in terms of black-white is that there are lots of shades of gray that get discounted in the process.

I've posted about this elsewhere, but a lot of women are reluctant to identify themselves with feminism because of the negative connotations associated with it. My view of feminism would get me kicked out of NOW.

Feminazis as my father loves to call them.

Reminds me of an old George Carlin joke where he talks about how feminists piss him off. "I just want to run into one of these meetings nad say Hey, which one of you cupcakes would like to come home, cook me a nice meal and give me a blow job?"

As for penis-hating, it's time we did take a stand. No more penile repression, no more making us feel bad because our dicks arent' big enough! Let's all burn our jock straps in protest.

just make sure you wash em first guys. Phew, could you imagine the smell of a million burning, nasty jock straps?

 

[EJFan]

Reminds me of an old George Carlin joke where he talks about how feminists piss him off. "I just want to run into one of these meetings nad say Hey, which one of you cupcakes would like to come home, cook me a nice meal and give me a blow job?"

remember the bit where he said, "did ya ever notice that most of the women who are against abortion are women you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place man?"

 

[TBKahuna123]

you have that hockey cock syndrome goin' on.

Last weekend I went out and played hockey. I commented it was the first time I've played when at least one person hasn't hit me in the nuts. That's when I looked down into my bag and realized that I had forgotten to put on my cup!!!!!

Now, tell me I don't ahve a guardian angel?

 

[Eilan]

Why is that unfair, yet I can't get a membership at the local Curves health club? Can you imagine if there was a men's only fitness gym?

Women's health clubs are necessary to keep those of us who take fitness seriously from being hit on while we're trying to bench press.

But seriously. . .

I think there's a lot of bias against fathers with it comes to legal issues. It's unfair of a man to be denied custody of his child when the mother is unfit just because the courts often view women as better parents. It's unfair to expect a man to pay out the ass in child support if he's denied visitation (assuming, of course, that there's no abuse or anything involved), particularly if he wants to take an active role in his child's life. In that respect, the courts are dropping the ball--big time.

If you checked out the thread that I linked in one of my earlier posts, you'll see that some of these Father's Rights Advocates are trying to take things too far. They want men to be able to give up any legal/financial ties to a child if it was unplanned/unwanted.

However, because the woman's the one who has assume the risks of pregnancy and childbirth, she's going to have more of a say as to whether or not she terminates her pregnancy or allows it to continue. Her right to control her body trumps any claim that the father might have.

Where do you draw the line? Could a man force his partner to have an abortion if he didn't want to support the child? Conversely, could a husband force his wife to be pregnant and barefoot, essentially a breeder?

NCM's idea might have had some merit if they'd picked a better poster child for their cause. Matt Dubay, the young man who has filed a lawsuit in an effort to allow men a legal right to decline parenthood absolutely (it's been called Roe v. Wade for men) is a horrible poster child for men's/father's rights.

According to Dubay, he told his ex-gf that he didn't want to have a child with her. She told him that, because of a medical issue, she couldn't get pregnant. Lo and behold, she ended up pregnant, and now she's seeking (understandably, IMO) child support for their daughter. It would seem that he's looking to get out of paying $500 a month child support because he doesn't believe that he should pay support for a child that he didn't want to begin with.

If she intended to trap him by getting pregnant, then she did a pretty shitty thing, and I don't condone that at all. But what if she honestly believed that she couldn't get pregnant? If Matt Dubay felt that strongly about not fathering a child with this woman, then why wasn't he doing his part to make sure that she didn't get pregnant? Maybe he used a condom, and it failed. I don't know. Maybe he should choose his partners more wisely.

It's the responsibility of both men and women to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Sometimes, despite one's best efforts, things happen. Like I said in the other thread, the child ends up losing in cases like this. And that's sad.

 

[Norajane]

It's the responsibility of both men and women to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Sometimes, despite one's best efforts, things happen. Like I said in the other thread, the child ends up losing in cases like this. And that's sad.

That's kinda what torques MY twinkie about these debates - having sex creates babies, dammit, and anyone who has sex needs to understand that means them!!!

It's like people are soooo surprised when someone gets pregnant, like they've never considered that might happen. You have sex, you have to accept the risk. If you don't like the risk and potential consequences, keep your pants on or take responsibility for your own birth control.

Why is that so hard for people to figure out?